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Safer cycling, we can make a difference /MPDL thread

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    #542
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    that link led me to this letter, which is a corker. nothing to do with cycling, though.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/time-to-switch-to-the-left-1.3599595

    It would lead to an initial cost but then huge economies of scale if the whole world drove on the same side of the road, rather than half on the left and half on the right as now.


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    #543
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that's a car dealer coming up with that idea. boom time for him.
    especially when it comes to replacing all the cars destroyed in the pileups at the border.


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    #544
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    that's a car dealer coming up with that idea. boom time for him.
    especially when it comes to replacing all the cars destroyed in the pileups at the border.

    Yea, he acknowledges where he's coming from. Wonder will imports from UK be more costly or difficult though. Huge numbers being brought in at the minute because of favourable exchange rate, will be interesting to see what happens. not sure I'll be personally affected, my next car when current one dies might be an e-bike!


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    #545
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    meeting on tomorrow in phibsboro about PT & cycling, hosted by the labour party.
    i suspect it will be dominated by talk on bus connects.

    for those not on facebook, it's in st. peter's parish hall, from 8pm to 10pm.
    Join us with your views. We will have expert speakers on cycling, disability access on public transport and an overview of the
    BusConnects project.
    Speakers include:
    Joe Costello, Spokesperson on Urban Regeneration
    Marie Sherlock, Local Area Representative
    Declan Meenagh, Local Area Representative
    David O'Connor, Dublin Institute of Technology
    John Murphy, SIPTU Official, Dublin Bus
    Dublin Cycling Campaign Speaker (tbc)
    https://www.facebook.com/events/1155655971253159/


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    #546
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i bike dublin getting up to some fun in phobsborough yesterday:

    http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/dublin-cycling-activists-clamping/


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    #547
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    is it illegal to park a car on a cycle lane? i see enough examples of it

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #548
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    silverharp wrote: »
    is it illegal to park a car on a cycle lane? i see enough examples of it
    It is illegal to park on a mandatory cycle lane (continuous white line), or on any pavement.


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    #549
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It is illegal to park on a mandatory cycle lane (continuous white line), or on any pavement.

    Unless - like the mandatory cycle lane (continuous white line) on Harold's Cross Road where they're building the unfortunately-named St Pancras development - that lane coexists with parking spots painted over it…


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    #550
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Unless - like the mandatory cycle lane (continuous white line) on Harold's Cross Road where they're building the unfortunately-named St Pancras development - that lane coexists with parking spots painted over it…

    Unless it has a time stamp to allocate hours, then the car park spaces are just lines of paint/grafetti, worth contacting the council to remove them.


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    #551
    RobertFoster
    Registered Users Posts: 9,175 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    The signs say on Monday - Saturday from 07:00 - 10:00 it's a clearway, and from 10:00 - 19:00 it's pay & display. Perhaps it's only a mandatory cycle track for the 18 hours per week when it's a clearway? Who gets evenings and weekends?

    I wonder when stats are put forward about how many kilometres of cycle track there are, do they note that some stretches are only part of the network for 10.7% of the time?


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    #552
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    RobertFoster wrote: »
    The signs say on Monday - Saturday from 07:00 - 10:00 it's a clearway, and from 10:00 - 19:00 it's pay & display. Perhaps it's only a mandatory cycle track for the 18 hours per week when it's a clearway? Who gets evenings and weekends?

    I wonder when stats are put forward about how many kilometres of cycle track there are, do they note that some stretches are only part of the network for 10.7% of the time?

    Alas I fear you are right and it is only a mandatory cycle track for 18hours a week.


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    #553
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a tiny bit oppportunistic, considering roisin shortall has a minor history of slight antagonism towards cycling:

    https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1042736888329785346


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    #554
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,392 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    a tiny bit oppportunistic
    From the Social Democrats? I don't believe it! :D


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    #555
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    a tiny bit oppportunistic, considering roisin shortall has a minor history of slight antagonism towards cycling:

    https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1042736888329785346

    Two possible responses:

    1. Campaigners need to take support where they find it. Anyone who challenges SR re % of Transport budget allocated to cycling as she did in Dáil yest is their friend

    2. Politicians have been known to have Road to Damascus moments!


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    #556
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It's a bit encouraging, in that politicians are starting to see cyclists as a sufficiently large voting bloc to target. Even if it's cynical, good may well come of it.


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    #557
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    It's a bit encouraging, in that politicians are starting to see cyclists as a sufficiently large voting bloc to target. Even if it's cynical, good may well come of it.

    I dont think there is any doubt that cyclists are now a significant voting block, Why would the party of Charles Haughey and Bertie Ahearne go to the effort? You really think they care about cyclists or about votes?

    https://www.fiannafail.ie/ff-proposes-new-measures-to-overhaul-cycling-infrastructure-and-improve-safety-troy/


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    #558
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Time to take the incentive and really push the demand for a safe cycling network in Dublin.

