2017 Irish Championship

sodacat11

Nice to see the ICU using initiative in trying to organize what should be a very strong Irish Championship in Limerick but 150 euro for players below 2200 strikes me as a bit OTT. I presume that the hotel will be at least 60 euro per night B&B,,,,,,,,meals and drinks at least another 30 quid per day,,,,so we are easily talking about 1,000 euro to play. I think for that money I would sooner play somewhere like Prague or Barcelona. Should be a good tournament though with Baburin and Lopez already confirmed entries.

L1m1tless

It's €150 if you are below 2000. €100 for 2000-2200

sodacat11

L1m1tless wrote: »

It's €150 if you are below 2000. €100 for 2000-2200

My mistake. I still don't see why 1900 players should be punished when they are entitled by rating to play. Better to fleece the below 1900s if they have to be admitted and leave the 1900s at 100 euro which is still expensive enough.

L1m1tless

It is expensive alright. Those with less chance of winning prize money have to pay more.

sodacat11

I see that entry is restricted to players rated over 1900 on the June 2017 ICU rating list, this is a very welcome development if it is strictly adhered to.

reunion

sodacat11 wrote: »

My mistake. I still don't see why 1900 players should be punished when they are entitled by rating to play. Better to fleece the below 1900s if they have to be admitted and leave the 1900s at 100 euro which is still expensive enough.

The same reasoning you give why you shouldn't pay more is the same reasoning you can apply to anybody who qualifies for the event.

The entry fee system is typical for a tournament like this. I don't disagree that those under 2000 but who qualify should pay more.

L1m1tless wrote: »

It is expensive alright. Those with less chance of winning prize money have to pay more.

When it's on in (pick anywhere) you have a similar issue.

ICU website wrote:

For players rated over 1900 on the June 2017 ICU published rating list.

That's a change from 1900 FIDE or ICU to ICU only right?

In addition Donatas Jocius qualifies for this event without having a 1900+ ICU rating (winner of the Irish Intermediate tournament last year). The other winners (Irish Women's, Veterans and Open) are rated higher than 1900.

I'm guessing the other Executive, Junior Officer, tournament organisers (ICU) and the Provincial delegates have agreed to not nominate a player who is under 1900 rated.

reunion

Also probably good to have a link to the event here

http://www.icu.ie/events/837

sodacat11

reunion wrote: »

The same reasoning you give why you shouldn't pay more is the same reasoning you can apply to anybody who qualifies for the event.

Not really, 1900s have a historical right to play, people under 1900 don't so if they are admitted then they should pay most.

I'm guessing the other Executive, Junior Officer, tournament organisers (ICU) and the Provincial delegates have agreed to not nominate a player who is under 1900 rated.

A very sensible idea that should have been adopted when first the exceptions were suggested.

Overall I think what is proposed is a huge improvement on recent years and a genuine attempt to restore the Irish Championship to its rightful status. My only issue is the cost. I'd love to play but the only way that I am likely to do so is if I drive there and back each day and from my house to Limerick is a ninety minute journey,hardly ideal preparation for a game.

reunion

sodacat11 wrote: »

Not really, 1900s have a historical right to play, people under 1900 don't so if they are admitted then they should pay most.

No there isn't such a thing as historical right. The point you made (why should someone sub 2000 pay a higher rate than someone above 2000) can be applied at every rating band. I would have preferred the rating bands to be a bit more consistent, so €50 at 2200 but every 150 rating points is a higher fee. So €100 and 2050 and €150 sub 2050.

sodacat11 wrote: »

A very sensible idea that should have been adopted when first the exceptions were suggested.

Nothing was requiring them to always nominate someone, nor was it intended to always be used each year. That was a misunderstanding by the people who were against it.

sodacat11 wrote: »

Overall I think what is proposed is a huge improvement on recent years and a genuine attempt to restore the Irish Championship to its rightful status. My only issue is the cost. I'd love to play but the only way that I am likely to do so is if I drive there and back each day and from my house to Limerick is a ninety minute journey,hardly ideal preparation for a game.

What non-sense.

This is €24.40 per night (€195 total) which is cheaper than driving to and from Dublin each day.

