Waterford FC Thread

alta stare

Max Powers wrote: »

We are eligible AFAIK, pats are objecting

Its not so clear cut. Waterford FC is a new entity and a club needs to be in existence for 3 years before it can enter Europe. WFC is not around that long. Hopefully Pats are not successful in their objection but they do have a case and are well within their rights to object.

Max Powers

alta stare wrote: »

Its not so clear cut. Waterford FC is a new entity and a club needs to be in existence for 3 years before it can enter Europe. WFC is not around that long. Hopefully Pats are not successful in their objection but they do have a case and are well within their rights to object.

Might be in their rights, but its wrong in any sports sense, embarrassing and pathetic as mentioned before.

alta stare

Max Powers wrote: »

Might be in their rights, but its wrong in any sports sense, embarrassing and pathetic as mentioned before.

If the shoe was on the other foot im sure we would also object.

I agree that it isnt very sportsmanship like but there is potential for some much needed money to be had and if Pats or any other club were in a position to object then they are bound to do so.

Max Powers

alta stare wrote: »

If the shoe was on the other foot im sure we would also object.

I agree that it isnt very sportsmanship like but there is potential for some much needed money to be had and if Pats or any other club were in a position to object then they are bound to do so.

I dont think we would because its pathetic, to my mind it would turn me off a club, I mean long term dignity would be more important to me.

alta stare

Max Powers wrote: »

I dont think we would because its pathetic, to my mind it would turn me off a club, I mean long term dignity would be more important to me.

You or I dont work at the club so perhaps those who do might have a different approach. Of course your own view is morally correct so i agree with you in that sense but these clubs are businesses trying to survive and this is just another means of survival.

Cape Clear

Correct move by Pats too many nod nod wink wink about the whole thing. The last time the rule was applied it involved Derry City I see no difference here. This European Place only came available because the cup finalists had already qualified. You could argue Bohs and UCD have as much right to the place as any of the other pretenders

Max Powers

alta stare wrote: »

You or I dont work at the club so perhaps those who do might have a different approach. Of course your own view is morally correct so i agree with you in that sense but these clubs are businesses trying to survive and this is just another means of survival.

All valid alta, but I would be ashamed to be involved with a club like St.PAThetic after this.
Yes, its a struggle to survive in all business but theres a bit more to it, its meant to be a football club at its core, even the hyper money cut throat clubs in England with their various owners are football clubs at the core.

Johnboy1951

This possibility was raised much earlier in this thread.
It can be no surprise that it is now happening.

There are solid grounds to believe that Waterford is not eligible to play in the eu competition.

It has nothing at all to do with morality ..... except it might be considered moral to abide by the rules of the competition and entry to it.

noby

Cape Clear wrote: »

Correct move by Pats too many nod nod wink wink about the whole thing. The last time the rule was applied it involved Derry City I see no difference here. This European Place only came available because the cup finalists had already qualified. You could argue Bohs and UCD have as much right to the place as any of the other pretenders

Yes, Pat's have every right to appeal, but from what I've been reading this is not the same as Derry City etc.
The 3 year rule is to stop clubs folding, and forming a new club to write off debts. Yes, Power started a new company, but in good faith, paying all debts owed by WUFC.
The only outstanding one, to a previous manager, we going through the courts. If that's enough to exclude us it seems very harsh, as any club, at any time, could be brought to court by a previous employee. That to me isn't the same as not paying your debts.

That's my slightly optimistic view, only garnered from what I've read on social media (I don't have any inside knowledge of the club), so take with a large pinch of salt.

Gardner

Cape Clear wrote: »

Correct move by Pats too many nod nod wink wink about the whole thing. The last time the rule was applied it involved Derry City I see no difference here. This European Place only came available because the cup finalists had already qualified. You could argue Bohs and UCD have as much right to the place as any of the other pretenders

this is what bothers me about the whole thing. My dad brought me to Bordeaux as a 12 year old and it was something I will never forget. I was going to do the same this year with my young lad but the club absolutely stinks at this moment. The Supporters Club and the ordinary fans have been painted in same brush with the whole statement fiasco. it wouldn't surprise me the whole "nod nod wink wink" discussion between the Club and JD has now probably seen a whistle-blower talk to someone in St Pats from the FAI.
I've decided not to attend the games on Friday and Monday with the young lad. I will be able to distract him this weekend with midterm etc. but I know when he goes back to school he will want to head down on Friday's again. I don’t know if I can support the club at present and I have seen a lot of lows over the last 30 years but this stinks to the core. :mad:

