How are you supposed to rely on DB when...

CiboC

This morning I had to be in Dundrum at 0915. No problem, I live near the start of the 75 from Dun Laoghaire.

Bus leaves terminus at 0755 according to the timetable, I leave my house at 0755, check online and bus will be at my stop in 7 minutes. Get to the stop, app says bus will be there in 4 minutes and then..... nothing. The bus vanishes. next 75 service pops up as arriving at my stop in 20 minutes??!!

Wtf? It's a good thing I had left extra time, I got to my appointment at 0910 but how on earth are you supposed to choose this if you have alternatives?

floatwinner

So you left home at the time the bus was due to leave the terminus? Maybe you should have been there a bit earlier.

all the bais

The 75 is a notorious little bugger.

Samuel T. Cogley

I think the app is exposing exactly how many services just seem to disappear. I've always wondered if DB actually know or has the driver just naffed off for a coffee.

CiboC

floatwinner wrote: »

So you left home at the time the bus was due to leave the terminus? Maybe you should have been there a bit earlier.

When I say I live near, I mean a few km, not a few metres! It would take at least 5 minutes for a car to make the distance, never mind a bus.

That doesn't explain the vanishing bus from the 'live' timetable, after I got to the stop the bus was reporting as being due in 4 minutes...?

magicbastarder

iirc, stops near the terminus will display next time based on timetable rather than bus position. so in this case, it's probable the 7:55 bus never actually left the terminus.

SarahMollie

floatwinner wrote: »

So you left home at the time the bus was due to leave the terminus? Maybe you should have been there a bit earlier.

The OP never said they lived at the terminus, maybe a few stops in. They were 7 minutes early.

I had this where I used to live. Only one bus route available, so you'd check the app to see when one was coming, dutifully head outside in plenty of time and then....whoosh, the scheduled bus vanished into thin air, with the next one a further 20 minutes away.

Beyond frustrating, so glad I don't use DB anymore. Luas all the way

Samuel T. Cogley

Aye - DART here! Thank God my days of the phantom 39/39A's are over.

Tow

I was on the 122 on Dame Street before Christmas, the driver stopped in the middle of rush hour and ran into a chipper. Leaving us all on board waiting for him!
Back on topic. The 75 goes around the world and cannot be relied on. If you have the DB App and know the stop numbers you can track them, sort of...

NickNickleby

.....when

my last few attempts to use DB resulted in the usual frustration. Most recently standing at the bus stop directly outside Busaras, waiting for 14. It was 23:17 and the bus was due to leave the quays at 23:30. At 23:30 3 buses arrived together, and close behind I spy my 14 - which duly sailed around the outside of the others and didn't stop. I looked at my watch an wondered was this the earlier bus running late, or the 23:30 had miraculously materialised at my bus stop at the same time it left the terminus. Assuming the latter, I ran after the bus and caught up with it at a thankfully red light. Banging on the door and gesticulating, the driver opened and said "What's your problem". After a few exchanges about "there was no one at the bust stop", I was allowed to board.

On quite a few occasions(early evening Saturday) I have decided to travel to town on the 14 from Skelly Lane. Standing at the stop (2 from the terminus) I have watched buses coming from town and then disappear. 40 minutes standing while 2 buses should have departed, but none ever arrived, in the end stopping a taxi. I now NEVER use DB, unless SWMBO insists on walking to the Malahide Road and catching one there. And I could give you a tale of woe about my last experience of THAT - but its really just more of the same crap.Remember, so far we're talking off peak.

This thread caught my eye, because I used to work in Dundrum and after a few experiences on the bus, and fed up sitting in the car - for about 7 years I cycled instead. Except on snowy / icy days. Then I took the car. I had twice tried bus/bus or train/bus and the journey time was appalling. I reckoned it was 30% moving; 40% not moving and the rest waiting at bus stops or railway platform. ( I admit that a lot of that is not actually the fault of DB).

ZeroThreat

Tow wrote: »

I was on the 122 on Dame Street before Christmas, the driver stopped in the middle of rush hour and ran into a chipper. Leaving us all on board waiting for him!
Back on topic. The 75 goes around the world and cannot be relied on. If you have the DB App and know the stop numbers you can track them, sort of...

DB aren't too fussy about the timeliness of their working class routes.

coylemj

magicbastarder wrote: »

iirc, stops near the terminus will display next time based on timetable rather than bus position.

