Squatting: high bar v low bar

Dtp1979

Someone spoke recently about it here. I've never squatted low bar. What are the main differences, advantages/disadvantages, what do you guys/girls use when squatting.

MightyMandarin

Low bar involves more posterior chain, less upright position and usually more difficult to go below parallel.

Typically low bar will allow to lift more weight than high bar but there's WR holders in powerlifting who are high-bar squatters.

It's also worth noting that there are varying degrees of high and low bar, it's not just one or the other, as people place the bar at all sorts of heights from on the traps to almost half way down their back.

Personally, unless you train purely for powerlifting, just do what feels comfortable. In my opinion though one should always try and keep as upright as possible when squatting, and try to avoid good-morning it.

Alf Veedersane

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Personally, unless you train purely for powerlifting, just do what feels comfortable. In my opinion though one should always try and keep as upright as possible when squatting, and try to avoid good-morning it.

Difficult to stay too upright when you have longer femurs though.

But whatever is comfortable, as said above. Low bar should help you move more weight but plenty of examples of high bar squatters. John Haack, for example, set the world record at last year's IPF worlds with 298kg. He's done north of 310 in training as well.

Try whichever one you don't do. See how it feels. There's more than one way to squat a cat.

Alf Veedersane

Needless to say, Greg Nuckols has a good breakdown on all things high and low bar.

http://www.strongerbyscience.com/high-bar-and-low-bar-squatting-2-0/

(Preferred 'strengtheory' )

Nate--IRL--

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Try whichever one you don't do. See how it feels. There's more than one way to squat a cat.

Have to agree with this, I only "Discovered" low bar squatting due to a Bent bar rolling off my shoulders. Haven't looked back since.

But, up until that point high bar was the only way that felt safe, now it is the opposite. I feel much more stable overall with the bar in a low position. However on the initial set-up low bar still feels wrong, until I'm actually carrying the load.

Nate

MightyMandarin

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Difficult to stay too upright when you have longer femurs though.

There's validity to that for sure, but I remember a guy posted this over at r/weightlifting:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPuzYsEjoBy/

Leverages will obviously mean it'll always be hard for long-femured folks to hit deep, upright positions, but if you mobilise as best as you can you can still do alright. This guy's ankle mobility is ridiculous though.

Alf Veedersane

MightyMandarin wrote: »

There's validity to that for sure, but I remember a guy posted this over at r/weightlifting:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPuzYsEjoBy/

Leverages will obviously mean it'll always be hard for long-femured folks to hit deep, upright positions, but if you mobilise as best as you can you can still do alright. This guy's ankle mobility is ridiculous though.

I've pretty good ankle mobility and work on hip mobility daily and I just cant get that upright in a squat. But I'm keeping the bar over midfoot so it's not a problem, per se.

In down time at the end of a program and before the start of a new program I'll switch to high bar for a bit. It feels so different bit in reality there's probably only 2-3" in the difference in placement on my back.

MightyMandarin

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I've pretty good ankle mobility and work on hip mobility daily and I just cant get that upright in a squat. But I'm keeping the bar over midfoot so it's not a problem, per se.

In down time at the end of a program and before the start of a new program I'll switch to high bar for a bit. It feels so different bit in reality there's probably only 2-3" in the difference in placement on my back.

To be honest I find it much easier to get really upright in front squats so unless you're comparing like with like I wouldn't worry.

I've seen the most flexible of weightlifters bend forward considerably doing back squats. Not everyone can sit straight up like Lu.

Dtp1979

Is there a lot of added pressure on the lower back leaning forward though?

MightyMandarin

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Is there a lot of added pressure on the lower back leaning forward though?

Well the more pitched forward the more load goes onto the lower back for sure.

As long as you remain in lumbar flexion and the lower back doesn't round I wouldn't worry though.

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Is there a lot of added pressure on the lower back leaning forward though?

I only notice it on higher rep stuff when I get a bit of a pump but I don't ever think I ever felt like my lower back was going to give way. Even after I minced my lower back a couple of years ago.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

As long as you remain in lumbar flexion and the lower back doesn't round I wouldn't worry though.

The lower back rounding is lumbar flexion.

slicus ricus

I would say your training goals would play a factor in which you do as well. I am open to correction here but my understanding is that high bar squatting more effectively recruits the quads and hamstring muscles due to the fact that you move down and up in a more upright position. Therefore, if your focus is on getting developing your leg muscles, high bar squats would be the better option.

^^^*Just to be clear, I am not saying that you cannot develop your leg muscles doing low bar squats

As mentioned above, in theory it would be easier to shift bigger weights with low bar squatting. It seems to be most popular with powerlifters where the training goals would be to lift as heavy as possible whilst ensuring to break parallel for a successful lift.

