Cyclist wants to turn right from cycle lane.

shootermacg

Hi all
Just wondering what the story is with turning right? I approach my turn off, which goes from a single lane to two lanes with lights. I want to get in the right lane to turn, but am currently in the cycle lane? I've been making the hand signal to turn right for about 5 to ten seconds, traffic is still whizzing past me (50Km/h limit).

Does a car have to give way in this instance? Or do I need to get off my bike and take the pedestrian crossing at the lights? I realize what the safe answer is, but what's the legal answer?

07Lapierre

Sounds like you need to be more assertive and move out of the bike lane into the left lane. Legally, indicating does not give you right of way.

I find if you indicate that you want to turn right, cars wont allow you unless you begin to actually move to the right. If you don't they'll leave you there.

amcalester

07Lapierre wrote: »

Sounds like you need to be more assertive and move out of the bike lane into the left lane. Legally, indicating does not give you right of way.

I find if you indicate that you want to turn right, cars wont allow you unless you begin to actually move to the right. If you don't they'll leave you there.

Pretty much this.

At one particular point on my commute I have to cross from the cycle lane across two lanes to get to the turn right lane so I indicate right, look over my shoulder and start moving right. Once I start moving to the right cars slow down to let me over.

nordicb

I usually move out to the right lane indicating a good time beforehand and if it is safe to do, or nobody has to do extreme braking.

If not feeling safe, I use other means of crossing, hardly worth the risk!

Imnotthehulk

nordicb wrote: »

If not feeling safe, I use other means of crossing, hardly worth the risk!

This is where I'm at too. There are a few places on my journey home where I have to move from the cycle lane into a different one, and there are days when I don't feel comfortable doing it at all, at which point I get off the bike and use the pedestrian crossing to get across.

shootermacg

07Lapierre wrote: »

Legally, indicating does not give you right of way.

Surely Being ahead of traffic and indicating does in fact give you the right of way on a single lane, regardless of being in a cycle lane?

Wishbone Ash

shootermacg wrote: »

Surely Being ahead of traffic and indicating does in fact give you the right of way on a single lane, regardless of being in a cycle lane?

He means that indicating does not give you the right to move across to the next lane it is merely a display of intention.

(It's something that I see many female cyclists doing - sticking out their arm and moving around an obstacle such as a parked car without checking that it is safe to move out. Their logic being that they 'indicated' so all is well).

shootermacg

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

He means that indicating does not give you the right to move across to the next lane it is merely a display of intention.

(It's something that I see many female cyclists doing - sticking out their arm and moving around an obstacle such as a parked car without checking that it is safe to move out. Their logic being that they 'indicated' so all is well).

At this stage it's still a single lane.

07Lapierre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

(It's something that I see many female cyclists doing - sticking out their arm and moving around an obstacle such as a parked car without checking that it is safe to move out. Their logic being that they 'indicated' so all is well).

It's not unique to female cyclists...

07Lapierre

shootermacg wrote: »

Surely Being ahead of traffic and indicating does in fact give you the right of way on a single lane, regardless of being in a cycle lane?

No. You seem to be forgetting about the traffic coming towards you. You still have to wait until it is safe before turning right. When is it safe? When there's a gap in the oncoming traffic or the oncoming traffic is stopped etc.

Wishbone Ash

07Lapierre wrote: »

It's not unique to female cyclists...

Indeed, but it my experience, pro-rata, it's much more prevalent among female cyclists.

07Lapierre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Indeed, but it my experience, pro-rata, it's much more prevalent among female cyclists.

I tend to notice female cyclists more also!

John_Rambo

I find signalling and looking back at the traffic helps. Usually a driver will slow down and flash or give a little beep. Eye contact works.

Some don’t though. I did it once and a woman mouthed F**** O** and put the boot down!

eeeee

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

(It's something that I see many female cyclists doing - sticking out their arm and moving around an obstacle such as a parked car without checking that it is safe to move out. Their logic being that they 'indicated' so all is well).

Male cyclists do that in front of me every single day going through town.
It's neither unique to, nor more prevalent in female or male cyclists. There is absolutely no gender bias in my experience.

In response to the OP, I look for ages, aaages before the turn in case there's a handy break in traffic, then, again ages before, look,hand out and begin turning. If it's a fast road it helps to be going a good clip too in my experience.

07Lapierre

John_Rambo wrote: »

I find signalling and looking back at the traffic helps. Usually a driver will slow down and flash or give a little beep. Eye contact works.

When that happens i usually give a "thumbs up" as I move right.

ED E

Here's a rough example of a layout similar to what you're asking about(I think). Important to think ahead and leave the cycle lane when not going straight or left.

John_Rambo

07Lapierre wrote: »

When that happens i usually give a "thumbs up" as I move right.

Ah yeah... goes without saying!

shootermacg

In my case, I always indicate and give myself about 20, 30 metres to move out. Unfortunately its up hill, so I'll be lucky to be doing 20 /30kph.

I always look for the gap, but in a lot of cases the car while not being that much faster relatively, unless breaking the limit, just will not slow down. I can't rely on them seeing me, I've had cars accelerate to get past me, even though they are 20 meters away when I started indicating.

So again, I'm not looking for advice on how to ride a bike, I'm looking for advice on the legality of the situation.

Am I considered to be legally ahead of a car, while being in a cycle lane? I'm not talking about sudden erratic turns in front of cars, I'm talking about cars having to give way of a turning bike that is at least 10, 20 metres ahead of them.

