Inquest calls for gardai to be able to seize lone L drivers cars

flutered

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'd hate to be starting off driving in this day and age.

If I thought all these rules were put in place to prevent accidents and make the roads safer, I could get on board but I really feel that its just another way of making a quick buck.

a kid i know came back after a spin in the uae, got a job in the city, got a fiesta, 3k for insurance, provided he got no points in the first 6 months, on his first morning on the way to work he came across a cop pulling, his l sticker on the on the windscreen had slipped to the dash, immediate penalty points, he turned around went home and arranged to go back to the uae, so the country lost a tax payer

Thelomen Toblackai

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'd hate to be starting off driving in this day and age.

If I thought all these rules were put in place to prevent accidents and make the roads safer, I could get on board but I really feel that its just another way of making a quick buck.

It's seems like a pure cash grab to me.

If they were actually serious about road safety there would be a legitimate way for people to learn to drive and become road legal and safe drivers that doesn't rely on 30/40 hours of driving on the roads with a random seat filler beside you who could be the most clueless driver on the road for all anyone knows who may not even have done a test depending on their age.

Rather than have an actual proper process to learn how to drive correctly or ensure all these things they are forcing people to pay for like the theory test and mandatory lessons actually bring peoples driving ability up to a particular standard which can be recognized they are happy to just simply charge people to tick a few boxes and then expect them to go off and learn on their own anyway as they have always done and just punish them harshly if they don't have a seat filler beside them when caught.

It's the same with speeding. It's the biggest factor in road deaths. And having recently completed my 12 lessons and started driving a bit more (accompanied of course) I find it odd how nearly everyone drives over the speed limit on most occasions and the attempt to slow people down are just sneakily parked vans snagging as many people as possible to send out fines to. Again a serious issue but the solution is to generate money from it rather than try resolve it.

ABC101

I am open to be corrected but in Denmark I believe learning to drive is much more involved / complex than in Ireland.

Students are taken to a track and thought things like skid control, how to avoid it and what to do when it does happen. Skid control car I think it's called. Some vids on Youtube.

It would be very beneficial here as Ireland can and does get some torrential rain at times. It never stops to amaze me how fast a lot of drivers will go in heavy rain, some people doing 120 kph in heavy rain is just begging for a mega crash / pile up.

My golden rule for motorway in rain, drop to 100 kph, heavy rain drop to 80 kph and torrential rain I'm down to 60 kph, and white out I'm at 35 kph.

grogi

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

It's seems like a pure cash grab to me.

No, that's an actual attempt to keep the unqualified drivers off the road.

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

If they were actually serious about road safety there would be a legitimate way for people to learn to drive and become road legal and safe drivers that doesn't rely on 30/40 hours of driving on the roads with a random seat filler beside you who could be the most clueless driver on the road for all anyone knows who may not even have done a test depending on their age.

Do you know how much that would cost? And how much wining there would be about 'money grabbing'?

The system is not ideal. But I acclaim any law enforcement efforts. It is not only about the L-drivers, there should be no acceptance for breaking the law, any law.

Thelomen Toblackai

grogi wrote: »

No, that's an actual attempt to keep the unqualified drivers off the road.

Do you know how much that would cost? And how much wining there would be about 'money grabbing'?

The system is not ideal. But I acclaim any law enforcement efforts. It is not only about the L-drivers, there should be no acceptance for breaking the law, any law.

It's costing quite a bit as it is between multiple tests, multiple payments for licences, mandatory lessons, additional hours driving that requires learners to get insurance and in some cases cars and/or additional lessons.

I mentioned nothing about accepting breaking the law. I'm talking about a proper attempt to ensure people learn to drive properly and obey the law beyond charging them at every opportunity despite not actually changing the existing reliance on drivers to go off and learn themselves anyway with the help of whoever they can get to sit in the car with them.

If people are paying 300+ for mandatory time spent with a certified instructor there should be more gained from it than a box ticked to say they paid the fee and went through the lesson. It should be graded so that it will stand to your experience and in conjunction the test actually form the basis of a certain confident standard in new drivers.

