More penalty points for drivers!

Roadhawk

dodzy wrote: »

All the more reason why it will never happen as it could not possibly be policed. Pure nonsense.

Lets hope so anyway...

CiniO

I'm all for it by all means.
1.5m is reasonable minimum, except at crawling speed traffic jam conditions.

However I wonder how can they introduce penalty points offence for not leaving 1.5m distance when overtaking cyclist, when there isn't any law making such requirement.

I'd say they would first need to make it illegal to overtake cyclists without leaving 1.5m distance, and only then introduce penalty points offence for not obeying it.

TheChizler

CiniO wrote: »

However I wonder how can they introduce penalty points offence for not leaving 1.5m distance when overtaking cyclist, when there isn't any law making such requirement.

[oversimplified]The law basically says that the Minister can introduce points/fines for anything he wants. No need for an act of parliament for each offence.[/oversimplified]

CiniO

dodzy wrote: »

All the more reason why it will never happen as it could not possibly be policed. Pure nonsense.

It works in most countries - why not here....
It's scary to cycle on coutnry roads in Ireland.

CiniO

TheChizler wrote: »

The law basically says that the Minister can introduce points/fines for anything he wants. No need for an act of parliament for each offence.

I understand that.
But he can't introduce a fine/points for something that isn't an offence.
At the moment, overtaking a cyclist when leaving only 0.5m distance is not an offence.
So how can the points/fine be issued for that?

Roadhawk

RayCun wrote: »

There are on the spot fines for cycling offences.

There is licencing required for driving a car because of the inherent risk a car presents to everyone else on or near the road.

You've had this argument many times, you know this as well as I do. I don't see what you gain by a pretense of ignorance.

Yes and if it continues this way a motorist will be issued a fine and points for taking their eyes off the road after sneezing.

Having such a hefty sanction for passing less than 1.5 is scandalous. It couldn't possible be taken seriously.

Indricotherium

Roadhawk wrote: »

Yes and if it continues this way a motorist will be issued a fine and points for taking their eyes off the road after sneezing.

Having such a hefty sanction for passing less than 1.5 is scandalous. It couldn't possible be taken seriously.

I think what you're missing the essential imbalance in consequences in a car vs bike collision.

Stopping cars hitting cyclists is much more important than stopping cyclists brushing off cars in traffic, and so the penalties are (rightly) much more severe.

Full disclosure I am a cyclist, but I am also a motor enthusiast, so I feel I have a balanced view of the merits of both types of transport, and the needs of both types of road users.

Roadhawk

Indricotherium wrote: »

I think what you're missing the essential imbalance in consequences in a car vs bike collision.

Stopping cars hitting cyclists is much more important than stopping cyclists brushing off cars in traffic, and so the penalties are (rightly) much more severe.

Full disclosure I am a cyclist, but I am also a motor enthusiast, so I feel I have a balanced view of the merits of both types of transport, and the needs of both types of road users.

I am also a cyclist (up until last year) and motorist so i too understand the responsibilities and dangers of both. Im not missing anything at all...I know who comes off worse in an incident between a vehicle and cyclist. When cycling i know the dangers to be faced when entering the city. That wont change with the implementation of penalties such as the 1.5 rule. This will not stop motorists from being involved in accidents with cyclists. From what i see on a daily basis cyclists are more of a danger to themselves by neglecting their own safety and disobeying the laws designed to protect road users. Just because they may not kill someone when jumping a red does mean they can do it...

cajonlardo

Tropheus wrote: »

For an orangutan...

look up ape index. Normal span is your own height.

ebbsy

It's mostly the cyclists on the DCC bikes that are the danger. Headphones in, no helmets etc.

TheChizler

ebbsy wrote: »

It's mostly the cyclists on the DCC bikes that are the danger. Headphones in, no helmets etc.

To themselves (and that's debatable). This is about motorists responsibilities towards cyclists. Do what you want as far as I care as long as you're not endangering anyone else.

cajonlardo

Roadhawk wrote: »

I see this on a regular basis. Most of them say sorry and come back to fix the mirror if possible but it shouldn't happen in the first place.