That is true but stops which are well over an hour from the terminus are capable of displaying a phantom bus so there is a problem in the system when services which are cancelled 'do not operate' are not removed from the system and would-be passengers looking at the RTPI display or the app on their mobiles are blissfully unaware that the bus is not running even though it seems to be on it's way.

There was supposed to be a 17:10 Newcastle (Co. Wicklow) to Blackrock service one Friday, due in Blackrock at 18:40. RTPI said it would be at Grange Motors, Deansgrange at 18:30. I waited from 18:15 and at 18:29 it disappeared from the system. Needless to say, it never arrived.

I complained to DB and got this generic 'one size fits all' reply .............


In relation to the accuracy of the information being displayed, the system is designed to reflect, as accurately as possible, the time that a bus is due at a particular point. Traffic congestion can sometimes cause the information to fluctuate, and this is a normal part of the RTPI system.

However, instances may arise whereby a bus may be required to be rescheduled, for example due to traffic congestion, running behind schedule, accidents or diversions. As a result a bus which was displayed, may be rerouted or taken out of service, therefore this bus will disappear off the screen.

We are closely monitoring this system and we will continue to make adjustments to provide as accurate information as possible for our customers.

Kai123

238 Tyrrelstown bus is very irregular, twice I've got the taxi home with strangers from Blanchardstown SC because the 238 is a no-show (and normallly parked up on the main shopping street in Tyrrelstown).

testarossa40

ZeroThreat wrote: »

DB aren't too fussy about the timeliness of their working class routes.

But but but... Aren't they Serving the entire community??!

uxiant

On the subject of relying on Dublin Bus, I was on a 46a yesterday which didn't go up the slip road at UCD. Do buses not stop there after a certain time or something? That sounds very strange though.

Kyleboy

uxiant wrote: »

On the subject of relying on Dublin Bus, I was on a 46a yesterday which didn't go up the slip road at UCD. Do buses not stop there after a certain time or something? That sounds very strange though.

No don't use the slip road late at night, it's because of anti social behaviour by students at ucd.

Yarghhh

I had a similar problem with the number 9 route one evening. I rang the depot for that route. The guy informed me that town was busy and the last 3 buses hadn't left as it had taken them more then there allotted time to make it across town and their shift had ended, then had gone straight back to the depot. So DB are aware of the buses going missing most of the time I believe but have not sufficient coverage or drivers to make up for lost time!!

Sabre0001

Ah the disappearing bus! Once trying to get home from the city centre, I checked the app - loads of time. Decided to pop to the shop, came back out, checked app - no bus. "Damn," I thought, "must have taken too long. I'll go up to the bus stop just in case the board says differently" because I was still pretty sure I had time.

Went up - no sign of the bus on the board either. Waiting around a few minutes and then decided to go for plan b, which meant going to a different bus stop. Wandered down O'Connell St. to next bus stop and was there a minute or two when *whoosh* bus I had planned to get went sailing by with very few on board. Very frustrating!

ThisRegard

A month or two ago I was waiting for a bus at the third stop on the route, there before it was due to leave as they have a habit of leaving early. RTI telling me I had 7/8 minutes to wait. No sign of the bus 15 minutes later.

I tweet DB and in fairness they got back saying the bus left and gave a location 10 minutes down the road. I told them then it didn't come the way it was supposed to as I was there before the departure time, so they said they'd look into it.

So either they were lying on Twitter to me thinking I might have been late, or the driver skipped the route. It's not the first time I've encountered a phantom bus on that route and I don't even get buses that often.

hytrogen

All these complaints of phantom buses, has anyone actually lodged complaints with DB & TFI I wonder?
I'm sure if we did that we'd start seeing improvements of service finally because they get away with murder without the conductors or inspectors now

devnull

hytrogen wrote: »

All these complaints of phantom buses, has anyone actually lodged complaints with DB & TFI I wonder?
I'm sure if we did that we'd start seeing improvements of service finally because they get away with murder without the conductors or inspectors now

See my story here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100419862&postcount=85

The impression I get from DB on twitter is that it's more about making the company look good and never admitting to doing anything wrong and about public relations, rather than helping out customers. You will find that if you take a hard line with them they will be more likely to be helpful to you.

