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Options while waiting for recently vacated investment property to sell

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  • Options
    #32
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    What makes you think it will take a long time to sell?


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    #33
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    pilly wrote: »
    What makes you think it will take a long time to sell?

    3 one bed apartments for sale in Swords.
    lowest is €140,000 and will probably sell for a bit more.
    Highest is about €175,000.
    Ill be putting mine on at €175,000 since its been done up to a high standard recently and to cover CGT I need a good price.
    Im also happy to wait it out to see if i can take advantage of the tracker.
    If i get 175 ill let it go. If not i'll be waiting it out just because i can. I doubt ill get that for some time while the rent controls have the rent for it so low, keeping investors from even considering it.

    So everything is going against it being an easy sale at that price, but I'll take my chances. As long as i figure out a way to make over €3000 (thats what the rent control allows me to make) after taxes and expenses a year from it while its for sale im happy to take my time selling. And the indications are that that will be entirely possible to make.


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    #34
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    76544567 wrote: »
    One bed apartment.
    He had different prices for summer and weekends, but if memory serves he was saying he charges an average of €70 per night.
    The whole summer was booked already as far as I remember. I think I only saw a few nights vacant in august but he says they'll all be gone soon enough.
    I think also he charges €10 a night extra after the first two. And I can't remember how much he charges for cleaning. Think it's 30 or thereabouts. I'll be taking to him again next week.

    I've a friend in donegal who does it and he says he gets June, July and august booked solid every years, but hardly any bookings the rest for the year. Maybe a total of 2 months for the entire rest of the year. I guess it depends where you are and what your market is.

    Not sure any of that makes sense ,Dublin city apartments average about 20% occupancy >90 days , Swords is an awful location for Dublin Tourists other than being close to the Airport it has no real redeeming factor and has very competitive Hotels in the area ,and while rate is pretty competitive for Dublin its not really giving it away which you would expect for that level of booking in such a bad location.

    I have a buddy with an really nice apartment on Bolton street on Air BnB , he hits >90% occupancy a year and his booking over 90 days rarely beats 30%.


    I suspect either he is spinning you a story or has got his numbers wrong


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    #35
    lcwill
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭lcwill


    76544567 wrote: »
    the rent is locked at nearly 50% below market rent.

    I'll take it off your hands, for just 40% below the market price!

    Landlords with the stomach to take a risk and sit it out until these crazy rules get changed should be able to pick up some bargains over the next couple of years.


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    #36
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    Not sure any of that makes sense ,Dublin city apartments average about 20% occupancy >90 days , Swords is an awful location for Dublin Tourists other than being close to the Airport it has no real redeeming factor and has very competitive Hotels in the area ,and while rate is pretty competitive for Dublin its not really giving it away which you would expect for that level of booking in such a bad location.

    I have a buddy with an really nice apartment on Bolton street on Air BnB , he hits >90% occupancy a year and his booking over 90 days rarely beats 30%.


    I suspect either he is spinning you a story or has got his numbers wrong

    He's my brother in law and I was looking at his account as he was explaining it to me, so I believe him. Sure if I got even a quarter of that I'd be making more than I can with the rent control and tenancies controlled by the RTB just aren't for me anymore.
    I'm hopeful about selling off the tracker though more than anything.
    The good thing is that I have options anyway.
    No harm to discuss it and get other ideas here though.


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  • Options
    #37
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    lcwill wrote: »
    I'll take it off your hands, for just 40% below the market price!

    Landlords with the stomach to take a risk and sit it out until these crazy rules get changed should be able to pick up some bargains over the next couple of years.

    It will be me hopefully selling a tracker mortgage back to the lender for 40%.
    Eg if I owe 100000, I pay them 60000 to come off the tracker.
    I approached them about something like that ages few years ago and they basically told me to get lost. Seems to be a different attitude now though and the recent news about them might be changing things too.
    Fingers crossed.


  • Options
    #38
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    76544567 wrote: »
    It will be me hopefully selling a tracker mortgage back to the lender for 40%.
    Eg if I owe 100000, I pay them 60000 to come off the tracker.
    I approached them about something like that ages few years ago and they basically told me to get lost. Seems to be a different attitude now though and the recent news about them might be changing things too.
    Fingers crossed.

    That would be some deal if you get it!!! Let us know.


  • Options
    #39
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    April 73 wrote: »
    That would be some deal if you get it!!! Let us know.

