Safer cycling, we can make a difference /MPDL thread

Cookie_Monster

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is no road in Ireland that makes it impossible for cyclists and motorists to co-exist legally.

there are plenty, all the motorways for a start, and a lot of tunnels.

Pinch Flat

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there are plenty, all the motorways for a start, and a lot of tunnels.

Cyclists can use motorways now? A lot of tunnels are out of bounds as well - Dublin port and lee tunnels spring to mind.

Chiparus

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Cyclists can use motorways now? A lot of tunnels are out of bounds as well - Dublin port and lee tunnels spring to mind.

Perhaps you should read the question he was answering again.

tomasrojo

The "co-exist legally" claim was in the context of minimum passing distances: all the roads where motorists come across a cyclist and "have to" overtake them with less than 1.5m to spare. So motorways don't come into it because cyclists aren't allowed on them anyway.

(If they were allowed on them, 1.5m passing distance is actually feasible on a lot of them.)

Tenzor07

Not sure if this is the right thread..

I see that 4 Gardai responded to a call from a motorist for the iBike guys cycle lane protection hour in Rathmines...

4...Gards... Jeesus you'd be lucky to see one ticketing cars for parking in cycle lanes..never mind 4!

http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/07/four-garda-attending-protest-keeping-cycle-lane-clear-unnecessary-and-rather-perplexing-says-group/

P_1

Also unsure if the right thread. Sad news from Wicklow this weekend. RIP

https://www.facebook.com/DWMRT/photos/a.397907875589.205518.184831150589/10156085186985590/?type=3

Corca Baiscinn

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right thread..

I see that 4 Gardai responded to a call from a motorist for the iBike guys cycle lane protection hour in Rathmines...

4...Gards... Jeesus you'd be lucky to see one ticketing cars for parking in cycle lanes..never mind 4!

http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/07/four-garda-attending-protest-keeping-cycle-lane-clear-unnecessary-and-rather-perplexing-says-group/

Sure that sets a great standard re what to expect from Garda Traffic. From now on I Bike or indeed any cyclist who phones the Gardaí to complain that cars in cycle lane are obstructing traffic can expect a minimum of 4 Gardai to zoom up to investigate

Pinch Flat

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right thread..

I see that 4 Gardai responded to a call from a motorist for the iBike guys cycle lane protection hour in Rathmines...

4...Gards... Jeesus you'd be lucky to see one ticketing cars for parking in cycle lanes..never mind 4!

http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/07/four-garda-attending-protest-keeping-cycle-lane-clear-unnecessary-and-rather-perplexing-says-group/

About 12 - 18 months ago I witnessed a cyclist being struck while overtaking cars parked on the cycle lane opposite Loretto in central Dublin. Cyclist was uninjued if startled and cycled on her way. I took a few pictures and sent these to AGS, recounting what had happened. Followed this up on further days - there was frequently triple parking going (car parking space, cycle lane and the traffic lane outside this). Absolutely nothing done about it - the Garda I was corresponding with, although sympathetic, pretty much admitted there was little they could do - they could show up and ticket people, but being opposite a school it would have caused issues.

Interesting to see then their reaction to a legal protest trying to prevent motorists doing something illegal in the first place.

AndrewJRenko

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Absolutely nothing done about it - the Garda I was corresponding with, although sympathetic, pretty much admitted there was little they could do - they could show up and ticket people, but being opposite a school it would have caused issues.

Absolutely nothing they could do for sure - except possibly to enforce the law, like they're supposed to do. But interesting to note they say that they "are duty bound to acknowledge and respond to concerns raised by members of the public" so I presume if I ring them to report parents blocking the bike lane on St Stephen's Green, they'll send out four Gardai pronto to investigate.

Cookie_Monster

Pinch Flat wrote: »

the Garda I was corresponding with, although sympathetic, pretty much admitted there was little they could do - they could show up and ticket people, but being opposite a school it would have caused issues.

is it not even more important to enforce traffic safety around schools? I guess, not...

Rechuchote

Eight cyclists have died this year - the latest two not from car crashes (a mountain biker whose body was found by Dublin Wicklow Mountain Rescue after a huge search, and a man who became ill while on a charity cycle in Mayo).

But funding for cycling infrastructure - the UN says 'active travel' infra funding should be 20% of all transport spending - has been ruthlessly slashed by the current Minister for Finance, Paschal Donohoe, whose constituency is Dublin Central, an inner-city constituency spreading north and south of the Liffey.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/spend-on-cycling-infrastructure-falls-sharply-in-past-three-years-1.3485992

Figures provided by the Department of Transport show

• almost €19 million was allocated to cycling infrastructure in 2015.
• This almost halved to €10.5 million in 2016,
• and fell further to €7 million in 2017.
• Some €8 million is earmarked for cycling infrastructure in 2018, according to Minister for Transport Shane Ross (constituency: Dublin Rathdown, which includes areas from Dun Laoghaire through Clonskeagh and out to Churchtown and Stepaside.

magicbastarder

and good ould paschal is expected today to announce there's less money in the kitty (in general).

Pinch Flat

Quick numbers check - ireland is circa 85,000 km2 in area. That €8m adds up to just shy of €95 per square kilometre. Laughable.

Edit - further down in the article:

“A spokesman for the Department of Transport said more than €110 million in capital funding would go towards cycling and walking infrastructure in Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford over the coming three years. Another €55 million is to be spent on Greenways outside the five cities.“

So sounds like a bit more funding, no?

