3FE Coffee

maxwell smart

I had some visitors over to Dublin and as one of them is a coffee nut I decided to bring them to the new 3FE place near the Burlington (or whatever it's called this week).

I have to say that the espresso I got (and this was the general consensus) was completely undrinkable. I've never had anything as bitter in my life, a blend of (I'm approximating here) 40% Red Burbon, 40% Guatemalan and something else.

I don't get it, are we now at a stage where the only acceptable coffee you can buy in a 'third wave' coffee shop has to taste like this?
Is coffee in these places getting to the level of not being accessible to the general public's taste buds!!

I was very disappointed.

The shop itself looks great:D

all the questions

I had the exact same experience, I brought two friends who were visiting dublin, both very much into coffee and wanted to visit 3fe.

We had a few coffees there, the aeropress was fantastic, we all loved it, but we all agreed the espresso was undrinkable, way toof sour.

We are all in our 40's so maybe we are too old school! I am a fan of 3rd wave coffee but not as an espresso.

longshanks

Third wave coffee?

alastair

longshanks wrote: »

Third wave coffee?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_wave_of_coffee

It's undeniably cringey, but a real thing nonetheless.

uck51js9zml2yt

Was in 3fe's main store once....I just didn't get the hype around them. Coffee was mediocre at best

maxwell smart

alastair wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_wave_of_coffee

It's undeniably cringey, but a real thing nonetheless.

Or an easier way to identify it:
1. Beard and topknot
2. Tattoos
3. Large Black conical objects inserted into earlobe
4. Sandels (optional in present climate)
5. Incredibly slow service
6. Really acidic espresso - usually better in a milk based coffee

PPC

Did you complain/give feedback?

alastair

PPC wrote: »

Did you complain/give feedback?

This.

3FE are expensive, but they're clear that if you don't like what you've been given, they'll replace with something you do.

RGDATA!

shame if you didn't tell them because they'd most likely have given you something else. Whatever ever else you say about them their customer service is good. Personally, I've never had a bad or mediocre coffee there, and I'd credit them with getting me a lot more interested in coffee and changing my mind about what espresso could be back when they opened first.

alec76

maxwell smart wrote: »

Or an easier way to identify it:

6. Really acidic espresso - usually better in a milk based coffee

I presume , you prefer classic Italian espresso i.e dark roast with no fruity/floral taste whatsoever?
You could get this in 90% local coffee shops , what brought you to 3FE ?

uck51js9zml2yt

never knew about their exchange policy but not been back in the locale so no reason to go in.

maxwell smart

alec76 wrote: »

I presume , you prefer classic Italian espresso i.e dark roast with no fruity/floral taste whatsoever?
You could get this in 90% local coffee shops , what brought you to 3FE ?

My colleagues were over from Europe and had googled 'top coffee cafe in Dublin' or similar so asked to go there.

We would all prefer something that is much smoother on the pallet. Two of the guys know coffee and were very surprised at the bitterness.

I didn't know about their exchange policy (thanks for the heads up) but one of the guys did speak to the guy behind the counter about the coffee. I wasn't listening to the conversation. We were also pushed for time so needed to move on

J_E

I just couldn't go to a place that charges 3.50 regularly, for espresso.

maxwell smart

J_E wrote: »

I just couldn't go to a place that charges 3.50 regularly, for espresso.

That was also a bit of a surprise for me, €14 for 4 espresso! When the cost per cup can't be more than 25cent (okay maybe at max 50cent with costs)

adrian522

The cost per cup is significantly higher than that I'd imagine. It's not like they are using ultra cheap coffee beans there.

To add my 2 cents, I've never been disappointed by a coffee in 3FE but I admit I haven't been in there in a while. I do buy their beans fairly regularly and they are always very good.

All My Stars Aligned

As 3FE roast their on beans so charging 3.50 for an espresso is scandals IMO. If anything as a roaster and cafe they are in a position to sell their coffee for less then other specialty coffee shops who are buying in their beans.

That said, if people are willing to pay that much then why not.

Again, only my opinion but I would consider 3F£ on the lower tier of specialty coffee in Dublin. Vice, Proper Order, Meat Me In the Morning, Roasted Brown, Joes are only a few of those serving better coffee.

adrian522

Well they still have to buy in their beans and roast them, which goes into the overall cost, as does rent, wages, equipment and everything else. I'd say €0.25 is a gross under estimation of the cost per cup but I've no idea really.

