Second hand houses

izzyflusky

Seeing how things are going with new builds (people waiting outside days before the launch, etc). Do you think this has had any effect on second hand houses price wise?
Personally, I've seen the lower end in some areas reduce their price (and a lot of them selling after this reduction) but on a bigger scale, has there been any impract from the help to buy on second hand dwellings?

Samuel T. Cogley

Didn't quite catch your OP - there isn't, AFAIK, help to buy on second hand homes.

Second hand homes are still seeling extrememly well, just with lots of viewings and bidding going on rather than a higher fixed price. The reason for queues is you're guaranteed one of the new builds if you're far enough forward in the queue. A second hand home will go to the highest bidder.

izzyflusky

Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I was just wondering if they had an impact on current prices at all. I was just thinking about a specific estate where new homes with a higher BER rating, etc are being built but second hand housing (a couple of decades old maybe) are being advertised for around the same price as new ones and from what I've been reading here, probably selling for higher figures.
Same thing happening in another area with housing built during the boom. It doesn't make much sense to me. Although you do make a fair point when mentioning limited supply of new builds.

However, I have seen lower budget houses reducing their price since the introduction of the scheme. Maybe not that many but a handful.

Samuel T. Cogley

Maybe if they're close but generally a new build is a good 100K more than a second hand home in my experiance. However as I say there's normally some distance between them.

Mitten31

Interested in this as well. In the area where I am looking new builds are on par with second hand houses - very little price difference. The new builds have higher BER ratings and are generally slightly larger square foot. Who are the people buying the second hand homes over the new builds then?
Curious to hear thoughts on this

izzyflusky

Mitten31 wrote: »

Interested in this as well. In the area where I am looking new builds are on par with second hand houses - very little price difference. The new builds have higher BER ratings and are generally slightly larger square foot. Who are the people buying the second hand homes over the new builds then?
Curious to hear thoughts on this

That's exactly what I mean. I find it very weird, particularly in a certain area where I know that the standards of the buildings are not great without taking other factors into consideration such as square footage, BER ratings, etc, so it makes no sense to me to go for one of those houses over the new ones.

axcel

We recently went for second hand over new build. Price differential was a very small part of it but more so down to 3 bed second hand vs 4 bed new so happy to weigh up the pros of an extension down the line with the money we saved now. The new estate we looked at alto gorgeous house, great finish and great ber had a small garden, totally over looked by the neighbors all around, no front garden just a driveway linking everyones together, no parking for visitors, the road between rows of houses is very narrow. These houses being three story it led to a very claustrophobic feeling once you left the house I felt, tho not everyone would think that The house we went to is a 60 year old mature estate big green shared lawns, huge non overlooked back garden, plenty of parking and space, it's a solid but cold build so savings now will be spent on upgrading that and the extension. So I think it's just each to their own.

machalla

Some possible factors :

Larger gardens than the postage stamp gardens that come with most new builds, better aspect for sunshine, more mature estates with potentially less social housing requirements than new build estates.

Also perhaps 2nd time buyers who don't get a 20k handout from the government can't compete for new builds. There is a more level pitch for a 2nd hand property when competing in that way.

New builds are targeted mostly at FTB's at the low-mid range end of the price range.

izzyflusky

machalla wrote: »

Some possible factors :

Larger gardens than the postage stamp gardens that come with most new builds, better aspect for sunshine, more mature estates with potentially less social housing requirements than new build estates.

Also perhaps 2nd time buyers who don't get a 20k handout from the government can't compete for new builds. There is a more level pitch for a 2nd hand property when competing in that way.

New builds are targeted mostly at FTB's at the low-mid range end of the price range.

Gardens in SOME instances yes, but one estate I'm thinking of (built at the tail end of the boom) would have had no front garden and small back gardens, so not much of a difference there. They have uglier fronts but that's a peronal opinion I guess.

Prices are basically the same so 20% of a new build of price X is the same of a second house. So considering the factors discussed previously I still don't get it.

machalla

izzyflusky wrote: »

Gardens in SOME instances yes, but one estate I'm thinking of (built at the tail end of the boom) would have had no front garden and small back gardens, so not much of a difference there. They have uglier fronts but that's a peronal opinion I guess.

Prices are basically the same so 20% of a new build of price X is the same of a second house. So considering the factors discussed previously I still don't get it.

