Waterford FC Thread

SteveWFC

Gardner wrote: »

Blues Supporters Club Committee and members of the block e boys were in attendance last Friday. The same people travelled to Drogheda last week all outside the 5km zones. So who gave them the permission to travel? Waterford FC? Waterford FC Covid officer? or the WFC Operations Manager?

I travel around Ireland to several different locations every week due to Work commitments but I have a letter to travel as the work I do is deemed essential. So did these members travel with a letter from Waterford FC? Waterford FC Covid officer? or the WFC Operations Manager? That's the million dollar question!

There were Blues fans in Finn Harps for the last game of 2020 and there have been Blues fans in Drogheda, Derry and Pats this season. I don’t know about Harps this season but I would guess that there were a couple.

The home team has the final say on who gets entry so the Blues can leave anyone they want into the RSC. For away games, the club submits a travel list to the FAI which is approved by the home team. If you’re in-the-loop and contact the right person you can get on the list and travel to an away game during a pandemic.

blacksuir

I am someone that sat in the RSC maybe twice, three times max's in my life, but always look out each week for the clubs results.

I admit I do not know what happens behind the scenes within the club, but reading whats said here in the last few days and which I read in the media, would I be correct in saying that there may be some players (maybe a lot of players) who feel that they think the manager and his assistant are not up to the job and this is why they did not take training one day during the week. Would it be a case that maybe they have had enough of them. If this is the case why did the players sign for the club while there was no management team in place, or did so knowing who was in charge.

In relatiion to the media, I did not hear WLR on Friday, and am wondering did Damien Tiernan give time on air to the announcement that the management team had walked out and then we were told he had not. If it was another sport I am sure that Damien Tiernan would have lead the programme with the news happenings within the group since his last show and be telling us about the exclusives that were coming up.

As I said I dont know what is happening within the club. Anyone care to share why Adrian FLannagan is not allowed inside the ground for home games. Someone told me recently that he had it on Twitter that he was stepping aside from reporting recently, but I saw he had a few pages filled in the N&S this week.

PTH2009

1-0 up already great start, we need a massive performance and hopefully we can hold out now, still a lot of time left

Always hate playing Longford Town

PTH2009

A 1-0 win for us thank and much needed. 2 very tough games coming up Dundalk at home and then Shamrock Rovers away

Prob my eyesight but im convinced sofascore had it 1-1 in the 2nd half, i could swear i got a notification

Mysterypunter

PTH2009 wrote: »

A 1-0 win for us thank and much needed. 2 very tough games coming up Dundalk at home and then Shamrock Rovers away

Prob my eyesight but im convinced sofascore had it 1-1 in the 2nd half, i could swear i got a notification

Might have been a red card notification, Ferguson got sent off, fair play to dizzee rascal, he's off the mark. On another note, there were mentions on this site about shoddy journalism, but you would have to go to beat this one. Today's "Irish"daily mirror, which was gifted to me, as I don't buy English rags, has a story by some muppet called Paul ohehir, previewing today's match. It says Kevin Sheedy and Mike Newell were back on the training ground after a day of drama on Thursday. It then says they did not attend a meeting over Brian Murphys situation. The next line is good, Reports claim the Ireland legend, and former Blackburn striker had quit the club. Then he says Sheedy has refused to answer questions about the vastly experienced goalkeepers omission. So he's gone from being a legendary Irish International striker, to a vastly experienced goalkeeper in 2 sentences. Even if you are mixing up your Murphys, that is ridiculous. Good result this evening and badly needed

Deisegodeo

Good win this evening, badly needed 3 points and hopefully we can kick on now. nice finish for the goal in fairness, but we were under some pressure in the second half, particularly after the red card, real backs to the wall stuff. Brian Murphy didn't start again, that issue clearly hasn't been resolved yet, but Martin did well in goal in fairness to the lad. tough games coming up so the win was crucial today.

scout353

Well this is an interesting read and some really valid points being made here.

https://www.munster-express.ie/sports/still-reasons-to-feel-blue/

PTH2009

Jesus it's a right weekend from hell incoming

Dundalk at home on Friday and then Rovers away on the 3rd May

hardybuck

PTH2009 wrote: »

Jesus it's a right weekend from hell incoming

Dundalk at home on Friday and then Rovers away on the 3rd May

Dundalk, Derry and Waterford have been the worst teams in the league so far this season. Dundalk seemed to have been a bit unlucky in some games and have had terrible goalkeeping issues, but I don't think Waterford should be too intimidated by them.