They really, really don't want you to make a complaint to the NTA.

Yarghhh

devnull wrote: »

See my story here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100419862&postcount=85

The impression I get from DB on twitter is that it's more about making the company look good and never admitting to doing anything wrong and about public relations, rather than helping out customers. You will find that if you take a hard line with them they will be more likely to be helpful to you.

They really, really don't want you to make a complaint to the NTA.

I actually didn't know how to make a complaint the day I had problem. Will do this in future!

Kyleboy

hytrogen wrote: »

All these complaints of phantom buses, has anyone actually lodged complaints with DB & TFI I wonder?
I'm sure if we did that we'd start seeing improvements of service finally because they get away with murder without the conductors or inspectors now

What difference are conductors and inspectors going to make?

highdef

If the OP left the house at 07:55 in order to get the 07:55 bus, he's never going to make it if it is on time!

ThisRegard

She/He never said he was getting it from the terminus.

Galadriel

hytrogen wrote: »

All these complaints of phantom buses, has anyone actually lodged complaints with DB & TFI I wonder?
I'm sure if we did that we'd start seeing improvements of service finally because they get away with murder without the conductors or inspectors now

Yes, I did, the phantom 140 every day for two weeks, they replied and said the real time information displays the time the bus was due to depart at (in this case it never departed), I thought it was based on the buses actual position, no wonder it's not reliable.

Galadriel

highdef wrote: »

If the OP left the house at 07:55 in order to get the 07:55 bus, he's never going to make it if it is on time!

Read the OP again.

emroid

Common mistake made by the public.
DB Twitter and Facebook are run by outside contractors.
They dont know much.

Proof i hear you ask.
Remember last year when ALL DB staff where on strike?
DB Twitter and Facebook where still operating, because it was manned by a outside company.

For all we know this company could be responsible for hundreds of companies Twitter and Facebook accounts at the same time, hence the lack of knowledge.

cherryghost

51D before christmas never showed one afternoon. Normally take it from Essex quay out to clondalkin, so I had to take 151 after waiting 20 minutes. Ended up over an hour later than usual getting back.

On the 151, get a text from the wife asking why the 51D was parked outside Centra near Temple bar, bus driver sitting there drinking tea/coffee (its always the same drive I normally get on).

Complained to DB, they just got back to me blaming heavy traffic. Yeah, sure...

Kyleboy

cherryghost wrote: »

51D before christmas never showed one afternoon. Normally take it from Essex quay out to clondalkin, so I had to take 151 after waiting 20 minutes. Ended up over an hour later than usual getting back.

On the 151, get a text from the wife asking why the 51D was parked outside Centra near Temple bar, bus driver sitting there drinking tea/coffee (its always the same drive I normally get on).

Complained to DB, they just got back to me blaming heavy traffic. Yeah, sure...

Yes of course, didn't you know that if the driver fancied a coffee, he is allowed to miss a journey, it's not a problem... The inspector sitting in the control centre monitoring the bus will just turned a blind eye.

Chivito550

highdef wrote: »

If the OP left the house at 07:55 in order to get the 07:55 bus, he's never going to make it if it is on time!

Are you incapable of reading the post correctly?

coylemj

hytrogen wrote: »

All these complaints of phantom buses, has anyone actually lodged complaints with DB & TFI I wonder?
I'm sure if we did that we'd start seeing improvements of service finally because they get away with murder without the conductors or inspectors now

Suggest you read post #12 where I copied and pasted DB's generic response to a complaint about a phantom bus.

hytrogen

coylemj wrote:

Suggest you read post #12 where I copied and pasted DB's generic response to a complaint about a phantom bus.

Oh I did, hence why I made a sweeping rhetorical statement in contradiction of their generic statements and policy in sympathy, it's all mind tricks at the end of the day as to who can pull the wool further over the punter first and get away with it, just like politics.
They got a pay restoration so where's the restoration / improvement of services and the accountability to follow up complaints made are now the issue?

coylemj

devnull wrote: »

The impression I get from DB on twitter is that it's more about making the company look good and never admitting to doing anything wrong and about public relations, rather than helping out customers. You will find that if you take a hard line with them they will be more likely to be helpful to you.