I've met various people who are convinced that any house which isn't at least 30-40 years old was built badly. Only those ancient builders using secret techniques unknown to the modern cowboy builder knew how to put a house together :rolleyes:

It could also just be demand. New build houses are being snapped up by FTB's rather than STB's as they have been incentivised to buy those by the government. Leaving only the 2nd hand houses available.

The social housing aspect is a big one for many people.

Possibly even the layout of the new builds is unappealing. I've seen many in the past year and all fall into the 3 storey category which makes an estate seem cramped I think. Lizcent mentioned this already.

Or there could be some unknown factor or something unimportant to you that bothers other buyers.

ThisRegard

There can be better value found in the used market over new builds, particularly at the upper end of the market.

Casa2

I have noticed that as we have a lot of people looking for those new houses to upgrade and we have more second hand options in some areas. Ashtown few months ago I had to queue with 20 people to see an apartment and last week it was only 5 couples and no bid. I also have a list of property on my list in Daft and I noticed a lot of houses/apartments are there for more than 3 weeks and I have called a few to check if they have offers and most of EA said no offers. I am not sure if it is the price or new property help to buy.

Mitten31

Personally speaking we are hoping for a second hand house - for all of the reasons listed above. I wonder would it be true to surmise that a lot of first time buyers don't rate the importance of larger gardens, parking spaces, less cramped feeling estates? Is it the second hand buyer who has direct experience of these who is more tuned in to the benefits of a second hand house?

listermint

Mitten31 wrote: »

Personally speaking we are hoping for a second hand house - for all of the reasons listed above. I wonder would it be true to surmise that a lot of first time buyers don't rate the importance of larger gardens, parking spaces, less cramped feeling estates? Is it the second hand buyer who has direct experience of these who is more tuned in to the benefits of a second hand house?

I think it would be fair to say alot of them dont have the money and the 20K is key in all of this.

Ayuntamiento

We went for a second hand property because the area we wanted to live in has no new builds and probably won't ever as there's no vacant land left to build on.
I viewed a few new build estates out of curiosity and could never see myself living in one. Houses absolutely packed on top of each other, out on the outskirts of areas that are already far too overpopulated for the surrounding infrastructure.

nhunter100

machalla wrote:

I've met various people who are convinced that any house which isn't at least 30-40 years old was built badly. Only those ancient builders using secret techniques unknown to the modern cowboy builder knew how to put a house together

Mmmm...Priory hall springs to mind, or Longboat Quay.

gmisk

nhunter100 wrote: »

Mmmm...Priory hall springs to mind, or Longboat Quay.

Thats just the tip of the iceberg I would think.

I would think in general given a size and like for like comparison people would prefer new build as they tend to have a better BER, and in much more turnkey condition and getting that amount of money back on a house purchase would be a huge draw.

My house is approximately 70 years old, I suppose it has advantages and disadvantages over a new build. I have a nice size garden despite having an extension. An old house tends to have some character even if its small things (like a little shell door handle, or really nice old solid wooden banister).
I had no choice really given the area I was looking in, very few new builds. Second hand has the advantage of being in a fairly settled street which i like.
Also with regards build quality I never hear a peep from my neighbours honestly the walls are like something from a nuclear bunker its impossible to get a nail in!
curtain poles are also impossible so whole house has blinds lol

Parchment

Any newer houses i have been in i could hear easily through the internal and external walls. Also going up and down the stairs was noisy - you could run a herd of elephants up and down my stairs and it wouldnt make a sound.

Also hearing someone peeing makes me shudder and this seems to be an added feature in many news houses!

LirW

After seeing a lot of second hand and New houses in the past few months, we turned away from New houses in estates. Living in an estate doesn't appeal to us at all, I don't like this enclosed feeling that a lot of them give you. Also I've seen plenty of new houses with bad layouts and basically forces you into wasting a lot of space. I'd much rather prefer 80sqm with a decent layout over a 110sqm with corners that are basically impossible to use.
Also putting a bit of work into a second hand house is easy in our case, since my family has a lot of experience renovating (they come from the trade).
In the end it's just a case of affordability and personal taste, really.

Also in Some areas closer to the city you're often not paying for what you get but basically for the location. In-laws are going to sell a house this year and it's definitely a fixer-upper and the difference to a full furnished one in price is marginal.

Ayuntamiento

In some cases the second hand house will also be the property that requires the least amount of work when moving in, especially if there were decent fixtures and fittings that the previous owners are willing to leave behind.
With a new build you're starting from scratch and potentially have to pay for floors, kitchen appliances, garden landscaping, etc.

syndrome777

good few points here, as to regard of councils buying properties in high demand areas?! especially in Dublin
no sense there, fair enough if there is a social house on the market freed up , but buying houses around city center and places where working people want to live is madness.

