Dilemma about scrap/insurance

One_Of_Shanks

Hi,

Hope I'm posting this in the correct place.

Looking for advise please.

Two days ago my good lady lost control of the car, not sure if she skidded or tyre blew-out or whatever but crashed into the ditch at the side of the road and went up on 2 wheels and long story short she ended up with the car being towed away etc.

The mechanic who took the car away is saying the car (Ford Focus 2007 with 200k km on it is now an "economic write-off".

So we need to make a decision and both of us are totally clueless when it comes to cars.

As far as I can tell we have two options.
1) Claim via insurance.
2) Scrap the car and don't tell insurance company about it

Can someone please advise us because we have no idea what is best here.

Similar cars are selling for 3,500 on done-deal etc so is that what the insurance company are likely to payout if we go down that route?

And if we do that will they just hike up the premium next year and the year after etc to screw us?

If I have left out any important info that would be needed to give advise then please tell me and I'll reply with said info.

Thankfully herself is OK and all and the kids weren't in the car at the time so cudda been worse and all that.

Just trying to decide what is the best move next financially.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can offer some advice, cheers

Liam McPoyle

Does she have full bonus protection on the policy?

One_Of_Shanks

Rod Munch wrote: »

Does she have full bonus protection on the policy?

I don't know but I will check the paper-work. What does this mean?

grogi

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Hi,

Hope I'm posting this in the correct place.

Looking for advise please.

Two days ago my good lady lost control of the car, not sure if she skidded or tyre blew-out or whatever but crashed into the ditch at the side of the road and went up on 2 wheels and long story short she ended up with the car being towed away etc.

The mechanic who took the car away is saying the car (Ford Focus 2007 with 200k km on it is now an "economic write-off".

So we need to make a decision and both of us are totally clueless when it comes to cars.

As far as I can tell we have two options.
1) Claim via insurance.
2) Scrap the car and don't tell insurance company about it

Can someone please advise us because we have no idea what is best here.

Similar cars are selling for 3,500 on done-deal etc so is that what the insurance company are likely to payout if we go down that route?

And if we do that will they just hike up the premium next year and the year after etc to screw us?

If I have left out any important info that would be needed to give advise then please tell me and I'll reply with said info.

Thankfully herself is OK and all and the kids weren't in the car at the time so cudda been worse and all that.

Just trying to decide what is the best move next financially.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can offer some advice, cheers

Don't claim. You'll get a thousabd, maybe two... Easily offset by increased premium, even with ncb protection.

Nevertheless inform the insurance, the ditch owner might want to claim from your TPL policy

One_Of_Shanks

Thanks grogi. So am I right in thinking that if they payout 2k they will just get 3k or 4k from us in future years?

@ Rod Munch it says "bonus protection = step back" whatever that means.

Liam McPoyle

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Thanks grogi. So am I right in thinking that if they payout 2k they will just get 3k or 4k from us in future years?

@ Rod Munch it says "bonus protection = step back" whatever that means.

Thst basically means that if she makes a claim then she will lose part of her bonus.

Personally speaking if ye will get €2500 to €4000 for the car then its worth claiming for.

Ye will lose probably between 10% and 20% of your bonus with the step back protection so your next renewal will increase by that amount at a minimum.

So even if ye are going to pay an extra €400 or €500 a year til ye build back up the bonus, that is substantially less than ye would get for claiming to replace the car.

IMO.

One_Of_Shanks

Rod Munch wrote: »

Thst basically means that if she makes a claim then she will lose part of her bonus.

Personally speaking if ye will get €2500 to €4000 for the car then its worth claiming for.

Ye will lose probably between 10% and 20% of your bonus with the step back protection so your next renewal will increase by that amount at a minimum.

So even if ye are going to pay an extra €400 or €500 a year til ye build back up the bonus, that is substantially less than ye would get for claiming to replace the car.

IMO.

Nice one. Thanks for that mate. And really good explanation too. Feel a bit more clued in now.

Much appreciated!

grogi

Rod Munch wrote: »

Thst basically means that if she makes a claim then she will lose part of her bonus.

Personally speaking if ye will get €2500 to €4000 for the car then its worth claiming for.

Ye will lose probably between 10% and 20% of your bonus with the step back protection so your next renewal will increase by that amount at a minimum.