Rovers - a bit of a free hit I think. Realistically trying to keep the score down up there.

Gardner

scout353 wrote: »

Well this is an interesting read and some really valid points being made here.

https://www.munster-express.ie/sports/still-reasons-to-feel-blue/

If there was ever a reason for the Munster to get rid of Matt Keane then now is the best time. Jordon has asked some decent questions, more than what Matt Keane wouldn't dare to ask because he is too cushy with members of WFC.

hardybuck

Gardner wrote: »

If there was ever a reason for the Munster to get rid of Matt Keane then now is the best time. Jordon has asked some decent questions that Matt Keane wouldn't dare to ask because he is too cushy with members of WFC.

One of the better articles I've read from the Munster in a while.

scout353

Gardner wrote: »

Jordon has asked some decent questions, more than what Matt Keane wouldn't dare to ask because he is too cushy with members of WFC.

So if they are true to form, then Jordan should expect a ban from the RSC!

There will always be situations where a club will not comment on internal situations, despite fans believing that they have a right to know and over the last ten years or so, we have had some very interesting moments.

When Lee Power arrived in a blaze of glory, everybody was singing his praises - kinda similar to the way John O Sullivan arrived a prior to him. Sully did a lot of good but I think he allowed strong personalities (Collins, Henderson, etc) to dominate and ultimately take advantage of him.

However, Power's bona fides seem to be in question, judging by the stories coming out of Swindon (who have just been relegated) and he may not be the white knight we all hoped for. Trying to run a club from abroad cannot be the best way of operating and if some of the stories are to be believed, there are serious issues there.

The most recent story came from the players who confirmed that the two lads, said goodbye to them at training and walked off. A hasty rebuttal but as the saying goes, there's no smoke without fire.

There appears to be plenty of smoke at the moment, which must make things on the field very difficult.

As PTH2009 says, a huge weekend ahead - Dundalk are not a pushover and Rovers? Well, not much to be said there!

iseegirls

scout353 wrote: »

When Lee Power arrived in a blaze of glory, everybody was singing his praises -

Getting promoted from Division 1 after a long time, and playing great football in our first season back in the Premier Division a pretty good return for those first 2 years. Maybe some would rather go back to Roddy Collins back in charge and getting walloped at home. Losing the European spot had a huge effect on all that has happened since with quality players leaving and management changing. But I'd still rather be in the PL, then languishing in the 1st Division riddled with debt.

scout353

iseegirls wrote: »

Getting promoted from Division 1 after a long time, and playing great football in our first season back in the Premier Division a pretty good return for those first 2 years. Maybe some would rather go back to Roddy Collins back in charge and getting walloped at home. Losing the European spot had a huge effect on all that has happened since with quality players leaving and management changing. But I'd still rather be in the PL, then languishing in the 1st Division riddled with debt.

Agreed but if he doesn't step up and sort out the current mess, we could be back there fairly quickly!

The best players so far this season are the loanees who will be gone as soon as the window opens in July! As long as we are not adrift of the rest, there may still be hope at that stage.

hardybuck

iseegirls wrote: »

Getting promoted from Division 1 after a long time, and playing great football in our first season back in the Premier Division a pretty good return for those first 2 years. Maybe some would rather go back to Roddy Collins back in charge and getting walloped at home. Losing the European spot had a huge effect on all that has happened since with quality players leaving and management changing. But I'd still rather be in the PL, then languishing in the 1st Division riddled with debt.

There has to be some type of assessment or approval process to check the backgrounds of investors before the get involved. If there is one it must be fairly basic.

We have a situation here where a person acquired Waterford United and promptly shut that down to open up Waterford FC. I don't remember any consultation about that. Presumably he can do whatever he wants with that now - it looks like he's got effectively a franchise and a licence that he owns and he could take it somewhere else if he felt like it.