I'd say you get what you pay for in many instances. I'd rather pay €3 or whatever they charge for a good espresso than €2.50 for the terrible stuff you get in most places.

A lot the places you mention above are very good but won't be much cheaper than 3FE are. Maybe slightly but a fairly small difference.

All My Stars Aligned

adrian522 wrote: »

Well they still have to buy in their beans and roast them, which goes into the overall cost, as does rent, wages, equipment and everything else. I'd say €0.25 is a gross under estimation of the cost per cup but I've no idea really.

I'd say you get what you pay for in many instances. I'd rather pay €3 or whatever they charge for a good espresso than €2.50 for the terrible stuff you get in most places.

A lot the places you mention above are very good but won't be much cheaper than 3FE are. Maybe slightly but a fairly small difference.

Just off the top of my head I know that three of them charge 2.50 for excellent espresso, this after paying considerably more themselves for the beans. That a massive price difference.

'third wave' coffee is what happens when Americans get their hands on things they don't understand. See also: insanely hoppy craft beer.

adrian522

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

Just off the top of my head I know that three of them charge 2.50 for excellent espresso, this after paying considerably more themselves for the beans. That a massive price difference.

How do you know how much 3FE and the other places are paying for their benas? I'd imagine they'd be paying similar enough prices to be honest.

All My Stars Aligned

adrian522 wrote: »

How do you know how much 3FE and the other places are paying for their benas? I'd imagine they'd be paying similar enough prices to be honest.

No there not because they are buying green beans and roasting them themselves.

Anyway, cost of bean aside, 3.50 is really quite expensive compared to other speciality shops in Ireland. Personally I would not pay it but each to their own.

adrian522

It's not like it doesn't cost them anything to roast their beans. Their roastery didn't come free, that was a pretty big investment and that cost also has to be factored in.

Also it's not like none of the places you mentioned roast their own beans, as I said, I always find the coffee their excellent and am happy to pay for it, but I'd usually just buy the beans and make my coffee at home.

3.50 is a bit on the expensive side but I don't think its ridiculous profiteering or anything. You get what you pay for and their are plenty of cheaper places if that is what you are after.

uck51js9zml2yt

adrian522 wrote: »

It's not like it doesn't cost them anything to roast their beans. Their roastery didn't come free, that was a pretty big investment and that cost also has to be factored in.

Also it's not like none of the places you mentioned roast their own beans, as I said, I always find the coffee their excellent and am happy to pay for it, but I'd usually just buy the beans and make my coffee at home.

3.50 is a bit on the expensive side but I don't think its ridiculous profiteering or anything. You get what you pay for and their are plenty of cheaper places if that is what you are after.

You cant put the cost down to their roastery. I was in the Roast House in Tralee at the weekend. They roast their own beans....It was a really nice coffee.....cost €2.50 a cup.

I'd have bought a bag of beans only I'm overflowing in coffee atm.

adrian522

I'm not putting their cost down to that, I'm saying just because they roast their own beans doesn't mean their overall cost is drastically reduced.

They'll price their products to maximise profits like any business but I've already accepted above that you can get cheaper espresso elsewhere if that is what you are after.

J_E

Deleted User wrote: »

'third wave' coffee is what happens when Americans get their hands on things they don't understand. See also: insanely hoppy craft beer.

Totally off the ball. Third Wave is one of the best things to happen to cafes and I am so thrilled that Dublin are on point with it. I was in Switzerland last week and the general standard of coffee was not on par. It was hard to find a place that didn't put out cheap machine-made coffee for €5 a pop. All industrial beans. Was thoroughly disappointed. I don't think people know just how good we have it here. The point is now you have a wealth of flavours, not just 'dark'. Don't like the light roasts? Just go somewhere else and see what they offer! Cafes have their own signature tastes, it's so great.

maxwell smart

J_E wrote: »

Totally off the ball. Third Wave is one of the best things to happen to cafes and I am so thrilled that Dublin are on point with it. I was in Switzerland last week and the general standard of coffee was not on par. It was hard to find a place that didn't put out cheap machine-made coffee for €5 a pop. All industrial beans. Was thoroughly disappointed. I don't think people know just how good we have it here. The point is now you have a wealth of flavours, not just 'dark'. Don't like the light roasts? Just go somewhere else and see what they offer! Cafes have their own signature tastes, it's so great.