First of all it will be -30% from the NCB - more than half of it.

And secondly - the base premium, before applying NCB, will increase as well (and will be higher for five renewals). That might be a substancial increase, in the first year from lets say €1000 to €2000...

So if you had 30% NCB and base premium of €1000, you paid €700. After a claim your NCB is going to 10% (would be 40% at renewal, now 10%) and base premium €2000 - you are paying €1800. And that's the first year only.

Many insurers will not even quote you if you have a recent enough claim...

So even if ye are going to pay an extra €400 or €500 a year til ye build back up the bonus, that is substantially less than ye would get for claiming to replace the car.

If that would be only €500. Go online and compare the quotes, you will be entertained.

--

I stand corrected - AXA would not change the premium if there is or there isn't a claim (I used €2500 as an example)...

Liam McPoyle

grogi wrote: »

First of all it will be -30% from the NCB - more than half of it.

And secondly - the base premium, before applying NCB, will increase as well (and will be higher for five renewals). That might be a substancial increase, in the first year from lets say €1000 to €2000...

So if you had 30% NCB and base premium of €1000, you paid €700. After a claim your NCB is going to 10% (would be 40% at renewal, now 10%) and base premium €2000 - you are paying €1800. And that's the first year only.

Many insurers will not even quote you if you have a recent enough claim...



If that would be only €500. Go online and compare the quotes, you'll will be entertained.

The majority of insurers offer an NCD scale like the below

1 year : 20%
2 year : 30%
3 year : 40%
4 year : 45%
5 year : 50%

The majority of them will step back a bonus by two years there may be some that delete three years.

So even with the ncd being stepped back by 3 years, that still is only a reduction in bonus of about 20% which would equate to an increase of 20%.

Where are you getting the idea that the base premium will be increased?

You are making up figures to try an validate your point.

After a claim the base premium will double?

Please explain how you have come to this conclusion.

grogi

Rod Munch wrote: »

So even with the ncd being stepped back by 3 years, that still is only a reduction in bonus of about 20% which would equate to an increase of 20%.

Yes - it is an increase of absolute 20%, instead of decrease of 10%. So you are losing 30% of NCB.

Where are you getting the idea that the base premium will be increased?

With a claim you are higher risk than without...

And I am speaking from experience. For last five years I did a bit of legwork to get lowest quotes...

Special Circumstances

grogi wrote: »

Many insurers will not even quote you if you have a recent enough claim...

I think you're damned if you do claim and damned if you don't claim really.

They are adding more and more exclusions every year and more and more reasons to increase the premium. But... to be honest, with the way they word these things companies could probably refuse to insure you or VOID your insurance if they found out you had been in an accident or loss EVEN WITHOUT CLAIMING.

We will base your quote on the following assumptions
You and Your Named Drivers:
Have not been involved in any accident or loss, or had any claims in the last 5 years

grogi

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I think you're damned if you do claim and damned if you don't claim really.

They are adding more and more exclusions every year and more and more reasons to increase the premium. But... to be honest, with the way they word these things companies could probably refuse to insure you or VOID your insurance if they found out you had been in an accident or loss EVEN WITHOUT CLAIMING.

We will base your quote on the following assumptions
You and Your Named Drivers:
Have not been involved in any accident or loss, or had any claims in the last 5 years

They don't specify what accident or loss they are talking about... So if you lost €5 or so, they effectively can void your policy. Show me someone that was never involved in an accident, felt down on the floor in the bath etc... The government should simply impose T&C of TPL insurance...

I am seriously thinking about getting a green card from abroad and sticking it instead of the disk.

One_Of_Shanks

Thanks everyone for the replies. Really do appreciate it. Thanks a mill

In the end we couldn't decide what to do but I was slightly leaning towards scrapping the car and not telling the insurance company.
But we rang the mechanic and he said he doesnt want to get into that so it would be up to us to get another tow truck and sort it out ourselves and then we'd also owe him for his time/original tow-truck, storeage and the tax is also up on last day of this month so we just decided to go via insurance to alleviate all the stress.

I'm not happy about it but herself and her Dad (he bought her the car for her) both wanted the insurance option. Me, not so much.

