Youthreach Resource Vs Teaching

Flynn17

Hi, i have been working in Youthreach as a Resource Person for over 12 years now and recently there have been big changes in regards to the structure of the programme. Part time tutors have now been given teacher status which means they are now off 8 weeks during the Youthreach year, one week in October & February, an additional week at Easter, the whole month of June and one week in July. During this time off the Youthreach programme has to operate as normal with just the skeleton staff 3 Resource Persons and the Coordinator. Are any other Youthreach centres experiencing this same pressure?

CraftySue

I thought anyone with teaching status in Youthreach had the same holidays as mainstream teachers - ie June/July/August and midterms etc. Resource persons have a rougher deal - 35 days plus whatever the etb allow for midterms, which varies from regio to region.

Flynn17

Yes the teaching staff in our centre do get the same holidays as mainstream teachers however the teaching year does not fit the Youthreach year. During the mid-terms, June and July we are without key teaching staff while the programme has to run as normal. This can't be right? Why is it that Resource Persons who teach 20hrs each week & who are registered with the Teaching Council and have teaching qualifications not offered equal conditions as their colleagues?

Flynn17

Has anyone noticed the difference in wording on Resource Persons roles & responsibilities in the Operator Guidelines, it states up to a maximum of 20hrs DIRECT contact not CLASS contact which our original contract states. Why is there a difference? My understanding of DIRECT contact is one to one work, supervision, behaviour management, residential work, substitution, mentoring, restorative work and career guidance. What are people's opinions on this?

xtralong

Flynn17 wrote: »

During the mid-terms, June and July we are without key teaching staff while the programme has to run as normal. This can't be right?

It's not right but that's what happens. Teachers work 167 days, students have to be in 209 days. That leaves 42 days in the year when resource persons and co-ordinators pick up the slack while your teacher colleagues are on holidays.

Flynn17 wrote: »

Why is it that Resource Persons who teach 20hrs each week & who are registered with the Teaching Council and have teaching qualifications not offered equal conditions as their colleagues?

Resource persons have comparatively the worst terms and conditions in the education sector. Your 'teaching' is also not recognised as teaching, the whole thing is an absolute farce. If you're in the TUI you need to bring this up at every opportunity.

xtralong

Flynn17 wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the difference in wording on Resource Persons roles & responsibilities in the Operator Guidelines, it states up to a maximum of 20hrs DIRECT contact not CLASS contact which our original contract states. Why is there a difference? My understanding of DIRECT contact is one to one work, supervision, behaviour management, residential work, substitution, mentoring, restorative work and career guidance. What are people's opinions on this?

It is my understanding that your 20 hours (actually 21 with Had. Road) should be made up of class contact and/or those duties you mentioned as direct contact, not 21 class contact plus those other duties. You also have 16 admin hours where you contribute to the day to day management of the centre and should not be in 'contact' with students. Circular 12/03 and the Operator Guidelines do not clearly define the roles and responsibilities of a resource person clearly enough in my opinion and lead to ambiguity and exploitation of resource persons. As said before, the worst terms and conditions in the education sector.

ustazjoseph

The TUI have recently sent a survey to branches aimed at colleagues in the non standard FET roles. Eg resource workers pt time teachers in adult , basic ed, BTET tutors etc . Can't post a link here but search it out .have a word with your local rep . It's Important to gather this information .

Flynn17

The survey you mentioned is not for the following:
Post-primary/Further Education College teacher
VTOS Coordinators and teachers
Teachers in Prison Education Units
Adult Education Organisers
Adult Literacy Organisers
Community Education Facilitators
Youthreach Coordinators, Resource Persons and Teachers
Adult Education Guidance Counsellors.
The survey should be given to members who are paid as post-primary teachers in respect of some of their teaching hours, but not paid as post-primary teachers for other of their teaching hours. For example, if a member is paid as a teacher in respect of his/her teaching on VTOS-funded courses, but has additional hours teaching on BTEI-funded courses (which are not paid at qualified post-primary teacher rates), such a member is requested to fill in the survey.

