Inquest calls for gardai to be able to seize lone L drivers cars

Chung Yong

I applied for my test last October, I've yet to receive a date for my test. I live in the arse hole of nowhere, I've no other option but to drive alone to work.

I see the government have employed more people to hand out passports to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the US and UK but can't be arsed to lower the driving test waiting times. Farcical.

sjb25

Chung Yong wrote: »

I applied for my test last October, I've yet to receive a date for my test. I live in the arse hole of nowhere, I've no other option but to drive alone to work.

I see the government have employed more people to hand out passports to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the US and UK but can't be arsed to lower the driving test waiting times. Farcical.

Did you try put in for cancellations or different test centres not having a go at you I'm just saying it worked for me now I got about 4 days notice of a test but got it quickly it was for the truck but I'm sure works the same for the car
I'm lucky I only had a provincial liecence about 3 months before I passed my car test I was only 18 as well was happy days but I also drove round on my own couple of times so won't pontificate doesn't make it right though

Chung Yong

Nope, you're correct, it's not right but what else am I supposed to do? Quit my job and go on the dole? Over my dead body. 4 days notice for a test would mean I wouldn't get a lesson in beforehand not to mention time off work.

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

Alan_007_

I don't see why people have such an issue with this.

It's kind of simple - you pass your test, you can drive unaccompanied. Don't pass your test? Don't drive unaccompanied.

I passed my test at 17, after all the new rules came in btw, and I only drove about an hour per week outside of lessons (always accompanied). I live in the country too, so it would have been fierce handy to be able to drive into town, but I didn't want to take the risk (and I wasn't allowed anyway), and you know what? It didn't kill me to wait the six months until I had the test passed.

In all honesty, I'd nearly suggest that any offense after the first one and you lose the car for good. You'd quickly see unaccompanied learner numbers drop then, if it was enforced. Parents wouldn't be so eager to give Little Johnny the keys to the family car if there was a good chance that they wouldn't see it back.

sjb25

Chung Yong wrote: »

Nope, you're correct, it's not right but what else am I supposed to do? Quit my job and go on the dole? Over my dead body. 4 days notice for a test would mean I wouldn't get a lesson in beforehand not to mention time off work.

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

Nope I'm not telling you what to do 22 weeks is silly but all I'm saying is it can be done I used my example I passed my truck test with 4 days notice I'm no great driver I applied rand them said I'd take a cancellation test date in 3 different test centres
It took about 3-4 weeks before I was rang with the 4 days notice so in those 3-4 weeks I was getting lessons 5 to be exact and a pretest an hour before my test into the test passed job done all I'm saying is it can be done quickly nobody is telling you to quit your job

grogi

Chung Yong wrote: »

Nope, you're correct, it's not right but what else am I supposed to do? Quit my job and go on the dole? Over my dead body. 4 days notice for a test would mean I wouldn't get a lesson in beforehand not to mention time off work.

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

Why do you feel entitled?

Allinall

Chung Yong wrote: »

Nope, you're correct, it's not right but what else am I supposed to do? Quit my job and go on the dole? Over my dead body. 4 days notice for a test would mean I wouldn't get a lesson in beforehand not to mention time off work.

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

When did you apply?

Just saw it was last October.

Henry Ford III

Chung Yong wrote: »

Nope, you're correct, it's not right but what else am I supposed to do? Quit my job and go on the dole? Over my dead body. 4 days notice for a test would mean I wouldn't get a lesson in beforehand not to mention time off work.

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

Plenty of alternatives:-

1/. Get a lift.

2/. Get a qualified driver to accompany you always.

3/. Get the bus.

4/. Move to within cycling distance of work.

The sense of entitlement is overwhelming.

honda boi

Chung Yong wrote: »

Nope, you're correct, it's not right but what else am I supposed to do? Quit my job and go on the dole? Over my dead body. 4 days notice for a test would mean I wouldn't get a lesson in beforehand not to mention time off work.

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

What you suppose to do?
Get a motorbike ,cycle,bus,get a lift.

pea be

I'm from the North, and as earliet said driving unaccompied is very rare here, as it would be strictly enforced. I do remeber a time when a bottle of whiskey left at the right pub would have 'bought of' the local sargent and enforcement issues would have disapeared ... but thank God its not like that any more! In fact a lot of people up here think the motoring law is not enforced enough and detection rates should be higher (speeding, drink driving and use of mobile phones).

