New bus lanes for Dublin City Centre by August

hatrickpatrick

Chuchote wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying there should be no exceptions. What people including myself are saying is that the exceptions should be exceptions, and driving into town shouldn't be the norm.

The NTA and the executive of DCC aren't talking about exceptions, that's exactly my problem. Like so many issues in Irish governance, they're using sledgehammers where they should be using a scalpel. We see this all the time with so many other things in Ireland (Head shops? Ban all psychoactive substances. Voicemail hacking? Ban everyone from remote access. Anti social behaviour? Make everyone go home at 2.30 instead of dealing with the troublemakers and letting everyone else live their lives).

I have absolutely no confidence that this instance will be any different.

I hear you, brother! Public transport is also ludicrously expensive; this is because, like many public services in Ireland, it's badly underfunded. After all, you can buy a carnet of 10 bus tickets in Paris for €14 and use each ticket for an hour on any and all transilien (in-the-city-of-Paris, which is quite an area) public transport except the RER (suburban trains). Dublin's (and other Irish cities') enormous and constantly rising transport fees, and Ireland's constant underfunding of the public-service essentials of transport, education and health… oh, I'll stop…

And my point is, forcing people to use only public transport before this issue has been rectified (as well as the issues of capacity and frequency) is incredibly unfair. It's like telling people that they're no longer allowed to use non-HD televisions at all, even if HD service is more expensive and not yet available everywhere in the country. Or when they banned incandescent lightbulbs before halogens were widely available, thus condemning people to CFLs while the industry caught up.

My point is, not inconveniencing the public should be any government's #1 priority, and in this case, that means that the egg must come before the chicken - make public transport as convenient and cost effective as private transport before deliberately making private transport hellish to use.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

It's all very well people saying "ban all cars/traffic from the city centre and get the Luas ,bus get on a bike ect. But that's not feasible.
Delivery people have to be allowed to make deliveries,

Of course delivery vans, etc. will still have access to the city, just as they do to all largely pedestrianised cities!

Mr.Frame wrote: »

many many people from the outskirts of the city need to use a car to get to work. Taxis need to be allowed to drop passengers off at various destinations.

No they don't nothing stopping them from driving to one of the many car parks at Dart and Luas stations or close to bus routes and taking public transport in, as would be the norm for most European cities.

Of course this particular plan still allows cars to drive into the city to access the car parks, so the point doesn't really stand anyway.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Taxis need to be allowed to drop passengers off at various destinations.

Taxis can use the bus lanes and will continue to do so under this plan.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I heard it is proposed to ban cars from Bachelors Quay, a daft idea, it might look good on paper but the reality is different , it is daft.

Not really proposed, pretty much guaranteed to go ahead one way or another, with maybe some minor changes.

Given how long the Luas is and how often it will cross O'Connell Bridge (traffic on the quays stopped every 90 seconds) there really is no avoiding this.

Tell me, why do you think you and 1,000 other drivers are more important then the 10,000 people in the bus lane next to you and the 10,000 people in the Luas in front of you and the 600 cyclists next too you?

The greater good and all that.

bk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The NTA and the executive of DCC aren't talking about exceptions, that's exactly my problem.

Have you actually looked at this plan?!

Exceptions aren't needed, because cars, delivery vans, etc. will continue to have full access to the city center. They just won't be able to drive right through the center of the city and may need to take alternative routes around. But they will still be able to get to anywhere in the city, it might just take them a little longer.

punisher5112

I honestly can't see it fully working as I said before there is no enforcement.

Private cars are using contra flow systems in place already and normal bus lanes daily without issue.

Spanish Eyes

Let's wait and see. It's a step in the right direction IMV.

You'd never know it might just work!

But in any event, LUAS Cross City demands some sort of a solution now.

ANPR is critical at LUAS junctions too. Maybe it will be incorporated into all junctions anyway.

I'm also looking forward to wider footpaths. Pedestrians are an important feature of moving about the core city, but at the moment OCB and Westmoreland Street are just heaving.

bk

punisher5112 wrote: »

I honestly can't see it fully working as I said before there is no enforcement.