Certain ETBs have, without the approval of the parties to the Teachers’ Conciliation, established posts with various new titles – such as “Resource Tutor” (outside Youthreach), “Adult Education Resource Tutor”, “Development Officer”, “Quality Assurance Officer” “Literacy Coordinator” etc. In many cases, ETBs have applied the Youthreach Resource Persons scale and terms of employment to such posts. The survey should be given to members in such posts.

Biorra

Good evening,
I just had an interesting conversation with a friend who works in youthreach with me (we are both qualified teachers). The back ground is this, in our centre, we have the following:
1. Qualified teacher
2. Unqualified teacher
3. Resource persons - all resource people are registered as teachers with B.As & PGDE (secondary/some adult ed.)
I have just been made aware of our etb issuing letters to BTEI tutors informing them that the conversion process is now underway (this is presumably the May 2010 agreement with TUI/DES) - anyway, within this letter, it was outlined that tutors will now be registered under:
1. Qualified teacher
2. Unqualified teacher
3. Adult Education worker (with terms aligned to the of a yiuthreach resource person)
Also stipulated in this letter is that people who are not teachers but who opt to be recognized as non-qualified teachers can choose to.....
I would not have believed this if I did not see letter with my own eyes (signed by a CE!) - what the hell is tui actually doing for resource people who are being treated like dirt! - obviously the March 2017 consultation in Athlone was their way of pacifying us - equal pay for equal work !!!???
Anyone know of something similar in other counties????/

Biorra

Apologies that should read May 2016 agreement with tui/des!

ustazjoseph

I've heard of this . It's part of the process of trying to regularise the position of btei tutors many of whom especially in the bigger colleges have the hours and duties of a full time worker but none of the conditions. This will make life a little better for some people. There are many others whose situation also needs improving. Continue to agitate. Tui will move when enough people make enough noise. Some branches are second level dominated but when enough people turn up and get on committees et the situation will improve. The whole FET sector is in a mess at the moment. New management systems. Directors with less qualification than the AEO s they manage . It's frustrating .

Biorra

ustazjoseph wrote: »

I've heard of this . It's part of the process of trying to regularise the position of btei tutors many of whom especially in the bigger colleges have the hours and duties of a full time worker but none of the conditions. This will make life a little better for some people. There are many others whose situation also needs improving. Continue to agitate. Tui will move when enough people make enough noise. Some branches are second level dominated but when enough people turn up and get on committees et the situation will improve. The whole FET sector is in a mess at the moment. New management systems. Directors with less qualification than the AEO s they manage . It's frustrating .

l will admit it is a good thing for people who have had very poor fixture of tenure for years but its frustrating for the ones who spend a fortune to become qualified, sacrifice personal time with family and are looked down upon in three tier structure. To be honest, it has been allowed go on to long - whats the point in becoming qualified if you can be unqualified with pretty much the same perks.
Within branches where secondary dominates, sometimes it is easier to find success looking for a hen's tooth!

CraftySue

Apparently in a lot of ETB's the only contracts which will be available in the BTEI, Youthreach and VTOS sectors in the future will be that of resource worker. Union really needs to step in more on this - a teaching role should have a teaching contract. If a resource worker contract is not recognised as teaching and is considered administrative - then resource workers should not be teaching classes.

ustazjoseph

The situation is frustrating.as the shotgun marriage of ETB s and old FAS beds down these issues seem to get neglected or worse accepted. We now have senior people in FET who are not teachers. We have well qualified AEOs reporting to much less qualified people. This will come up at the TUI congress in cork next week I hope. We need to maintain Union noise on this. In some branches colleagues don't really get the reality of FET work . In some cases I've heard people say " oh yeah resource " thinking it's like learning support in second level. Time and noise.

Flynn17

A work colleague of mine attended the annual congress in Cork and it's looking good for Youthreach Resource Persons & Coordinators. All motions put forward regarding Youthreach were passed! Motions put forward arguments that Resource Persons & Coordinators should also be classified as teachers & should be afforded the same working conditions as teachers. Huge progress I think!