I have been gobsmacked at relatives' attitudes across the border. Any sort of enforcement is put down to 'a money making racket' ... mot, driving unaccompanied, drink driving, speeding , use of mobile phones ... even tax and insurance!
It is difficult to argue with an ignorant person .... your entitlement to do what YOU want has created a culture where ireland has one of the highest death rates on the road in Europe.

Think about why you shouldn't obey the law that is there to try and make the roads safer .... so your entitlement and the culture you help instill nationaly causes real deaths... real pain and suffering for families.
Of course ... 'shir it'll be alright' ... but the reality is that it's not alright all the time!

jackofalltrades

Chung Yong wrote: »

I applied for my test last October, I've yet to receive a date for my test. I live in the arse hole of nowhere, I've no other option but to drive alone to work.

Is this your first test?

22 weeks is the average waiting time for my particular test centre. That is embarrassing

Are there test centres with lower wait times that you could go to instead?

Sam Kade

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

What about the amnesty driving license holders? You'd reckon they should all be made to do the test again now the backlog for doing a test has long since cleared :angel:
From the Irish Examiner, Friday, January 04, 2008

.....As environment minister in 1979, Mr Barrett was facing a huge backlog of people waiting to sit their driving test. In order to cut the backlog, he announced that all those on second or subsequent provisional licences could obtain a full licence without sitting a test. 
The amnesty was short-lived, but tens of thousands of provisional licence-holders benefited. The amnesty is regarded as one of the worst policies in recent political history. 

It's time to put that nonsense to bed, it's almost 40 years ago and it was 40k drivers. It's dragged into every thread on here about driving licences and alway exaggerated as if half the drivers today never had to do the test.

mikeecho

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's time to put that nonsense to bed, it's almost 40 years ago and it was 40k drivers. It's dragged into every thread on here about driving licences and alway exaggerated as if half the drivers today never had to do the test.

I agree.. and how many of those drivers are still I the road.

That exemption only applied to people that had applied for a driving test.
It wasn't for everyone that held a provisional.

It just shows what the waiting lists were like back then.

Time to move on.. It's 40 years ago.

greenflash

mikeecho wrote: »

I agree.. and how many of those drivers are still I the road.

Both my wife's parents for a start. Absolutely lethal on the roads, the two of them. I refuse to get into a car with either of them as they just do not have a clue how to drive beyond making the car move and going where they need to get to. Both their cars are scratched and dented and have tyre wear indicating bad wheel alignment from the amount of times they hit curbs. My mother in law thinks nothing of nudging a car in a car park while trying to park then just going off to the shops. Fortunately they only drive about 3 or 4k a year so the odds on them actually doing serious damage or injuring someone are small.

FishOnABike

pea be wrote: »

I have been gobsmacked at relatives' attitudes across the border. Any sort of enforcement is put down to 'a money making racket' ... mot, driving unaccompanied, drink driving, speeding , use of mobile phones ... even tax and insurance!
It is difficult to argue with an ignorant person .... your entitlement to do what YOU want has created a culture where ireland has one of the highest death rates on the road in Europe.

Unfortunately you are wrong in this.

Ireland is in the lower third of European countries for road death rates. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Fig_3_Number_of_road_traffic_accident_fatalities_per_million_inhabitants,_2014.png

The South and South East are lower than the West and North West which have a similar rate to Northern Ireland. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Number_of_deaths_in_road_traffic_accidents_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2014.PNG

Based on km travelled Ireland is one of the safest in Europe http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/our-roads-among-eu-safest-despite-road-deaths-spike-30367327.html

mikeecho

greenflash wrote: »

Both my wife's parents for a start. Absolutely lethal on the roads, the two of them. I refuse to get into a car with either of them as they just do not have a clue how to drive beyond making the car move and going where they need to get to. Both their cars are scratched and dented and have tyre wear indicating bad wheel alignment from the amount of times they hit curbs. My mother in law thinks nothing of nudging a car in a car park while trying to park then just going off to the shops. Fortunately they only drive about 3 or 4k a year so the odds on them actually doing serious damage or injuring someone are small.