Private cars are using contra flow systems in place already and normal bus lanes daily without issue.

Will some cars still sneak true, of course.

But you know what, most people are honest, law abiding citizens and they won't want to break the law and having a chat with a Garda and penalty points, etc.

Sure, some people won't give a **** and will just go for it, but they will be in the minority. All it will take is the Gardai standing there for a few days handing out tickets to ram the idea home to the majority of people that it isn't worth the risk.

And to be honest, given how vital this intersection will be to the smooth operation of the Luas Cross City, I suspect that beyond a few weeks grace, it will quickly become a zero tolerance area and that we will end up with red light cameras and ANPR.

BTW It is interesting to note that the 2016 NTA canal count is in. Cars entering the canal are down again this year, a 16% drop since 2006. Walking, cycling are up again and have been trending up substantially over the last 10 years, walking jumped 10% in just one year and cycling is up 150% versus 2006! Clearly the message is getting through and the shift from car to public transport, walking and cycling continues at pace.

Mr.Frame

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Taxi's? Well that's a different story, do we really need dozens of single occupant taxi's driving around the city centre hawking for business or forming long/illegal ranks in the age of mobile taxi apps?

Oh how ironic!
Not too long ago people were complaining there wasnt enough taxis , now we have people complaining theres too many!
The reason taxis are forming "illegal" ranks is because have taken away many ranks in recent times and will not provide badly needed new ones.
btw not everyone uses taxi apps or wants to.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

Of course delivery vans, etc. will still have access to the city, just as they do to all largely pedestrianised cities!

That remains to be seen.

bk wrote: »

No they don't nothing stopping them from driving to one of the many car parks at Dart and Luas stations or close to bus routes and taking public transport in, as would be the norm for most European cities.

Have you seen the car parks at Dart/ Luas stations at present ? Already full to excess.
You cannot compare Dublin to other Euro cities, most Euro cities have undergrounds/meteo/tube ect and dont rely on buses as much as Dublin does.
Not comparing like with like.

bk wrote: »

Of course this particular plan still allows cars to drive into the city to access the car parks, so the point doesn't really stand anyway.

Not necessarily, as some roads/areas will prohibit cars.

bk wrote: »

Taxis can use the bus lanes and will continue to do so under this plan.

Some bus lanes in the city prohibit taxis from using them, this could apply to the new proposals as well. Nothings certain.

bk wrote: »

Tell me, why do you think you and 1,000 other drivers are more important then the 10,000 people in the bus lane next to you and the 10,000 people in the Luas in front of you and the 600 cyclists next too you?

The greater good and all that.

Me??
There are more than 1000 taxis in Dublin who are (when it suits the NTA and DCC ) part of the NTA.
Taxis are an integral part of the transportation system in Dublin.
Taxi drivers are THE ONLY group who pay monies into the NTA , and get nothing in return be it monetary subsidies or more ranks, they get nothing.
Yet DCC wants to make it more difficult for taxis.
It is also proposed to ban taxis from accessing College Green and not allowing them to turn right onto Eden Quay,yet buses will be allowed to do both.

magicbastarder

Mr.Frame wrote: »

That remains to be seen.

it remains to be seen whether delivery vans will have access? you honestly believe they're going to remove the ability for shops to function?

grafton street is a pedestrianised shopping area, but you have been on it in the morning, have you?

lucernarian

Mr.Frame wrote: »

That remains to be seen.





Have you seen the car parks at Dart/ Luas stations at present ? Already full to excess.
You cannot compare Dublin to other Euro cities, most Euro cities have undergrounds/meteo/tube ect and dont rely on buses as much as Dublin does.
Not comparing like with like.



Not necessarily, as some roads/areas will prohibit cars.





Some bus lanes in the city prohibit taxis from using them, this could apply to the new proposals as well. Nothings certain.