Then you can get the bus to and from the city centre (or drive) (~€4 per day or ~€32 for the event).

Alternatively this place is €247 on AirBnB in the City Centre

So it would cost ~€227 to play in the event (excluding food which you can prepare in the apartment to make it cheaper for instance).

What would your budget be to play in the Irish Championships in general? Because €227 is cheap in comparison to Dublin (€495 for a single room for the same dates).

sodacat11

reunion wrote: »

This is €24.40 per night (€195 total) which is cheaper than driving to and from Dublin each day.

Then you can get the bus to and from the city centre (or drive) (~€4 per day or ~€32 for the event).

Alternatively this place is €247 on AirBnB in the City Centre

So it would cost ~€227 to play in the event (excluding food which you can prepare in the apartment to make it cheaper for instance).

What would your budget be to play in the Irish Championships in general? Because €227 is cheap in comparison to Dublin (€495 for a single room for the same dates).

The only problem with cheap accommodation is the possibility of the neighbours from Hell but the prices you quote are certainly attractive and very affordable although I don't know now you come up with 227 euro to play in the event......150 to enter....195 to stay in your budget accommodation....36 euro bus fare or parking fees........120 to kennel my dog........at least 40 for petrol and tolls,,,,,,,I'd have to have a few pints over the week and I would most likely eat out (despite my cooking prowess)so another 250 would be reasonable,,,,,,so minimum 750 euro,,,a lot nearer to my initial estimate than yours.
Is there a weekender running alongside the main event?

reunion

sodacat11 wrote: »

The only problem with cheap accommodation is the possibility of the neighbours from Hell but the prices you quote are certainly attractive and very affordable although I don't know now you come up with 227 euro to play in the event......150 to enter....195 to stay in your budget accommodation....36 euro bus fare or parking fees........120 to kennel my dog........at least 40 for petrol and tolls,,,,,,,I'd have to have a few pints over the week and I would most likely eat out (despite my cooking prowess)so another 250 would be reasonable,,,,,,so minimum 750 euro,,,a lot nearer to my initial estimate than yours.

You realise you were saying driving to and from Dublin would be cheaper than playing and staying in Limerick? Driving to and from Dublin isn't cheaper than staying in Limerick. The difference in cost from last year's event in Dublin and this year's in Limerick is an increase of ~€230 to someone from Dublin while a saving of ~€268 from outside of Dublin (more if they are from Limerick).

sodacat11 wrote: »

Is there a weekender running alongside the main event?

There should be. I wonder why the flyer doesn't have that information and that the name of the pdf is draft 3. Maybe that wasn't the final version? I'm not sure. I suspect we will get more information as time goes on.

reunion

sodacat11 wrote: »

we are easily talking about 1,000 euro to play.

Accommodation: €195
Transfer to Accommodation: €32
Entry: €150
Food (self-catering): €50
Travel to Accommodation: €50

Total Cost: €477

You're estimate is inaccurate by a factor of 2 at least.

Your own personal budget will differ, but in general someone can play in this event for sub €500 if they wanted to.

In comparison the British Championships is £300 for entry for someone under 2000 (and the prize fund is similar), so the Irish one is better value in comparison (and cheaper).

sodacat11

reunion wrote: »

Accommodation: €195
Transfer to Accommodation: €32
Entry: €150
Food (self-catering): €50
Travel to Accommodation: €50

Total Cost: €477

You're estimate is inaccurate by a factor of 2 at least.

Your own personal budget will differ, but in general someone can play in this event for sub €500 if they wanted to.

In comparison the British Championships is £300 for entry for someone under 2000 (and the prize fund is similar), so the Irish one is better value in comparison (and cheaper).

If I am going to spend nine days at a tournament I like to have some comfort and some social life rather than lead a spartan existence, otherwise I could stay in the YMCA or in a tent at the side of the road and manage the whole thing for under 250 euro.
I don't live in Dublin. It took me exactly 90 minutes to get to Bunratty so Limerick would be about the same or maybe even less , depending on traffic. It is not such an unrealistic proposition to drive each day. When the Irish CH is in Dublin it takes me over twenty minutes to get to the Red Cow roundabout and then probably forty minutes to get to the city centre and find parking so Limerick isn't much worse. Somewhere like Kilkenny would be great for me and another venue I'd love is Gonzaga where playing conditions in the library were excellent for the recent congress.

