External bifold or sliding door, where to start?

ollietrex

Hi

We are hopefully just about to close on a new house and I am trying to figure out the best place to start finding out about putting in a sliding door / bifold door into the back of our new house.



The width marked in red is about 350cm and we will have to remove the load bearing middle part and install a steel or plinth to support the rest of the extension. Will a window company do a complete job on something like this or will we need to get a builder / window company to work together to complete it?

Sorry if this sounds stupid just not sure who if the best person to start talking to for work like this?

Any ideas what sort of price a job like this might cost?

Caillte

In relation to the support of the roof after you take out the existing wall I would strongly recommend an engineer to size the steel for you and the connections based on the window supplier's requirements . Some builders will know from experience what size you need which could save you money but always nice to have the professional back up should anything ever go wrong.

Your builder will strip and out and temporary support, You would then need a fabricator to come and fit the steel for you, the window supplier will do a full install and then your builder could do the rest in terms of insulation and tidying out around the new opening.

Im not going to suggest a price given that there are so many variables.

Gumbo

ollietrex wrote: »

Hi

We are hopefully just about to close on a new house and I am trying to figure out the best place to start finding out about putting in a sliding door / bifold door into the back of our new house.



The width marked in red is about 350cm and we will have to remove the load bearing middle part and install a steel or plinth to support the rest of the extension. Will a window company do a complete job on something like this or will we need to get a builder / window company to work together to complete it?

Sorry if this sounds stupid just not sure who if the best person to start talking to for work like this?

Any ideas what sort of price a job like this might cost?

In order of appearance :

Get builder in to strip back finishes and expose the fabric of the structure.
Get Engineer in so he can see exactly what is bearing on what and he will design the beam then.
Get builder to prop walls, insert beam and get structurally sound.
Get Window company out to measure actual opening remaining and price up a new door.
Get window company to fit door.
Get builder to make good reveals, plastering, painting etc
Have Party

ollietrex

Humm.... I was just hoping we might be able to get one person/company to do it all so I don't have to try and manage lots of different people. I take it that's really what a design company / foreman on a job would do?

Caillte

Ollie,

A builder worth his salt should do all the coordination but you can save loads by arranging it yourself directly. Cut out the middle man so to speak. Easy for me to say as coordinating contractors is my day job :P

Best of luck.

ollietrex

Brilliant, thanks a lot for the info, will do some looking around for a good builder and get some quotes.

Any one have any suggestions of some one in the Bray direction?

Calahonda52

kceire wrote: »

In order of appearance :

1. Get builder in to strip back finishes and expose the fabric of the structure.
2. Get Engineer in so he can see exactly what is bearing on what and he will design the beam and the bearings then.
3. Get builder to prop walls, insert beam and get structurally sound.
4. Get Engineer back to inspect work before anything is covered over.
5. Get certificate from engineer saying the work is kosher.
6. If engineer specifies steel uprights for the bearing, consider the thermal bridging issues.[ unlightly but possible.
7. Get Window company out to measure actual opening remaining and price up a new door.
8. Get window company to fit door.
9. Get builder to make good reveals, plastering, painting etc
10. Send party invites to posters on boards
11. Have Party

Just an amendment to what kc penned

Re bifold versus sliding, once you ago this big, they both get v heavy and the wheel bearings will fail over time

BryanF

Spilt the 3.5m in 4 equal spacing put French doors in two of the four. Same sized opening as sliding door

chillit

I am debating a similar situation at the moment. i.e. do I go bi-fold or just put in french doors.
I have ruled out sliding doors as we expect that this door with get alot of use (it will be a bit like a back door) and several sliding door suppliers have said that the rollers won't stand up to constant daily use.
So that leaves us with 
a) bifold - 4 panels with one panel at the end that opens like a standard door for daily use 
b) the arrangement bryanf mentioned above of 2 glass panels either side of a french door.
My other half thinks we should go for the bi-fold for the bifold for the "wow" factor. There is a obviously an increased cost factor for the bifold versus a french door. I agree it would be lovely on a fine summer day if we could open back the whole wall but realistically how often can you do that in Ireland. Overall most of the fittings in the house will be standard so I am not too worried about the additional cost for the bifold if it will add so "style"" to the property.
Mainly I am worried that a bi-fold door won't be as well sealed as a french door would be. 
Doesn't anyone have real life experience with bi-fold doors? are they well sealed ? how often do you actually open them back fully. Mine would be west facing in a rural setting but we are under a hill so not too exposed. 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I hope I didn't hijack the thread too much.

Boaty

chillit wrote: »

I have ruled out sliding doors as we expect that this door with get alot of use (it will be a bit like a back door) and several sliding door suppliers have said that the rollers won't stand up to constant daily use.

The quality of sliding doors must have fallen dramatically considering suppliers are saying this. I've a sliding front door which has been in for the last 20 years, yeah the rollers have worn a bit but not to a point where I'd even contemplate replacing it.

ollietrex

I managed to find a construction company in the end who will do the complete job for us so there is no management on our side:-)

Speaking to them the biggest mistake he said people make it going for a cheap bifold or sliding door, spend that bit more and it really will pay dividends. I like the idea of the sliding door as you get much more glass space but you do lose that once a year novelty of when its sunny in Ireland opening the whole back of the house out to the garden.