Me??
There are more than 1000 taxis in Dublin who are (when it suits the NTA and DCC ) part of the NTA.
Taxis are an integral part of the transportation system in Dublin.
Taxi drivers are THE ONLY group who pay monies into the NTA , and get nothing in return be it monetary subsidies or more ranks, they get nothing.
Yet DCC wants to make it more difficult for taxis.
It is also proposed to ban taxis from accessing College Green and not allowing them to turn right onto Eden Quay,yet buses will be allowed to do both.

Life is honestly too short to do little line by line points.

I'll try to make it brief. I don't think DCC want to make it difficult for taxis, as they're afraid of the drivers if anything. No bus shelters on busy inner city Dublin streets, even near Trinity where there's no shops to inconvenience. Wonder what lobby was behind that.

If they did want to make life difficult, I'd give them my support for the most part. Whatever happened in the 90s is of no relevance and anyway it was taxi driver union-like representative groups who complained of how many people got licences after deregulation.

Taxis are becoming a menace in terms of bus lane congestion and the abused right to ply for trade.

bk

lucernarian wrote: »

No bus shelters on busy inner city Dublin streets, even near Trinity where there's no shops to inconvenience. Wonder what lobby was behind that.

Actually it is due to disagreements between DCC and Dublin Bus about who puts up the bus shelters and who gets the revenue from advertising on them.

Outside the city center, DB puts them up and gets the ad revenue. But inside the city center, DCC has I believe an exclusive contract with JCDecaux for nstreet advertising due to Dublin Bikes.

Though fear of taxi drivers is definitely a reason why Dublin Bus and NTA have been slow to introduce regular late night bus services that you would expect in any European capital city.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

Though fear of taxi drivers is definitely a reason why Dublin Bus and NTA have been slow to introduce regular late night bus services that you would expect in any European capital city.

Have you evidence to back up that statement?

monument

Fearmongering in the Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/warning-of-inner-city-traffic-chaos-if-cars-banned-from-quays-1.2985342

And it's been pushed too by apparent urbanists https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1376271762414595&id=159663910742059 who also objected to the original Liffey Cycle Route plan.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Have you evidence to back up that statement?

So you as a Taxi driver wouldn't go out on the streets in protest if Dublin Bus introduced a proper 24/7 bus service, with normal pick up and drop off points and normal fares at night..... sure.

cgcsb

Times and Independent are against this sighting 'local residents' and 'unnamed councillors'. Same tired old mantra, if you want balanced and well researched reporting you pretty much just have the Dublin Inquirer. The rest are just tabloids with so called reporters making up an on the spot uneducated opinion after a quick google.

Charles Babbage

bk wrote: »

BTW It is interesting to note that the 2016 NTA canal count is in. Cars entering the canal are down again this year, a 16% drop since 2006. Walking, cycling are up again and have been trending up substantially over the last 10 years, walking jumped 10% in just one year and cycling is up 150% versus 2006! Clearly the message is getting through and the shift from car to public transport, walking and cycling continues at pace.

So the plan is to force us back into the 19th century?

magicbastarder

yeah; isn't it great?

eeguy

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So the plan is to force us back into the 19th century?

It's to force you out of your private car. Or at least make it so difficult for you to get anywhere during peak hours that it's not worth it.

Cookie_Monster

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So the plan is to force us back into the 19th century?

was walking only invented in the 19th c?

That aside, clearly its aimed at creating a more socially and environmentally sustainable (not to mention efficient use of road space) city transport system.

Tenzor07

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So the plan is to force us back into the 19th century?

"We" are already back in the 19th century as the Internal combustion engine is an invention of the 1800's!

punisher5112

New buses should have to be hybrid and also all taxis from now on. Or even better electric if possible.

Nothing stopping them to be honest.

If you want to commute into city allow fully electric vehicles and on the m50 put in a car pool lane.

hmmm

cgcsb wrote: »

'local residents' and 'unnamed councillors'.

"Local residents and councillors" want traffic-free, non-overlooked idyllic country cottages within 5 minutes walking distance of Grafton Street. That's why planners have to look at the wider needs of a city, and not just the residents directly affected, so I'm not sure where the newspapers are coming at on this one.