I was in Dundrum one Thursday afternoon waiting for a 75 coming from Tallaght, none came. I asked DB on Twitter what was happening (two scheduled buses did not show up) and they ignored me, they were tweeting other stuff so someone was on the DB twitter a/c but obviously not for complaints.

devnull wrote: »

They really, really don't want you to make a complaint to the NTA.

For another complaint (documented in post #12) I attempted to complain to the NTA but when I identified it as an issue with DB, the NTA website didn't want to know because I had to complain direct to DB, they replied with a boilerplate response.

GhostyMcGhost

At the least if the time on the 'real' time board is an estimate or a scheduled time then this should be highlighted by an astrix or something similar

If you tell me it's a real time system then it sure as hell better be one. Otherwise you're just selling me horse****

I only use DB when it's 100% no alternative. I'd rather head out and drink lemonade than endure a bus to a party etc and be let down again

jimmycrackcorm

I just wish that they would tell the truth on Twitter or put the correct info up on the app or RTI signs when a bus disappears rather than always suggesting congestion.

They never say a departure was cancelled or started late.

coylemj

The problem seems to be that RTPI is programmed to assume that each bus departs from the terminus on schedule so the downstream stops will show that the bus is on it's way and will arrive at your stop at a time based on average running time over the previous few hours.

So if a service is cancelled 'does not operate', it requires someone to pull it from RTPI but clearly this does not always happen, hence the phantom buses.

highdef

Chivito550 wrote: »

Are you incapable of reading the post correctly?

I'm a bit off topic now but the Op said he (or she) lives near the start of the 75 from Dun Laoghaire. It would be reasonable to anyone to say that if someone lives near the terminus they will get the bus from the terminus and not somewhere else. If you lived closer to any following stops, you would be more likely to say that you lived near those stop(s) and not the terminus.

CiboC

highdef wrote: »

It would be reasonable to anyone to say that if someone lives near the terminus they will get the bus from the terminus and not somewhere else.

No it wouldn't. 'Near' does not mean 'at'.

highdef wrote: »

If you lived closer to any following stops, you would be more likely to say that you lived near those stop(s) and not the terminus.

No you wouldn't. That would make an assumption that everyone who reads a boards thread about DB is familiar with every street name on every bus route in the city. I did not make that assumption as it would be silly.

I am quite sure there are roads that I am totally unfamiliar with on routes all over the city. If someone were to quote 'Oaktree Lawn' in a post I would not know where it is. Far better to say it is near the end of route 37, at least then everyone gets the idea without having to go to google maps. The 75 is a long route. I live close to one end of it (but actually 8 stops away from the terminus).

dfx-

Kai123 wrote: »

238 Tyrrelstown bus is very irregular, twice I've got the taxi home with strangers from Blanchardstown SC because the 238 is a no-show (and normallly parked up on the main shopping street in Tyrrelstown).

the 238 has a chronic problem with insufficient running time. It cannot make it inside 40 minutes from end to end. If a bus is extremely late and will be therefore late for its departure from the opposite end and NTA fines are for late departures, it makes operational sense to get back on track from the other end than be fined for every departure.

Ravenholm

my favourite response from Dublin Bus on Twitter is the bus "didn't operate due to an operational issue" spiel when you asked where the phantom bus has gone.

a spin on the whole "driver didnt turn up for work"

road_high

CiboC wrote: »

This morning I had to be in Dundrum at 0915. No problem, I live near the start of the 75 from Dun Laoghaire.

Bus leaves terminus at 0755 according to the timetable, I leave my house at 0755, check online and bus will be at my stop in 7 minutes. Get to the stop, app says bus will be there in 4 minutes and then..... nothing. The bus vanishes. next 75 service pops up as arriving at my stop in 20 minutes??!!

Wtf? It's a good thing I had left extra time, I got to my appointment at 0910 but how on earth are you supposed to choose this if you have alternatives?

Indeed. You'd be a long way to Dundrum in your car in the 30 mins spent fannying around with DB!

Auld Jim Halpin

Last week I was expecting a bus at the usual time that I get every day but it said 20 mins for next one. I assumed it broke down or something and crossed the road to get a diffferent bus in the other direction to link me up to Luas. After waiting a few mins the 1st expected bus that I get every day went by heading in to city even though it said nothing about it on the app or on the Bus Stop RTPI info. I had to persist with the 2nd bus to Luas station otherwise I would be late as the next one, to the city, was still 15 mins away. The bus to the Luas was due in 6, 5, 4 ,3 ,2, 1 then due, then disappeared and went to 10 mins again. When that one did finally appear it was packed top and bottom. It took longer to get down the road as we had to wait at each stop for a load of px to get off so new px could get on and find a safe place to stand before driver could move off. By the time I reached Luas it was too late for Luas to have me on time so had to flag a taxi at a cost of E15.