Max Powers

Gardner wrote: »

this is what bothers me about the whole thing. My dad brought me to Bordeaux as a 12 year old and it was something I will never forget. I was going to do the same this year with my young lad but the club absolutely stinks at this moment. The Supporters Club and the ordinary fans have been painted in same brush with the whole statement fiasco. it wouldn't surprise me the whole "nod nod wink wink" discussion between the Club and JD has now probably seen a whistle-blower talk to someone in St Pats from the FAI.
I've decided not to attend the games on Friday and Monday with the young lad. I will be able to distract him this weekend with midterm etc. but I know when he goes back to school he will want to head down on Friday's again. I don’t know if I can support the club at present and I have seen a lot of lows over the last 30 years but this stinks to the core. :mad:

Wow..strong feelings, I'm not quite sure why so strong though, I too found the statement supporting JD a bit embarrassing not a fiasco, even if one could make an argument he has been good to Waterford, limerick, and many other sections of Irish football. Besides that, cant think of much, 99% of the fans down there are grand, some childish chants but in general nothing offensive. The wink nod thing is a bit hazy to be fair, is that speculation or a general comment on the FAI, if general comment, bit harsh to be singling out ourselves.To say the club stinks just seems way over the top, overly negative, to be fair, youre consistent on the negative.

PTH2009

I think the club officals should of been told last season "sorry lads due too UEFA rules ye cant in Europe".

If It was a handshake agreement between Power/club officals and JD about our chances getting a licence than we could be pretty ****ed

Waterford are yet too comment on it. Meeting is next week I think too decide

Johnboy1951

PTH2009 wrote: »

I think the club officals should of been told last season "sorry lads due too UEFA rules ye cant in Europe".

If It was a handshake agreement between Power/club officals and JD about our chances getting a licence than we could be pretty ****ed

Waterford are yet too comment on it. Meeting is next week I think too decide

Why would you believe they were unaware of this?

From what little I hear, this has been known and discussed and the outcome predicted.
No doubt, in the absence of objections it is possible that someone like JD could have used his influence to try to bypass the problem (nod & wink?). There is no hope of that happening now I believe.

Max Powers

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why would you believe they were unaware of this?

From what little I hear, this has been known and discussed and the outcome predicted.
No doubt, in the absence of objections it is possible that someone like JD could have used his influence to try to bypass the problem (nod & wink?). There is no hope of that happening now I believe.

Speculating on rumour.

jimbojazz

The club has always been dogged with controversy.

Even back in the 80's when they were competing at the top there was always stuff lurking in the background

I travelled the length and breadth of the country back then supporting them but gave up because of the the shady dealings going on

I went back when Power came in as I thought at last things were going in the right direction, clearly not, and to be honest at this stage I'm starting to feel the same way about this regime

Deisegodeo

There seems to be lot of negativity directed towards the club on this thread lately, I don't get it. Can someone explain this general 'dodgy dealings behind the scenes' type thinking?

I understand the statement supporting Delaney recently didn't go down well but hardly explains this level of disgruntlement with the club.

With regard to the appeal by st pats, my understanding is that power came in and paid all debts off, changed the name of the club but didn't leave people unpaid. I know there is the issue the former manager brought to court but that is a dispute and I'm sure the club would honour any payment they were directed to make.

I don't see it as being the same as a club reforming to avoid paying debts and therefore I would think we will be successful in the whole process and play in Europe. I certainly hope so and I don't understand why supporters would be boycotting the club

Johnboy1951

Deisegodeo wrote: »

There seems to be lot of negativity directed towards the club on this thread lately, I don't get it. Can someone explain this general 'dodgy dealings behind the scenes' type thinking?

I understand the statement supporting Delaney recently didn't go down well but hardly explains this level of disgruntlement with the club.

With regard to the appeal by st pats, my understanding is that power came in and paid all debts off, changed the name of the club but didn't leave people unpaid. I know there is the issue the former manager brought to court but that is a dispute and I'm sure the club would honour any payment they were directed to make.

I don't see it as being the same as a club reforming to avoid paying debts and therefore I would think we will be successful in the whole process and play in Europe. I certainly hope so and I don't understand why supporters would be boycotting the club

It is not so much unpaid debts or anything like that, but the rules of the competition exclude any club which has not been in existence for three years ....... and Power essentially created a new club with new registration etc etc when he came in, thus excluding Waterford until it is three years in existence.

If I was a supporter of St. Pats and they did NOT object then I would be up in arms with the club management. They are correct to do so IMO.

Gardner

jimbojazz wrote: »

The club has always been dogged with controversy.