CraftySue

Flynn17 wrote: »

A work colleague of mine attended the annual congress in Cork and it's looking good for Youthreach Resource Persons & Coordinators. All motions put forward regarding Youthreach were passed! Motions put forward arguments that Resource Persons & Coordinators should also be classified as teachers & should be afforded the same working conditions as teachers. Huge progress I think!

I'm not sure how- motions have passed for many years at congress, looking for resource workers to be afforded the same working conditions as teachers, yet it seems every year nothing has happened and another motion is passed.

Flynn17

Resource Person contracts are designed for Youthreach only and should not be used by any other programme within the ETB's. TUI should be made aware of this wherever happening. TUI are aware of this already & are working towards changing it.

Flynn17

CraftySue wrote: »

I'm not sure how- motions have passed for many years at congress, looking for resource workers to be afforded the same working conditions as teachers, yet it seems every year nothing has happened and another motion is passed.

Joanne Irwin (TUI President) was very vocal about this at congress & many other delegates spoke diligently on this issue too. Youthreach tutors & now BTEI tutors being granted teacher status has made our case so much stronger and that forms part of their arguments for parity.

xtralong

Flynn17 wrote: »

A work colleague of mine attended the annual congress in Cork and it's looking good for Youthreach Resource Persons & Coordinators. All motions put forward regarding Youthreach were passed! Motions put forward arguments that Resource Persons & Coordinators should also be classified as teachers & should be afforded the same working conditions as teachers. Huge progress I think!

I certainly wouldn't be getting your hopes up. Resolution no. 282, passed at Annual Congress last year, sought "the restructuring of Youthreach staff to align their terms and conditions of employment to those of teachers and principals in mainstream education". Over the course of the year there has been virtually zero progress on this. At the TUI Youthreach consultation in Athlone in March, the TUI vice-president Barry Williams described this as, quote, a "long-term project".

The TUI have also been unable to deliver on the incremental credit scheme for Youthreach Resource Persons and Youthreach Coordinators as promised in the May 2016 DES/TUI Agreement. The details of this were supposed to be finalised in Nov. 2016.

One of the major barriers to any progress, as alluded to by the TUI executive at the TUI Youthreach consultation in March, is the small cohort of resource persons/coordinators without qualifications and TC registration. The TUI are protecting the lowest common denominator at the expense of the majority of resource persons/coordinators who are qualified and deserve to have their teaching recognised.

CraftySue

"One of the major barriers to any progress, as alluded to by the TUI executive at the TUI Youthreach consultation in March, is the small cohort of resource persons/coordinators without qualifications and TC registration. The TUI are protecting the lowest common denominator at the expense of the majority of resource persons/coordinators who are qualified and deserve to have their teaching recognised."

This was mentioned at a few meetings we attended. It was also strongly inferred at a number of meetings to take a post primary teaching position if they came up, that even though we may take a hit initially, in the long term we would be better off financially. This does not inspire confidence and a number of long term resource workers, in my locality have done this.

There has also been very little information in regards the Youthreach review, but I have noticed in our area the word Youthreach is disappearing and been replaced by centre for further education and traning, in signs and documentation- just wondering if anyone else has noticed the same in their area.

xtralong

CraftySue wrote: »

It was also strongly inferred at a number of meetings to take a post primary teaching position if they came up, that even though we may take a hit initially, in the long term we would be better off financially. This does not inspire confidence and a number of long term resource workers, in my locality have done this.

Much easier said than done. From what I have seen it's been very hard for resource persons to move back into mainstream teaching. I don't think principals/interview boards have a very positive view of resource persons. Many are uninformed about what the role entails and you are considered out of the loop when it comes to teaching exam classes. I'd love to be proven wrong on this one.

CraftySue wrote: »

I have noticed in our area the word Youthreach is disappearing and been replaced by centre for further education and traning, in signs and documentation- just wondering if anyone else has noticed the same in their area.

Can't say I've noticed this in my area, although it's not a bad idea in my opinion. The word Youthreach tends to often have very negative connotations for employers and within the wider community.

ustazjoseph

The president was clear in her message to the minister. Colleagues who work in youthreach teach . It'll take a while but I think it'll improve !

xtralong

ustazjoseph wrote: »

The president was clear in her message to the minister. Colleagues who work in youthreach teach . It'll take a while but I think it'll improve !