Also, he's been embroiled in court cases in the UK where the judge has cast doubts about the evidence that he has provided. That's a terrible stain on a person's character.

Media reports from England indicate that Swindon Town are hopelessly insolvent. An injunction was brought against him which prevented him from selling the club due a dispute around ownership, but he's apparently looking to offload it now at the moment.

I'd have Waterford playing in the first division for the next ten years if it meant we weren't relying on owners like this. While the guy has invested money, the club's history and reputation has been badly impacted by goings on since the current owners arrived.

Bohemians FC run on a membership model and break even at the end of the season. This should be the template for a club like Waterford to follow.

Dunmoreroader

hardybuck wrote: »

There has to be some type of assessment or approval process to check the backgrounds of investors before the get involved. If there is one it must be fairly basic.

We have a situation here where a person acquired Waterford United and promptly shut that down to open up Waterford FC. I don't remember any consultation about that. Presumably he can do whatever he wants with that now - it looks like he's got effectively a franchise and a licence that he owns and he could take it somewhere else if he felt like it.

Also, he's been embroiled in court cases in the UK where the judge has cast doubts about the evidence that he has provided. That's a terrible stain on a person's character.

Media reports from England indicate that Swindon Town are hopelessly insolvent. An injunction was brought against him which prevented him from selling the club due a dispute around ownership, but he's apparently looking to offload it now at the moment.

I'd have Waterford playing in the first division for the next ten years if it meant we weren't relying on owners like this. While the guy has invested money, the club's history and reputation has been badly impacted by goings on since the current owners arrived.

Bohemians FC run on a membership model and break even at the end of the season. This should be the template for a club like Waterford to follow.

Didn't they try that 20+ years ago? Must still be fellas with share certificates in some entity claiming to be Waterford United/FC.:rolleyes:
Good idea in theory, but how many fans with funds could Waterford FC attract to take a punt? How much money would be required to buy out Power and fund the club to stay in the Premier Division and break even year after year, say midtable with no qualification for Europe and no UEFA money?

scout353

I have seen other reports about the membership model and I don't think we have the support here. In reality, the cost of running a Premier League club is probably closer to a million euro a year than not....

Management Team, including coaches etc probably close to €150k
Players (25 x €300 average x 35 weeks) is €260k
Insurances for business and players probably at least €50k
Gear, equipment, footballs etc (I know there is sponsorship) €10k
Travel, meals, etc must hit 50k across the season
Costs of underage teams at least 50k
Other costs such as office, RSC hire, phones, etc €10k
Entry fees and cost of fines etc €20k

At a cursory glance that brings it to around €700k and I am sure I haven't thought of stuff!

If you divide that by 52 you are looking at €13.5k each and every week of the year.

To succeed as a member owned club, then you need to budget to cover that cost before a penny of sponsorship etc comes in. Is there an appetite for a commitment like that?

Like it or not we are probably stuck with a rich benefactor type - perhaps the Saudi's behind the NQP might be interested in a community initiative called Waterford FC!

hardybuck

scout353 wrote: »

I have seen other reports about the membership model and I don't think we have the support here. In reality, the cost of running a Premier League club is probably closer to a million euro a year than not....

Management Team, including coaches etc probably close to €150k
Players (25 x €300 average x 35 weeks) is €260k
Insurances for business and players probably at least €50k
Gear, equipment, footballs etc (I know there is sponsorship) €10k
Travel, meals, etc must hit 50k across the season
Costs of underage teams at least 50k
Other costs such as office, RSC hire, phones, etc €10k
Entry fees and cost of fines etc €20k

At a cursory glance that brings it to around €700k and I am sure I haven't thought of stuff!

If you divide that by 52 you are looking at €13.5k each and every week of the year.

To succeed as a member owned club, then you need to budget to cover that cost before a penny of sponsorship etc comes in. Is there an appetite for a commitment like that?

Like it or not we are probably stuck with a rich benefactor type - perhaps the Saudi's behind the NQP might be interested in a community initiative called Waterford FC!