Tim Harding

sodacat11 wrote: »

Nice to see the ICU using initiative in trying to organize what should be a very strong Irish Championship in Limerick but 150 euro for players below 2200 strikes me as a bit OTT. I presume that the hotel will be at least 60 euro per night B&B,,,,,,,,meals and drinks at least another 30 quid per day,,,,so we are easily talking about 1,000 euro to play. I think for that money I would sooner play somewhere like Prague or Barcelona.

@sodacat11: yes the EU Seniors championship clashes with the Irish Championship, so I shall probably play in the former, expecting to get more bang (and more sunshine) for my buck.

I enquired of the ECU office for more particulars of the Senior event and received a prompt reply, quoting an email they received from the organisers. I am posting this as a separate thread.

reunion

Tim Harding wrote: »

@sodacat11: yes the EU Seniors championship clashes with the Irish Championship, so I shall probably play in the former, expecting to get more bang (and more sunshine) for my buck.

Also to note that it clashes with the British Championships which is now a 9 round event taking place at the same time as the Irish Championships.

reunion

Tim Harding wrote: »

@sodacat11: yes the EU Seniors championship clashes with the Irish Championship,

Wait there isn't any overlap?

Irish Championships 29th July to 6th August
EU Senior Championships - 11 August to 21 August

Tim Harding

reunion wrote: »

Wait there isn't any overlap?

Irish Championships 29th July to 6th August
EU Senior Championships - 11 August to 21 August

Sorry you are right! But two nine-round tournaments so close together are impracticable for most people.

I remember now why the Limerick dates don't suit me; I have tickets for the first night of the World Athletics in London on 4 August.

sodacat11

I see that the venue for the Irish Championship 2017 has been changed. The West County Hotel in Ennis is a nice venue. I can't find any mention of the cost though ?
Another thing I notice is that ,unusually, there is no grading prize mentioned. Grading prizes help to attract those of us with little chance of winning the main prizes and an Irish Championship is better for having a decent amount of 1900-2100 players competing.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Confirmed entrants thus far:
GM Baburin
IM Wall
IM Lopez
FM Daly
FM O'Donnell
K Delaney
Li

The last date for 2300s+ to avail of free entry is March 31st. Look out for new offers at that point.

macelligott

The fact that there will be IM norm chances should be an added incentive for some of our norm seeking players. Normally a norm tournament needs 1/3 foreign players. However, a country is allowed one national championship per year without foreigners to count as a norm tournament. To achieve a norm one must play at least 3 IMs (or Gms) in a 9 round tournamnet. I would guess 7/9 will be required for a norm. Very difficult but achievable for our top players.

Tim Harding

macelligott wrote: »

The fact that there will be IM norm chances should be an added incentive for some of our norm seeking players. Normally a norm tournament needs 1/3 foreign players. However, a country is allowed one national championship per year without foreigners to count as a norm tournament. To achieve a norm one must play at least 3 IMs (or Gms) in a 9 round tournamnet. I would guess 7/9 will be required for a norm. Very difficult but achievable for our top players.

Go for it, Gerry!
Here's a link to the ICU preview page with pictures and profiles of all the competitors:
http://www.icu.ie/articles/696

The tournament begins on 29 July.

The 16 entries in declining order of rating:
GM Alex Baburin, IM Alex Lopez, FM Conor O'Donnell, IM Gavin Wall
FM Colm Daly, FM Philip Short, Killian Delaney, Henry Li
Rory Quinn, Paul Walsh, Anthony Fox, CM Gerry MacElligott
Rudolf Tirziman, Shane Melaugh, WCM Diana Mirza, Gavin Melaugh

The draw will probably get tricky near the end. In the recent Geneva FIDE Grand Prix (18 players, 9 rounds) by the end some people were playing opponents way below or above their score.