I've read the TUI President's response to the Minister http://www.tui.ie/news-events/presidents-response-to-ministers-address-tui-annual-congress-.10494.html. She certainly seems to have a clear understanding of the issues and has articulated them well, but talk is cheap and in reality nothing is being done. Why not issue a directive stating that no resource persons or coordinators should participate in any 'teaching' duties until it is recognised as such? What about strike action? They haven't even been able to secure the incremental credit scheme promised in the May agreement. Useless!

ustazjoseph

In fairness , how much support would we get? Youthreach centres closed across the country , how much impact? How much sympathy ?

Nabidana

Please forgive my ignorance but do all those working in Youthreach hold a degree and a hDip?

I've been told not all do and that is why they are finding it difficult to obtain teaching status.

Is this correct?

xtralong

Nabidana wrote: »

Please forgive my ignorance but do all those working in Youthreach hold a degree and a hDip?

I've been told not all do and that is why they are finding it difficult to obtain teaching status.

Is this correct?

In my experience, the vast majority would have a degree as a minimum. A large proportion of these would have TC registration for the FE sector as prior to 2016 a teacher ed. qualification (e.g. HDip) wasn't a requirement for this sector. There would be probably be a minority of staff with a HDip (either post-primary or further ed.) and a smaller cohort again with no qualifications.

You're right, this is a major stumbling block when it comes to recognition of the teaching done by coordinators and resource persons. However, tutors in Youthreach have already been converted to teaching status and the qualifications profile of these staff would have been the same.

Surprisingly, there is no minimum qualifications required for Youthreach employees and teachers in Youthreach don't actually have to be registered with the Teaching Council, as section 30 of the Teaching Council Act only applies to recognised schools. The majority of tutors that I'm aware of who were converted to teachers have no HDip or teaching qualifications.

CraftySue

ustazjoseph wrote: »

In fairness , how much support would we get? Youthreach centres closed across the country , how much impact? How much sympathy ?

I wouldn't advocate a strike - but i do think the union could impose a directive stating that resource workers cease any teaching duties, and only maintain administrative duties, until we were considered analogous to teaching. I also think if it was aired how resource workers are misled and exploited it would receive a sympathtic ear from the public.
What annoys me, is how when asked to take a case of inequality, the union will say on which of the 9 grounds- yet they happily promote the issue of pay inequality for teachers. I believe there is a case on indirect discrimmination, but the union will not support that issue.
Regarding the amount of people holding teaching qualifications- we were told at a union meeting that the number was above 70%. Most advertisements have looked for a post primary qualification in the last 10years, so that number is growing. Istead of improving, the role of the resource worker has drastically declined in the last 6 years, more than people realise, and the union through their inaction has endorsed this.

xtralong

CraftySue wrote: »

i do think the union could impose a directive stating that resource workers cease any teaching duties, and only maintain administrative duties, until we were considered analogous to teaching.

I agree, this is the obvious action for the union to take if they are serious.

CraftySue wrote: »

Istead of improving, the role of the resource worker has drastically declined in the last 6 years, more than people realise, and the union through their inaction has endorsed this.

I believe resource persons have comparatively the worst terms and conditions in the education sector and they have gotten worse. Perhaps the upcoming review will be the catalyst for real reform. The union are happy to sit idly by until the review is complete.

Biorra

xtralong wrote: »

In my experience, the vast majority would have a degree as a minimum. A large proportion of these would have TC registration for the FE sector as prior to 2016 a teacher ed. qualification (e.g. HDip) wasn't a requirement for this sector. There would be probably be a minority of staff with a HDip (either post-primary or further ed.) and a smaller cohort again with no qualifications.

You're right, this is a major stumbling block when it comes to recognition of the teaching done by coordinators and resource persons. However, tutors in Youthreach have already been converted to teaching status and the qualifications profile of these staff would have been the same.