Easttoeastish

ollietrex wrote: »

I managed to find a construction company in the end who will do the complete job for us so there is no management on our side:-)

Speaking to them the biggest mistake he said people make it going for a cheap bifold or sliding door, spend that bit more and it really will pay dividends. I like the idea of the sliding door as you get much more glass space but you do lose that once a year novelty of when its sunny in Ireland opening the whole back of the house out to the garden.

Have you got a rough quote? We're looking at something similar and trying to figure out if it's a 5k-10k job to get it done now or if it's more just put it off until more work is ready to be done.

ollietrex

Easttoeastish wrote: »

Have you got a rough quote? We're looking at something similar and trying to figure out if it's a 5k-10k job to get it done now or if it's more just put it off until more work is ready to be done.

Hi, it was a rough estimate but its more towards 10k, the doors are about 5k them selves.

Gumbo

Easttoeastish wrote: »

Have you got a rough quote? We're looking at something similar and trying to figure out if it's a 5k-10k job to get it done now or if it's more just put it off until more work is ready to be done.

The door alone would be 5-6k in Aluclad, cheaper in uPVC.
Then you have the structural work and builders labour and costs. Deffo 10k job.

Easttoeastish

ollietrex wrote: »

Hi, it was a rough estimate but its more towards 10k, the doors are about 5k them selves.

Thanks for that! It's great to get an idea before I start pricing around.

JonathonS

ollietrex wrote: »

I managed to find a construction company in the end who will do the complete job for us so there is no management on our side:-)

I would advise against leaving it up to a builder to choose your doors. I made that mistake 10 years ago when I was up to my eyes in work and did not have enough time to properly research specs, features and quality of sliding doors. Still regretting it.

+1 on spending more to get a quality product. Avoid bi-fold.

Gumbo

JonathonS wrote: »

I would advise against leaving it up to a builder to choose your doors. I made that mistake 10 years ago when I was up to my eyes in work and did not have enough time to properly research specs, features and quality of sliding doors. Still regretting it.

+1 on spending more to get a quality product. Avoid bi-fold.

+1
The builder will most likely put in a uPVC "Patiomaster" or similar.
I would recommend something better.

chillit

JonathonS wrote: »

ollietrex wrote: »

I managed to find a construction company in the end who will do the complete job for us so there is no management on our side:-)

I would advise against leaving it up to a builder to choose your doors. I made that mistake 10 years ago when I was up to my eyes in work and did not have enough time to properly research specs, features and quality of sliding doors. Still regretting it.

+1 on spending more to get a quality product. Avoid bi-fold.

Hi Jonathon

Could you say more about why you recommend to avoid bifold. I am trying to decide between bifold and large slider myself at the moment so any insight would use useful.

mike_2009

Hi,
Plenty of articles on BiFold vs Sliding doors if you search here on boards.ie or on the internet. Most self build mags cover it every now and again too.
BiFolds - when closed they have a greater level of frame blocking your view, plus they cost usually twice as much as a lift and slide door. Lift and Slides can be heavier/harder to open but with BiFolds you can incorporate a door leaf so get in and out easily for bins etc without having to open the entire section. Look brilliant when fully open though, love the idea!
Lift & Slide - more open sightlines when closed, less frame. You can only open to 50% typically though, compared to nearly 90% with BiFolds on those lovely sunny summer days we get in Ireland....(!). Remember when open you have two layers of glass overlapping so you're not going to see as much through them as before, only noticed that at a recent exhibition. There are versions with three sections so you can open up 66% or the door opens into a recess in the wall but you're adding $$$$
Air Tightness is harder with BiFolds, only a few rate well there and some tend to leak air and get draughty after a few years. You have to watch if you want zero threshold how you handle water ingress detailing etc. There is some fud around security of each but ask to see how the manufacturer prevents lift and rob (!) and if they meet secure by design UK standards etc.
Have a look at them in the showrooms for sure but ask if you can see the one you intend getting in Situ, i.e. one installed in a customer's house and how they find it. Easier to see how it holds up then!
Some are top hung, some bottom, ensure your opening can take the weight and an Engineer is happy with any lintel / RSJ replacements required. Triple glazed units are HEAVY, check your house will support the weight before it topples!! Also think installation, access, how to get them into position, through the house or side passage. BiFolds can be dismantled easier at least.
Hope this helps!

EriktheRed

Just wanted to warn anyone thinking about getting Bifolding doors from certain company in Northern Ireland. Paid deposit beginning of November with promise of 4-5 weeks completion. It's April now we still have no doors. Solicitor is being involved now as the individual has no idea what customer service is. Price was as very good, only €4500 and unfortunately got burned. As always cheap doesn't mean good 🀔
Pm me if you need the name as I wouldn't like anyone to get burned like we did.

Sausage dog

We put a 4. 2 metre size bi-fold door into a new build extension. It consists of four panels with the third door opening as the main or lead door. We preferred the look of four panels with slim frames as opposed to two wide panels which we would have had with a sliding door. Some doors have very thick frames or will only do window panes to a smaller size. It is worth doing your homework to find what you like/want. Our door cost €6,000. Very impressed with service & installation. Not in long enough to judge how often we'll open it back fully though....hoping for a good summer!

Heiser

It's a couple of years now since people here have installed the bi-folds. How you finding them now? Any regrets or are you happy out with them? I'm trying to decide what to go for myself