As a regular visitor to Switzerland I agree that some of the coffee there is terrible, but there are plenty of automated machines now making perfectly acceptable and consistent coffee. (James Hoffman recently wrote an interesting article on this). These are popular with the Swiss as they value consistency (in everything!).
Regarding the €5 price, Switzerland is more expensive than Ireland for everything. A bottle of water can cost €6. So you can't compare it on a like for like price basis with here.

aristotle25

I find 3FE a bit expensive as well but it is good quality. Easy to forget they probably forged the way forward for proper coffee in Dublin many years ago when they started in Twisted Pepper.
Plently of strong competition for them now though which is good for us all. Coffee Angle is one I like.

In fairness they should keep charging 3.5 for an espresso while the demand is there. They are well known now. If you don't like the price there are plenty of other excellent coffee shops in Dublin.

J_E

maxwell smart wrote: »

As a regular visitor to Switzerland I agree that some of the coffee there is terrible, but there are plenty of automated machines now making perfectly acceptable and consistent coffee. (James Hoffman recently wrote an interesting article on this). These are popular with the Swiss as they value consistency (in everything!).
Regarding the €5 price, Switzerland is more expensive than Ireland for everything. A bottle of water can cost €6. So you can't compare it on a like for like price basis with here.

Oh yeah, I'm a big filter fan, but I found a lot of the coffees quite disappointing. Was aching for a good flat white when I got back here! I just couldn't find any that were notable in Lucerne.

All My Stars Aligned

aristotle25 wrote: »

I find 3FE a bit expensive as well but it is good quality. Easy to forget they probably forged the way forward for proper coffee in Dublin many years ago when they started in Twisted Pepper.
Plently of strong competition for them now though which is good for us all. Coffee Angle is one I like.

In fairness they should keep charging 3.5 for an espresso while the demand is there. They are well known now. If you don't like the price there are plenty of other excellent coffee shops in Dublin.

Believe it or not Coffeeangel was going a fair while before 3FE opened. I believe Colin worked for Karl for a bit! KP... the grandaddy of the Irish coffee scene :pac::pac::pac:

Sorry Karl!!!

alastair

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

Believe it or not Coffeeangel was going a fair while before 3FE opened. I believe Colin worked for Karl for a bit! KP... the grandaddy of the Irish coffee scene :pac::pac::pac:

Sorry Karl!!!

Karl's set-up down at the second Electric Picnic must have been a lightbulb moment for a bunch of budding coffee entrepreneurs - massive queues of people waiting to get good coffee. Great to see the bricks and mortar Coffee Angels getting a foothold now.

I suppose the trifecta of the Coffe Angel Piaggios, Bald Barista, and Coffee Society laid the ground for all the decent coffee shops that followed.

imme

Was there once

It didn't endear me to itself

A wanky kind of place, all very happy with their own style, prices etc

Sounds very harsh that:(

jive

As long as people pay it, they can charge it. I've gotten beans and espresso in there before, neither were for me but that's not saying they were bad.

From the outside looking in, they've done really well which has forged the way for many other 'third wave' cafes to open up or expand in Dublin (along with those listed above). It's great to see independent cafes opening up rather than closing only for a Starbucks, caffe Nero or costa coffee to pop up with their 10,450th store.

You can always vote with your wallet!

Amirani

J_E wrote: »

Totally off the ball. Third Wave is one of the best things to happen to cafes and I am so thrilled that Dublin are on point with it. I was in Switzerland last week and the general standard of coffee was not on par. It was hard to find a place that didn't put out cheap machine-made coffee for €5 a pop. All industrial beans. Was thoroughly disappointed. I don't think people know just how good we have it here. The point is now you have a wealth of flavours, not just 'dark'. Don't like the light roasts? Just go somewhere else and see what they offer! Cafes have their own signature tastes, it's so great.

Agree completely. Outside of maybe Australia, Dublin has arguably the most diverse and vibrant coffee scene of any city of its size in the world. The volume of places selling really good coffee has exploded in the past few years, with a lot of it related to the much maligned "third wave".

limnam

I haven't been to 3FE in years. Not by choice. But really loved when it was in the pepper.