Mrs OBumble

syndrome777 wrote: »

, fair enough if there is a social house on the market freed up , but buying houses around city center and places where working people want to live is madness.

Some social housing tenants are low paid working people.

The folks working in Silicone Docks and the like still need their canteens operated, Spars open and offices cleaned. The folks doing that work don't earn enough to make a long commute to work viable.

dori_dormer

When we were looking in Dublin we were looking at second hand houses. The new builds were tiny and cramped. No gardens. 3 stories all jammed in on top of each other. All bedrooms and no living space.
We bought in Kildare in a new estate. In this town there's mainly large detached houses so the new builds had the edge with Ber, solar panels, under floor heating etc. Gardens are decent enough as the plots are wide.
So basically different areas means different criteria !

syndrome777

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some social housing tenants are low paid working people.

The folks working in Silicone Docks and the like still need their canteens operated, Spars open and offices cleaned. The folks doing that work don't earn enough to make a long commute to work viable.

I know.

But then there's those in between low paid and Silicon crowd, which at the moment can't get ether :S

dr.fuzzenstein

machalla wrote: »

I've met various people who are convinced that any house which isn't at least 30-40 years old was built badly. Only those ancient builders using secret techniques unknown to the modern cowboy builder knew how to put a house together :rolleyes:

They certainly didn't throughout the Celtic tiger. Breeze blocks should be used for cowsheds and that was just the outside walls. A lot of Celtic tiger houses have bad insulation, no proper ceilings and upstairs walls made from nothing but plasterboard. I don't know about the current crop if houses, but anything built 2000 to 2008 is mostly flimsy, cheap and hastily and shoddily out together. Would avoid like the plague.

listermint

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They certainly didn't throughout the Celtic tiger. Breeze blocks should be used for cowsheds and that was just the outside walls. A lot of Celtic tiger houses have bad insulation, no proper ceilings and upstairs walls made from nothing but plasterboard. I don't know about the current crop if houses, but anything built 2000 to 2008 is mostly flimsy, cheap and hastily and shoddily out together. Would avoid like the plague.

Some here seem to think that anythings changed in terms of compliance or inspection.it hasn't post 2008 wasn't some enlightened change in developers thinking

ThisRegard

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

but anything built 2000 to 2008 is mostly flimsy, cheap and hastily and shoddily out together. Would avoid like the plague.

That's a massively broad brush you're using there.

dr.fuzzenstein

ThisRegard wrote: »

That's a massively broad brush you're using there.

Most estates and apartment blocks build during that time were build with a very keen eye on cost and in the shortest time possible. What I described (and lived in) was the best case scenario, not taking into consideration slowly sinking swamp land developments, pyrite builds and cut corners when it comes to fire safety. The general build quality of houses in Ireland is just inferior to main land Europe and that starts at using breeze blocks for construction. Houses anywhere else are just a lot more solid.

astrofool

ThisRegard wrote: »

That's a massively broad brush you're using there.

Up to 2001 things were generally OK, from then till the crash in 2008, materials being used were cut back more and more, less soundproofing, short cuts being taken.

Builders always take short cuts where they can, lack of regulation meant the standards dropped through the floor. The Beacon is a shining example, built and sold as premium apartments for "elite" living, now revealed as lacking fire readiness and water ingress due to missing parts.

Eric Cartman

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They certainly didn't throughout the Celtic tiger. Breeze blocks should be used for cowsheds and that was just the outside walls. A lot of Celtic tiger houses have bad insulation, no proper ceilings and upstairs walls made from nothing but plasterboard. I don't know about the current crop if houses, but anything built 2000 to 2008 is mostly flimsy, cheap and hastily and shoddily out together. Would avoid like the plague.

+1
between rising material costs, builders rushing things to finish one project and move on , and the biggest issue of all - labour supply. During those years, any lad over the age of 16 who could lift blocks without complaining was handed a job with 0 experience on a site and expected to work at the pace of experienced tradesmen. I knew people who paid decent lads to do snag lists and were coming out with 2-3 a4 pages of bullet points of things wrong with a new build, those buyers snagging themselves or with somebody not as observant (very high demand for these lads too) would have missed some of the rushed work .

athtrasna

Mod note

This thread is about second hand houses. If you want to discuss build standards I can suggest the construction and planning forum.