Even back in the 80's when they were competing at the top there was always stuff lurking in the background

I travelled the length and breadth of the country back then supporting them but gave up because of the the shady dealings going on

I went back when Power came in as I thought at last things were going in the right direction, clearly not, and to be honest at this stage I'm starting to feel the same way about this regime

I agree entirely with you. Not only is it the Club but it's also the Supporters Clubs. it was the same craic going on in the 80's and 90's. No matter what the club do wrong the Supporters Clubs are behind them. I didn't realise we had 4 listed on Wiki. not one of them have come out and stated they don't agree or partially don't agree with the statement. i wish one of them would and give us 'the ordinary fans' a voice. Lee Power has really let our Club down with this fiasco.

Gardner

a friend just sent me Johnny Ward's tweet. seems what a few of us were saying above could come to light.

noby

This morning's optimism is quickly vanishing...

jimbojazz

Mark Hill on Facebook now, seems he's going to blow the lid on a lot of stuff that went on, one being that the debts were not cleared

jimbojazz

Deisegodeo wrote: »

There seems to be lot of negativity directed towards the club on this thread lately, I don't get it. Can someone explain this general 'dodgy dealings behind the scenes' type thinking?

I understand the statement supporting Delaney recently didn't go down well but hardly explains this level of disgruntlement with the club.

With regard to the appeal by st pats, my understanding is that power came in and paid all debts off, changed the name of the club but didn't leave people unpaid. I know there is the issue the former manager brought to court but that is a dispute and I'm sure the club would honour any payment they were directed to make.

I don't see it as being the same as a club reforming to avoid paying debts and therefore I would think we will be successful in the whole process and play in Europe. I certainly hope so and I don't understand why supporters would be boycotting the club

I was at a game in the 80's, Bray wanderers away, we travelled on the team bus a lot, after the game we were left sitting for about an hour and no sign of anyone. Players came out and told us that they were not getting paid. Things went downhill after that. Also heard about a lot of businesses in town being owed money for suits etc, a lot of stuff like that

PTH2009

balls anyway was really looking forward too the games and the atmosphere that would be created

Finding it hard too see us getting too Europe anytime soon. This could be very damaging for the club

alta stare

There is much stuff going around how much is true well lord knows so for now im going its hard to believe anything. LP needs to come out and reassure the fans that things are ok.

Do i expect him to go......No.

Would i be surprised if he goes.....No.

The joys of WFC.

WFC1930

Wow I’ve seen some dumb things said in this page but this is just.... yeah wow.. people talking about boycotting are you serious? Why exactly haha.

Lots of people are wrongly stating rules that don’t exist. There is no “you can’t play in Europe if you’re only 3 years old” rule.

The rule states that if we want to apply for a European license and we recently changed the company (NOT THE CLUB) than the new company that now owns the club (Power Grade Ltd) must show that all previous creditors are satisfied with the monies they are owed.

If we didn’t change our name to Waterford FC I genuinely think nobody would look at this the way it is being looked at. We are still the same club being ran by a new company. We never folded. The general fans are comparing us to other clubs who folded completely and never paid the debts of their old clubs. (Cork/Derry etc.) We never folded.

Dundalk had to go through this same process in 2012 when they got new owners who had the club under a different company name and they were fine. That is the situation we are in right now. Our old company owes money and the new company possessing the club right now needs to pay it.

And Stop comparing to the Derry situation cause they aren’t similar at all. Derry broke many financial fair play rules including offering double contracts and they also folded and started a brand new club.

In short if we pay off all our debts we will go to Europe. Most of the old debt of Waterford United left by John O’Sullivan and others was paid off however there are still a few debts hanging around I think l, most notably the 10k owed to Roddy Collins. Unless there’s something we aren’t being told that may prevent us going to Europe like other substantial debts (just for an example ONLY) but only time will tell on that one.

If you’d like to learn more about the rules go over to the twitter page of Reg Coppinger. She explains to lots of Dublin journalists and fans the rules in more detail throughout her tweets and replies.

Anyway my advice is after you do that stop worrying and focus on what’s a huge game tomorrow and stop talking nonsense about non existing rules and “Lee Power letting us down” and “the regime”.

It’s utterly embarrassing stuff especially after Power brought us from nothing to here in just two years. Regardless of what the outcome of all this is I can nearly say for certain Lee Power is at fault for none of it.. trust me on that.

alta stare

WFC1930 wrote: »

Wow I’ve seen some dumb things said in this page but this is just.... yeah wow.. people talking about boycotting are you serious? Why exactly haha.

Lots of people are wrongly stating rules that don’t exist. There is no “you can’t play in Europe if you’re only 3 years old” rule.

The rule states that if we want to apply for a European license and we recently changed the company (NOT THE CLUB) than the new company that now owns the club (Power Grade Ltd) must show that all previous creditors are satisfied with the monies they are owed.

