Hybrid or electric car?

unkel

hargo wrote: »

3. The real distance for the 24kw Leaf is 140KM

That's the only one he got right. Sort of. Depending on the weather, your route, your speed, etc.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what a salesperson is saying. In general. About anyhting. Nothing new here with electric vehicles. Ask in here though, plenty of regular contributors (and real life EV owners) who do know what they are talking about who would be more than willing to ask any question you have!

bk

hargo wrote: »

2. Don't charge every night unless it is at least down to about 50km as bad for the battery.

God, an absolute idiot who knows nothing about batteries or EVs! No wonder so few EV's are being sold with idiots like this selling them.

You can perfectly, safely charge every night, it will make no difference. Yes batteries will eventually degrade after a large number of full charge cycles. However two 50% charges are the same as one 100% charge. Or 10 10% charges across 10 nights is the same as one 100% charge every 10 nights.

hytrogen

hytrogen wrote: »

The Jaguar iPace looks the sexiest thing on the way next year, range expected over 500km on a 90kwh battery!

Imagine the cost ? but yes, It does look good .

hytrogen

Deleted User wrote:

Imagine the cost ? but yes, It does look good .

Just take my money!!!

hytrogen

cros13 wrote:

Yeah, they even have me tempted to skip going Tesla for my next car with that one. Depends on how the pricing looks.

I read somewhere recently a quote from Elon Musk himself that Tesla aren't staying in the auto industry for too long, maybe the charging points but it's not in their long term business model and that it was all for a social experiment to get people motivated for the future technologies while he develops SpaceX
What a hero!

Shefwedfan

hargo wrote: »

1. €3000 extra for 30kw version and only 30 Km extra distance, he says not worth it.
2. Don't charge every night unless it is at least down to about 50km as bad for the battery.
3. The real distance for the 24kw Leaf is 140KM
4. Fast charge very bad for battery.

Oh these 4 the most concerning would be fast charge, is this correct?

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Oh these 4 the most concerning would be fast charge, is this correct?

None of the 4 are correct.

Shefwedfan

Breakdown so far of offer

€ 11250 -for trade in.
Hyundai Battery Electric vehicle € 35445.00 less € 5000-00 (grant) - €30445
€ 19195 cost to change.

Strange because the web says the price for electric car is €28,495. I would guess delivery is circa 500 quid??

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Breakdown so far of offer

€ 11250 -for trade in.
Hyundai Battery Electric vehicle € 35445.00 less € 5000-00 (grant) - €30445
€ 19195 cost to change.

Strange because the web says the price for electric car is €28,495. I would guess delivery is circa 500 quid??

I'm sure someone else will correct if wrong, but I think the full grant is 10k for a bev

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/EV_Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grants_Overview.html

patsryan

The grant for a Battery Electric Vechile (BEV) is €10k in total, made up of €5000 SEAI Grant and €5000 VRT Rebate, making the Ioniq €28495 before delivery

KCross

goz83 wrote: »

I'm sure someone else will correct if wrong, but I think the full grant is 10k for a bev

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/EV_Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grants_Overview.html

Technically its €10k but both have already been accounted for in their headline price of €28495.

You get €5k off the RRP and you get a €5k VRT exemption.
So, Hyundai set their RRP at €33495. Then there would normally be VRT on top of that. In this case there is no VRT so thats your €5k VRT exemption given.

Then the €5k grant comes off the RRP to give you the €28495.

If you have a scrappage car you can get another €4k off that again.

@Shefwedfan, the price seems a little high alright. Did you ask for any extras? Metallic etc?
Time to shop around I'd say!

slave1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Breakdown so far of offer

€ 11250 -for trade in.
Hyundai Battery Electric vehicle € 35445.00 less € 5000-00 (grant) - €30445
€ 19195 cost to change.

Strange because the web says the price for electric car is €28,495. I would guess delivery is circa 500 quid??

Or import a nearly new for £22k (€26k landed) then sell your own car privately for say, €11k and (albeit a nearly new, not new) at a cost of €15k...

I can't understand anyone buying new unless they have a banger and getting benefit from a scrappage scheme...

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Or import a nearly new for £22k (€26k landed)

LOL, why would you do that? Go through all that trouble and end up paying more for a second hand car than it costs brand new here?

I paid a lot less than that and mine has metallic paint (€795)...

But I agree, if you're not happy with the deal, sell your own car privately and buy a "company car" banger for €50 and use that for the €4000 scrappage.

Laviski

would the plug in hybrid be a better option if living in apartment or is using fast charger every couple of days fine or again is that bad for the battery life expectancy?