Surprisingly, there is no minimum qualifications required for Youthreach employees and teachers in Youthreach don't actually have to be registered with the Teaching Council, as section 30 of the Teaching Council Act only applies to recognised schools. The majority of tutors that I'm aware of who were converted to teachers have no HDip or teaching qualifications.

HERE'S SOMETHING INTERESTING - Circular Letter No. F49/04
Designation of Centres for Education under Education
Act,1998: http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/education/2004/F49.pdf
Also, when i applied for my first position in youthreach many moons ago now, i was asked if i was a member of the teaching council (TC) - on subsequent applications that l filled out, l was always asked to submit my TC number and the coordinator at one stage was required to submit TCs of every staff member in the centre to her line manager.

Biorra

xtralong wrote: »

I agree, this is the obvious action for the union to take if they are serious.



I believe resource persons have comparatively the worst terms and conditions in the education sector and they have gotten worse. Perhaps the upcoming review will be the catalyst for real reform. The union are happy to sit idly by until the review is complete.

i have also heard from a reliable source that this process maybe selective

Biorra

CraftySue wrote: »

I wouldn't advocate a strike - but i do think the union could impose a directive stating that resource workers cease any teaching duties, and only maintain administrative duties, until we were considered analogous to teaching. I also think if it was aired how resource workers are misled and exploited it would receive a sympathtic ear from the public.
What annoys me, is how when asked to take a case of inequality, the union will say on which of the 9 grounds- yet they happily promote the issue of pay inequality for teachers. I believe there is a case on indirect discrimmination, but the union will not support that issue.
Regarding the amount of people holding teaching qualifications- we were told at a union meeting that the number was above 70%. Most advertisements have looked for a post primary qualification in the last 10years, so that number is growing. Istead of improving, the role of the resource worker has drastically declined in the last 6 years, more than people realise, and the union through their inaction has endorsed this.

does anyone know exactly....
1. how many resource people/coordinators have/do not have a diploma/degree/certificate?
2. how many have a secondary level qualification?
3. how many have subsequent qualifications under the NFQ?
there is alot of he says/she says - is there anyway of actually getting this information?
Following the Athlone meeting, i was told that there is a significant number of people in youthreach with no formal qualification - but my question is WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DO??
in the past, i worked in an environment where a number of staff were unqualified.l was also reliably told that these people were asked to undertake a diploma/degree (of their choice) and the old VEC at the time would meet the costs of this.
They opted not to and were since awarded a non-qualified rate as a teacher. - l'm sorry this is not a knocking or a bashing contest because we're all divided enough on this issue but does anyone outside of our sector really understand the issues/pressures we work under. especially for new entrants!

Biorra

Nabidana wrote: »

Please forgive my ignorance but do all those working in Youthreach hold a degree and a hDip?

I've been told not all do and that is why they are finding it difficult to obtain teaching status.

Is this correct?

just on the issues of degrees/dips - many old VEC/ETBS were not paying staff the correct rates. Check your allowances to ensure that you are being paid for your degree.
i know of an individual who was being paid a diploma allowance that was significantly lower than there degree going back a number of years. When this was queried with appropriate circulars, they received monies owed.

CraftySue

Biorra wrote: »

does anyone know exactly....
1. how many resource people/coordinators have/do not have a diploma/degree/certificate?
2. how many have a secondary level qualification?
3. hkow many have subsequent qualifications under the NFQ?
there is alot of he says/she says - is there anyway of actually getting this information?
Following the Athlone meeting, i was told that there is a significant number of people in youthreach with no formal qualification - but my question is WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DO??
in the past, i worked in an environment where a number of staff were unqualified.l was also reliably told that these people were asked to undertake a diploma/degree (of their choice) and the old VEC at the time would meet the costs of this.
They opted not to and were since awarded a non-qualified rate as a teacher. - l'm sorry this is not a knocking or a bashing contest because we're all divided enough on this issue but does anyone outside of our sector really understand the issues/pressures we work under. especially for new entrants!