Sam Russell

monument wrote: »

Fearmongering in the Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/warning-of-inner-city-traffic-chaos-if-cars-banned-from-quays-1.2985342

In the Times article, they cite a 550m length of the Quays being diverted by a route of 2.7km. I have taken 20 mins to travel that 550M and passed by many pedestrians and countless bikes. I think, if the diversion worked, it cannot take longer, and I doubt I would even be on the Quays if I knew a better route or could park and ride.

bk

punisher5112 wrote: »

New buses should have to be hybrid and also all taxis from now on. Or even better electric if possible.

Nothing stopping them to be honest.

If you want to commute into city allow fully electric vehicles and on the m50 put in a car pool lane.

In fairness, the Prius is very popular with many Taxi drivers and there are even a few Leafs (full EV's) kicking around. It can safe a taxi driver a lot of money on fuel, making it well worth their while.

If you go to Amsterdam and Copenhagen, you will see many Tesla Model S Taxis, great car, but I'm not sure how those guys car afford that car, they most be making a killing.

Economically hybrid buses also makes a lot of sense, being fuel savings to be made. However the issue of who pays for them remains.

Interesting to note however that the latest buses are actually strinkingly clean for what they are. All new DB and BE buses bought since 2014 use Euro 6 engines.

But here is the surprising bit, a 2017 DB bus releases less then half the amount of NOX then a 2017 Volkswagen Golf sitting next to it!!!!!

No I don't mean taking into account the number of passengers, I mean an empty DB bus with just the driver, versus a Golf with just the driver. The Golf is producing more then twice the levels of NOX!!!

Now put 80 passengers in that bus and the bus is producing more then 160 times less NOX per passenger then the Diesel car beside!!!

It turns out that the regulations for trucks and buses are WAY stricter then for cars, which were massively watered down by the Germans.

Unlike cars, buses and trucks actually most meet much stricter emission standards and unlike cars, they are actually tested on the road in the real world (thus harder to cheat).

And independent testing by the same group who revealed the Volkswagen cheating, found that yes, buses and trucks are within 1% of their stated emissions.

So those new buses are actually surprisingly clean, MUCH cleaner then the car sitting next to them.

They should still go Hybrid, for even more savings. However lots of buses on our streets and less Diesel cars would actually result in a big reduction in NOX and CO2.

magicbastarder

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So the plan is to force us back into the 19th century?

i think you'll need to explain your comment, as people don't seem to be taking it seriously.

MrMorooka

bk wrote: »

Sure, some people won't give a **** and will just go for it, but they will be in the minority. All it will take is the Gardai standing there for a few days handing out tickets to ram the idea home to the majority of people that it isn't worth the risk.

I saw a garda car make the illegal left turn from Hume St and down the bus-only contraflow on SSG East yesterday.

ED E

punisher5112 wrote: »

Or even better electric if possible.

Nothing stopping them to be honest.

On the electric front reliability in the eCars FCP network is still leaving a lot to be desired. If we want a fleet of working EVs outside the ESB we'll need an SLA on chargers and a commitment on rates.

magicbastarder

MrMorooka wrote: »

I saw a garda car make the illegal left turn from Hume St and down the bus-only contraflow on SSG East yesterday.

if a garda car is responding to a call - which may not need the full blues and twos - i don't see an issue with this sort of behaviour, if the alternative is them possibly taking five minutes longer to follow the ROTR.

bk

MrMorooka wrote: »

I saw a garda car make the illegal left turn from Hume St and down the bus-only contraflow on SSG East yesterday.

The Rules of The Road don't apply to Gardai on duty. So it wasn't an "illegal" left turn.

MrMorooka

bk wrote: »

The Rules of The Road don't apply to Gardai on duty

I didn't know that.

bk

MrMorooka wrote: »

I didn't know that.

To be pedantic, I should have said that the Road Traffic Act doesn't apply to Gardai, Ambulance and Fire Brigade. For very obvious reasons.