Calahonda52

Laviski wrote: »

would the plug in hybrid be a better option if living in apartment or is using fast charger every couple of days fine or again is that bad for the battery life expectancy?

AFAIK, the PHEVs have very little range on the elec charge and are primarily used to keep the road tax down.
e.g. there is a Volvo T8 PHEV parked in Malahide dart station all day neatly everyday, plugged in but not caring: its free parking: elec range is 13 miles

budgemook

Calahonda52 wrote: »

AFAIK, the PHEVs have very little range on the elec charge and are primarily used to keep the road tax down.
e.g. there is a Volvo T8 PHEV parked in Malahide dart station all day neatly everyday, plugged in but not caring: its free parking: elec range is 13 miles

What an asshole!

I really want to move to electric however I live in a single car home so will be waiting for the 300km range cars to come out.

unkel

budgemook wrote: »

What an asshole!

Imho it's unfair to give out about someone who is just making use of facilities, 100% legally.

stesaurus

budgemook wrote: »

What an asshole!

I really want to move to electric however I live in a single car home so will be waiting for the 300km range cars to come out.

Not an asshole. There should be a lot more chargers at train stations though. They also don't need to be capable of providing more than say 3kw as more than likely you're going to be parked there for 8-10 hours while at work.

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

Imho it's unfair to give out about someone who is just making use of facilities, 100% legally.

I'd be hesitant of saying he's not an asshole just because it's not illegal, that's way too generous.
Ice'ing a charge space that's not marked is not illegal but 'if' they know what they are up to and have other options then most likely the shoe fits.
Also using an FCP with a Phev or hogging of an FCP when you don't really need it etc.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

@Shefwedfan, the price seems a little high alright. Did you ask for any extras? Metallic etc?
Time to shop around I'd say!

No extra's, Just asked for Ioniq Electric car

Didn't realize from website there was optional extra's?

zilog_jones

Laviski wrote: »

would the plug in hybrid be a better option if living in apartment or is using fast charger every couple of days fine or again is that bad for the battery life expectancy?

The Ioniq Plug-in has a range of around 40-50km, so unless you have a short commute then you won't get much benefit by not charging daily. I doubt it supports fast chargers anyway, and it's not out yet.

Laviski

okay so then to the other question is fast charging good or bad for the battery or is that the salesmen in showroom talking rubbish..?

unkel

s.welstead wrote: »

most likely the shoe fits.
Also using an FCP with a Phev or hogging of an FCP when you don't really need it etc.

I've just invented a new word: chargetiquette

cros13

Laviski wrote: »

okay so then to the other question is fast charging good or bad for the battery or is that the salesmen in showroom talking rubbish..?

I've done over 200,000km across three EVs with an average of 200+ rapid charges per year, sometimes on long trips up to 6/7 rapid charges per day, with no detectable capacity loss. I've never restricted charging below 100% either, and I'd actually advise against charging only to 80% indicated on a regular basis.

The only really risky behaviour I'd suggest avoiding is rapid charging a hot battery in an EV without a battery cooling system (e.g. the Leaf).

The Gen 1 Leaf (2010 - mid 132 reg) did have issues with capacity degradation in hot climates or with a lot of rapid charging. Every EV that's hit the market since has not shown similar issues over the same timescales.

hytrogen

KCross wrote:

You get €5k off the RRP and you get a €5k VRT exemption. So, Hyundai set their RRP at €33495. Then there would normally be VRT on top of that. In this case there is no VRT so thats your €5k VRT exemption given.

Oh yes that wonderful acronym we still get heavily fined by the EU for.. I wonder how much that "grant" or "exemption" will cost the Exchequer in the next budget?

cros13

€1 million combined budgeted every year since 2010.

Mooooo

s.welstead wrote: »

I'd be hesitant of saying he's not an asshole just because it's not illegal, that's way too generous.
Ice'ing a charge space that's not marked is not illegal but 'if' they know what they are up to and have other options then most likely the shoe fits.
Also using an FCP with a Phev or hogging of an FCP when you don't really need it etc.

Just on this obviously leaving a car all day or much longer than needed to charge is taking the piss when facilities aren't great but if one wishes to make the most of the electric part of phev what's the issue with them charging also in order to reduce the engine use for the commute or whatever. If it's the only car they have that's may the best way to reduce fuel costs

Shefwedfan

Ok I am working the numbers and as I can't seem to get decent value for my car I need to review the business case :P

My preference is the Hyundai....

What I am trying to work out exactly how much I would save on fuel per year. So if I work out my average mileage per year and then I take a punt at cost of diesel I should work out what current car costs

What I have no idea how to do is work out if I do same mileage in a electric car how much it would cost if I average out electric costs similar to diesel. I would have guessed this would be available but I can't find?

