Safer cycling, we can make a difference /MPDL thread

expectationlost

RSA Report - Minimum Passing Distances for Cyclists http://www.dttas.ie/roads/publications/english/rsa-report-minimum-passing-distances-cyclists

doesnt recommend any law primary or secondary

average_runner

The tv add about minimum distance is a good start but it doesn't go far enough.

We need one showing a driver carelessly making a left hand turn but also need one showing a cyclists carelessly undertaking a car when the car was right distance ahead and indicating.

Pinch Flat

Johnnio13 wrote: »

the vitriol that is on the Irish Times facebook article about this is just unreal.

Lots of fustrated drivers out there who must be at breaking point. Traffic has reached crisis levels in Dublin certainly to the point where even a simple journey in rush hour in Dublin over a relatively short distance can be a nightmare. I see these articles as venting for those who are spending 3 or 4 hours a day stuck in their cars behind thousands of other cars on a journey that could in a lot of cases be taken by public transport, cycled or in some cages (gasp!) walked. We’ve become a fat, lazy and impatient when it comes to our love affair with the car.

The cyclist is seen as a focal point of this frustration. The antithesis of the above.

Macy0161

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The cyclist is seen as a focal point of this frustration. The antithesis of the above.

This has always been the issue. Car drivers giving out about red light jumping was never a safety issue, it was always a frustration issue!

beauf

Macy0161 wrote: »

This has always been the issue. Car drivers giving out about red light jumping was never a safety issue, it was always a frustration issue!

Well maybe about 90% of the time.

Grassey

Spotted this on TV earlier. Hopefully the message sinks in.

AndrewJRenko

average_runner wrote: »

The tv add about minimum distance is a good start but it doesn't go far enough.

We need one showing a driver carelessly making a left hand turn but also need one showing a cyclists carelessly undertaking a car when the car was right distance ahead and indicating.

We need one showing a driver holding back and waiting if there isn't enough space to overtake safely.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We need one showing a driver holding back and waiting if there isn't enough space to overtake safely.

+1 they could show a few situations, brow of a hill, blind bend on coming cars etc and maybe at the same time spell it out why 2 a breast is best for all rather than telling drivers we are entitled to do that.

Corca Baiscinn

Deleted User wrote: »

+1 they could show a few situations, brow of a hill, blind bend on coming cars etc and maybe at the same time spell it out why 2 a breast is best for all rather than telling drivers we are entitled to do that.

This documentary, the Rise of the MAMIL made for LMFM and broadcast earlier this week covers that issue when one of the cyclists mentions that it's quicker to overtake 5 x 2 than 10 x 1. Tthe programme was fascinating,it was based on Cuchullain and Dunleer clubs with input from Heather Boyle of CI. One man when asked re the cost of bikes, as well as referencing the ubiquitous n+1 said that if a rider dies members hope his widow doesn't sell his bikes for what her husband told her they're worth!

https://www.lmfm.ie/on-air/shows/documentaries/documentaries/the-mamil-(middle-aged-man-in-lycra)/

magicbastarder

the DCC (dublin cycling campaign) meeting this evening had a talk from phil skelton. while i've had a couple of reservations about the enforceability of the 1.5m campaign, you have to hand it to the guy - he's an understated force of nature. proper chapeau to him.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

while i've had a couple of reservations about the enforceability of the 1.5m campaign,

Enforce-ability aside, as it is not as practical as some would have you believe, it could in theory achieve two very important things. Firstly, raising awareness for drivers that they need to give (reasonable)space when overtaking cyclists. Some people genuinely do not realise and think anything that means they are not touching is enough. Secondly, in the case of a collision, it removes alot of doubt. If you hit the cyclist, you were too close. No more of this I gave enough space and the cyclist swung out. Swigging out 1.5m in a quick move is difficult if not nigh on impossible. This also means that drivers, hearing this is a possibility, will give more space, not out of consideration but out of one of humanity's greatest motivators, selfishness. They don't want to risk themselves getting in trouble, therefore they don't do it anymore.

In the long run this behaviour becomes the norm and people grow up giving space, learning to wait, and therefore close overtakes become the unusual

Grassey

CramCycle wrote: »

Some people genuinely do not realise and think anything that means they are not touching is enough.

If it eliminates /removes this mindset at the least it'd be great.

Had 2 instances this morning where drivers thought it was OK to skim me then immediately turn left across me (<5m from a roundabout, & ~5m from a T junction)

magicbastarder

phil did talk of dealing with driver fatigue - not in the sense of tiredness, but in the sense that for a while, the message will be novel and people will take it on board, but that without enforcement people will just drop back into old habits.

Kaisr Sose

I would say that without any enforcement, this new law will go the same way as all the other laws that are broken on our roads every single day. Currently, awareness of the change will be minimal for most that regularly engage in close passing of cyclists.

Motorists continue to pass me close, pass me on blind bends and pass before the crest of a hill. One day, a car will meet oncoming traffic while doing something silly, that 2/3 secs later would not be necessary or would be much safer. Until these behaviors change, all the laws and no enforcement, will change nothing.