At lot of sense in the above, but you're back to two important questions:

1. Is it realistic to expect benevolent owners to continually appear to pump money into a loss making venture?

2. Are you better off having an actual club - i.e. one which relies on the support of its members?

Bohs are a good example of a club that functions well with a membership model, but there's also Sligo who get by on really strong engagement with the local community and a big fundraising effort.

Shamrock Rovers appear to have a hybrid where you have members who have a proportion of the club, and a membership group who are like the trustees of the club. I think this option might be the ultimate of having the best of both worlds.

I don't think it would be unrealistic to sell 1,000 memberships at something around €300, especially when a season ticket is €150. You can throw in entry to the club lotto, an official jersey and other incentives to make it worthwhile. That'd get you a guaranteed €300k of income to fall back on before you've done anything else.

hardybuck

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Didn't they try that 20+ years ago? Must still be fellas with share certificates in some entity claiming to be Waterford United/FC.:rolleyes:
Good idea in theory, but how many fans with funds could Waterford FC attract to take a punt? How much money would be required to buy out Power and fund the club to stay in the Premier Division and break even year after year, say midtable with no qualification for Europe and no UEFA money?

Yeah but that's working on the basis that you're looking to bring in investment. I'm proposing something regarding membership.

Power should probably be walking away from the club if someone will take the debt that's been piled up.

scout353

You could own a club in Ireland for way less than the cost of one average player in the UK. I think that an initial investment of €10m could be enough to establish a club that is sustainable, challenge for honours and also gain European football.

Then you could build the community model, with membership and local involvement.

Most benevolent football owners do it as a vanity project. They have a link to a town and want to give something back perhaps.

Maybe John O Shea could entice a few of his mates to do something like the Class of 92, Salford FC project - would be far cheaper at Waterford!!!

hardybuck

scout353 wrote: »

You could own a club in Ireland for way less than the cost of one average player in the UK. I think that an initial investment of €10m could be enough to establish a club that is sustainable, challenge for honours and also gain European football.

Then you could build the community model, with membership and local involvement.

Most benevolent football owners do it as a vanity project. They have a link to a town and want to give something back perhaps.

Maybe John O Shea could entice a few of his mates to do something like the Class of 92, Salford FC project - would be far cheaper at Waterford!!!

John has always come across as a fairly intelligent guy, so I'd immediately rule him out on that basis!

blacksuir

iseegirls wrote: »

Getting promoted from Division 1 after a long time, and playing great football in our first season back in the Premier Division a pretty good return for those first 2 years. Maybe some would rather go back to Roddy Collins back in charge and getting walloped at home. Losing the European spot had a huge effect on all that has happened since with quality players leaving and management changing. But I'd still rather be in the PL, then languishing in the 1st Division riddled with debt.

True. I wonder who was behind selling the club to Lee Power in the first place. I doubt he just said he will come over to Ireland and buy Waterford United as it was at the time. If memory serves me right his Irish conections are in and around the Youghal area so if he was to look for a club on his own he surly would have gone for Cobh Ramblers or Cork City where his family connection would be closer to the club.

If someone from on-high was behind the sale of the club or played a part in it, knowing that he was going to pump x amount into the club they were going to challenge for promotion and then for a European Spot. Anyone behind the sale of the club should have known the rules and advised him NOT to have changed the name of the club.

I remember Catherine Power in the Munster Express saying that Waterford would not get a place in Europe after qualifying because of the name change, while on the same paper Matt Keane and Adrian Flanagan in the News and Star were celebrating the fact that Waterford would be in Europe the thrid season after Lee Power took over.

blacksuir

scout353 wrote: »

Agreed but if he doesn't step up and sort out the current mess, we could be back there fairly quickly!

The best players so far this season are the loanees who will be gone as soon as the window opens in July! As long as we are not adrift of the rest, there may still be hope at that stage.

I dont think it is right to blame Lee Power for all that is happening at the club. Nor might it be right to blame the Manager. Sometimes serious questions have to be asked of the players.