We called over today to get a few important things that she had left in the car (sat-nav baby seats bla bla bla) . Obviously she was in shock at the time so she forgot to remove them.
Anyway.... The mechanic pointed out that the back right tyre is "not great" in terms of thread depth. Not bald by any means but what happens now if the insurance company refuse to pay out?
Other three tyres are perfect and it's a front wheel car (back right is the "not great" one)

So if, and going on our luck this will happen, the insurance company refuse to pay out do we still lose our no-claim bonus AND not get compensated?

Or if the insurance company use the back right's questionable tyre depth to refuse compensation do we go back to the situation of non-claim and keep our bonus but have to scrap?

This is one of the many reasons why I didn't want to involve the insurance company.

Oh and a piece of info I left out originally....... The car was registered and insured in my name. This was due to the fact that my missus who crashed was on a learner permit when the car was bought but passed her test 6 months ago.
Not sure if that is relevant or not. She is a named driver on the policy for the car that she crashed.

Again, thanks for the advice. As you can imagine, it hasn't been the best of weeks

grogi

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies. Really do appreciate it. Thanks a mill

In the end we couldn't decide what to do but I was slightly leaning towards scrapping the car and not telling the insurance company.
But we rang the mechanic and he said he doesnt want to get into that so it would be up to us to get another tow truck and sort it out ourselves and then we'd also owe him for his time/original tow-truck, storeage and the tax is also up on last day of this month so we just decided to go via insurance to alleviate all the stress.

I'm not happy about it but herself and her Dad (he bought her the car for her) both wanted the insurance option. Me, not so much.

We called over today to get a few important things that she had left in the car (sat-nav baby seats bla bla bla) . Obviously she was in shock at the time so she forgot to remove them.
Anyway.... The mechanic pointed out that the back right tyre is "not great" in terms of thread depth. Not bald by any means but what happens now if the insurance company refuse to pay out?
Other three tyres are perfect and it's a front wheel car (back right is the "not great" one)

So if, and going on our luck this will happen, the insurance company refuse to pay out do we still lose our no-claim bonus AND not get compensated?

Or if the insurance company use the back right's questionable tyre depth to refuse compensation do we go back to the situation of non-claim and keep our bonus but have to scrap?

This is one of the many reasons why I didn't want to involve the insurance company.

Oh and a piece of info I left out originally....... The car was registered and insured in my name. This was due to the fact that my missus who crashed was on a learner permit when the car was bought but passed her test 6 months ago.
Not sure if that is relevant or not. She is a named driver on the policy for the car that she crashed.

Again, thanks for the advice. As you can imagine, it hasn't been the best of weeks

They would actually prove that the fact the tyre was not great was an important factor in the accident.

If the car is insured in your name, it doesn't really matter for the payment. But you both will be tainted - you and herself are involved in the claim.

One_Of_Shanks

grogi wrote: »

They would actually prove that the fact the tyre was not great was an important factor in the accident.

If the car is insured in your name, it doesn't really matter for the payment. But you both will be tainted - you and herself are involved in the claim.

Thanks fella!

So.... I don't know how they could prove that a back tyre was to blame. Especially as the car passed an NCT 4 weeks ago.

But about the "me being tainted" part.... I am self employed and have a company van. 10 years with no problem.
Could that policy now be affected too? Despite the fact I wasnt the one who crashed?

grogi

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

But about the "me being tainted" part.... I am self employed and have a company van. 10 years with no problem.
Could that policy now be affected too? Despite the fact I wasnt the one who crashed?

Unfortunately but that's a Yes.

At the renewal they will ask you if any of the details have changed. Despite it is on different policy and it wasn't you who was driving, you are under obligation to disclose ANY claim you are involved in. And because the policy is in your name, you are involved...

One_Of_Shanks

grogi wrote: »

Unfortunately but that's a Yes.

At the renewal they will ask you if any of the details have changed. Despite it is on different policy and it wasn't you who was driving, you are under obligation to disclose ANY claim you are involved in. And because the policy is in your name, you are involved...

Thanks.

Jesus, this just gets better and better.

Cheers anyway for the reply mate.

Special Circumstances

grogi wrote: »

They don't specify what accident or loss they are talking about... So if you lost €5 or so, they effectively can void your policy. Show me someone that was never involved in an accident, felt down on the floor in the bath etc... The government should simply impose T&C of TPL insurance...

I am seriously thinking about getting a green card from abroad and sticking it instead of the disk.