Plenty of recently qualified drivers are just the same.

Hence why it take up two parking spaces.


Are they both just bad drivers, or do you know for a fact that they benefited from Barretts amnesty.

Cabaal

scamalert wrote: »

well its a ****ty alternative,first one is limited to what 50cc scooter,given amount of rain which is like 300 days a year,road conditions which are **** in most parts of the country,specially rural,your lucky in most cases for two cars to pass each other without need to slow down or stop.Distance is another major factor,cycling is ok for like 5miles both ways,but then again same issues like with a motorbikegs.

Utter nonsense,
It rains less in Dublin each year then it does in Amsterdam yet people in Amsterdam have no issues cycling or using motorbikes.

This crap weather excuse doesn't cut it, our weather really isn't that bad at all. I cycled to work for over 10 years and very rarely was the weather so bad I needed to fully kit out in rain gear.

greenflash

mikeecho wrote: »

Plenty of recently qualified drivers are just the same.

Hence why it take up two parking spaces.


Are they both just bad drivers, or do you know for a fact that they benefited from Barretts amnesty.

I know for a fact they both received licences under the amnesty.

LynnGrace

Heartbreaking case. Senseless, needless loss of life, may they rest in peace. I can only hope that some good comes from it.

jimmycrackcorm

honda boi wrote: »

Get a motorbike or cycle.
The amount of people I've heard about giving out about insurance,tax and other stuff.
I've told them to get a motorbike but no they,d rather drive around with nothing on the car!!
I used to commute to work on my motorbike before my accident and it costs f all ,and you can be fully legal on a provisional licence!!
The funniest excuse is they can't because of the weather/rain! Buy some poxy rain gear!
But no they,d rather drive illegally

Wait - what, you used to use a safer form of transport?

mikeecho

Cabaal wrote: »

Utter nonsense,
It rains less in Dublin each year then it does in Amsterdam yet people in Amsterdam have no issues cycling or using motorbikes.

This crap weather excuse doesn't cut it, our weather really isn't that bad at all. I cycled to work for over 10 years and very rarely was the weather so bad I needed to fully kit out in rain gear.

Dublin...
There's more to this country than Dublin

Lyle Lanley

Been driving in Ireland since 2006. Had my licence checked by a guard twice, never been breathalyzed.

Doesn't make much difference what the law says if there's nobody enforcing it.

I've been away most of the time since 2014 so maybe its changed but I did a lot of miles in a trip back home last year and nothing indicates that it has.

boardsuser1

mikeecho wrote: »

Dublin...
There's more to this country than Dublin

Sssshhhhhhh.

Don't tell the people in Dublin that.

It might eh....... upset them, being told that Dublin is a county not a country.

PaulK_CCI

mikeecho wrote: »

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's time to put that nonsense to bed, it's almost 40 years ago and it was 40k drivers. It's dragged into every thread on here about driving licences and alway exaggerated as if half the drivers today never had to do the test.

I agree.. and how many of those drivers are still I  the road.

That exemption only applied to people that had applied for a driving test.
It wasn't for everyone that held a provisional.

It just shows what the waiting lists were like back then.

Time to move on.. It's 40 years ago.

I was merely pulling it into the discussion to illustrate as another remnant of how the Irish government has been coming up with solutions of a problem. And to say that most of these drivers are no longer on the road is of course nonsense: do your math: most of the provisional license holders waiting on their test then were in their early twenties, so that makes them around 60 - 65 years old, and therefore even extra vulnerable for causing accidents.
The Provisional license system in my view is another relic from the past that should seriously be looked into and reformed if enforcement by Gardai is not working. Note, there are very few countries in the Europe that have a system like it (I believe only the UK) and when I try to explain the system abroad and how it;s enforced in Ireland, it usually results in the same disbelief and amazement as when I try to explain people about how the 'coffee shops' selling mariuhana work here in Holland :angel:. 
In my view it is in fact a lot easier for young Irish drivers to get behind the wheel of a car and start driving than any other country. It's the insurance that is the big killer... 
My son has just started driving lessons here in Holland and he simply cannot start driving a car until he has passed the test. Full stop. The only way he can practise driving is behind the wheel of an authorized instructor's car, and young drivers will need at least 30 - 35 lessons before they have any chance of getting their exam. At 35 - 45 euro's a lesson, it's quite a drain on the wallet...