I know I have read documentation before stating over 70% had teaching qualifications. This was confirmed at a meeting with Colm Kelly(tui), as to exact numbers - TUI, should know them. I'd imagine the department of education should have more recent numbers and could make them available under freedom of information.

xtralong

Biorra wrote: »

does anyone know exactly....
1. how many resource people/coordinators have/do not have a diploma/degree/certificate?
2. how many have a secondary level qualification?
3. how many have subsequent qualifications under the NFQ?
there is alot of he says/she says - is there anyway of actually getting this information?
Following the Athlone meeting, i was told that there is a significant number of people in youthreach with no formal qualification - but my question is WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DO??
in the past, i worked in an environment where a number of staff were unqualified.l was also reliably told that these people were asked to undertake a diploma/degree (of their choice) and the old VEC at the time would meet the costs of this.
They opted not to and were since awarded a non-qualified rate as a teacher. - l'm sorry this is not a knocking or a bashing contest because we're all divided enough on this issue but does anyone outside of our sector really understand the issues/pressures we work under. especially for new entrants!

The following qualifications profile of Youthreach staff was given in a presentation on FET Professional Development at the NAYC conference in March:

Teaching/Training Qualification 71%
Subject/Vocational Qualification 74%


These stats are in response to a SOLAS survey of the FET workforce in 2015 prior to the development of the FET Professional Dev. Strategy 2017-2019.

mammabee

Looking at circular 27/17 for new entries as a resource person you will get 28,296 euro a year, no degree allowance, which equals to app. 544.15 per week. On the same circular the caretakers are starting on 527.69 as a new entry. That my friends is the value of the work we do as resource workers. And I bet every new recruit has qualifications! Take that to the unions and see what they say! It is sickening and insulting. The union who is meant to represent their members do nothing only take our very hard earned money and swiftly go on to ignore us! This should be a top priority for them. We are too quiet!!

Oh an for the record I am not saying the caretakers deserve less pay, I am just showing what all your years in college/university is worth to the etb's and the union!

xtralong

mammabee wrote: »

Looking at circular 27/17 for new entries as a resource person you will get 28,296 euro a year, no degree allowance, which equals to app. 544.15 per week. On the same circular the caretakers are starting on 527.69 as a new entry. That my friends is the value of the work we do as resource workers. And I bet every new recruit has qualifications! Take that to the unions and see what they say! It is sickening and insulting. The union who is meant to represent their members do nothing only take our very hard earned money and swiftly go on to ignore us! This should be a top priority for them. We are too quiet!!

Oh an for the record I am not saying the caretakers deserve less pay, I am just showing what all your years in college/university is worth to the etb's and the union!

The TUI are protecting the small minority of unqualified Youthreach Resource Persons at the expense of the rest. The staffing structure of Youthreach is a complete mess. Co-ordinators for small centres getting the same remuneration as centres up to 6 times the size. Resource persons 'supposed' to be part of centre management but working 42 days more and getting paid less than teachers. Teachers being employed on qualified and unqualified contracts. Some ETBs have even invented the position of Assistant Co-ordinator which is just a Resource Person post in disguise, same contract, same same salary. I'd imagine the TUI and the DES don't really want anything to do with it. Hopefully the upcoming review will highlight these issues and some major reform will take place.

mammabee

xtralong wrote: »

The TUI are protecting the small minority of unqualified Youthreach Resource Persons at the expense of the rest. The staffing structure of Youthreach is a complete mess. Co-ordinators for small centres getting the same remuneration as centres up to 6 times the size. Resource persons 'supposed' to be part of centre management but working 42 days more and getting paid less than teachers. Teachers being employed on qualified and unqualified contracts. Some ETBs have even invented the position of Assistant Co-ordinator which is just a Resource Person post in disguise, same contract, same same salary. I'd imagine the TUI and the DES don't really want anything to do with it. Hopefully the upcoming review will highlight these issues and some major reform will take place.

Well we have been told that we should not turn the review into a platform about our terms and conditions-by our coordinator! , so who knows really. We can only live in hope.

xtralong

mammabee wrote: »

Well we have been told that we should not turn the review into a platform about our terms and conditions-by our coordinator! , so who knows really. We can only live in hope.