If we didn’t change our name to Waterford FC I genuinely think nobody would look at this the way it is being looked at. We are still the same club being ran by a new company. We never folded. The general fans are comparing us to other clubs who folded completely and never paid the debts of their old clubs. (Cork/Derry etc.) We never folded.

Dundalk had to go through this same process in 2012 when they got new owners who had the club under a different company name and they were fine. That is the situation we are in right now. Our old company owes money and the new company possessing the club right now needs to pay it.

And Stop comparing to the Derry situation cause they aren’t similar at all. Derry broke many financial fair play rules including offering double contracts and they also folded and started a brand new club.

In short if we pay off all our debts we will go to Europe. Most of the old debt of Waterford United left by John O’Sullivan and others was paid off however there are still a few debts hanging around I think l, most notably the 10k owed to Roddy Collins. Unless there’s something we aren’t being told that may prevent us going to Europe like other substantial debts (just for an example ONLY) but only time will tell on that one.

If you’d like to learn more about the rules go over to the twitter page of Reg Coppinger. She explains to lots of Dublin journalists and fans the rules in more detail throughout her tweets and replies.

Anyway my advice is after you do that stop worrying and focus on what’s a huge game tomorrow and stop talking nonsense about non existing rules and “Lee Power letting us down” and “the regime”.

It’s utterly embarrassing stuff especially after Power brought us from nothing to here in just two years. Regardless of what the outcome of all this is I can nearly say for certain Lee Power is at fault for none of it.. trust me on that.

Good post.

Go on to the LOI thread here and read the ****e by some of the posters. Some bitter posts have cropped up.

WFC1930

alta stare wrote: »

Good post.

Go on to the LOI thread here and read the ****e by some of the posters. Some bitter posts have cropped up.

I know I know.. I try to ignore other fans posts but seeing posts like that by WFC fans is disheartening to say the least.

alta stare

WFC1930 wrote: »

I know I know.. I try to ignore other fans posts but seeing posts like that by WFC fans is disheartening to say the least.

It appears to me some over on that forum would love to see us fail.

WFC1930

alta stare wrote: »

It appears to me some over on that forum would love to see us fail.

Absolutely.. people can be just plain dumb. I just seen a Cork fan say we should be turfed out of Europe if we haven’t honored our debts. Fair statement you might say but ironic out of a man who supports a club who in 2010 started a brand new club and never even attempted to pick up their debts. But because it’s fan owned it’s seen as some sort of a achievement. If they done what we done and went to pay of the debts they owe they’d be in a worse state than Wexford.

Max Powers

WFC1930 wrote: »

Wow I’ve seen some dumb things said in this page but this is just.... yeah wow.. people talking about boycotting are you serious? Why exactly haha.

Lots of people are wrongly stating rules that don’t exist. There is no “you can’t play in Europe if you’re only 3 years old” rule.

The rule states that if we want to apply for a European license and we recently changed the company (NOT THE CLUB) than the new company that now owns the club (Power Grade Ltd) must show that all previous creditors are satisfied with the monies they are owed.

If we didn’t change our name to Waterford FC I genuinely think nobody would look at this the way it is being looked at. We are still the same club being ran by a new company. We never folded. The general fans are comparing us to other clubs who folded completely and never paid the debts of their old clubs. (Cork/Derry etc.) We never folded.

Dundalk had to go through this same process in 2012 when they got new owners who had the club under a different company name and they were fine. That is the situation we are in right now. Our old company owes money and the new company possessing the club right now needs to pay it.

And Stop comparing to the Derry situation cause they aren’t similar at all. Derry broke many financial fair play rules including offering double contracts and they also folded and started a brand new club.

In short if we pay off all our debts we will go to Europe. Most of the old debt of Waterford United left by John O’Sullivan and others was paid off however there are still a few debts hanging around I think l, most notably the 10k owed to Roddy Collins. Unless there’s something we aren’t being told that may prevent us going to Europe like other substantial debts (just for an example ONLY) but only time will tell on that one.

If you’d like to learn more about the rules go over to the twitter page of Reg Coppinger. She explains to lots of Dublin journalists and fans the rules in more detail throughout her tweets and replies.

Anyway my advice is after you do that stop worrying and focus on what’s a huge game tomorrow and stop talking nonsense about non existing rules and “Lee Power letting us down” and “the regime”.

It’s utterly embarrassing stuff especially after Power brought us from nothing to here in just two years. Regardless of what the outcome of all this is I can nearly say for certain Lee Power is at fault for none of it.. trust me on that.

Good post, some pathetic posts on here from usual 'everything is rubbish' few