Isambard

That's the same as when I learnt to drive in UKshire.
I never drove unaccompanied and nor would I have dreamt of doing so.
It's just as difficult to get to college/work there as it is here!

Cabaal

mikeecho wrote: »

Dublin...
There's more to this country than Dublin

Indeed there is, I merely used Dublin as a comparison.

I wasn't working in Dublin, the weather still isn't as bad as people "believe " it is

Jan_de_Bakker

It's a total joke anyway that an unlicensed driver can drive a car on the roads anyway, whats the fully licensed companion gonna do in an emergency - they don't have access to the pedals.

I learned to drive in Spain, here an unlicensed driver can only drive in a dual controlled car with his instructor - till he passes the exam - then he is an L driver for one year.

makes sense.

Mind you the drivers here are nuts and road deaths are crazy, but thats an enforcement issue.

Sam Kade

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

I was merely pulling it into the discussion to illustrate as another remnant of how the Irish government has been coming up with solutions of a problem. And to say that most of these drivers are no longer on the road is of course nonsense: do your math: most of the provisional license holders waiting on their test then were in their early twenties, so that makes them around 60 - 65 years old, and therefore even extra vulnerable for causing accidents.
The Provisional license system in my view is another relic from the past that should seriously be looked into and reformed if enforcement by Gardai is not working. Note, there are very few countries in the Europe that have a system like it (I believe only the UK) and when I try to explain the system abroad and how it;s enforced in Ireland, it usually results in the same disbelief and amazement as when I try to explain people about how the 'coffee shops' selling mariuhana work here in Holland :angel:. 
In my view it is in fact a lot easier for young Irish drivers to get behind the wheel of a car and start driving than any other country. It's the insurance that is the big killer... 
My son has just started driving lessons here in Holland and he simply cannot start driving a car until he has passed the test. Full stop. The only way he can practise driving is behind the wheel of an authorized instructor's car, and young drivers will need at least 30 - 35 lessons before they have any chance of getting their exam. At 35 - 45 euro's a lesson, it's quite a drain on the wallet...

It's been done to death and we call it maths not math. Do you also know that those drivers had trouble getting insurance after as they had no test done and they couldn't do the test even if they wanted to?

PaulK_CCI

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's been done to death and we call it maths not math. Do you also know that those drivers had trouble getting insurance after as they had no test done and they couldn't do the test even if they wanted to?

I am not sure about that last remark about them failing to get insurance, because these people got a Full License. In my view insurance companies are not interested in whether you;ve done the test, but rather if can produce your full license!!
That said, insurance if part of the problem too (or the result of a flawed system, that discussion is still open). The prices quoted for provisional license holders are off the planet and results in some people driving around with no insurance at all...

ABC101

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'd hate to be starting off driving in this day and age.

If I thought all these rules were put in place to prevent accidents and make the roads safer, I could get on board but I really feel that its just another way of making a quick buck.

Unfortunately Humans have a very nasty streak.... in that they strive to make things very difficult for other humans.
Over regulation, bureaucracy etc... senseless laws and procedures which are designed to crush the human spirit, all because some unelected self styled expert committee thinks it is a good idea.

bucketybuck

ABC101 wrote: »

Unfortunately Humans have a very nasty streak.... in that they strive to make things very difficult for other humans.
Over regulation, bureaucracy etc... senseless laws and procedures which are designed to crush the human spirit, all because some unelected self styled expert committee thinks it is a good idea.

I wonder what the family of the dead women noted in this case think of that?

sjb25

ABC101 wrote: »

Unfortunately Humans have a very nasty streak.... in that they strive to make things very difficult for other humans.
Over regulation, bureaucracy etc... senseless laws and procedures which are designed to crush the human spirit, all because some unelected self styled expert committee thinks it is a good idea.

