Property price register shows I paid more than my neighbours

April 73

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

No I would not not expect that illegal activity is a likely explanation.

I would expect that the most likely explanation is that someone typed the wrong figures in to the website.

You said earlier in the thread that propertypriceregister is showing your house at the full price you paid. Is this correct. It should not be showing the full price you paid.

The second most likely scenario is that your house is not the same as the neighbours. Either you are a 4 bed and they are a 3 bed or you have a garage or an extended kitchen and they don't.

The third most likely scenario for a difference in prices displayed is that you are comparing the actual register with the other website and not realising that one shows net and the other shows gross despite it being explained to you.

Hell it's more likely that the builders made a structural flaw in the building that left the house irreparably crooked (and so your neighbour got a discount) than the idea that your neighbours paid 40,000 cash to a developer to avoid stamp duty.

I agree with this. The most likely explanation for the largest discrepancy is because your house was registered at the full price including vat and the other house was registered as excluding vat. The Property Price Register relies on humans to be factually correct when inputting data - which doesn't always happen.
This is mostly likely the explanation if the difference equates to the vat.

In a new-build development there is often a mix of prices for what look like similar houses. A larger garden, a south facing garden, the end of a row, a bigger driveway - all of these things usually impact on prices. I have seen "builder's mates" or employees get the pick of sites on a new development but not discounts of ten of thousands of euro.

For what it's worth I don't think you were robbed. If you allow yourself to think that it will destroy your happiness about the new house. One house price had vat included & one didn't - the simplest explanation is often the right one.

davo10

Op it is quite possible you paid a lot more than your neighbours.

A developer may put houses on the market at €X but as interest builds and demand grows, the asking price can increase significantly.

Buying a house is a very personal choice and probably the largest and most important purchase of your lifetime. As such, you the buyer have to weigh up the asking price and consider whether it is worth it. Before you knew what you neighbour paid, you obviously thought the house is worth the price you offered, nothing has changed.

In a couple of months you can check the price register again, houses in the development may sell for more than you paid and you may think you got a good deal, albeit not quite as good a deal as your neighbours who bought before you.

Developers can ask any price they want, it's up to you whether you pay it.

BBMcQ

Did you apply VAT to the cheaper price and does it end up being the price you paid? End of discussion if so. Probably a clerical error.

mcneil

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

It wouldnt be nice to think that the very first thing I done I was mislead or someone saw me coming.

Welcome to the property market in ireland You where screwed and thats just the be all of it. It happens but when you come to sell your house, youll be wanting the same estate agent to screw the buyer of your house so you can get more. And again, its just the way it is im afraid.

bbari

As per PPR, my neighbour paid €43K less than mine but infact they didn't. Both are new build and we both bought at the same time. Its just the way either my solicitor / Revenue put the figures on the website.

e.g. My house value is entered as an including vat amount but it says VAT exclusive V Neighbours house value is entered correctly (excluding VAT).

The price differential is the VAT at 13.50%.

To see if the value is entered including/excluding vat - if the figure is a round figure i.e. €400,000 then its including VAT but figures like €352,422.89 would usually be an excluding vat amount (Not saying its 100% correct way but works for me). You can't trust the (Excluding VAT: Yes/No) on the PPR as its not correct for sure.

karenalot

The only website you should be looking at is https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

Click into your house and under sale information you should see the words Vat Exclusive. This should always say 'Yes' for new builds. It should say 'No' for second hand houses.

It sounds like your house was submitted including Vat and the neighbours were not. As other posters have said the site is largely reliant on humans to input the data and time and time again I have seen figures and addresses entered incorrectly.

robindch

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

[...] the house next door to me sold 10 days before for 38k less than the asking price [...] Has anyone got any info on this as I feel I have been screwed big time

In February 2007, my flat was guided at EUR690k and for family-related reasons, had to hold off until September when it went onto the market, guiding EUR525k. Where it stayed for two years without attracting a single offer, so I took it off again. Back on in 2014 and eventually sold it for for EUR415k. Another flat in the same block, identical to mine save slightly less good nick, sold for EUR360k last year.

You picks your place, you does your sums, you pays your money and you live with it.

Addle

Is it not foolish to think that everyone in an estate pays the same amount for a house?
Some might get a discount for paying cash early on, or buying multiple properties or maybe in lieu of work done.
Some might pay more for a better position/garden.
Someone might just pay more because they don't negotiate as well/for as long.

AlanG

It is quite possible that while the sales went through within a few weeks of each other the other parties paid their deposits at a time when the market was lower. Also they may have had an agreement to buy a house elsewhere from the builder and agreed to transfer if it suited all parties.