As it is you could be completely hopeless and still be able drive accompanied by someone else hopeless but with a full licence fail the test multiple times and end up driving for a long time before gaining any proper competency. Increasing the chances you'll end up driving unaccompanied at some stage.

b_mac2

ABC101 wrote: »

My golden rule for motorway in rain, drop to 100 kph, heavy rain drop to 80 kph and torrential rain I'm down to 60 kph, and white out I'm at 35 kph.

You probably shouldn't be on a motorway if you're not confined enough to drive in the rain.

bucketybuck

flutered wrote: »

a kid i know came back after a spin in the uae, got a job in the city, got a fiesta, 3k for insurance, provided he got no points in the first 6 months, on his first morning on the way to work he came across a cop pulling, his l sticker on the on the windscreen had slipped to the dash, immediate penalty points, he turned around went home and arranged to go back to the uae, so the country lost a tax payer

Half the thread complaining about guards never stopping drivers or enforcing laws, your mate complaining because they stopped him and enforced a law...

ABC101

b_mac2 wrote: »

ABC101 wrote: »

My golden rule for motorway in rain, drop to 100 kph, heavy rain drop to 80 kph and torrential rain I'm down to 60 kph, and white out I'm at 35 kph.

You probably shouldn't be on a motorway if you're not confined enough to drive in the rain.

Nothing to do with confidence, it's about driving at a speed appropriate to the prevailing conditions.

telpis

I'm learning to drive at the moment and would agree with a minimum set hours of tuition before being allowed alone on the road, having a full licensed driver with me at all times just isn't practical, friends and family are not within proximity, have lives and don't have the time to sit beside me like a lemon and as a previous poster pointed out, will be useless in an emergency unless the car is dual operated.
Implementing some hardline policy because of one tragic case is not going to change anything, as long as humans have lapses in concentration there will always be accidents.

bear1

flutered wrote: »

a kid i know came back after a spin in the uae, got a job in the city, got a fiesta, 3k for insurance, provided he got no points in the first 6 months, on his first morning on the way to work he came across a cop pulling, his l sticker on the on the windscreen had slipped to the dash, immediate penalty points, he turned around went home and arranged to go back to the uae, so the country lost a tax payer

He changed country because he got pulled? Yeah right..

jca

telpis wrote: »

I'm learning to drive at the moment and would agree with a minimum set hours of tuition before being allowed alone on the road, having a full licensed driver with me at all times just isn't practical, friends and family are not within proximity, have lives and don't have the time to sit beside me like a lemon and as a previous poster pointed out, will be useless in an emergency unless the car is dual operated.
Implementing some hardline policy because of one tragic case is not going to change anything, as long as humans have lapses in concentration there will always be accidents.

It's this exact attitude that needs to change and change very soon in this country. The sooner this ancient L plate, learner permit rubbish is stopped the better.

Eric Cartman

telpis wrote: »

I'm learning to drive at the moment and would agree with a minimum set hours of tuition before being allowed alone on the road, having a full licensed driver with me at all times just isn't practical, friends and family are not within proximity, have lives and don't have the time to sit beside me like a lemon and as a previous poster pointed out, will be useless in an emergency unless the car is dual operated.
Implementing some hardline policy because of one tragic case is not going to change anything, as long as humans have lapses in concentration there will always be accidents.

Why did you move somewhere if you can't get around legally ?

Commotion Ocean

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why did you move somewhere if you can't get around legally ?

Maybe the Person is young and lives with family, not everyone "chooses" to live where they are.

grogi

telpis wrote: »

I'm learning to drive at the moment and would agree with a minimum set hours of tuition before being allowed alone on the road

Why would we require full licenses then?!

having a full licensed driver with me at all times just isn't practical, friends and family are not within proximity, have lives and don't have the time to sit beside me like a lemon

Here is an idea for you - if you can drive, PASS THE TEST... Get your full license and voila - you no longer need someone by you...