YOU SEE THIS ON A REGULAR BASIS

roadhawk, you see an awful lot on a regular basis.

Stuff I haven't seen in almost 4 decades of driving including emergency, and several other high mileage and high pressure roles.

Never, once has a cyclist touched my mirrors. I've had the odd one tip of the vehicle but not as many as I've had other cars hit me !

People experiencing grief on a regular basis where other road users are not maybe need to have a long hard look at their own driving.

You remind me of a woman who told me cyclists keep slapping her car. Never , ever has a cyclist slapped my vehicle and I use the same roads she does.

doolox

Could it be that the cyclist sees a small defenseless woman in the car and feels free to bash her car but, on seeing a man in a car leaves well enough alone.

cajonlardo

doolox wrote: »

Could it be that the cyclist sees a small defenseless woman in the car and feels free to bash her car but, on seeing a man in a car leaves well enough alone.

Nope.

Try again. My "little" wife uses same roads without any issues, I have a sister who works in the same part of town and she has never experienced it. If it happens to a driver once or twice you could write it off to bullies.
If something is happening on a regular basis or "often" as roadhawk states, then you have to wonder what the driver is doing

Roadhawk

cajonlardo wrote: »

YOU SEE THIS ON A REGULAR BASIS

roadhawk, you see an awful lot on a regular basis.

Stuff I haven't seen in almost 4 decades of driving including emergency, and several other high mileage and high pressure roles.

Never, once has a cyclist touched my mirrors. I've had the odd one tip of the vehicle but not as many as I've had other cars hit me !

People experiencing grief on a regular basis where other road users are not maybe need to have a long hard look at their own driving.

You remind me of a woman who told me cyclists keep slapping her car. Never , ever has a cyclist slapped my vehicle and I use the same roads she does.

Im in the emergency services too but barely have half of the experience you have at 4 decades.

Let me correct myself on that one...mirror clipping is more of a rarity than a regular occurrence. If i had to put a number on it id say it happens once or twice a month. I also pointed out that most cyclists are apologetic and fix the mirror if possible. If you havent seen this in Dublin city then your're clearly not paying enough attention on the road.

I only ever get the odd cyclist slap my car when im stopped in traffic and go close to the kerb because I intend on turning left. When i role down the window to hear them give out i just tell them that i've taken the defensive position...that really makes them pop. Other than that the only other thing that annoys me is when they put their hand out to balance themselves on my car when in traffic...again this is only starting to happen in the last 2-3 years.

My driving styles are perfectly legal and safe to all. Ive never had as much as a "close call" on the road.

RayCun

Intending to turn left at some point in the future is not a good reason to be close to the kerb.

Skylinehead

cajonlardo wrote: »

look up ape index. Normal span is your own height.

That's two arms, not one.

cajonlardo

Skylinehead wrote: »

That's two arms, not one.

yeah, copped that later

jgorres

An example, where the distance was most probably less than 1.5 metres: https://cycliq.com/videos/no-margin-for-error

John_Rambo

I don't know. Lots of attitude on this thread... "I'll do it if..."

I've been leaving a 1.5 metre gap for years. It's easy. Calm down, Upskill or leave the car at home.

Alanstrainor

I'm for it. I cycle over 6000km a year on Dublin roads and the most common dangerous situation I am put in is the close pass. I doubt these passes are malicious; inattention or ignorance are at play for the most part I reckon. If it was even somewhat enforced it would improve safety immensely for cyclists.

Paulzx

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'm for it. I cycle over 6000km a year on Dublin roads and the most common dangerous situation I am put in is the close pass. I doubt these passes are malicious; inattention or ignorance are at play for the most part I reckon. If it was even somewhat enforced it would improve safety immensely for cyclists.

The problem is that anyone that is either stupid enough or a bad enough driver that they don't leave a proper distance between themselves and a cyclist is probably not going to be capable of judging a safe distance when it becomes a legal requirement.


I cycle and drive in the city so i see both sides as well.

The problems are arising from a cohort of dickheads both in cars and on bikes.