    The meeting was very positive.
    The guy said that they are doing such deals and would be willing to do one with me. He will call me Friday with an offer and said that it will be at least 30% if he can.orgamize it.
    I said no deal of it's not 40% and he said he will see what he can do.
    So have to wait until tomorrow for.nea on whether i get a deal or not.

    I have another property on a tracker with another lender so will approach them also soon.
    This property is back under my control now so I'm in a position to lay out all the options.
    Eg sell it cheap, leave it on the market for a couple of years at a good price, airbnb it, short term rent it, his pay off the mortgage with cash reserves and leave it sitting there. I tolld him I was most likely to choose a strategy that let him holding the tracker and losing money on it so it's in his interest to deal. He agreed.


  • Options
    #40
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    76544567 wrote: »
    It will be me hopefully selling a tracker mortgage back to the lender for 40%.
    Eg if I owe 100000, I pay them 60000 to come off the tracker.
    I approached them about something like that ages few years ago and they basically told me to get lost. Seems to be a different attitude now though and the recent news about them might be changing things too.
    Fingers crossed.

    Do you mean you'll sell your tracker if the bank write off 40% of the principal so that you move onto a new 60k mortgage at a variable rate? I can't see how any bank profits by just writing off 40% or any % of a mortgage and not getting anything in return. I know they make a loss from many trackers but surely not more than 5 or 10% of the principal amount at most so why would they write off more than that?

    If so, let us know the outcome as I'll happily negotiate same as I'm also on the same tracker rate as you although it's my principal residence.

    Edit: This article I found reinforces my understanding about write down refusals on trackers. I eagerly await OP's response!!

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/will-my-bank-give-me-a-bonus-if-i-pay-a-lump-sum-off-my-tracker-30992647.html


  • Options
    #41
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    ongarboy wrote: »
    Do you mean you'll sell your tracker if the bank write off 40% of the principal so that you move onto a new 60k mortgage at a variable rate? I can't see how any bank profits by just writing off 40% or any % of a mortgage and not getting anything in return. I know they make a loss from many trackers but surely not more than 5 or 10% of the principal amount at most so why would they write off more than that?

    If so, let us know the outcome as I'll happily negotiate same as I'm also on the same tracker rate as you although it's my principal residence.

    I don't quite understand why the bank would go as far as writing off 40% either. Be very interested to know if they did.


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  • Options
    #42
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    There were write ups a few weeks ago in the papers about vulture funds doing it so that's where I got the idea to make the approach.
    The deal I offered is that I either remortgage the full amount elsewhere, pay it all off by selling or by paying cash. They don't really care how as long as they get off the hook for the tracker.
    I'll let you know how it goes.


  • Options
    #43
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Got the call with an offer today.
    They said 40% off I'd I remortgage the balance with their investor rate and 35% for clearing the mortgage.
    I could take the 40% and remortgage and then clear the mortgage next year.
    I think I'll probably go with the 35% straight up while the offer is there though before its gone.


  • Options
    #44
    Aemtler
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Aemtler


    That's very interesting 76544567. Do you mind saying which bank you are with?


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    #45
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    40% haircut on property in Dublin where the payments are not under stress
    60% occupancy for the Year on an apartment in Swords with Air BnB

    There is a definite Walter Mitty feel off these numbers you are quoting

    Bets of luck to you , that is an unbelievable achievement , and as such I do not believe you !


  • Options
    #46
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Mortgage was originally with first active. Changed to tracker after about 2 years.
    Now it's Ulster Bank.

    All FA mortgages went to UBS as far as I know.

    They seemed a lot more amenable from.my first enquiries this time than the last time I approached them a few years ago. Something has changed.


  • Options
    #47
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    76544567 wrote: »
    Got the call with an offer today.
    They said 40% off I'd I remortgage the balance with their investor rate and 35% for clearing the mortgage.
    I could take the 40% and remortgage and then clear the mortgage next year.
    I think I'll probably go with the 35% straight up while the offer is there though before its gone.

    So you only have to pay 60% of the balance outstanding?


  • Options
    #48
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    40% haircut on property in Dublin where the payments are not under stress
    60% occupancy for the Year on an apartment in Swords with Air BnB

    There is a definite Walter Mitty feel off these numbers you are quoting

    Bets of luck to you , that is an unbelievable achievement , and as such I do not believe you !

    I'm a little bit suspect myself but what does OP have to gain by spoofing?


  • Options
    #49
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Fair enough.
    Not bothered if you believe me at all.
    Was just trying to I form people that may be in the same position.
    I will remain silent on the matter from here on then.
    To the people who pmd me, I will send you the docs I said I would, and the number and email of the people I contacted to get the ball rolling, but I won't be sending or responding on it from here on as I honestly don't think its appreciated at all.
    So after you get those details you'll just have e to follow it up yourselves. Best of luck with it.
    But back to my op, if anyone has any suggestions that haven't been given that would put the thread back on topic.