Half of the field are above 2200 FIDE. Norm-seekers have to meet 5 titled opponents including the two IMs and GM Baburin.
Anyone hoping for an IM norm will probably need to include rule 1.46b in their calculations. This will enable them to raise the rating of their lowest-rated opponent to the 2050 floor (or 1850 in the case of Diana if she has a chance of a WIM norm).
Realistically the best chance of achieving a new title is Killian or Henry who are within range of the 2300 target for FM, and maybe Conor for an IM norm.

Any predictions?

ComDubh

I'll predict Baburin to win it.
1. There's a deep class to his play.
2. This is his type of event.
3. For a 9-round FIDE-rated event, he'll be preparing properly, not winging along as he does in weekend events.

sodacat11

1 Lopez
2/3 Baburin. Short
4/5 O'Donnell. Li

zeitnot

Will there be a Tipster competition this year? See http://leinsterchess.com/blog/2012/07/tipster-competition/ for details.


I'm in. With prizes like those, how can you not participate?

Tim Harding

The tournament just started. It seems that Gavin Wall is not playing, so there are no IM norm possibilities.

Luke Scott appears also to have dropped out before the start.

Pairing the 8th and 9th rounds with only 14 players could prove tricky.

Gavin Melaugh v Henry Li could get exciting soon:

https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/irish-championship-2017/1/1/7

After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nf6 4 Ng5 Henry is having a very long think; can he really be considering 4...Bc5 here? Or it's a glitch with the board.

The Daly-Tirziman game has either not started (in which case zero tolerance really should be enforced for Daly) or else the board is not working.

EnPassant

According to this page https://www.icu.ie/articles/696 Gavin Wall and Luke Scott are taking a travelling bye in the first round

Tim Harding

Thanks for clearing that up, and a bye may marginally ease the TD's issues with the late rounds.

The boards are working now and I see that Daly spent 10 minutes on move 1.
Henry played 4...d5 and they've gone into the trendy 8 Bd3 line.

EnPassant

Quinn seems to have a very nice position against Baburin ... and MacElligott has sacrificed a piece against O'Donnell

Tim Harding

Interesting; MacElligott is having a long think about his follow-up at move 14.

I agree Baburin is under some pressure but there is a long way to go.

It's great to be able to watch all the games - for the first time ever, I think.

Tim Harding

Not good clock handling by Gerry: 54 minutes on his follow-up 14 Nxd5 and then 10 minutes on 15 f4, leaving himself only 5 minutes plus increments. Online Stockfish suggested 14 Bh3 Qe8 15 Qxe6+ followed by swap queens and knight with only two pawns for piece but maybe enough compensation. MacElligott must have overlooked something or didn't have a clear idea of what he intended when he played the sac.

Henry Li wasted a lot of time with his KN; he may be regretting not playing Nxd3 while it was on, or just 9...Bd6. But he will probably find some way to win it in the end.

zeitnot

I'd like to make a request: could people please not post engine analysis while the games are in progress? One of the great attractions of live games is seeing the board as the players do. It's hard to get engine analysis out of the mind once it's seen.
Yes, great to see all games live.
Alex Lopez declined a repetition against Anthony Fox but after 25. Qa2 it must be Black who's better.

Tim Harding

zeitnot wrote: »

Alex Lopez declined a repetition against Anthony Fox but after 25. Qa2 it must be Black who's better.

Online Stockfish at chess24 does not agree with you. Black is a pawn down with another one ready to drop off.

Alex was never going to agree a draw with Tony Fox as early as move 18, especially as White in round 1.

cdeb

zeitnot wrote: »

I'd like to make a request: could people please not post engine analysis while the games are in progress? One of the great attractions of live games is seeing the board as the players do. It's hard to get engine analysis out of the mind once it's seen.

Just as a compromise, it is possible to post analysis but keep it hidden by using the spoiler tags. You can see this on the top right of the page when posting a new post (a black rectangle with "spoiler" written in white). If you click on it and then type between the tags,

people won't be able to see what's been posted

unless they highlight it.

So that way, it can be kept hidden, and those who want to see it can do so.

EnPassant

Killian v Diana looking like a draw now ... very strange game.

First Elm Mount score

Tim Harding

EnPassant wrote: »

Killian v Diana looking like a draw now ... very strange game.

First Elm Mount score

Yes, excellent result for Diana. I thought she was a Bray/Greystones player?

