About to Pull the Plug on Diesel

Gumbo

ok, so I've played around with getting an EV over the years, in fact was about to buy in 2012 but backed out after getting figures from Hutton & Meade Nissan.

By reading other threads, poster seem to recommend you start your own thread so you get the answers to what you need to know.

Background, car wise I'm no stranger. I've had a bit of everything over the years, Type R Hondas, Lancer Evo, V8 X5, 535d, 530d, 525d, Skoda VRS, Audi S3 plus more.

Currently driving a Mercedes ML 270 Crew Cab. (5 seater commercial)
Does 21mpg (manual calculations with brim test).

Hopefully it's sold in the next few days as I've viewings arranged.

Looking for Gen 2 SVE Leaf.
Budget is 11ish so I'm hoping to,do a deal with Phil as he has a white 6.6kw 131 version there. 48k km on the clock, he originally supplied it and the customer traded it back in for 30kw version. It has full battery and full history.

I do about 10,000km per year and that includes my driving for work. I have access to chargers in work (first come first serves basis so not guaranteed) but if I charge over night or close to full in evenings then my mileage should be covered.

What am I changing. I like tech I suppose.
I spend €50 per week on diesel, so I'm thinking this €50 will pay the small loan to buy the car.
Tax and service will be cheaper, currently 333 tax compared to 120.
Insurance will probably be same.

Questions
I apply for a public access card once I have log Book of car.
What's with all the different charger types?
Can I use any charger?
What app should I download (iOS)

isnottheword

kceire wrote: »

Questions
I apply for a public access card once I have log Book of car.

If you want to get a card in advance of getting the car (and are confident you'll be buying within the next number of weeks), email ecars and tell them that you are in the process of sourcing a car in the UK. You need the card in advance of actual purchase but you promise to provide full details to them once you actually have the car in your possession. If you agree to do that, they will likely help you out.

kceire wrote: »

What's with all the different charger types?

There are different charging standards. If you are looking at a Leaf, then Nissan provide 3 possibilities;
Fast Charging via Chademo
and
slow charging with a type one socket on car and type 2 on other end of the cable going in to the chargepoint - be that a public scp or your home chargepoint (at either 3.3kW or 6.6kW - the latter only if your Leaf has this option and if the chargepoint is 32amp rather than 16amp).
Lastly, you can trickle charge using a 'granny' charger i.e. type one socket on car to three pin plug on other end - into a standard plug socket in your home.

Be aware that charging cables are expensive - so pay attention to what you actually need (I don't have a granny cable and don't feel I ever need to invest in one...although some would disagree) and what's included with what you're proposing to buy.

kceire wrote: »

What app should I download (iOS)

-Nissan Connect / Carwings app - but it's of no use to you until you actually have a Leaf to use it with.
-ecars app (national charging network map, etc.).

KCross

If buying a Leaf...

I also use the EVA app. Much quicker and nicer interface than Nissan Connect and does the basics of starting charge and remote heating.

The Nissan connect app has more features but I find it slow to startup and the EVA features are usually all I need so I pick and choose the app I want depending on what I want to do.

And maybe leafspy if you want more details on the car telemetry and battery stats etc. I'd consider that more advanced and not required.

Evd-Burner

kceire wrote:

Looking for Gen 2 SVE Leaf. Budget is 11ish so I'm hoping to,do a deal with Phil as he has a white 6.6kw 131 version there. 48k km on the clock, he originally supplied it and the customer traded it back in for 30kw version. It has full battery and full history.

Double check on the gen 2 for a 131. I thought the gen 2 were from July produced cars only.

Calahonda52

KC, re the home charger, since you are not going new, its a paid for install, I would go with the 32 kW rig from the get go, even if the car is only 3.3 kW capable.
[I will want a fill now and again LOL]

You also need to look at tethered vs untethered. We have discussed this before.

I am getting a granny cable with my rig next week,[ as well as the normal cable] as I think its a useful product.

They sometimes come up for sale but make sure its compatible at the car plug end.

In passing, have you a day night meter yet and if so have you seen any competition in this market segment?

I would also look at Zap map on the desktop, its a uk site but the apps don't show the ROI stuff, the desktop does.

Calahonda52

isnottheword wrote: »

There are different charging standards. If you are looking at a Leaf, then Nissan provide 3 possibilities;
Fast Charging via Chademo
and
slow charging with a type one socket on car and type 2 on other end of the cable going in to the chargepoint - be that a public scp or your home chargepoint (at either 3.3kW or 6.6kW - the latter only if your Leaf has this option and if the chargepoint is 32amp rather than 16amp).
Lastly, you can trickle charge using a 'granny' charger i.e. type one socket on car to three pin plug on other end - into a standard plug socket in your home.

.