It was a bit different then as you were generally served by "the man" himself who makes the most amazing coffee and to this day have only had better outside of Ireland.

His knowledge and enthusiasm for all things coffee was all part of the experience for me and would be happy to pay 3.50 and more for that.

He's one man and doesn't sound like he scales well.

Disappointing to hear people are not having a "real" 3FE experience anymore I'll have to try and get back and see how it's changed

carrieb

3FE coffee is not middle of the road, appealing to the masses, it's marmite. People either LOVE it or HATE it. I'm a fan but I know many people who do find it far too bitter... and many people who refuse to wait the 10 mins it takes for your coffee to be made. For me it's worth it!

There is a great coffee scene in Dublin at the moment. Loads of great independent shops popping up and doing a great job.

Lilliput Stores in Stoneybatter does great coffee and I've recently discovered Granthams on Aungier St - both highly recommended.

I'd pay €3.50 for a coffee in 3FE all day long rather then the crazy money for the dishwater that comes from the automatic machine in Starbucks!

J_E

carrieb wrote: »

I'd pay €3.50 for a coffee in 3FE all day long rather then the crazy money for the dishwater that comes from the automatic machine in Starbucks!

OK, but I think it's only fair to compare like to like. There are places charging €3 that are phenomenal.

carrieb

J_E wrote: »

OK, but I think it's only fair to compare like to like. There are places charging €3 that are phenomenal.

Fair point but TBH it's getting to the stage that €3.50 is the norm in Dublin city (in the new indie shops). I paid €3 today but it was a 6oz cup!! I hate large cups but even for me this was tiny.

All My Stars Aligned

One thing I always find strange is how shops using 3FE beans can sell coffee for about 50c cheaper then 3FE themselves.

Bottleopener

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

One thing I always find strange is how shops using 3FE beans can sell coffee for about 50c cheaper then 3FE themselves.

Thats because there is a big difference between the generic blends such as the Malarkey Blend that 3fe sell to a lot of retailers and the single origin stuff you get in the shop itself. Just because it has the 3fe logo on it doesnt mean that you are getting the same generic coffee every single time. The SO stuff has higher cost at production level, and as such will obviously be more expensive. You cant just make a straight comparison like that!

Eoin_g

Bottleopener wrote: »

Thats because there is a big difference between the generic blends such as the Malarkey Blend that 3fe sell to a lot of retailers and the single origin stuff you get in the shop itself. Just because it has the 3fe logo on it doesnt mean that you are getting the same generic coffee every single time. The SO stuff has higher cost at production level, and as such will obviously be more expensive. You cant just make a straight comparison like that!

I wouldn't call their blends "generic". I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure 3fe coffee is the same as hasbean in the uk. If so, their blends are a mix of "SO" beans just blended for a different flavour. Blends are common for espresso and often better than SO.

Bottleopener

Eoin_g wrote: »

I wouldn't call their blends "generic". I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure 3fe coffee is the same as hasbean in the uk. If so, their blends are a mix of "SO" beans just blended for a different flavour. Blends are common for espresso and often better than SO.

Sorry, bad phrasing there! What I moreso meant is that if you go into 3fe's bricks and mortar shop itself, you are likely getting limited run unique beans (usually a selection of 3 or 4 on offer) which have higher production costs than the blends 3fe make which are on sale in other coffee shops.

For example, you see this "Momentum Blend" often in cafes around Dublin: https://shop.3fe.com/product/momentum-blend , whereas a coffee like this: https://shop.3fe.com/product/costa-rica-farami-de-dota-red-honey-catuai, would more often be on sale in 3fes own shop. As can be seen the momentum blend is cheaper even to buy in bean form, so its natural that the other one linked costs more when on sale.

This wasnt a critique of the quality of the Momentum/Malarkey blends, just highlighting to the above user why you may see other shops serving coffee roasted by 3fe at a lower price than a coffee which is on sale in 3fe itself

All My Stars Aligned

Bottleopener wrote: »

Sorry, bad phrasing there! What I moreso meant is that if you go into 3fe's bricks and mortar shop itself, you are likely getting limited run unique beans (usually a selection of 3 or 4 on offer) which have higher production costs than the blends 3fe make which are on sale in other coffee shops.