Pinch Flat

The RSA campaign for MPDL makes depressing reading on their Facebook page. Checked in with it there this evening - over 1,000 posts, a good proportion of those from motorists who barely know the rules of the roads, such is the ignorance they display on a public forum. Other RSA posts regarding road safety - drunk/ drug driving, using mobile phones, driving when fatigued-barely get a mention.

The same tired arguments - “make cyclists take a test before they use the roads”, “what about road tax? (Sic)”, “make them take out insurance”, plus the usual anecdotes about cyclists on pavements and breaking red lights.

We really have a long way to go as a nation to reach anywhere the maturity and common sense that our mainland European neighbours display using the roads and interacting with cyclists. A lot of frustrated and angry motorists out there who are obviously at their wits end given the horrific levels of traffic mayhem that each and every one of them is contributing to.

smacl

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I would say that without any enforcement, this new law will go the same way as all the other laws that are broken on our roads every single day. Currently, awareness of the change will be minimal for most that regularly engage in close passing of cyclists.

Motorists continue to pass me close, pass me on blind bends and pass before the crest of a hill. One day, a car will meet oncoming traffic while doing something silly, that 2/3 secs later would not be necessary or would be much safer. Until these behaviors change, all the laws and no enforcement, will change nothing.

My wife witnessed a guy getting knocked off his bike at the weekend due to a passing driver leaving insufficient room. She stuck around to report it to a Garda, as the driver was being obnoxious, even though entirely in the wrong in her view, and safe passing distance got discussed. It is unfortunate it takes accidents to raise awareness, but it seems to be the case. Perhaps a Garda who's worked on an accident due to a close pass will be quicker to deal with other close passes that could lead to an accident. It certainly removes ambiguity as to who's in the wrong in these cases.

magicbastarder

i know it's not a universally popular form of protest, but worth mentioning here that there's another 'die-in' planned.

This past week has seen the tragic killing of a young person cycling on Dublin roads, bringing the total number of cyclists killed this year to 5. 2017 was the deadliest year for people who cycle in Ireland with 15 deaths, the highest in 10 years.

Please join us from 5.50pm on Wednesday 25 April outside the gates of Leinster House, Kildare Street for a silent protest.

The issue of safe streets is not just affecting people who cycle; 14 pedestrians have already lost their lives this year. It is worth noting that 2017 had the lowest number of fatalities for people in motorised vehicles in over a decade.

Dublin Cycling Campaign and I BIKE Dublin are conducting this silent demonstration to express their sorrow and anger at this latest death on Irish roads, and to call on the government to invest in safer streets as a matter of urgency.

We are calling on the Government for -

A minimum of 10% of transport budget allocated for safe cycling and walking
Better design of cycling and walking infrastructure, especially at junctions where people are forced to interact with motor vehicles.

And we are calling on everyone who walks or cycles in Dublin to let the Government know that the issue of cyclist and pedestrian safety can no longer be ignored.

Sincerely,
Dublin Cycling Campaign

ED E

Bump!

6 today if anyone is about.

magicbastarder

I managed to confuse my wife earlier when I told her there was a planned cyclist die-in outside met eireann.

coco0981

Some of the attitudes on social media show why cyclists are so vulnerable. Many other road users really have a level of disdain for cyclists, its frightening

RobertFoster

coco0981 wrote: »

Some of the attitudes on social media show why cyclists are so vulnerable. Many other road users really have a level of disdain for cyclists, its frightening

How much of that is keyboard warrior/trolling bull**** though? When in real world situations and faced with real world consequences, how many would actually intentionally endanger a vulnerable road user?

Maybe I've a naive perception of other peoples intentions, but I feel the vast majority of negative road interactions I've experienced have been down to ignorance or inattention rather than maliciousness.

cdaly_

magicbastarder wrote: »

I managed to confuse my wife earlier when I told her there was a planned cyclist die-in outside met eireann.

I was wondering about that as I tried to go home...

magicbastarder

random aside, but we walk past the building regularly enough. and are always bemused by the people living behind it who bought houses without driveways yet have fairly aggressively laid claim to the parking spaces outside. and park on their own footpath.

AndrewJRenko

magicbastarder wrote: »

random aside, but we walk past the building regularly enough. and are always bemused by the people living behind it who bought houses without driveways yet have fairly aggressively laid claim to the parking spaces outside. and park on their own footpath.

What building?

magicbastarder

met eireann.

expectationlost

more photos https://twitter.com/RSAIreland/status/991605845938114560 but wheres the statutory instrument he promised?

magicbastarder

you'd think the least they could have done was pried ross away from whatever latest meeting he was having about judicial appointments, to actually get him to stand in the photo?

expectationlost

magicbastarder wrote: »

you'd think the least they could have done was pried ross away from whatever latest meeting he was having about judicial appointments, to actually get him to stand in the photo?

he was there https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/991597373934788608

ED E

magicbastarder wrote: »

you'd think the least they could have done was pried ross away from whatever latest meeting he was having about judicial appointments, to actually get him to stand in the photo?

They did.

Saw him on TV3 news there on a piece highlighting the above RSA campaign in which he spoke about a few individuals still holding the bill up in the Dail. Whether it was lip service or not I'm not sure.

EDIT: More here http://www.thejournal.ie/cycling-bank-holiday-weekend-3989384-May2018/ as usual read the comments at your own risk. Amazing how many comments a cycling piece attracts.