Can we take a stab at the charging rates/times here for a Leaf.?

The Fast Charge via CHAdeMO is fine: It's a 44 kW DC connection am happy with that : 80% in 20 minutes or something so thats okay.
My read is that this option bypasses the on board 3.3/6.6 kW charger

Am confused by the other options.
Home:
Option 1: 3.3kw car charger to 16 Amp home charger (esb only option for free install)
Option 2: 3.3kw car charger to 32 Amp home charger (self install)

Option 3: 6.6kw car charger to 16 Amp home charger (esb only option for free install)
Option 4: 6.6kw car charger to 32 Amp home charger (self install)

Option 5: 3.3kw car charger to 13 Amp granny cable
Option 6: 6.6kw car charger to 13 Amp granny cable.

On the road (non CHAdeMO):
Option 7: 3.3kw car charger to Type 2 AC socket 22kW
Option 8: 6.6kw car charger to Type 2 AC socket 22kW

Hotels:
Option 9: 3.3kW car to Type 2 AC socket 3.7kW
Option 10: 6.6kW car to Type 2 AC socket 3.7kW

[Maldron Hotel, Stockholm lane, Swords
Croke Park Hotel
Jurys inn
etc]]

Calahonda52

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Can we take a stab at the charging rates/times here for a Leaf.?

The Fast Charge via CHAdeMO is fine: It's a 44 kW DC connection am happy with that : 80% in 20 minutes or something so thats okay.
My read is that this option bypasses the on board 3.3/6.6 kW charger

Am confused by the other options.
Home:
Option 1: 3.3kw car charger to 16 Amp home charger (esb only option for free install)
Option 2: 3.3kw car charger to 32 Amp home charger (self install)

Option 3: 6.6kw car charger to 16 Amp home charger (esb only option for free install)
Option 4: 6.6kw car charger to 32 Amp home charger (self install)

Option 5: 3.3kw car charger to 13 Amp granny cable
Option 6: 6.6kw car charger to 13 Amp granny cable.

On the road (non CHAdeMO):
Option 7: 3.3kw car charger to Type 2 AC socket 22kW
Option 8: 6.6kw car charger to Type 2 AC socket 22kW

Hotels:
Option 9: 3.3kW car to Type 2 AC socket 3.7kW
Option 10: 6.6kW car to Type 2 AC socket 3.7kW

[Maldron Hotel, Stockholm lane, Swords
Croke Park Hotel
Jurys inn
etc]]

You're correct about everything except 22 Kw charging , it's only the Renault Zoe that can charge at this power and the Model S with optional dual 10 Kw chargers. The Leaf will charge at these 22 Kw charge points at 3.3 or 6.6 Kw , whatever charger is in the car.

Fast charging from 18-80% will take between 30-40 mins depending on "battery" temperature.

Calahonda52

Deleted User wrote: »

You're correct about everything except 22 Kw charging , it's only the Renault Zoe that can charge at this power and the Model S with optional dual 10 Kw chargers. The Leaf will charge at these 22 Kw charge points at 3.3 or 6.6 Kw , whatever charger is in the car.

Fast charging from 18-80% will take between 30-40 mins depending on "battery" temperature.

What I was hoping for was the times involved:
eg I have a 10% full 30kWh battery in my Leaf with 6.6 kw charger and I want to go to 100%.
How long will it take on
granny cable
16Amp home
32 Amp Home
22Kw Road

slave1

There are also 7kw chargers at train stations, additional benefit of free parking (up to 24 hours) whilst charging...

slave1

A Leaf will charge at several rates.

3-pin domestic plug
10Amps / ~2.2kW
10 to 12 hours (24kWh) / 12 to 15 hours (30kWh)
Requires EVSE Lead
Type 1 or Type 2 16A / 3.6kW
6 to 8 Hours (24kWh) / 9.5 hours (30kWh)
Type 1 or Type 2 30A / 6.6kW
3 to 4 Hours (24kWh) / 5.5 hours (30kWh)
Requires a both a 32A / 7kw post AND optional 6.6kW charger
£1150 option on Gen 2 LEAF

CHAdeMO Rapid 100A / 50kW
30 minutes to 80% for both 24 and 30kWh battery
Was optional on some Visia cars. Now standard on all models.

Charge Connectors and Leads


Leaf has two charge ports at the front of the car. The SAE J1772 Type 1 connector is for AC charging. The larger CHAdeMO connector is for DC rapid charging.

Charging from a domestic 3-pin plug requires a special EVSE cable. The domestic plug must be able to provide a full 10Amps of current for up to 15 hours. Nissan recommend a dedicated circuit. Most extension cords are not up to the task. Using an extension lead with the EVSE cable is not recommended.

Most home charge points for LEAF have a Type 1 lead attached. All you have to do is plug in the car.