For example, you see this "Momentum Blend" often in cafes around Dublin: https://shop.3fe.com/product/momentum-blend , whereas a coffee like this: https://shop.3fe.com/product/costa-rica-farami-de-dota-red-honey-catuai, would more often be on sale in 3fes own shop. As can be seen the momentum blend is cheaper even to buy in bean form, so its natural that the other one linked costs more when on sale.

This wasnt a critique of the quality of the Momentum/Malarkey blends, just highlighting to the above user why you may see other shops serving coffee roasted by 3fe at a lower price than a coffee which is on sale in 3fe itself

To my mind this still does not justify the price 3FE charge as many other cafes, after paying premium prices form some of the worlds best roasters, still manage to charge considerable less.

To be honest, when I used to frequent the place, granted that was some time ago, more often then not the coffee, by speciality coffee standards, was average at best. Things may have improved.

Also, having worked in many very busy specialty coffee shops, both in Ireland and elsewhere, the time it takes to prepare drinks is ridicules. Again, this may have improved.

Anyway, each to their own.

adrian522

For value for money it will be hard to beat Nicks in Ranelagh. €1 espresso, €1.50 double. €2 Flat White/Cappuchino.

Free coffee if buying beans. I dont think its as good as some of the other more expensive places, but if you want great value for money you won't better than that anywhere.

J_E

adrian522 wrote: »

For value for money it will be hard to beat Nicks in Ranelagh. €1 espresso, €1.50 double. €2 Flat White/Cappuchino.

Free coffee if buying beans. I dont think its as good as some of the other more expensive places, but if you want great value for money you won't better than that anywhere.

And free if you are over 65! That place is wonderful, I just wish it was closer to me.

Triangular

The filter coffee in 3FE is nice but over-priced. 

As far as I know, up until very recently, they weren't roasting their own. They were buying everything from HasBean in the UK. Considering how prolific they are on Social Media, I presume we would have been told about their amazing roasting capabilities by now if they were roasting their own.

Krusty_Clown

Triangular wrote: »

The filter coffee in 3FE is nice but over-priced. 

As far as I know, up until very recently, they weren't roasting their own. They were buying everything from HasBean in the UK. Considering how prolific they are on Social Media, I presume we would have been told about their amazing roasting capabilities by now if they were roasting their own.

Like this? https://www.3fe.com/roastery/

Triangular

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Triangular wrote: »

The filter coffee in 3FE is nice but over-priced. 

As far as I know, up until very recently, they weren't roasting their own. They were buying everything from HasBean in the UK. Considering how prolific they are on Social Media, I presume we would have been told about their amazing roasting capabilities by now if they were roasting their own.

Like this? https://www.3fe.com/roastery/

 Bingo!

OldBean

Triangular wrote: »

The filter coffee in 3FE is nice but over-priced. 

As far as I know, up until very recently, they weren't roasting their own. They were buying everything from HasBean in the UK. Considering how prolific they are on Social Media, I presume we would have been told about their amazing roasting capabilities by now if they were roasting their own.

3FE have been roasting their own for the past 2-3 years. They recently moved to a bigger roastery due to demand.

Utijogs

Bought 250g bag of beans for €13 from 3fe which lasted me a weekend (I was shaking like a leaf come Sunday), and 1kg bag Lavazza super crema from <other Irish discount coffee crowd> for €23 which I can't wait to get rid of. The 3fe beans won hands down, but it's an expensive habit. SO is there anyone else in Ireland selling freshly roasted beans that lie between the two?

Bus Boy

Each to their own. Live close to 3FE and just don't get the hype. Spend a lot of time around the world drinking coffee and its average. Anyone tried SilverSkins Coffee? Now that's nice.

north south east west

Bus Boy wrote:

Each to their own. Live close to 3FE and just don't get the hype. Spend a lot of time around the world drinking coffee and its average. Anyone tried SilverSkins Coffee? Now that's nice.

Utijogs wrote:

Bought 250g bag of beans for €13 from 3fe which lasted me a weekend (I was shaking like a leaf come Sunday), and 1kg bag Lavazza super crema from for €23 which I can't wait to get rid of. The 3fe beans won hands down, but it's an expensive habit. SO is there anyone else in Ireland selling freshly roasted beans that lie between the two?

Badger and Dodo sell good quality beans and they cost about 9 euro for 250g