The main thing to remember as a cyclist is that no matter how much in the "right" you are it's of no consequence when you're driven over by the 79 bus. They can stick "he was in the right" on your gravestone

It drives me nuts when I'm cycling to watch some cyclists sailing through red lights and when I'm driving i despair at the aggressive behaviour of some motorists towards cyclists.

When you only partake in one of these modes of transports the anger towards the other is probably magnified

The Rape of Lucretia

Thats terrific. Great to see real action on poor driving, and the points system being extended. Hopefully plenty of more offences to be added and the points themselves ratcheted up. It was a long time coming but the effect it has had on driver behaviour is very impressive. This latest tweak is a good use of the process.

Rezident

Long overdue, some drivers stray so dangerously close to cyclists that this is needed.

Also, with all the cheap helmet cams now, it will be easy to capture. Some drivers are inches away from cyclists in areas like donnybrook where it is so narrow. It's ridiculously dangerous.

John_Rambo

Roadhawk wrote: »

Im in the emergency services too but barely have half of the experience you have at 4 decades.

Let me correct myself on that one...mirror clipping is more of a rarity than a regular occurrence. If i had to put a number on it id say it happens once or twice a month. I also pointed out that most cyclists are apologetic and fix the mirror if possible. If you havent seen this in Dublin city then your're clearly not paying enough attention on the road.

I only ever get the odd cyclist slap my car when im stopped in traffic and go close to the kerb because I intend on turning left. When i role down the window to hear them give out i just tell them that i've taken the defensive position...that really makes them pop. Other than that the only other thing that annoys me is when they put their hand out to balance themselves on my car when in traffic...again this is only starting to happen in the last 2-3 years.

My driving styles are perfectly legal and safe to all. Ive never had as much as a "close call" on the road.

Would you consider a few hours with a driving instructor? You're obviously doing something wrong with this many tips with other road users. (and these are the ones you admit to)

You could do with an attitude change along with a bit of growing up too. Maliciously blocking the road whilst stopped in traffic just because you've prepared a smart answer to make people "pop" is just immature.

I can only imagine the rest of the smug, spiteful cráp you come up with but won't admit.

cajonlardo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Would you consider a few hours with a driving instructor? You're obviously doing something wrong with this many tips with other road users. (and these are the ones you admit to)

You could do with an attitude change along with a bit of growing up too. Maliciously blocking the road whilst stopped in traffic just because you've prepared a smart answer to make people "pop" is just immature.

I can only imagine the rest of the smug, spiteful cráp you come up with but won't admit.

I wouldn't take Roadhawk seriously at all.

Look at his 1st line in the post you are replying to:

Roadhawk wrote: »

Im in the emergency services too but barely have half of the experience you have at 4 decades.

so, he is saying he has been professionally driving for aprx 20 years

Now look at the last line:

Roadhawk wrote: »

Ive never had as much as a "close call" on the road.

Any experienced Irish driver and road user KNOWS you cannot drive for near 20 years on Irish roads without a "close call" and any Emergency Services Driver will have several hair raising stories.
For some reason he has a big bee in his bonnet with cyclists - without ever( over any number of these threads ) saying what his problem actually is. If he has never had a close call then surely no cyclist has done anything dangerous in his experience?

Phil.x

Hopefully dirty diesel cars at least will be banned from the city centre, so I can start cycling to work again.

John_Rambo

cajonlardo wrote: »

For some reason he has a big bee in his bonnet with cyclists - without ever( over any number of these threads ) saying what his problem actually is. If he has never had a close call then surely no cyclist has done anything dangerous in his experience?

Yeah, thanks for the heads up, just looked at his post history. An entrenched online "activist". Seems he'll say anything to back himself up, including contradicting himself. Everything with a pinch of salt, but obviously a prime candidate for driver retraining.

Irish Steve

biko wrote: »

If you can slap their arse ..

Best idea I've seen in a cycling thread in a long time

ohnonotgmail

Rezident wrote: »

Long overdue, some drivers stray so dangerously close to cyclists that this is needed.

Also, with all the cheap helmet cams now, it will be easy to capture. Some drivers are inches away from cyclists in areas like donnybrook where it is so narrow. It's ridiculously dangerous.

the proposed law will not apply in areas that are 50KMH zones. I assume that includes donnybrook.