The ROTR aren't actually law, just human readable guidelines based on the RTA:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/23/enacted/en/html

LeinsterDub

bk wrote: »

To be pedantic, I should have said that the Road Traffic Act doesn't apply to Gardai, Ambulance and Fire Brigade. For very obvious reasons.

The ROTR aren't actually law, just human readable guidelines based on the RTA:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/23/enacted/en/html

BK in lawyers aren't human insult shocker

bk

LeinsterDub wrote: »

BK in lawyers aren't human insult shocker

:D:D

Capt'n Midnight

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So the plan is to force us back into the 19th century?

Great 19th century username

Looking at the rail network we had back in then that wouldn't be all that bad
(Red for trams , Blue for heavy rail)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin_1922-23_Map_Suburbs_MatureTrams_wFaresTimes_Trains_EarlyBus_Canals_pubv2.jpg

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

So you as a Taxi driver wouldn't go out on the streets in protest if Dublin Bus introduced a proper 24/7 bus service, with normal pick up and drop off points and normal fares at night..... sure.

Bk Your exact quote was "Though fear of taxi drivers is definitely a reason why Dublin Bus and NTA have been slow to introduce regular late night bus services..."

I asked had you any evidence to back this up and you didn't do so.
Making wild completely untrue false comments is quite frankly disingenuous.

Capt'n Midnight

Chuchote wrote: »

Wouldn't necessarily put all my faith in Google Maps: it once sent me a quarter-mile into a dodgy (I was told by residents) area to find a train station when there was actually a station in London City Airport.

Try openstreetmap. The dodgy area's aren't as well mapped.

Capt'n Midnight

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Taxis need to be allowed to drop passengers off at various destinations.

LOL at the time way back when taxi drivers offered to take extra passengers. The discount they were offering to share a taxi with complete strangers was derisory.

Capt'n Midnight

monument wrote: »

Blanch can be a nightmare at Christmas, Liffey Valley can be a congested mess a lot of the time and that's my memory of Swords too.

Yeah, it's so much easier finding parking in town at Christmas :P

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Yeah, it's so much easier finding parking in town at Christmas :P

Maybe I was just lucky in town or unlucky in Blanch but my experience is going into town to Jervis and Ilac was slow but still a little faster than Blanch.

Johnboner

Just get a motorbike, Jesus. You prefer to ride bicycles and take the buses with junkies and screaming kids than using a motorbike. Just get a bike and leave everyone else to their misery while you fly past them at the speed of light, no matter the traffic conditions, construction or accidents. If you like suffering then take a bicycle, car or public transport.

lucernarian

Johnboner wrote: »

Just get a motorbike, Jesus. You prefer to ride bicycles and take the buses with junkies and screaming kids than using a motorbike. Just get a bike and leave everyone else to their misery while you fly past them at the speed of light, no matter the traffic conditions, construction or accidents. If you like suffering then take a bicycle, car or public transport.

I've heard many things, but cycling is a form of suffering?! The rest of that is a fair opinion I suppose, but the only way you could fly past anyone is by breaking the law or at least going against the rules of the road in most cases.

magicbastarder

Johnboner wrote: »

Just get a motorbike, Jesus. You prefer to ride bicycles and take the buses with junkies and screaming kids than using a motorbike. Just get a bike and leave everyone else to their misery while you fly past them at the speed of light, no matter the traffic conditions, construction or accidents. If you like suffering then take a bicycle, car or public transport.

you are ross o'carroll kelly and I claim my €10.

magicbastarder

monument wrote: »

Maybe I was just lucky in town or unlucky in Blanch but my experience is going into town to Jervis and Ilac was slow but still a little faster than Blanch.

about ten or fifteen years ago, someone from DCC was on the radio at christmas to discuss whatever traffic plan was then being mooted. could have been keegan, may have been before he was the person they'd trot out for this?
anyway, before they got started, the presenter read out a text from someone who had spent two hours stuck on the quays on the friday, which was a christmas eve, trying to get into town for last minute shopping, and there was a 'well, what are you going to say about *that*?' tone from either the text or the presenter.
god bless the response; it was along the lines of 'you want me to apologise to someone who drove into town the last shopping day before christmas and got stuck in traffic? what did they expect? it's their own bloody fault, i am *not* going to apologise to them.'

not that this helps the debate above, just thought i'd share it.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Bk Your exact quote was "Though fear of taxi drivers is definitely a reason why Dublin Bus and NTA have been slow to introduce regular late night bus services..."