Your coordinator is talking nonsense! It's a perfectly legitimate platform to express concerns about staffing terms and conditions. They directly affect the operation of the centre, student outcomes and the learning environment.

ustazjoseph

xtralong wrote: »

The TUI are protecting the small minority of unqualified Youthreach Resource Persons at the expense of the rest. The staffing structure of Youthreach is a complete mess. Co-ordinators for small centres getting the same remuneration as centres up to 6 times the size. Resource persons 'supposed' to be part of centre management but working 42 days more and getting paid less than teachers. Teachers being employed on qualified and unqualified contracts. Some ETBs have even invented the position of Assistant Co-ordinator which is just a Resource Person post in disguise, same contract, same same salary. I'd imagine the TUI and the DES don't really want anything to do with it. Hopefully the upcoming review will highlight these issues and some major reform will take place.

don't know if you were at congress in cork or read any of the motions passed? ?the message that " people who work in youthreach teach and should be treated as teachers " was made to the minister by the president. Motions related to this were passed. ETBs have been instructed to to stop inventing roles and positions . its been a mess but it is being addressed because enough people went to meetings and made enough noise. keep at it. these changes come slowly and need a lot of constant work.

xtralong

ustazjoseph wrote: »

don't know if you were at congress in cork or read any of the motions passed? ?the message that " people who work in youthreach teach and should be treated as teachers " was made to the minister by the president. Motions related to this were passed. ETBs have been instructed to to stop inventing roles and positions . its been a mess but it is being addressed because enough people went to meetings and made enough noise. keep at it. these changes come slowly and need a lot of constant work.

Yes, I drafted the Youthreach motions for my branch that were brought to congress and passed. All our issues are well covered in the motions and of course this is very promising. The issues were also very well articulated in the presidents speech to the minister. However, talk is cheap and now is the time for action. Nothing to stop the TUI issuing a directive instructing resource persons/coordinators not to engage in teaching duties until their teaching is recongnised as such. I don't necessarily agree that changes have to be this slow. The incremental credit scheme for resource persons and coordinators which was promised in the May 2016 TUI/DES agreement still hasn't materialised over a year later.

CraftySue

xtralong wrote: »

incremental credit scheme for resource persons and coordinators which was promised in the May 2016 TUI/DES agreement still hasn't materialised over a year later.

I contacted the union in Jan, in relation to this, was told that there were some outstanding issues but it was close to a conclusion, and to watch the website for an update. Yet here we are another year later, and nothing. We have had a number of motions passed at congress over the years, none have been resolved. Union members have helped with the wording of these motions, but later we were told even though they were passed at congress, nothing would happen as the wording was all wrong. I think at this stage we really need to see a strong signal from the union that some progress is been made- rather than perpetual false hope.

xtralong

CraftySue wrote: »

I think at this stage we really need to see a strong signal from the union that some progress is been made- rather than perpetual false hope.

Well said!!

19eighty4

ustazjoseph wrote: »

The TUI have recently sent a survey to branches aimed at colleagues in the non standard FET roles. Eg resource workers pt time teachers in adult , basic ed, BTET tutors etc . Can't post a link here but search it out .have a word with your local rep . It's Important to gather this information .

never heard a thing about this survey until now when i stumbled onto it...

mammabee

CraftySue wrote: »

I thought anyone with teaching status in Youthreach had the same holidays as mainstream teachers - ie June/July/August and midterms etc. Resource persons have a rougher deal - 35 days plus whatever the etb allow for midterms, which varies from regio to region.

At our youthreach resource are only given 35 days period. We have to come in a couple of days over midterms, xmas and easter and sit in an empty centre, sometimes alone because our coordinator says the centre has to be offically open! I kid you not. Any time taken off during these breaks are taken as annual leave. Yes it depends on the centre, actually it depends on the coordinator here. Not simple!

mrchuffy

mammabee wrote: »

Well we have been told that we should not turn the review into a platform about our terms and conditions-by our coordinator! , so who knows really. We can only live in hope.