    The embarrassingly dangerous plan for the Dodder Greenway is an example of the kind of infrastructure being offered - the councils plan to mix cyclists (average speed 15km/h but many much faster) and walkers (average speed 5km/h; many much slower, many with dogs) on a too-narrow walkway beside the river.

    When this starts to be used by cycletourists - cycling fast and loaded down with panniers increasing their weight - it is inevitable that there will be dangerous crashes.

    This "have your say" page has a link for submissions; the link isn't working. Has the date expired? https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news-public-notices/have-your-say-dodder-greenway


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    #559
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    MPDL has been officially abandoned:

    New law on drivers overtaking cyclists abandoned
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-law-on-drivers-overtaking-cyclists-abandoned-1.3745451


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    #560
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    MPDL has been officially abandoned:

    New law on drivers overtaking cyclists abandoned
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-law-on-drivers-overtaking-cyclists-abandoned-1.3745451

    Ross on news talk this morning saying its not abandoned but in its current form not implementable. He is going to take a different route with the legislation.


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    #561
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,392 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Disappointed, but not surprised. There was no support for the RSA, as it didn't fit their victim blaming/ motorist focused mentality, and seeming no support from the gardai either. Both could've looked at how it is implemented in other countries and other police forces (in the UK for example), but as they weren't interested they never pursued it.

    Again, I'll bring up that the gardai say camera footage is unreliable, yet when theres what they perceive as a "real" crime, they put out appeals for dashcam and cctv footage. Including in the last couple of days.


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    #562
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,418 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    as a specifically 'minimum passing distance' law, it's abandoned, in favour of a less specific dangerous overtaking law from what i can see.


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    #563
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    So we think that Ross and the Guards should have ignored advice from the Attorney General and implemented it anyway? And when cases started getting thrown out of court, they'd no doubt be pilloried for ignoring that advice.*

    *Assuming any cases did make it to court. The current dangerous overtaking law (which is much easier to enforce) is rarely enforced.


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    #564
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,392 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    So we think that Ross and the Guards should have ignored advice from the Attorney General and implemented it anyway? And when cases started getting thrown out of court, they'd no doubt be pilloried for ignoring that advice.
    I would say the AG was pushing an open door. Our legal system is based upon the UK one, but they seem to be able to action based upon camera evidence. We're told cameras are "unreliable" without evidence, or what needs to change to make them reliable instead?

    I don't see what's debateble about most of the close pass footage we see on the likes of sticky bottle. They're generally not marginal between 1.3m and 1.5m.


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    #565
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    as a specifically 'minimum passing distance' law, it's abandoned, in favour of a less specific dangerous overtaking law from what i can see.
    Which would already be covered under dangerous driving.
    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    So we think that Ross and the Guards should have ignored advice from the Attorney General and implemented it anyway? And when cases started getting thrown out of court, they'd no doubt be pilloried for ignoring that advice.*

    *Assuming any cases did make it to court. The current dangerous overtaking law (which is much easier to enforce) is rarely enforced.
    This one, IMO, would be too raise awareness of dangerous driving habits that many do not even realise. Many a conversation I have had with others and their opinion has been that if they didn't hit me, they were not close enough, and not in an aggressive fashion, just complete obliviousness to the danger and intimidation.
    I wouldn't have wanted gardai out with Hi tech devices trying to catch people out. What I wanted was that in the case of a collision, that the law cleared up alot of "I said, you said" rubbish in court. If you collided, then you were to close. Dangerous driving and dangerous overtaking still leave alot of wiggle room for the legal eagles. A minimum distance sets a standard and makes it harder to defend against. It could be referenced in cases, whereas the opinion that we should give that distance means little in a court of law.


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    #566
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    I don't see what's debateble about most of the close pass footage we see on the likes of sticky bottle. They're generally not marginal between 1.3m and 1.5m.

    Which would be easily covered by existing legislation.

    Our constitution is very different from UK's one (if you can call it that).


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    #567
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,392 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    Which would be easily covered by existing legislation.
    That's been effective so far...


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    #568
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,064 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    The close passing videos I've seen offer no way to accurately measure the passing distance.


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    #569
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    That's been effective so far...

    Exactly. What's the point in introducing more new legislation, with a higher burden of proof, when the existing legislation isn't enforced? It's just tokenism.


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    #570
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,452 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    Exactly. What's the point in introducing more new legislation, with a higher burden of proof, when the existing legislation isn't enforced? It's just tokenism.
    It's an objective well defined offence for one, instead of the current subjective dangerous driving.


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    #571
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    CramCycle wrote: »
    This one, IMO, would be too raise awareness of dangerous driving habits that many do not even realise. Many a conversation I have had with others and their opinion has been that if they didn't hit me, they were not close enough, and not in an aggressive fashion, just complete obliviousness to the danger and intimidation. I wouldn't have wanted gardai out with Hi tech devices trying to catch people out.

    1.5m is great is guidance on what constitutes a safe pass, but makes for poor law because of the difficulty in enforcement. So by all means promote that message, but putting it on the statute books is a mistake.


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