Shane Melaugh did well also.

Thanks for the "spoiler" tip; might use that for later rounds. Unfortunately I shall be away for the second half but there should already be some critical pairings from tomorrow or Monday.

It looks as if today will finish with wins for Baburin, Lopez, O'Donnell, Daly and Li so Henry probably gets a downfloat to Wall tomorrow.

EnPassant

Tim Harding wrote: »

Yes, excellent result for Diana. I thought she was a Bray/Greystones player?

Shane Melaugh did well also.

Thanks for the "spoiler" tip; might use that for later rounds. Unfortunately I shall be away for the second half but there should already be some critical pairings from tomorrow or Monday.

It looks as if today will finish with wins for Baburin, Lopez, O'Donnell, Daly and Li so Henry probably gets a downfloat to Wall tomorrow.

Shane was the Elm Mount player I was referring to!

Looks like you may be right about the results - although Fox seems to have missed a perpetual against Lopez on move 75. Time trouble seems to have had a big effect today.

Tim Harding

EnPassant wrote: »

Shane was the Elm Mount player I was referring to!

Looks like you may be right about the results - although Fox seems to have missed a perpetual against Lopez on move 75. Time trouble seems to have had a big effect today.

I guess that it was move 76 they both missed: 75...Rxf2+ was obvious but after 76 Kg1 Black needs to see 76...Rg2 because 76...Rc2 loses to 77 Rxe7+ followed by Bxd5+.

So Alex nearly let Tony off after all. After White missed 70 Qa7 Black started to get counterplay. And 75 Bc2 was necessary according to the engine, but the win is not easy, maybe not possible, in the queen ending following 75 Bc2 Rxc2 76 Rxe7+ etc.

***
The British Championships also started today. There won't be critical pairings there until midweek.
Check out this miniature:
https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/british-chess-championship-2017/1/1/5

cdeb

The link to round 2 is wrong on the ICU website - actual link is here.

Tim Harding

cdeb wrote: »

The link to round 2 is wrong on the ICU website - actual link is here.

Or try https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/irish-championship-2017/2/1/1

But for the past half hour the boards seem to have frozen.

L1m1tless

Internet seams to be down in the hotel. The boards from the weekender are not working either.

cdeb

Ah yes. There's a note on chess24 that there won't be any live coverage today at all, but normal service to resume tomorrow. A pity.

L1m1tless

Wasn't an internet problem. A live band set up near the playing room so they had to move. The weekender games were broadcast as usual.

zeitnot

L1m1tless wrote: »

Wasn't an internet problem. A live band set up near the playing room so they had to move. The weekender games were broadcast as usual.

Happened last year as well (round 1). Something to put on the checklist when a venue is being booked, perhaps.

sodacat11

L1m1tless wrote: »

Wasn't an internet problem. A live band set up near the playing room so they had to move. The weekender games were broadcast as usual.

LOL You couldn't make it up. I wonder who the band were? The Clash perhaps?

EnPassant

Any results?

L1m1tless

http://www.icu.ie/sm/irish2017/index.html

Tim Harding

L1m1tless wrote: »

http://www.icu.ie/sm/irish2017/index.html

Thanks for that. It looks like we didn't miss much excitement.

sodacat11

Well done the ICU for announcing the dates of next year's championship so far in advance and also for choosing a venue outside Dublin city centre !!

Tim Harding

Was it a late start today or another case of frozen live boards?

Meanwhile you can watch David Fitzsimons in action in the British Championships:

He has 2.5/3 and is Black today against GM John Emms.

reunion

Tim Harding wrote: »

Was it a late start today or another case of frozen live boards?

Meanwhile you can watch David Fitzsimons in action in the British Championships:

He has 2.5/3 and is Black today against GM John Emms.

I'm guessing there is a board freeze. I checked the games about 30 minutes ago and it's the same positions right now. Or else everyone is taking quite long on their current move and are going sub 20 minutes in time.

reunion

reunion wrote: »

I'm guessing there is a board freeze. I checked the games about 30 minutes ago and it's the same positions right now. Or else everyone is taking quite long on their current move and are going sub 20 minutes in time.

I guess my internet/the chess24 app bugged. Seems to be working fine now.