New bus lanes for Dublin City Centre by August

prinzeugen

suicide_circus wrote: »

When the luas starts crossing the river, the real fun will begin

Indeed.. Ordering trams that are longer than O'Connell bridge was not the smartest move.

I predict gridlock.

punisher5112

Priority traffic light systems should be also put in place for public transport.

Journey times are way too high on public transport and also cut the amount of bus stops.

lucernarian

bk wrote: »

And what Blanchardstown, etc. don't exist?

Or Amazon and thousands of other sites with online delivery?

Or if you have ever been on a bus you will see people clutching bags full of clothes and household items they have bought in town.

Again less then 20% of people who shop in Dublin City Center get there by car. The other 80% some how manage it :rolleyes:

With all due respect to the points about Blanchardstown, that is a disaster of planning in itself. Utterly car-dependent, and some of the bus stops don't even have shelters.

This forum and commentary on public transport in general is ridiculously skewed towards the needs of journeys to and from Dublin city centre.

Making suburbs even more attractive to motorists than Dublin city centre will only move the problems elsewhere. Heaven knows Fungal County Council and its Ray Burke era predecessor have enough of a motorist-first mentality as it was and is.

magicbastarder

prinzeugen wrote: »

Indeed.. Ordering trams that are longer than O'Connell bridge was not the smartest move.

I predict gridlock.

source? a bit of googling claims the current longest tram in service is 43m, and that o'connell bridge spans 45m.

Commotion Ocean

bk wrote: »

take one of the buses which will be speeding along these new bus priority roads

It won't be "speeding" along anywhere with all the cyclists blocking the bus lane thinking they're Lance Armstrong.

The bus lanes should be tracks that the wheels can sit on with a 2metre dip between the tracks to stop cyclists and car drivers using it.

lucernarian

magicbastarder wrote: »

source? a bit of googling claims the current longest tram in service is 43m, and that o'connell bridge spans 45m.

Don't have one to hand but there's an order in progress for 50 metre (54.6 metre trams - thanks Cython) trams.

cython

lucernarian wrote: »

Don't have one to hand but there's an order in progress for 50 metre trams.

54.6 metre trams

cgcsb

Some mysteries:

The previously mooted 2 way bus lane on Parliament St isn't included for some reason??

The plan also commits to some new cycling facilities on the north quays. Has the two way liffey cycle route been quietly scrapped?

With college green closed to east-west bus movements diverted bus routes will still need to turn left from bachelors walk onto O'Connell st. And be held up in the mixed traffic lane while a much smaller number of buses continue onto Eden quay's DOUBLE BUS LANE???

If liffey cycle route goes ahead, traffic will be diverted around Blackball place, Brunswick St and church st. Back to the quays. What driver in their right mind would seek to access arnotts car park via the quays, stoneybatter and back to the quays again, if that happens they might as well ban cars entirely from bachelors walk.

Chuchote

punisher5112 wrote: »

Priority traffic light systems should be also put in place for public transport.

Yes.

Journey times are way too high on public transport and also cut the amount of bus stops.

Nope. Speaking for the old and decrepit, it's not a good idea to have fewer bus stops. What would be an idea would be using buses like other countries, with people going in the front and coming out the side, and with grown-up queuing so people file on to the bus in an orderly way (queuing is getting more orderly lately, I notice).

punisher5112

Chuchote wrote: »

Yes.



Nope. Speaking for the old and decrepit, it's not a good idea to have fewer bus stops. What would be an idea would be using buses like other countries, with people going in the front and coming out the side, and with grown-up queuing so people file on to the bus in an orderly way (queuing is getting more orderly lately, I notice).

I don't mean in centre but I mean the stops that are 50 meters apart in places.

There are some crazy spots.

Chuchote

punisher5112 wrote: »

I don't mean in centre but I mean the stops that are 50 meters apart in places.

There are some crazy spots.

50 metres is a long way to hobble on a zimmer. And it doesn't particularly matter if people get on and off fast and use transport cards. The problem is that the bus stops, then you have two people manoevring giant buggies out the front past passengers standing beside the driver and others waiting to get off, when they should be able to get out the back with the ramp lowered, and the bus could take off immediately.

punisher5112

Chuchote wrote: »

50 metres is a long way to hobble on a zimmer. And it doesn't particularly matter if people get on and off fast and use transport cards. The problem is that the bus stops, then you have two people manoevring giant buggies out the front past passengers standing beside the driver and others waiting to get off, when they should be able to get out the back with the ramp lowered, and the bus could take off immediately.