Thanks

Calahonda52

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok I am working the numbers and as I can't seem to get decent value for my car I need to review the business case :P

My preference is the Hyundai....

What I am trying to work out exactly how much I would save on fuel per year. So if I work out my average mileage per year and then I take a punt at cost of diesel I should work out what current car costs

What I have no idea how to do is work out if I do same mileage in a electric car how much it would cost if I average out electric costs similar to diesel. I would have guessed this would be available but I can't find?

Thanks

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/I_am_a_consumer/Benefits_of_Buying_an_Electric_Vehicle/

You need to look at the whole package: differential Tax, ins, nct, and planned maintenance costs.

The lads will crunch the elec numbers but as a grand-dad, I will have a shot at the title:

When I had the Leaf on test I was getting 100km for 18kWh
So lets say 1 kWh is 20 cents all in, so that is €3.6/100km or 3.6 cents per klick...

Ok, based on my average in the Nissan leaf over about 28,000 Kms for 2016 is 17.9 Kwh/100 kms.

So we'll use 18 Kwh/100 Kms.

Divide 100 into 28,000 Kms = 280 multiply this by 18 gives you 5,000 which is the Kwh's used per 28,000 Kms .

My night rate electricity costs 8 C per Kwh , if you can manage to do all your charging at night this would cost 8 cent by 5,000 Kwh = 400 Euro's to drive 28,000 kms.

However, some charging will be done at peak rate and some at public chargers, public chargers and charge points are free to use.

I have work charging so half my 135 Km commute is free, it would be 100% if I had a larger battery, then the work charge point would meet 100% of my commute.

The Hyundai Ioniq is more efficient meaning cheaper to run , but compared to the cost of the most efficient petrol or diesel car either the leaf or ioniq costs extremely little to run.

If people got a monthly bill for petrol/diesel I guarantee they'd realise how much they spend on fuel, it's too easy to hand over cash at the till and forget about it !

Another way of looking at it is at 18 Kwh/100 kms this would be 5.55 Kms per Kwh or 5.5 Kms for 8 Cent at night rate !

One thing I forgot is that the charger is an excellent 90% efficient so add 10% to those figures.

400 Euro's + 10% = 440 Euro's

or 5.5 Kms for 8.8 Cent !

Calahonda52

Mooooo wrote: »

Just on this obviously leaving a car all day or much longer than needed to charge is taking the piss when facilities aren't great but if one wishes to make the most of the electric part of phev what's the issue with them charging also in order to reduce the engine use for the commute or whatever. If it's the only car they have that's may the best way to reduce fuel costs

Its a policy issue really: I was in a remote vineyard in Oregon last November and they had 24 charging points plus 250 ICE spots, no drama for PHEV's or EV or the ass and cart!

Another side of the policy argument is as follows:
I live in Malahide which has a Dart station: end of line so a seat guaranteed.
Fingal FCC wont permit more paid parking to increase Dart usage as it will create more traffic on the roads, creating more traffic for the yummy bummy H&M tracksuited mummies in their white, bullet proof, SUV's driving their offspring the 200 metres to school..... and so on and so forth.:D

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

400 Euro's + 10% = 440 Euro's

or 5.5 Kms for 8.8 Cent !

So someone doing 10k per year only spends €130(ish) on fuel

Not bad

Shefwedfan

Currently with a very high level using onboard computer I do 8ltr/100km

Second car is closer 10 10ltr/100km

So if I take the cost of diesel at 1.30 cent per ltr

It costs me €2,912 for 28,000 km on cheaper :P car

Electric might save a few quid

Calahonda52

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Currently with a very high level using onboard computer I do 8ltr/100km

Second car is closer 10 10ltr/100km

So if I take the cost of diesel at 1.30 cent per ltr

It costs me €2,912 for 28,000 km on cheaper :P car

Electric might save a few quid

https://www.esb.ie/tns/press-centre/2013/2013/01/30/2554

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

So someone doing 10k per year only spends €130(ish) on fuel

Not bad

About €90 per year in an Ioniq

I stick that amount of petrol in my Jaguar every week and a bit

Shefwedfan

I had to fill both cars today

€80 and €78 euro on diesel

That is not in expensive diesel shop either but decent brand, standard price. That will probably keep us going for two weeks :eek:

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I had to fill both cars today

€80 and €78 euro on diesel

That is not in expensive diesel shop either but decent brand, standard price. That will probably keep us going for two weeks :eek:

I'd be crying if I had to hand over that much in fuel !

unkel

Yeah, yeah, rub it in :mad:

Shefwedfan

To be honest I wasn't looking at the Leaf simply because I didn't like the looks. It does seem cheap compared to Ioniq

The 30 Kwh Leaf is the one to go for with 6.6 kw AC charger. It charges faster too from the DC fast chargers.