Annie get your Run

John_Rambo wrote: »

I find signalling and looking back at the traffic helps. Usually a driver will slow down and flash or give a little beep. Eye contact works.

Some don’t though. I did it once and a woman mouthed F**** O** and put the boot down!

Fair play to your flexibility!!! I'd be off the bike if I tried to make eye contact with a driver to my right as I'm moving across a lane :eek:. I do as nee said too and start looking a good bit in advance, I'll usually give a thumbs up before I move across and it usually has the desired effect as a 'thanks for letting me through'.

For the OP, I can't answer to the legal position but to be honest I very much doubt it. As others have said indication is just an intent to move over, as you're moving into a lane that already has vehicles in it I doubt there's a right of way just because you're in front - I'd imagine the same goes for cars moving from one lane to another too.

shootermacg

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Fair play to your flexibility!!! I'd be off the bike if I tried to make eye contact with a driver to my right as I'm moving across a lane :eek:. I do as nee said too and start looking a good bit in advance, I'll usually give a thumbs up before I move across and it usually has the desired effect as a 'thanks for letting me through'.

For the OP, I can't answer to the legal position but to be honest I very much doubt it. As others have said indication is just an intent to move over, as you're moving into a lane that already has vehicles in it I doubt there's a right of way just because you're in front - I'd imagine the same goes for cars moving from one lane to another too.

Still in a single lane at this stage and I'm guessing that if I move out and a car blows me off the road, the car is in the wrong, like in pretty much any rear-end situation, unless I'm told different.

07Lapierre

shootermacg wrote: »

In my case, I always indicate and give myself about 20, 30 metres to move out. Unfortunately its up hill, so I'll be lucky to be doing 20 /30kph.

I always look for the gap, but in a lot of cases the car while not being that much faster relatively, unless breaking the limit, just will not slow down. I can't rely on them seeing me, I've had cars accelerate to get past me, even though they are 20 meters away when I started indicating.

So again, I'm not looking for advice on how to ride a bike, I'm looking for advice on the legality of the situation.

Am I considered to be legally ahead of a car, while being in a cycle lane? I'm not talking about sudden erratic turns in front of cars, I'm talking about cars having to give way of a turning bike that is at least 10, 20 metres ahead of them.

No your only ahead of other traffic (cyclists) in the cycle lane. To turn right, you must move into the left "Driving"Lane. you can only move into the Driving lane "when safe to do so". At least, that's my understanding of the legalities. As others have suggested..indicating, making eye contact, all make it "safe to do so".

average_runner

shootermacg wrote: »

Still in a single lane at this stage and I'm guessing that if I move out and a car blows me off the road, the car is in the wrong, like in pretty much any rear-end situation, unless I'm told different.

But you can only move lane when safe to do it, same for a car. A car can't just indicate and move in, they have to wait till its safe.

I will always let the cyclists out if I know they want to move lane

Thud

my favourite one of these:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3159123,-6.2049108,3a,75y,306.98h,80.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6gT1sXHlem_d3yg3uGegAg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

nordicb

The person changing lanes has no right of way to change lanes if the lane he/she is going to is occupied, regardless whether it is a roundabout or a normal road. A lot of it boils down to the feel of the road and the traffic flow, some manage to integrate well into a new lane and others just bluntly wedge in.

Parchment

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

(It's something that I see many female cyclists doing - sticking out their arm and moving around an obstacle such as a parked car without checking that it is safe to move out. Their logic being that they 'indicated' so all is well).

Did i actually just see this....?

robyntmorton

^ I'm hoping I didn't see it either!

Chuchote

amcalester wrote: »

so I indicate right, look over my shoulder and start moving right.

I do it the other way round: quick glance over the shoulder, if there's room, signal and move right.

OleRodrigo

As Nee says, the problem in this scenario is that it often goes hand in hand with fast moving traffic. An example in Dublin would be Patrick St in either direction - getting in lane to take a right into the Coombe or the other direction for turning towards Dame St - almost always dealing with speeding traffic. In fact towards Dame St is even harder as you have to move with fast traffic, execute an eyeball and signal whilst maintaining speed on a short ramp to ChristChurch.

Another one is Fairview in the direction of city center. Moving from the bus lane or cycle path across to the turn for Ballybough can be tricky for the very same reason, although usually not as fast as Patrick St.

John_Rambo

OleRodrigo wrote: »

As Nee says, the problem in this scenario is that it often goes hand in hand with fast moving traffic. An example in Dublin would be Patrick St in either direction - getting in lane to take a right into the Coombe or the other direction for turning towards Dame St - almost always dealing with speeding traffic. In fact towards Dame St is even harder as you have to move with fast traffic, execute an eyeball and signal whilst maintaining speed on a short ramp to ChristChurch.

Another one is Fairview in the direction of city center. Moving from the bus lane or cycle path across to the turn for Ballybough can be tricky for the very same reason, although usually not as fast as Patrick St.

Funny you mention that stretch. The AA proved itself to be completely out of touch when they lobbied for Fairview strands speed limit to be risen up to 80kph!!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-rejects-aa-s-speed-limit-increase-proposals-1.2878103

odyssey06

As a driver you really should be anticipating that a cyclist coming up to a parked car is going to come out into the driving lane to get around it and act accordingly ... I would always try to yield but yeah, if I'm not the closest car, and I see a cyclist maneuvering out without looking behind and I wince and say a little prayer (ps I also back off the next car...)

Lumen

Parchment wrote: »

Did i actually just see this....?

Please explain.