76544567

OP.
Wlecome to the lesson that the price asked for is not always the price paid. Even with new builds, which a lot of people forget and dont even attempt to bargain. Though id say the opportunity to bargain is limited since the beginning of this year.

Gandalph

Could have been bought off plan or the developer could have been in some sort of agreement with the landowner which is quite common. I wouldn't look too much into it, if the demand was there as you said, the variance is too high. You're also positive that your house was constructed in the same phase? Just because they are right next to you or across the street doesn't always mean this is the case.

youcancallmeal

Car99 wrote: »

Maybe a little bit of part payment in cash by the other buyers cut down the stamp duty due😆

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

HeidiHeidi

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

Not in the slightest.

But there was an awful lot of that being done back in the heady days when stamp duty went up to 9% :eek:

CIARAN_BOYLE

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

Exactly. illegal. Hence my disbelief that it happened.

CruelCoin

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Because Im a FTB and not from the area so I feel maybe I was fooled here. Also I was lead to believe that these houses were in great demand. Which is fairly evident on site. They are continuing to build and sold someone a house almost 40k cheaper than mine 10 days prior.

Any private seller has the right to change prices how they see fit (sales excluding).

Looks to me you didn't haggle or investigate enough.

Sleeper12

MactheKnife90 wrote:

Thank you everyone. Ill find it hard to sleep tonight.

Sometimes the builder sells houses cheaper to business friends. Also very possible is an investor bought several houses at a discount.
Try put it out of your mind and enjoy your new home. There's nothing you can do about it now so don't be upsetting yourself.

ongarboy

Addle wrote: »

Is it not foolish to think that everyone in an estate pays the same amount for a house?
Some might get a discount for paying cash early on, or buying multiple properties or maybe in lieu of work done.
Some might pay more for a better position/garden.
Someone might just pay more because they don't negotiate as well/for as long.

Agreed! There is a launch of new homes across from me and identical houses and garden sizes are being priced differently based on whether they are south/east/west facing. Other variables like end of terrace, side access to back garden, bay windows or additional ensuite/storage can influence different prices in seemingly identical properties as well.

Sleeper12

youcancallmeal wrote:

I don't get what you mean by this? Do you not just agree a price for the house and then pay stamp duty of 1% on the base price(-13%). Are you saying they would agree with the vendor that they would say the price is 40k less than asking if anyone asks but really they also paid that 40k in cash to lower the stamp duty. Is that even legal?

It's called paying under the counter. I'm not suggesting that it happened here and it's very illegal.
Pay 40k cash or more. Buyer pays less vat and stamp duty & builder has cash that he didn't have to pay tax on

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote:

Exactly. illegal. Hence my disbelief that it happened.

It happens on a daily basis in some businesses. I'm in plumbing and almost every day someone will say what's your best cash price or can you do better on the price for cash. All my clients get vat receipts. It's very hard to compete with the black economy. It's killing Irelands recovery imo

blackwhite

MactheKnife90 wrote: »

Yes it says both houses are VAT exclusive and mine is listed at the full price I paid and the other at 38k cheaper

Is yours listed at the full amount that you actually paid (i.e. which would include VAT)?

In that case it sounds like there's a mistake on the listing for your house.

MactheKnife90

blackwhite wrote: »

Is yours listed at the full amount that you actually paid (i.e. which would include VAT)?

In that case it sounds like there's a mistake on the listing for your house.

Yes it is I think I have put the issue to bed now. Some houses were listed inc Vat and others without. The '38k neighbour' paid 15k less and I suspect cash may or may not have been involved. I dont mind either way Im very happy with my house. Ill make the most of it.

Good luck to all in the big bad property market. It can be a daunting old place. I say that as someone who doesnt find much things daunting. Its a different story when large sums of money are involved though Ive learned that much ha

Thanks everyone for the help.

Sleeper12

MactheKnife90 wrote:

Yes it is I think I have put the issue to bed now. Some houses were listed inc Vat and others without. The '38k neighbour' paid 15k less and I suspect cash may or may not have been involved. I dont mind either way Im very happy with my house. Ill make the most of it.

MactheKnife90 wrote:

Good luck to all in the big bad property market. It can be a daunting old place. I say that as someone who doesnt find much things daunting. Its a different story when large sums of money are involved though Ive learned that much ha

MactheKnife90 wrote:

Thanks everyone for the help.

Glad to see you are happier about it. Congratulations on the house.:)