  • Options
    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nothing wrong with what he has done at all so don't know why you think he is a chancer. He is looking after himself and his business unlike a lot of LLs out there.


  • Options
    #51
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Kallie Elegant Livestock wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with what he has done at all so don't know why you think he is a chancer. He is looking after himself and his business unlike a lot of LL out there.

    Thankfully.
    I was beginning to think there was noone who understands what the point of an investment is.
    As far as I'm concerned you have to explore every single opportunity to make it pay. Which is exactly what I did and continue to do.
    I've decided to take the deal, pay off the mortgage, put the property on the market and airbnb it while it sits waiting for a sale. If it doesn't sell and still makes some money on airbnb that's what I'm happy with.
    If it isn't making money eyes and.not selling for the price I want ill rethink it again, but it looks like that's my best option for now anyway. When the other properties tenants leave I'll rethink it again.


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  • Options
    #52
    __Alex__
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭__Alex__


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    I think you will struggle to get bookings on Air BnB for Swords .Most of the volume is tourists and what tourist wants to stay in Swords ?

    Probably ill-researched tourists who don't realise how far out from the city it is.


  • Options
    #53
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    __Alex__ wrote: »
    Probably ill-researched tourists who don't realise how far out from the city it is.

    I would have thought people flying in hiring a car and using it as a base to explore Dublin, Wicklow and Kildare. Or maybe it's just me who flies to destinations and likes to stay on the outskirts of the city where road network gets me to numerous places and not bothered about going to the city where the airport is.
    There was a time when i didn't like hiring cars and wanted to just go to the pub, I probably would have preferred the city center, but nowadays I avoid city centers as much as possible when going on holidays. I love exploring the countryside and out of down places, people might prefer the likes of glendalough, ardgillan, newgrange, Titanic, all that kind of touristy stuff that required a drive and a car.
    But who knows, everybody has different plans when going on holidays.
    I must ask the agent, I won't be talking to them or I'm doing something wrong.


  • Options
    #54
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    76544567 wrote: »
    The meeting was very positive.
    The guy said that they are doing such deals and would be willing to do one with me. He will call me Friday with an offer and said that it will be at least 30% if he can.orgamize it.
    I said no deal of it's not 40% and he said he will see what he can do.
    So have to wait until tomorrow for.nea on whether i get a deal or not.

    I have another property on a tracker with another lender so will approach them also soon.
    This property is back under my control now so I'm in a position to lay out all the options.
    Eg sell it cheap, leave it on the market for a couple of years at a good price, airbnb it, short term rent it, his pay off the mortgage with cash reserves and leave it sitting there. I tolld him I was most likely to choose a strategy that let him holding the tracker and losing money on it so it's in his interest to deal. He agreed.

    Fair play. That is an amazing deal. I tried the same with my PPR 0.5% tracker mortgage with National Irish Bank/Danske Bank in 2014. They were having none of it at the time.
    I wonder has the climate changed & I'm guessing that your mortgage still had a long time to run which is what made it worthwhile?
    I don't believe the banks would offer this unless it benefits them.


  • Options
    #55
    newacc2015
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    76544567 wrote: »
    Got the call with an offer today.
    They said 40% off I'd I remortgage the balance with their investor rate and 35% for clearing the mortgage.
    I could take the 40% and remortgage and then clear the mortgage next year.
    I think I'll probably go with the 35% straight up while the offer is there though before its gone.

    What their investor rate?

    ICS has decent rates for BTL mortgages

    http://icsmortgages.ie/buy-to-let/


  • Options
    #56
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note

    If you want to keep discussing banking this is not the appropriate forum.


  • Options
    #57
    76544567
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭76544567


    Almost 20 years left on this mortgage. Slightly less on the other ones. I don't know what their I vestor rate was but it could easily be looked up.
    Not going with that option anyway.
    Still open to other ideas though about what to do with the property to make it pay while it's on the market, since it has to be put on the market to satisfy the RTB.
    As per mod instruction I won't be discussing banks again. Anyway I don't have anymore info I haven't told you guys already on that side of things, apart from the detail I sent in PMs. Best advice I can give is to research your own situation and make contact with you lender and turn it into a win/win conversation. Also remind them how much they have to lose while you are under no pressure. Maybe it works differently for investment properties, you would have to ask them.


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