How is it senseless to not allow a person who has never passed a driving test to just drive a car whenever and wherever they want as I've said I'm no great driver and I passed 4 driving tests first time they are not hard once you have the basics well people should just do them then they can drive simple

ABC101

Road deaths, car crashes are not solely the domain of the L driver.    There are probably more crashes / year by drivers with a full license than a provisional one.   I am open to correction on that if somebody can provide a link etc
Experience + maturity + good judgement is what distinguishes a safe driver from a unsafe driver.
I passed my test first time, even before I owned a car, but in no way was I a safe driver.   Only now after many years of driving would I consider myself a lot better than the previous years.
You don't suddenly gain a massive load of judgement / experience / maturity on the day you pass your test.  
My other comment about "humans striving to make things very difficult for other humans" is not solely aimed at driving and L drivers.
It was a general statement about a great many things about humans and the tendency to continue regulating a section of society / industry until it is so burdened down by bureaucracy that it just cannot function anymore, it is uneconomical, unworkable etc.
For example some countries to get a driving license, they have incorporated the extra bureaucracy of finger prints being required.   We have not implemented that in Ireland ....yet, but no doubt it is coming as there is always some arsehole thinking up some new regulation which he thinks is a good idea (so that he looks good in front of the boss and hence might get promoted quicker) but has the damaging consequences of making it harder for thousands of other people to just get a document signed etc
Where I work, I see it all the time... people thinking up extra bureaucracy, to further their own career prospects, but which also have little to do with making society / workplace better.

FishOnABike

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's been done to death and we call it maths not math. Do you also know that those drivers had trouble getting insurance after as they had no test done and they couldn't do the test even if they wanted to?

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

I am not sure about that last remark about them failing to get insurance, because these people got a Full License. In my view insurance companies are not interested in whether you;ve done the test, but rather if can produce your full license!!
That said, insurance if part of the problem too (or the result of a flawed system, that discussion is still open). The prices quoted for provisional license holders are off the planet and results in some people driving around with no insurance at all...

It makes no difference. I know someone who got one of these licences all those years ago. There is no way to tell from their licence whether they ever sat a driving test or not. It is the same full driving licence. The fact that they never sat a driving test or got a certificate of competency has never arisen when it comes to insurance.

There's also probably a small number of drivers still on the road who got their driving licence before the driving test was introduced in 1964. Before that all you had to do was fill in a form and hand over your money. You didn't even have to have ever seen a car let alone sat behind the wheel of a car back then to get a full driving licence.

bucketybuck

ABC101 wrote: »

There are probably more crashes / year by drivers with a full license than a provisional one. 

There are probably more crashes caused by male drivers than there are by dogs driving cars. Should we be ok with dogs driving cars?

Of course there will be more crashes by people with full licenses, there are exponentially more of them on the roads...

ABC101

bucketybuck wrote: »

ABC101 wrote: »

There are probably more crashes / year by drivers with a full license than a provisional one. 

There are probably more crashes caused by male drivers than there are by dogs driving cars. Should we be ok with dogs driving cars?

Of course there will be more crashes by people with full licenses, there are exponentially more of them on the roads...

Ah.... but if you only saw my dog:D!!!!

Banana Republican

I learnt to drive without even a provisional back in the day but then again things have changed a lot since. Personally know of several people who drive daily on a provisional without L plates as needs must. I can see it from both sides i suppose.

ederkeh

There's no gardai on the roads enforcing the rules, so the risk is seen to be much less for learners. I am driving maybe 5 years (mainly Dublin), have never been stopped at a checkpoint once.

ederkeh

ederkeh wrote: »

There's no gardai on the roads enforcing the rules, so the risk is seen to be much less for learners. I am driving maybe 5 years (mainly Dublin), have never been stopped at a checkpoint once.

I meant to add, 4 of those years as a qualified driver

Jimmy Garlic

bazz26 wrote: »

Laws are all great but utterly useless without enforcement.

And a lot of laws are just utterly useless, or needlessly punitive. They need to go away and fry some bigger fish.

ABC101

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

bazz26 wrote: »

Laws are all great but utterly useless without enforcement.

And a lot of laws are just utterly useless, or needlessly punitive. They need to go away and fry some bigger fish.

I believe they are!!!!

Trying to fry those "disgusting" whistleblowers!!

boardsuser1

ABC101 wrote: »

I believe they are!!!!

Trying to fry those "disgusting" whistleblowers!!