I personally go for high bar squatting these days, having previously done low bar. I find it engages my leg muscles more and has less of a strain on my hips (both flexors and extensors) and on my wrists. It suits my training goals where I am not so much focused on how heavy I lift (other than it being an indicator of muscle strength gains) but more on exhausting my leg muscles during the session to stimulate growth through recovery.

Alf Veedersane

Squats don't really recruit hamstrings all that much, fwiw.

LuckyLloyd

Barring sports specific or competitive need, I've always thought High Bar squatting plus conventional Deadlifting is probably the most optimal combination for the average trainee. The combination of a more quad dominant squat with Deadlift makes sense in terms of balance; and the greater mobility challenges are likely a positive - as we want to force the average human to improve their mobility as a prerequisite to getting stronger.

But that's ultimately an average view assuming an average context. As always, the specific goals / history / physiology / impediments / preferences of the trainee matter most. It might be right to choose one over the other for no other reason than it's more comfortable for you.

slicus ricus

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Squats don't really recruit hamstrings all that much, fwiw.

Yes, you are right, they don't really to be fair. Certainly not the dominant group anyway.

I have noticed that the hams play more of a function the deeper I get in the squat, particularly with the knee angle at that depth. I find it much easier to squat deeper at high bar, hence the feeling that the hamstrings are being recruited more and taking a greater load. That was more what I was getting at.

Mr. CooL ICE

My rule of thumb is that the squat is for quads and glutes. How much of each just depends on what way you squat.

I never felt the hams when doing HB squats. In my very short time doing LB squats, I really feel the hams stretch at the bottom, but don't feel like they're doing much else.

Dtp1979

I tried low bar squatting. I must have been doing something wrong. Does it require a lot of flexibility in the arms to hold the weight that bit lower down?

Mr. CooL ICE

Perhaps some shoulder mobility is necessary. I found I needed to shove my delts as far back as possible to create a shelf for the bar. Only shoving them back 90 % wasn't enough and gave me achey elbows the other day.

Remember that your hands are only there to keep the bar in position. The bar should be resting on your delts. If your hands are holding the weight of the bar, then you're doing something wrong.

For HB, I had my hands at one hand width from the inside knurl, but for LB I needed to widen my grip to pinkies were on the ring to take the weight off my hands.

Dtp1979

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Perhaps some shoulder mobility is necessary. I found I needed to shove my delts as far back as possible to create a shelf for the bar. Only shoving them back 90 % wasn't enough and gave me achey elbows the other day.

Remember that your hands are only there to keep the bar in position. The bar should be resting on your delts. If your hands are holding the weight of the bar, then you're doing something wrong.

For HB, I had my hands at one hand width from the inside knurl, but for LB I needed to widen my grip to pinkies were on the ring to take the weight off my hands.

Yes I wouldn't actually carry the weight with my hands. The wider grip makes it easier but if I go too wide I'd be afraid of catching my little finger when re racking

Nate--IRL--

With the low bar I have to use wrist wraps to prevent my hands getting bent back too far. My hands are open on the bar, I can't close them and have the bar where I want it. I find it it is not necessary to have then closed.

It absolutely does not help that I do my chest the day before. It takes me a few mins of stretching my chest / shoulders before I can squat.

I have damaged my shoulder before due to bad form/ not paying attention with squatting with this technique.

Nate

I do a lot of shoulder dislocates as warm ups for these and if i had to pick only one warm up it would be those
Band pull aparts are good also but i dont do them
Also wrist wraps
Elbows locked tight and narrow behind ya

Brian?

bluewolf wrote: »

I do a lot of shoulder dislocates as warm ups for these and if i had to pick only one warm up it would be those
Band pull aparts are good also but i dont do them
Also wrist wraps
Elbows locked tight and narrow behind ya

This really. I've only ever squatted low bar and a good shoulder warm up really helps.

It's very important to to grip the bar too tightly, just hold it in place.

deadlybuzzman

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I tried low bar squatting. I must have been doing something wrong. Does it require a lot of flexibility in the arms to hold the weight that bit lower down?

Use a thumbkess grip. I had an issue with elbow pain when gripping the bar and Hanley had a post on here about going thumbless which worked a treat and I've done it ever since

Brian?

Tried some high bar squats today. Felt completely wrong.

Got pinned under the bar on my 4th set for a few seconds. Still not sure how I got out of the hole.

Mellor

Brian? wrote: »

Tried some high bar squats today. Felt completely wrong.

Got pinned under the bar on my 4th set for a few seconds. Still not sure how I got out of the hole.

I low bar squatted for a low time. I've got decent mobility and found when moving to high bar I didn't have the same upper back tightness, and also that the tension in the hole was way less.

My flexibility allowed me to be comfortable get lots of extra depth, but this sometimes translated to a huge mechanical disadvantage meant I got pinned down there.