Tell your coordinator to take a hike. They have no authority to tell you that... Also the YR review is being undertaken, after being put out to tender, by independent consultants. Their findings will then to be assessed, sanctioned and supported by a 24 person panel. There are no teachers or resource on this panel. There are no union members on this panel. Comprises of administrators, ctc and iacto people and 4 coordinators. I'd be of the view we do not cooperate with the review unless there is a redress of the make up of this panel.

19eighty4

mrchuffy wrote: »

... the YR review is being undertaken, after being put out to tender, by independent consultants. Their findings will then to be assessed, sanctioned and supported by a 24 person panel. There are no teachers or resource on this panel. There are no union members on this panel. Comprises of administrators, ctc and iacto people and 4 coordinators. I'd be of the view we do not cooperate with the review unless there is a redress of the make up of this panel.

I'd be interested to see what angle they.re going to take - I wonder if it is secretly a value for money exercise?? - from what I can see, no one knows where we should sit - secondary or further ed. - there is now the additional issue of trying to marry the ETB youthreach with the FAS/SOLAS CTCs!

Unfortunately, I have a problem, I am a dreamer - a lucky dreamer because although I have had a lot of issues in my life, I was not born into an environment that many of these young people that we work with have had to endure and continue to endure.

I also have a niggling problem - my problem is when you have a kid that's for arguments sake, 15. he/she has come through primary (the odd day that they were there- they may have had additional resources that were transferred entering secondary), they can barely read and write and suddenly bang, there in further ed. but all they want to know is, can they do the junior cert. because that's what their friends in the school are doing and they want to be the same.

So you work with this kid (sometimes with great difficulty - especially with their anger and baggage) - you bargain/reason/bribe/praise, your on the receiving end when it goes pear shaped and there are others wanting them out - and what are you left it? Somewhere along the journey, something clicks.

With support and structures it begins to slot together like different coloured pieces of lego. You have helped to craft this person. You have helped them to taste success and supported them in learning the lessons when it goes wrong....

My question is simple,
1. HOW WILL THIS BE MEASURED - will it even be noted? youthreach is looked upon in some circles as "that place down there..."
2. HOW MUCH OF AN INPUT WILL BE ALLOWED by the powers that be with egos to be massaged?
3. WHAT IS THE HIDDEN AGENDA?
4. DOES ANYONE APART FROM RESOURCE PEOPLE AND COORDINATORS REALLY KNOW WHATS GOING ON - because many of us are reaching the stage of complete burn out through frustration and being under valued for the roles we do.

ok - rant over now,thank you.

mrchuffy

19eighty4 wrote: »

never heard a thing about this survey until now when i stumbled onto it...

Hello. This TUI survey is finished, currently being assessed. It was never meant for Youthreach where contracts are standardised. Only for non standard irregular contracts in Adult and FE.

Flynn17

Hi all, since part time tutors working in Youthreach have been awarded teacher status they have been off on midterms while the Youthreach programme continues to opporate. It has been brought to my attention that some Youthreach centres are closing during these mid terms, meaning Resource Persons are off too. This has been locally agreed with their prospective ETB’s. I wasn’t aware that we can be flexible now with closures of centres due to teachers conditions being met in our centres. The centre I work in operate as normal with skeleton staff during these periods. How has this impacted on other centres around the country?

CraftySue

Flynn17 wrote: »

This has been locally agreed with their prospective ETB’s.

When you say locally agreed, has this been negotiated with Union and local etb, or staff and etb. Are these centres closed for June/July/August. Interested in this, as our Youthreach is all Resource workers, therfore following Youthreach calendar.

Flynn17

I’m not 100% sure of the details but I don’t think the union is involved in the agreement, I think it’s between staff & their ETB. I’m assuming the learners are off midterms & June but the staff are in June & July as Resource Persons only are entitled to 35 day’s leave. This information was given to our coordinator at the Coordinators conference last week.

CraftySue

TUI news magazine is stating that an agreement has been reached in relation to a scheme for incremental credit for Youthreach Resource Persons and Youthreach Coordinators. It doesn't give specific details - as in is it a year for year that is been awarded, and the circular is not available yet on the DES website. Anyone have more details on this, and what the plan might be going forward?