I tried to get this kinda clarified on here but you only get two types of responses

"Don't be ridiculous you idiot, what they wrote is not what they mean, no I won't tell you what they mean"

Or

"Insurance is a contract which involves offer and acceptance yada yada like it or lump you gotta buy it somewhere"

lollsangel

Op just to make one point. A childs car seat that has been in a crash should NEVER be used again as there maybe damage to it. For the sake of a few euros get rid of it.

grogi

lollsangel wrote: »

Op just to make one point. A childs car seat that has been in a crash should NEVER be used again as there maybe damage to it. For the sake of a few euros get rid of it.

Well - if you're claiming, claim for the car seat as well.

mgbgt1978

TBH (and I do respect Rod Munch's posts on Boards) I honestly think that claiming for a €3,500 Car where you might get €2,500 from your Insurer is madness in the current Insurance Climate.
As already said you WILL end up paying back the bulk of the payout in increased premiums, but the biggest factor is the unknown future financial consequences for both yourself and the Mrs... both of your renewals could increase massively. Nobody here can say otherwise.
If there is no record of this incident then why subject yourself to at least 5 years of increased premiums at the very least.
Just scrap the Car, buy something else for now, and forget about it.

One_Of_Shanks

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

TBH (and I do respect Rod Munch's posts on Boards) I honestly think that claiming for a €3,500 Car where you might get €2,500 from your Insurer is madness in the current Insurance Climate.
As already said you WILL end up paying back the bulk of the payout in increased premiums, but the biggest factor is the unknown future financial consequences for both yourself and the Mrs... both of your renewals could increase massively. Nobody here can say otherwise.
If there is no record of this incident then why subject yourself to at least 5 years of increased premiums at the very least.
Just scrap the Car, buy something else for now, and forget about it.

Yeah I thought that. I ended up losing that war.

Special Circumstances

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

TBH (and I do respect Rod Munch's posts on Boards) I honestly think that claiming for a €3,500 Car where you might get €2,500 from your Insurer is madness in the current Insurance Climate.
As already said you WILL end up paying back the bulk of the payout in increased premiums, but the biggest factor is the unknown future financial consequences for both yourself and the Mrs... both of your renewals could increase massively. Nobody here can say otherwise.
If there is no record of this incident then why subject yourself to at least 5 years of increased premiums at the very least.
Just scrap the Car, buy something else for now, and forget about it.

Yeah, even a windscreen claim now could rule you out of getting quotes from other insurers at renewal time.

It's an ever more expensive piece of paper only to be called on in increasingly dire situations.

One_Of_Shanks

I showed this thread to herself and she has come around to my way of thinking.

Am I right in assuming that we can cancel the claim (we filed the claim on Friday) and keep our no claims bonus etc?

Or would we still be punished in future for filing and cancelling?

How I wish we had just done this in the first place....

mgbgt1978

If you cancel the claim you will not lose your NCB.
You will not be "punished" for filing and cancelling.

Liam McPoyle

Op, advice I would give to you, as someone that has worked in insurance for over 8 years, as someone that is employed as a underwriter for major insurer, that actually underwrites and reviews motor policies is, ignore the scaremongers in here. There is at least one that has an agenda and a narrative that is ignored by any right thinking person.

Drop me a pm (if you want) and I will give you as much of a steer as I can, I'm tied up tomorrow but will get back to you Monday if you want some informed, off the record advice.

Special Circumstances

Rod Munch wrote: »

Op, advice I would give to you, as someone that has worked in insurance for over 8 years, as someone that is employed as a underwriter for major insurer, that actually underwrites and reviews motor policies is, ignore the scaremongers in here. There is at least one that has an agenda and a narrative that is ignored by any right thinking person.

Drop me a pm (if you want) and I will give you as much of a steer as I can, I'm tied up tomorrow but will get back to you Monday if you want some informed, off the record advice.

Meeeeoooow.

I believe YOU are the source for the "undisclosed windscreen claim could void insurance" nugget.

Is non disclosure a serious issue?

Does writing off a car constitute "any accident or loss?

Does a windscreen claim constitute "any accident or loss"?

Don't blame me if I regurgitate companies own terms and conditions and the esteemed learned advice of someone that has worked in insurance for over 8 years, as someone that is employed as a underwriter for major insurer, that actually underwrites and reviews motor policies.