Take both for a spin and see what you think.

The SVE spec in the Leaf is the one to get and will be easier sell on.

Shefwedfan

How much does it cost to get charge point installed at home? cant find it anywhere....

peposhi

If you buy a brand new EV - ESB will install one FOC. If not - €200-700 for the charger and a €100 approx for the installation /has to be RCA aprived electrician/

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

The 30 Kwh Leaf is the one to go for with 6.6 kw AC charger.

Disagree. The cheapest 30kWh Leaf with 6.6kW charger is €28k RRP. That's €4k more than the Ioniq which is better specced, is a lot faster, a brand new design instead of a very old looking car that's been around for 7 years, and has a much better range (and isn't ugly but hey that's a subjective argument ). This makes the Leaf very poor value for money.

That said, you can buy the same Leaf from the UK, just 1 year old, for £14k, which is much better value :cool:

peposhi

Unkel, did you factor the 4k scrappage Nissan offer?

goz83

unkel wrote: »

About €90 per year in an Ioniq

I stick that amount of petrol in my Jaguar every week and a bit

I don't do a lot of miles, but my journeys are quite short, often only 2 kilometres at times. I am averaging 400klms on a full tank of petrol in a 2003 E200k, which costs circa €70 to fill. I wouldn't see massive savings compared to some on here, but I would smile every time I pass the fuel pumps if driving an electric.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Disagree. The cheapest 30kWh Leaf with 6.6kW charger is €28k RRP. That's €4k more than the Ioniq which is better specced, is a lot faster, a brand new design instead of a very old looking car that's been around for 7 years, and has a much better range (and isn't ugly but hey that's a subjective argument ). This makes the Leaf very poor value for money.

That said, you can buy the same Leaf from the UK, just 1 year old, for £14k, which is much better value :cool:

I should have explained 2nd hand the leaf is cracking value, maybe I got my wires crossed but thought there was "2nd hand" idea floating about ?

New though the Ioniq is the better car, sure , it's a lot newer.

unkel

peposhi wrote: »

Unkel, did you factor the 4k scrappage Nissan offer?

No, I didn't. Any link to it?

peposhi

unkel wrote: »

No, I didn't. Any link to it?

Here's the pricing for each grade and options to buy such as 30kw battery, 6.6kw charger and etc...

http://www.nissan.ie/vehicle/leaf/pricing

Scrappage deal link to follow in a sec...

http://www.nissan.ie/offers/new-vehicles/€4000-scrappage-offer-guaranteed

Shefwedfan

The 4k trade in offer is no good to me. Unless I sell my own car myself. Buy a cheap car, run it for 6 months and then trade it in. A lot of work involved there

If new I am going Ioniq. I suppose because the Ioniq is only out there doesn't seem to be much of a push from Hyundai dealers to sell it. Don't seem interested in pushing a deal.....well they will do a deal where I end up screwed

I am thinking of going second hand now. Get me out of paying so much in diesel. Keep car for year or 2 and then move up. Of course this restricts me to Leaf. Just not sure about Leaf as it looks like a Micra but only option

Buying second hand is anything to watch out for? IN electric is mileage a big issue?

Calahonda52

Just to add to this.
iff you want a 24Kw from the existing stock of what Nissan has they are offering a 5k scrappage.

On the scrappage T&C, they are here and some (6,7,8) do make the €50 burn car idea floated earlier a bit hard to use, especially if you take out a new policy on the burn car, most new car policies have a heavy no refundable piece if you cancel, brought in in part to counter the burn car idea.

SOME TERMS AND CONDITIONS APPLY ….. BUT ACTUALLY NOT THAT MANY!

1. Available on passenger models Micra, Note, Juke, Leaf, Pulsar, Qashqai, X-Trail models only.
2. Available on commercial models NV300, NV400, Navara, e-NV200, Qashqai Van and X-Trail Van.
3. €3,000 scrappage applies to the NV200.
4. Available at participating dealers only.
5. Qualifying trade-in vehicles must be registered in the Republic of Ireland for at least 6 months prior to the date of trade in.
6. Qualifying trade-in vehicles must be registered in the same name as purchasing customer.
7. Qualifying trade-in vehicles must have valid NCT/CVRT(DOE) and road tax certificates.
8. Qualifying trade-in vehicles must have been insured for use on the road for at least three months in the 18 months prior to trade-in.
9. This is a mutually exclusive offer and cannot be combined with any other offers that may apply.
10. The offer is limited and may be withdrawn at any time at Nissan Ireland’s discretion.