I asked had you any evidence to back this up and you didn't do so.
Making wild completely untrue false comments is quite frankly disingenuous.

I can't offer a source as it was told to me by someone involved in one of the organisations involved in this decision, I won't say who or which organisation for obvious reasons.

Of course I'm just some random guy on the internet, so you are completely free to take it or leave it, shrug.

However I will point out that I've seen other well informed people say the same on this forum, so it does seem to be well known in certain circles and I don't think it would surprise anyone who has been on this forum for a long time and following public transport planning in Dublin.

I also notice that you didn't answer my questions, about would you as a taxi driver and would other taxi drivers protest if 24/7 bus services were introduced. I think we both well know the answer to that question.

I do think late night, regular bus services will eventually be introduced. But I think the feeling in planning circles was that it was more important to get Luas Cross City up and running and these new bus lanes done first and bedded in.

They are playing softly softly with the taxi drivers for now due to the disruption of the Luas works in the city center. But once up and running for a few months, I suspect they will want to ban taxis from the tram tracks on College Green, so they won't want two fights with taxi drivers at the same time.

newacc2015

The €3 charge on the M50 IMO is a reason for a lot of traffic in the city. It is often quicker to drive through town and have to pay no toll, than on the M50. I think DCC needs to draw circle around a certain part of Dublin and create a congestion zone. If you enter the congestion zone and come out the other side of it within less than an hour, you are commuting across the city to avoid the M50 toll. Charge them €5/6. There needs to be a charge for people commuting across the city via the City Centre.

Idbatterim

The €3 charge on the M50 IMO is a reason for a lot of traffic in the city. It is often quicker to drive through town and have to pay no toll, than on the M50. I think DCC needs to draw circle around a certain part of Dublin and create a congestion zone. If you enter the congestion zone and come out the other side of it within less than an hour, you are commuting across the city to avoid the M50 toll. Charge them €5/6. There needs to be a charge for people commuting across the city via the City Centre.

yeah if its a light traffic time, I will go through town and I live a minute drive from M50 in ballinteer, you can half the distance taken and ditch the toll going through town

Zebra3

magicbastarder wrote: »

about ten or fifteen years ago, someone from DCC was on the radio at christmas to discuss whatever traffic plan was then being mooted. could have been keegan, may have been before he was the person they'd trot out for this?
anyway, before they got started, the presenter read out a text from someone who had spent two hours stuck on the quays on the friday, which was a christmas eve, trying to get into town for last minute shopping, and there was a 'well, what are you going to say about *that*?' tone from either the text or the presenter.
god bless the response; it was along the lines of 'you want me to apologise to someone who drove into town the last shopping day before christmas and got stuck in traffic? what did they expect? it's their own bloody fault, i am *not* going to apologise to them.'

not that this helps the debate above, just thought i'd share it.

If it had been a councillor instead of an unelected official, there'd have been apologies all round.

Sometimes democracy doesn't work.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

I can't offer a source as it was told to me by someone involved in one of the organisations involved in this decision, I won't say who or which organisation for obvious reasons.

No, please do say who the "organisation" is, as I am sure it will be news to many a taxi driver and various associations.

bk wrote: »

Of course I'm just some random guy on the internet, so you are completely free to take it or leave it, shrug.

That you are and yes shrug is the only option for such a ridiculous comment.

bk wrote: »

However I will point out that I've seen other well informed people say the same on this forum, so it does seem to be well known in certain circles and I don't think it would surprise anyone who has been on this forum for a long time and following public transport planning in Dublin..