Brian?

Mellor wrote: »

I low bar squatted for a low time. I've got decent mobility and found when moving to high bar I didn't have the same upper back tightness, and also that the tension in the hole was way less.

My flexibility allowed me to be comfortable get lots of extra depth, but this sometimes translated to a huge mechanical disadvantage meant I got pinned down there.

I don't have decent mobility. It's not terrible but I need to work on it. Maybe that's why it felt so wrong.

Yesterday was the first time in ages I squatted in any serious way. I haven't been lifting much and sticking to unilateral work when I do. My hams and gluteus don't work today.

LuckyLloyd

Get a kettlebell and goblet squat a little bit while working through stuff like the below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6lJcYh-Ak

I personally see a huge benefit in high bar squatting exactly because it exposes mobility limitations a bit more. You're not obliged to improve same of course, but you'd gain a massive amount if you tackled it head on.

will56

I'm using High bar for most of my warm up sets and then switch to low bar for main work sets.

Can't seem to get the same amount of tightness/stability to go heavy on the high bar, I just feel more comfortable low barring.

Having said that I find that doing warm ups along with lower weight+high rep sets high bar, has improved my low bar squat and made it less good-morningy if that makes sense ?

Alf Veedersane

will56 wrote: »

I'm using High bar for most of my warm up sets and then switch to low bar for main work sets.

Can't seem to get the same amount of tightness/stability to go heavy on the high bar, I just feel more comfortable low barring.

Having said that I find that doing warm ups along with lower weight+high rep sets high bar, has improved my low bar squat and made it less good-morningy if that makes sense ?

High bar will a bit more focussed on the quads. Stronger quads, less good morningy.

Brian?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

will56 wrote: »

I'm using High bar for most of my warm up sets and then switch to low bar for main work sets.

Can't seem to get the same amount of tightness/stability to go heavy on the high bar, I just feel more comfortable low barring.

Having said that I find that doing warm ups along with lower weight+high rep sets high bar, has improved my low bar squat and made it less good-morningy if that makes sense ?

High bar will a bit more focussed on the quads. Stronger quads, less good morningy.

It's also caused by lifting to the wrong mental cues IMO. If you think about driving your arse up it won't happen. Sometimes I think it's detrimental to think too much about the upper body when you're squatting. Upper body static, hip drive and you're done.

BadBannana

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Barring sports specific or competitive need, I've always thought High Bar squatting plus conventional Deadlifting is probably the most optimal combination for the average trainee. The combination of a more quad dominant squat with Deadlift makes sense in terms of balance; and the greater mobility challenges are likely a positive - as we want to force the average human to improve their mobility as a prerequisite to getting stronger.

That's what I think too. Alan Thrall recently did a video where he said you should only squat low bar and your quads will "catch up". I feel like the Starting Strength crowd is a little too zealous in their "my way or the high way" approach

Hero1000

Gotta second low bar squats for tall folk with poor bip flexion.

As above I just happened upon them somewhat by accident also.
But then researched them and found my development improvement four fold using the low bar position.

The real key for me was/is understanding the posture and position of the upper back dictates the overall posture.
So keeping the scapula's nice and pinched as with all compound exercises ensures my overall posture is adjusted for maximum power and correct and safe development.

It was when I learned to apply the correct upper back posture to squats (i.e. not using a foam pad on the bar but resting the bar on the erected muscles from the pinched scapula's) that my form/posture/development really improved.

Quite life changing - believe it or no.
Specifically because my legs were sorely in need of development.
I also used that application to incorporate romanian deadlifts.
And improved my regular deadlift form - albeit through slight elevation from the standard height - a "surplus" deadlft if you will.
Ignoring those naggers that insist on improving ankle mobility as being key - despite the fact that their body type is completely different and those in all likelihood - can relate not at all.

Hero1000

Gotta second low bar squats for tall folk with poor hip flexion.

As above I just happened upon them somewhat by accident also.
But then researched them and found my development improvement four fold using the low bar position.

The real key for me was/is understanding the posture and position of the upper back dictates the overall posture.
So keeping the scapula's nice and pinched as with all compound exercises ensures my overall posture is adjusted for maximum power and correct and safe development.

It was when I learned to apply the correct upper back posture to squats (i.e. not using a foam pad on the bar but resting the bar on the erected muscles from the pinched scapula's) that my form/posture/development really improved.

Quite life changing - believe it or no.
Specifically because my legs were sorely in need of development.
I also used that application to incorporate romanian deadlifts.
And improved my regular deadlift form - albeit through slight elevation from the standard height - a "surplus" deadlft if you will.
Ignoring those naggers that insist on improving ankle mobility as being key - despite the fact that their body type is completely different and thus in all likelihood - can relate not at all.