Macy0161

Shane Ross was hi fiving the riders off at the Orwell Randonee, but he didn't respond to "when is the law coming into place" from one of the lads... Garda dragging their heels on the equipment needed to enforce - must be waiting on an action cam from Ali...

buffalo

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right thread..

I see that 4 Gardai responded to a call from a motorist for the iBike guys cycle lane protection hour in Rathmines...

The language used that 'Gardaí are duty bound to acknowledge and respond to concerns raised by members of the public' leaves them open to a lot of criticism. There are many examples of people ringing the Gardaí to report all sorts of offences and crimes and them not attending the scene.

I'd love to get this Garda's number on speed-dial so they could respond to my concerns as a member of the public.

magicbastarder

Dublin’s South East area councillors have voted against holding public consultation on the South Dublin Quietway at a local area meeting in the last few minutes.
http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/14/councillors-vote-against-south-dublin-quietway/

Grassey

Jesus. Says it all when some object to a cycle route discussion because there is no public consultation...then use their vote to vote against having a public consultation.

Wow Mannix Flynn voted against it, I'm shocked :rolleyes:

Kaisr Sose

Grassey wrote: »

Jesus. Says it all when some object to a cycle route discussion because there is no public consultation...then use their vote to vote against having a public consultation.

If you are beginning to think you understand how these things work, you are actually totally confused....

Rechuchote

Grassey wrote: »

Jesus. Says it all when some object to a cycle route discussion because there is no public consultation...then use their vote to vote against having a public consultation.

Apparently the NIMBYs were packed into the public gallery, breathing down the necks of saaairtain councillors…

Watch it and weep:

https://dublincity.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/348496#

tomasrojo

Dermot Lacey on Twitter last night kept emphasising the negative effect of the quietway on the residents of Marlborough Road. Those residents can't even get their cars out of their driveways and onto the road in the morning because of through-traffic. And when they do, they have to queue for multiple light cycles, and only a handful of cars can exit the road at the Donnybrook end with every green light.

check_six

tomasrojo wrote: »

Dermot Lacey on Twitter last night kept emphasising the negative effect of the quietway on the residents of Marlborough Road. Those residents can't even get their cars out of their driveways and onto the road in the morning because of through-traffic. And when they do, they have to queue for multiple light cycles, and only a handful of cars can exit the road at the Donnybrook end with every green light.

Sounds like something out of Mad Max, but with bicycles. I'm surprised that the clicking of freewheels roaring past at all hours wasn't mentioned as well.

magicbastarder

some setbacks for the MPDL; posted by stayin' alive at 1.5 to facebook yesterday:

In a nutshell, the best legal advice in the country (who by the way is also a cyclist) is telling us that the proposed MPDL wouldn’t survive a test in the court.
There were both constitutional rights issues and practical court issues which are advised as not to be able to be overcome, due to Irish Common law constraints.
DTTAS say that MPDL is unlikely to happen in current format proposals.
DTTAS stated their keenness to resolve this issue of close passing of cyclists. In light of above difficulty with MPDL they now propose a New Specific Dangerous Overtaking of Cyclists Law, with a specific fixed charge notice.

Rechuchote

The constitutional right to pass someone dangerously close? Which section of the Constitution is that in?

AndrewJRenko

Rechuchote wrote: »

The constitutional right to pass someone dangerously close? Which section of the Constitution is that in?

Seems like a strange conclusion, for sure - though the idea of a New Specific Dangerous Overtaking of Cyclists Law isn't a bad alternative.


Success will depend on Gardai attitudes, which at present aren't great. I reported a driver to Gardai a few months with video footage showing the driving handling/using the phone at four different occasions over the course of a few minutes in traffic. I saw closely enough to identify the style of phone - a Blackberry style phone with a physical keyboard, unusual enough these days. Gardai declined to prosecute, as it could have been 'any device' he had in his hands, apparently. I asked the Gardai what other kinds of devices he had in mind, and he told me that he didn't have to answer to me.

magicbastarder

Rechuchote wrote: »

The constitutional right to pass someone dangerously close? Which section of the Constitution is that in?

pure speculation here, as i'm no legal eagle, but i wouldn't be suprised if it was because the law would be based on a specific measurement, and no way to verify that in evidence. the 1 or 1.5m gap would be down to the judgement of a garda, which could have implications on the right to a fair trial.

Rechuchote

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Seems like a strange conclusion, for sure - though the idea of a New Specific Dangerous Overtaking of Cyclists Law isn't a bad alternative.


Success will depend on Gardai attitudes, which at present aren't great. I reported a driver to Gardai a few months with video footage showing the driving handling/using the phone at four different occasions over the course of a few minutes in traffic. I saw closely enough to identify the style of phone - a Blackberry style phone with a physical keyboard, unusual enough these days. Gardai declined to prosecute, as it could have been 'any device' he had in his hands, apparently. I asked the Gardai what other kinds of devices he had in mind, and he told me that he didn't have to answer to me.

Did you report this to GSOC?

AndrewJRenko

Rechuchote wrote: »

Did you report this to GSOC?

I hope to report it to the local Supt, but it's a real PITA to have to find time for this stuff.

DanDublin1982

So let it be challenged ffs.

Having it out there publicised and taught as a rule that people can be told and potentially learn and be aware of is of no harm whatsoever.

magicbastarder

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

So let it be challenged ffs.

that'd be idiotic. bring in a law which (it's now a matter of public record) the AG thinks is problematic, and have it shot down in court? you can be guaranteed the first person able to afford the legal representation to challenge this will make hay with the fact the AG was unsure of it.
also, at what cost to the taxpayer, or the political will to actually get this done, on the assumption the law could be shot down?