If you can't drive and won't pass the test - you shouldn't be driving alone in the first place. Nobody is preventing you from hiring an instructor and learning in such environment.

Implementing some hardline policy because of one tragic case is not going to change anything, as long as humans have lapses in concentration there will always be accidents.

Of course there will be accidents. But that's why we analyse the past ones: to understand them, eliminate the underlying causes and prevent similar ones in future. And if unaccompanied learners are causing dis-proportionally more - they should not be driving unaccompanied.

Eric Cartman

dfeo wrote: »

Maybe the Person is young and lives with family, not everyone "chooses" to live where they are.

Specifically says theyre not near family, or friends

Thelomen Toblackai

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why did you move somewhere if you can't get around legally ?

I moved away from family and friends for education and work. Should I have stayed at home on the dole ? Easier to learn how to drive, unfortunately no money for licences, tests or cars...

bucketybuck

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

unfortunately no money for licences, tests or cars...

And thats a shame for you, but the answer is not to just go ahead and drive anyway. Whats next, can't afford insurance so just go ahead and drive without it?

telpis

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why did you move somewhere if you can't get around legally ?

I'm on foot patrol at the moment, as far as I know my legs are legal :P

Thelomen Toblackai

bucketybuck wrote: »

And thats a shame for you, but the answer is not to just go ahead and drive anyway. Whats next, can't afford insurance so just go ahead and drive without it?

What the hell are you on about ? lol

I didn't say anything about going ahead and driving anyway. And "can't afford insurance so driving without it" doesn't even make any sense no matter what you think I said. It's like you read the post, misunderstood it then got confused about your own understanding and took a dig at yourself

To get you back on track we're talking about it being difficult for some people to find sponsors as despite what some of you may think people sometimes move away from family and friends for education, work etc and then find themselves in the position of needing to learn to drive. Bizarre as it may seem it does happen...

bucketybuck

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

What the hell are you on about ? lol

I didn't say anything about going ahead and driving anyway. And "can't afford insurance so driving without it" doesn't even make any sense no matter what you think I said. It's like you read the post, misunderstood it then got confused about your own understanding and took a dig at yourself

To get you back on track we're talking about it being difficult for some people to find sponsors as despite what some of you may think people sometimes move away from family and friends for education, work etc and then find themselves in the position of needing to learn to drive. Bizarre as it may seem it does happen...

Nice little rant but most people know quite well what I was on about.

Thelomen Toblackai

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nice little rant but most people know quite well what I was on about.

Yeah but what does it have to do with what I said ?

I said it's all well and good being around family being able to learn to drive but for some people that situation means no work, no money, no opportunities. So they move somewhere else to find work or to re-skill.

Then they end up in a situation where they aren't close to friends and family. But they still would need to learn how to drive. I find it strange that's not something people are familiar with given the ups and downs of the job market over the last 10 years.

I never said go ahead and drive anyway I'm saying it's not really a rational view to think everyone will be in that position to have someone available or a position to make life decisions based on whether or not they'll have someone around when to need to learn how to drive.

When you don't have a sponsor and you still need to learn how to drive it's damned expensive to hire an instructor for the recommended 30/40 hours of driving to accompany the 12 EDT lessons.

jca

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Yeah but what does it have to do with what I said ?

I said it's all well and good being around family being able to learn to drive but for some people that situation means no work, no money, no opportunities. So they move somewhere else to find work or to re-skill.

Then they end up in a situation where they aren't close to friends and family. But they still would need to learn how to drive. I find it strange that's not something people are familiar with given the ups and downs of the job market over the last 10 years.

I never said go ahead and drive anyway I'm saying it's not really a rational view to think everyone will be in that position to have someone available or a position to make life decisions based on whether or not they'll have someone around when to need to learn how to drive.

When you don't have a sponsor and you still need to learn how to drive it's damned expensive to hire an instructor for the recommended 30/40 hours of driving to accompany the 12 EDT lessons.

Damned expensive my arse, try getting on the road in any other country besides this back-water and you'll know what expense is, you wouldn't drive unaccompanied either.