Oh no you didn't just mention buggies. By god I am sick to death with them.

They all want on with them and will not fold them.

Like seriously 2 or more waiting at same stop and neither will fold then could in lots of cases have one on already.

Its time for education to be put on the commuter also to help speed up the process.

IE 222

When is College Green set to close. Would it not be better to do all this together and allow more time for better planning. I agree with removing cars but some people need to use the city to get to other destinations. This rushed plan is only shifting the problems elsewhere.

Are we not getting carried away somewhat with bus lanes as well. Some are unnecessary and create more problems than solve. I think Patrick St up to Christchurch would move a lot smoother for both bus and car if removed as 85% of buses want to turn right and move into outside Lane before the bus lane ends blocking traffic wanting to get into the inside Lane to turn left onto Main St or straight onto Winetavern st.

Opening bus lanes on the city centre entry pinch points till 7.30am rather than 7am would give for much more free flowing and reduce the gridlock till after 8am when most of the school traffic is going to begin. Many of these areas such as Doyles and Hearts corner, Harold's Cross Camden Street, Dorset st ect. are the cause of delays to both private and public traffic a lot of which that isn't travelling to the city centre is been effected from 7am due to single file queuing. The bulk of morning rush hour buses are only beginning routes out in the suburbs between 7 and 8am so why the need to have lanes free 45mins or so before they arrive.

Is there any potential in taking away the one way system from the Quays and creating bidirectional flow on the south side for public and cycling transit whilst leaving the north Quays for private rather than shutting down entire routings.

punisher5112

IE 222 wrote: »

When is College Green set to close. Would it not be better to do all this together and allow more time for better planning. I agree with removing cars but some people need to use the city to get to other destinations. This rushed plan is only shifting the problems elsewhere.

Are we not getting carried away somewhat with bus lanes as well. Some are unnecessary and create more problems than solve. I think Patrick St up to Christchurch would move a lot smoother for both bus and car if removed as 85% of buses want to turn right and move into outside Lane before the bus lane ends blocking wanting to get into the inside Lane to turn left onto Main St or straight onto Winetavern st.

Opening bus lanes on the city centre entry pinch points till 7.30am rather than 7am would give for much more free flowing and reduce the gridlock till post 8am. Many of these areas such as Doyles and Hearts corner, Harold's Cross Camden Street are blocked by 6:55am due to single file queuing at lights.

Is there any potential in taking away the one way system from the Quays and creating bidirectional flow on the south side for public and cycling transit whilst leaving the north Quays for private rather than shutting down entire routings.

No as the whole point is to get people out of their cars.

It is mad sitting in traffic going nowhere when buses and bikes sail past.

SC024

bk wrote: »

Shrug, Remember you are the traffic congestion!

Yes, traffic congestion will get worse, shrug. Get out of your car and get on a bike or take one of the buses which will be speeding along these new bus priority roads.

The numbers are clear, even today, before these changes, the buses on the quays are carrying 10 times as many people as the cars are. Hell there are even almost as many cyclists as there are cars! And that is without even any decent cycling infrastructure in place.

It is clear that if you take the cars off these roads and give more space and priority over to the buses and bikes, these roads will carry vastly more people then is possible by car.

& What about people who need cars / small vans for work tradesmen etc etc.

bk

prinzeugen wrote: »

But you will still need a car to go to the sorting office/depot to collect all these boxes that they could not deliver because you were in work..

ParcelWizard will deliver to where ever you want. Family, friends, neighbours, work. They will even hold items for up to one month so that they can all be delivered together when you are off.

SC024 wrote: »

& What about people who need cars / small vans for work tradesmen etc etc.

Sigh, for like the billionth time, cars will still have access to the city, it will just be more limited and they won't be able to drive right through the city.

I'll ask what do tradesmen, etc. do in other European cities which are highly pedestrianised?

It isn't like this is the first city to ever do it, it is very common all across Europe.

punisher5112

Exemptions could be in place for trades people and those working on maintenance etc.

I wonder will it send more onto m50.

bk

Deedsie wrote: »

Have you a car?

Yes, some of the comments here are quiet confusing. People on the one hand are saying that there is no way they can go shopping unless they have a car or pick up a package. But at the same time are completely ignoring the fact that if they have a car they can much more easily drive to one of the many shopping centers outside the city.