If the data on the RTPI signs is just an estimate based on the bus timetable how then do DB buses arrive at the moment it says "due", if this was an estimate it would vary wildly when the actual bus would arrive. So the buses do have GPS then? and they do send in their location to a central computer? then where do the phantom buses come from? It does not make sense to have RTPI info for buses based on the timetable as that means very little especially to hard pressed commuters. Timetables have meant little to DB for years so Im not sure why they mean anything now. Only buses that are actually on the road should be used for the RTPI data.

LuckyLloyd

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I just wish that they would tell the truth on Twitter or put the correct info up on the app or RTI signs when a bus disappears rather than always suggesting congestion.

They never say a departure was cancelled or started late.

They do if you tweet them.

Anytime now a bus doesn't show that should I tweet them - they'll tell you quick enough if it's cancelled or just delayed.

Dyr

Auld Jim Halpin wrote: »

If the data on the RTPI signs is just an estimate based on the bus timetable how then do DB buses arrive at the moment it says "due", if this was an estimate it would vary wildly when the actual bus would arrive. So the buses do have GPS then? and they do send in their location to a central computer? then where do the phantom buses come from? It does not make sense to have RTPI info for buses based on the timetable as that means very little especially to hard pressed commuters. Timetables have meant little to DB for years so Im not sure why they mean anything now. Only buses that are actually on the road should be used for the RTPI data.

This all makes sense but if if RTPI was actually real time without Dublin bus having the ability to game it then everyone would see what a cluster**** their service is. Can't have that

Bray Head

Would it not be more useful to have a website or app showing the precise location of all buses at any given point?

Users' own heuristics are probably better than an algorithm at coming up with an arrival time at a given stop.

Dyr

Bray Head wrote: »

Would it not be more useful to have a website or app showing the precise location of all buses at any given point?

Users' own heuristics are probably better than an algorithm at coming up with an arrival time at a given stop.

I have a feeling that some enthusiastic amateur had done this when rtpi first came out

Chivito550

Yesterday I got to my stop (which is the terminus) and the bus was there but in complete darkness. I wrapped on the window a few times thinking the driver might be asleep. I see a woman sitting down inside on a passenger seat. I gesture to her and she indicates that the driver is upstairs. 2 minutes after the time the bus should have left a middle eastern man came downstairs, turned on the bus, opened the door and then proceeded to go apesh1t at me. He said "what's your problem, I was saying my prayer". I said to him that the bus was supposed to go 2-3 minutes ago and he kept saying "it doesn't matter" quite aggressively.

Have no issue with anybody's religious beliefs but this is beyond farcical that somebody can delay a service like this and then aggressively challenge me as if I'm the one in the wrong. I said to him I'd report him and he says "fine, report me", but I really couldn't be bothered, because even by Dublin Bus standards this is just too ridiculous to even bother with.

ED E

Bray Head wrote: »

Would it not be more useful to have a website or app showing the precise location of all buses at any given point?

Users' own heuristics are probably better than an algorithm at coming up with an arrival time at a given stop.

This is why we have RTPI. Its obfuscated data. DB have the tech to monitor every bus to the meter but wont share it with us or the NTA as it would expose how useless they are.



To the OP:
Bus due to leave at 7:55
At 7:35 the RTPI will predict it to as due in 20 mins
At 7:45 the RTPI will predict it to as due in 10 mins
At 7:55 RTPI states due
At 8:00 ish theres no bus registered with the system for that route, driver has called in sick, so its instance disappears.

Problems:
A. RTPI is ****.
B. DB dont hold hot spares ready, if somebody was on the booze too heavy on Sunday tens to hundreds of pax are discommoded on Monday.

posy2010

Yesterday a half empty 39a sailed by a stop of people. Best thing was that there was a uniformed Dublin Bus driver trying to hail it down with us. He said to report it as he couldn't!

Korvanica

Never had a 14 go missing on me. Must only happen on some routes.