You might be right with the loan players. They have come over from England after playing youth or reserve team soccer and will feel that they have a point to prove, thinking if they come over here and do well they might become a first team player maybe not at the club they came from but certainly with another club.

blacksuir

hardybuck wrote: »

There has to be some type of assessment or approval process to check the backgrounds of investors before the get involved. If there is one it must be fairly basic.

We have a situation here where a person acquired Waterford United and promptly shut that down to open up Waterford FC. I don't remember any consultation about that. Presumably he can do whatever he wants with that now - it looks like he's got effectively a franchise and a licence that he owns and he could take it somewhere else if he felt like it.

Also, he's been embroiled in court cases in the UK where the judge has cast doubts about the evidence that he has provided. That's a terrible stain on a person's character.

Media reports from England indicate that Swindon Town are hopelessly insolvent. An injunction was brought against him which prevented him from selling the club due a dispute around ownership, but he's apparently looking to offload it now at the moment.

I'd have Waterford playing in the first division for the next ten years if it meant we weren't relying on owners like this. While the guy has invested money, the club's history and reputation has been badly impacted by goings on since the current owners arrived.

Bohemians FC run on a membership model and break even at the end of the season. This should be the template for a club like Waterford to follow.

I wonder was there someone else, maybe with links to the club behind the sale and maybe advising that a name change would go down well with the supporters, ie those that remember the great days that the club had of yesteryear.

blacksuir

scout353 wrote: »

You could own a club in Ireland for way less than the cost of one average player in the UK. I think that an initial investment of €10m could be enough to establish a club that is sustainable, challenge for honours and also gain European football.

Then you could build the community model, with membership and local involvement.

Most benevolent football owners do it as a vanity project. They have a link to a town and want to give something back perhaps.

Maybe John O Shea could entice a few of his mates to do something like the Class of 92, Salford FC project - would be far cheaper at Waterford!!!

I've often wondered why the players from Waterford and surrounding areas that go across channel and carve out a good living, it dont have to be the likes of John O'Shea at Man United, the likes of Jim Goodwin, the Hunt's etc dont get together and pump some money into the club. I know the two Murphy's have come back and signed for the club, even if they are not playing at the moment for what ever reason, it might get others interested.

hardybuck

blacksuir wrote: »

I've often wondered why the players from Waterford and surrounding areas that go across channel and carve out a good living, it dont have to be the likes of John O'Shea at Man United, the likes of Jim Goodwin, the Hunt's etc dont get together and pump some money into the club. I know the two Murphy's have come back and signed for the club, even if they are not playing at the moment for what ever reason, it might get others interested.

Sorry lads, you wouldn't mind handing over some of the cash ye earned over your careers in England and give it to Waterford would ye?

Waterford United/FC had absolutely zero input towards the careers of the likes of O'Shea, Goodwin and Stephen Hunt (with the exception of Noel Hunt who originally played with Shamrock Rovers), and certainly in that era didn't offer anything to schoolboy football in Waterford. Therefore they'd be better off giving money to Ferrybank, Bohs, Johnville and Tramore.

blacksuir

hardybuck wrote: »

Sorry lads, you wouldn't mind handing over some of the cash ye earned over your careers in England and give it to Waterford would ye?

Waterford United/FC had absolutely zero input towards the careers of the likes of O'Shea, Goodwin and Stephen Hunt (with the exception of Noel Hunt who originally played with Shamrock Rovers), and certainly in that era didn't offer anything to schoolboy football in Waterford. Therefore they'd be better off giving money to Ferrybank, Bohs, Johnville and Tramore.

Salford had absolutely zero input into the careers of the class of 92, yet they parted with their cash.

deisedude

blacksuir wrote: »

Salford had absolutely zero input into the careers of the class of 92, yet they parted with their cash.

Salford is the exception rather than the rule. How many other clubs do you see in the UK that are owned by ex-players

PTH2009

That name change came back to haunt us in the Europa League debacle in 2019

hardybuck

Anyway I can see that many people will happily cling onto a hope that benevolent owners will continue to come along and keep feeding the meter.

The latest one has a year left in him maximum I'd say. Once the Government stop pumping emergency Covid cash into the league I think he's out the gap. Swindon apparently bust too.

They'll probably go and beat Dundalk tomorrow just to keep it interesting.