Is that you Martin Callanan? :pac:

Del2005

FishOnABike wrote: »

There's also probably a small number of drivers still on the road who got their driving licence before the driving test was introduced in 1964. Before that all you had to do was fill in a form and hand over your money. You didn't even have to have ever seen a car let alone sat behind the wheel of a car back then to get a full driving licence.

I'd say there's more than a small number. Anyone in their 70s and driving will have the licence from the days before the test. They usually also have the licence full as it was the same to tick B as A, B, C, D, (E)

lollsangel

Theres also a lot of drivers who ticked every box on the driving license form after passing their tests and have licenses to drive everything from trucks to motorbokes without every having driven one

the_syco

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'd hate to be starting off driving in this day and age.

If I thought all these rules were put in place to prevent accidents and make the roads safer, I could get on board but I really feel that its just another way of making a quick buck.

Currently, if you fail your driving test, you can drive home. Heck, I once drove to the test centre, failed the test, and drove home.

Grolschevik wrote: »

The most recent Road Traffic Act makes it illegal for a car owner to knowingly allow a learner to drive the car unaccompanied.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/act/21/section/39/enacted/en/html#sec39

What happens if the learner driver is the one that owns the car?

lollsangel wrote: »

I think theres many older drivers (ie driving years and years) that are driving around so long on a provisional and picked up such dirty habits that it would be near impossible for them to pass the test. I wouldnt like to sit it now.

Welcome to busville. Population; your entire town :P

newacc2015 wrote: »

The state should not allow the construction of home where they aren't on a decent bus route. This is the norm elsewhere in Europe.

Agreed. If you looked at the many thousands of houses that the left think the homeless should be housed in; there are entire estates that do not have a path outside the estate to goto even a shop!

=-=

The Gardai should have the same system as the english police; the cars fitted with a camera that will scan every cars number plate, and alert them if their tax/NCT/insurance is out, so that they can pull them over and fine/fine/take the car off them.

With the people linked to the cars, also, to say who is the learner, so if the person driving looks like the learner, pull them over, and seize the car.

Alan_007_

The Gardai should have the same system as the english police; the cars fitted with a camera that will scan every cars number plate, and alert them if their tax/NCT/insurance is out, so that they can pull them over and fine/fine/take the car off them.

With the people linked to the cars, also, to say who is the learner, so if the person driving looks like the learner, pull them over, and seize the car.

They do, to some extent, for checking tax, insurance and NCT.

It surely wouldn't be much more of a stretch to apply it to learners.

Grolschevik

the_syco wrote:

What happens if the learner driver is the one that owns the car?

Either they hadn't thought of that, or the learner owner might still be prosecuted under subsection 1, and be unable to avail of the defence in subsection 2.

Good point, though!

grogi

Grolschevik wrote: »

Either they hadn't thought of that, or the learner owner might still be prosecuted under subsection 1, and be unable to avail of the defence in subsection 2.

Good point, though!

Answer the following questions:
- is he/she the owner?
- did an unaccompanied driver use the vehicle?
- did the owner know and allow for such usage?

If all three are YES, then the owner can be successfully prosecuted. In case of the learner-owner, they all are.

creedp

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

It's a total joke anyway that an unlicensed driver can drive a car on the roads anyway, whats the fully licensed companion gonna do in an emergency - they don't have access to the pedals.

I learned to drive in Spain, here an unlicensed driver can only drive in a dual controlled car with his instructor - till he passes the exam - then he is an L driver for one year.

makes sense.

Mind you the drivers here are nuts and road deaths are crazy, but thats an enforcement issue.

And yet all have passed their tests and are competent drivers. One could only imagine the carnage if they let L drivers loose on the roads. I'm on the road every day and I must say its so obvious to see the high std on the majority of our qualified drivers.

mikeecho

Currently, if you fail your driving test, you can drive home. Heck, I once drove to the test

the_syco wrote: »

-=

The Gardai should have the same system as the english police; the cars fitted with a camera that will scan every cars number plate, and alert them if their tax/NCT/insurance is out, so that they can pull them over and fine/fine/take the car off them.

With the people linked to the cars, also, to say who is the learner, so if the person driving looks like the learner, pull them over, and seize the car.

That's kind of difficult, when they buy lots of i30s,

It is physically impossible to fit an ANPR system into a Hyundai i30.