Oh do tell? Who are these "well informed people", I'm intrigued.
I have seen many on this forum make unsubstantiated wild comments about taxi drivers, all of which were untrue and those that made the comments couldn't back up their comments,whatsoever, but "it was definitely true".

bk wrote: »

I also notice that you didn't answer my questions, about would you as a taxi driver and would other taxi drivers protest if 24/7 bus services were introduced. I think we both well know the answer to that question.

Again you are making wild sweeping comments which are disingenuous.

The answer to your question is NO , why would taxi drivers protest at this?
Any decision by Dublin Bus is Dublin Buses decision.
The REAL reason DB wont do a 24 hr service is to do with the fact that it is not financially viable.
Even the night link service has been curtailed in recent times because some of the routes are loss making .
So you bringing taxi drivers into the equation and assuming (you know what assume makes you out to be) they would protest is quite simply wrong.

bk wrote: »

They are playing softly softly with the taxi drivers for now due to the disruption of the Luas works in the city center. But once up and running for a few months, I suspect they will want to ban taxis from the tram tracks on College Green, so they won't want two fights with taxi drivers at the same time.

So you know for a fact "they" are playing softly softly with taxi drivers? or are you just some guy on the internet who thinks this.
There is a proposal to ban taxis from College Green, which will I am sure be challenged by taxi drivers and businesses alike.

lucernarian

Some ill-informed nonsense there. For starters, the nitelinks are not a typical PSO service and go through the normal licensing by the NTA. govt funding from the NTA is needed to provide regular routes running on a 24 hour basis.

Speaking of commercial routes, the creative "plying for trade" loophole makes it very easy for taxis to drive in advance of Airlink and Aircoach services to offer their services at marked bus stops to Dublin Airport

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

The answer to your question is NO , why would taxi drivers protest at this?
Any decision by Dublin Bus is Dublin Buses decision.
The REAL reason DB wont do a 24 hr service is to do with the fact that it is not financially viable.
Even the night link service has been curtailed in recent times because some of the routes are loss making .
So you bringing taxi drivers into the equation and assuming (you know what assume makes you out to be) they would protest is quite simply wrong.

I've been on this forum for almost 20 years and I also frequently read the Irish Taxi Drivers forum and I and everyone reading this thread knows perfectly well that Taxi Drivers will be up in arms and out protesting if regular DB late night bus services were put in place.

NiteLink is a purely commercial service, it receives no subsidy. It is also a pretty poor service, very expensive, only runs a few nights, very few departures, no pickup's in bound.

What I'm talking about is a proper late night bus service, similar to what London Bus operate. Of course such a service would be a subsidised PSO service, so it would be very different from Nitelink:

- Standard fares
- More or less normal routes
- Pickups at all bus stops
- More regular schedule, etc.

The obvious first route to try this on is the 16 to the airport. This is the route that DB and the NTA have been discussing this idea on along with two others.

Of course their are going to be protests from taxi drivers if the 16 goes 24/7.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

So you know for a fact "they" are playing softly softly with taxi drivers? or are you just some guy on the internet who thinks this.
There is a proposal to ban taxis from College Green, which will I am sure be challenged by taxi drivers and businesses alike.

Exactly, the original plan for College Green was to also ban taxis from the route. Buses and Trams only. The Taxi Drivers started complaining straight away (I can easily link you to the threads on the Irish Taxi forum if you like) and DCC/NTA reversed that decision and are now allowing Taxi's on that route per the latest plan. Thus the softly softly approach with Taxi drivers.

I guess what will actually happen, is they will leave the Taxis there for 6 to 12 months and it will be an absolute disaster. Trams and buses will be massively delayed by Taxis crawling along College Green, trying to pick people up. Just like DB buses are horribly delayed by Taxis crawling along Georges Street every night now.

The NTA/DCC will say look at all those Taxis causing problems, we need to ban them and by then they will have full support of the public and businesses to do it.

But as I say that is down the line, for the moment they are playing softly softly with taxis.