In fact I think you would be pretty insane to drive into the city to shop, dealing with all the congestion and paying high parking charges. When it would be much easier to drive to your local shopping center and get free parking.

monument

bk wrote: »

Yes, some of the comments here are quiet confusing. People on the one hand are saying that there is no way they can go shopping unless they have a car or pick up a package. But at the same time are completely ignoring the fact that if they have a car they can much more easily drive to one of the many shopping centers outside the city.

In fact I think you would be pretty insane to drive into the city to shop, dealing with all the congestion and paying high parking charges. When it would be much easier to drive to your local shopping center and get free parking.

Depening on where you live / work / driving to anyway, the city centre can be an easy option. Lists of people close to the city centre have cars, even if a lower percentage of the total population.

Blanch can be a nightmare at Christmas, Liffey Valley can be a congested mess a lot of the time and that's my memory of Swords too.

I actually dislike shopping centres more when I'm in a car than when cycling -- at least you get to the door when cycling.

IE 222

punisher5112 wrote: »

No as the whole point is to get people out of their cars.

It is mad sitting in traffic going nowhere when buses and bikes sail past.

As much as I agree with getting people out of cars I think it's a bit shortsighted to think every journey is city centre bound and can be replaced with buses and bikes. You need to look beyond the Quays and be realistic that not everyone is going to convert.

Buses and bikes aren't going to suit everyone and cars are required for a number of people.

Not putting in alternative routings is only going to block these "faster buses" further out.

magicbastarder

the interesting thing is ikea deliberately build in places where you've really got to drive to...

Tenzor07

Simple solution is just to fill in the River Liffey and construct a dual carriageway to connect the Chapelizod By-pass.. And sure didn't the Dutch do that back in the 1970's, will bring more nice private cars in to keep BT's and Arnotts going!

prinzeugen

Deedsie wrote: »

Have you a car?

Not at the moment but will give the neighbour a few €€ to give me a lift if I need one.

There is a problem with people thinking that any people using cars in Dublin are commuting to work or going shopping in the city centre when in reality probably 40% are going through the city to get from say Rathmines to work in Swords or something.

bk

prinzeugen wrote: »

Not at the moment but will give the neighbour a few €€ to give me a lift if I need one.

There is a problem with people thinking that any people using cars in Dublin are commuting to work or going shopping in the city centre when in reality probably 40% are going through the city to get from say Rathmines to work in Swords or something.

Which is insane and exactly what DCC/NTA will be shutting down. There is simply no room in the city roads for such through traffic. At least people driving into the city to shop or work have some argument. But there is absolutely no argument for this through driving, this is what the M50 is there for.

magicbastarder

that may be what the M50 is for, but i have colleagues i have not seen in months because they're sick of the M50 and the snarl-ups, so work from home all the time.
granted, that may be what the company wants, but suggesting the M50 as an alternative when it's at twice nominal capacity is not the way forward.

prinzeugen

M50.. Ireland's biggest carpark. I would say a fair few are trying to get to the port tunnel as well to avoid the M50.

bk

magicbastarder wrote: »

that may be what the M50 is for, but i have colleagues i have not seen in months because they're sick of the M50 and the snarl-ups, so work from home all the time.
granted, that may be what the company wants, but suggesting the M50 as an alternative when it's at twice nominal capacity is not the way forward.

Working from home, well that is brilliant for everyone! Less congestion and less impact on the environment and less time wasted commuting for those employees. Sounds like a complete win to me.

Yes the M50 isn't great either. But you can't tell me that going through the city at rush hour is a better choice!! Specially with the Luas works going on.

BTW just checked good maps, for Rathfarnham to Swords, the M50 is 12 minutes faster then going through town.

prinzeugen

bk wrote: »

Working from home, well that is brilliant for everyone! Less congestion and less impact on the environment and less time wasted commuting for those employees. Sounds like a complete win to me.

Yes the M50 isn't great either. But you can't tell me that going through the city at rush hour is a better choice!! Specially with the Luas works going on.

BTW just checked good maps, for Rathfarnham to Swords, the M50 is 12 minutes faster then going through town.

If I was in Rathfarnham I would prob use the M50.

But I said Rathmines...

magicbastarder

bk wrote: »

Working from home, well that is brilliant for everyone! Less congestion and less impact on the environment and less time wasted commuting for those employees. Sounds like a complete win to me.

yeah, it's great for those who have that option; who i suspect are in a considerable minority.

Chivito550

prinzeugen wrote: »

If I was in Rathfarnham I would prob use the M50.

But I said Rathmines...

Once the LUAS is done, you can get a LUAS from Ranelagh or Beechwood to O'Connell's Street, then a bus going against the traffic.