Most UK public fast charge points have Type 2 sockets. Leaf can charge from these with a Type 2 to Type 1 adapting lead. If your LEAF does not have a lead, they are available from Nissan, Zero Carbon World, EV Connectors dot com and other sources.

To charge at the faster 6.6kW rate, you will need a LEAF with the 6.6kW option, a 32A/7kW charge point and a 32A lead. The car will set the charge rate to 16A if you don't have all three.


Type 1 charge points have a tethered lead. Rapid chargers have a tethered CHAdeMO lead.



Presently, a UK Leaf comes with a Type 2 to Type 1 cable and the Nissan EVSE. That wasn't always the case and older cars may not have come with both when new. A used LEAF comes with whatever is in the boot.


CHAdeMO DC rapid on the left. Type 1 (SAE J1772) AC port on the right. (Gen 2 LEAF shown. Gen 1 is similar


Nissan 32Amp Type1 to Type2 Lead. This is sometimes called a Mode3 Type 2 cable. The 16A cable looks very similar but has thinner wire. A car with the 6.6kW charger will sense the lead and select the correct charging rate.

Full post from here

https://speakev.com/threads/charging-the-leaf.28265/

Calahonda52

slave1 wrote: »

There are also 7kw chargers at train stations, additional benefit of free parking (up to 24 hours) whilst charging...

I see the one in Malahide dart station is 2 by 22kW Type 2 AC sockets

Have you a ref for a Train station with a 7kW pls?

100% will take much longer than for instance 95%.

0-100 should take about 4.5 Hrs there is 28 Kwh available but in reality 4 hrs might be more realistic at 6.6 Kw but you'll never have 0% left.

at a 22 Kw charge point it will take the same time as at home at 6.6 Kw because the 22 Kw charge points will charge at the same rate because the on-board charger is 6.6 Kw.

Granny cable is 10 amps , roughly 14 hrs

16 amps = 9 hrs 30 mins

Again, those times will be less because you'll always have some in the battery and then to get to 80% or 90% will be much less .

The last 5% takes a long time and it also has to balance the cells.

Remember not to set an end timer to give the cells time to fully balance because a pack that is badly out of balance will not give you full charge nor allow full discharge.

I only set an end timer if I want to charge for 2-3 Hrs to give me a top up when I don't need a full charge and I don;t want the car to charge for hours on peak rate electricity.

slave1

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I see the one in Malahide dart station is 2 by 22kW Type 2 AC sockets

Have you a ref for a Train station with a 7kW pls?

The Athlone train station is 7kW, you can zoom in on it on the ESB charge point map, it's coloured light green

Calahonda52

Ok, good stuff there ML and Slave which will be useful for others.
What are you guys doing up this early!
I am ups since 05:00!

slave1

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Ok, good stuff there ML and Slave which will be useful for others.
What are you guys doing up this early!
I am ups since 05:00!

Can't sleep, dry installing my chargepoint today, brain doing overtime

Calahonda52

slave1 wrote: »

The Athlone train station is 7kW, you can zoom in on it on the ESB charge point map, it's coloured light green

Interesting, not on Zapmap!

Calahonda52

slave1 wrote: »

Can't sleep, dry installing my chargepoint today, brain doing overtime

Are you going 32A, if so can you share the spec on the breaker and cable size.
I am having the ESB freebie done next week but I intend to upgrade, might even put in the two with an A/B or priority switch
I have the day night meter in since Thursday.

peposhi

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What I was hoping for was the times involved:
eg I have a 10% full 30kWh battery in my Leaf with 6.6 kw charger and I want to go to 100%.
How long will it take on
granny cable
16Amp home
32 Amp Home
22Kw Road

From own experience a few days a go -
On a FCP from 10% to 94% it took merely 40 mins

peposhi

If you are buying a home charge point, I have mine for sale as I got now 30kW Leaf and wish to replace the HCP. It's and ESB install, tethered, which I would be going again for as it is super handy for me not to take the cable out from the boot everytime I charge.

slave1

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Are you going 32A, if so can you share the spec on the breaker and cable size.
I am having the ESB freebie done next week but I intend to upgrade, might even put in the two with an A/B or priority switch
I have the day night meter in since Thursday.

It's routine 6sq SWA, I know some go for 10sq but I was told that unless you are over a 20m run then 6sq is more than adequate, I'm on a 10m run and 6sq will be handier for me to bend, tack to wall/fence and self install...will post photos on my Leafhunt thread

Gumbo

Thanks guys.

When I do a home charger install I will be going 32A for sure.

Most cars I look at seem to come with the granny cable and the public charging cable.

I was/am confused with regards to the charge stations and which socket is for what? So if I rock up to a public charge point, what do I connect to and what cable do I use?

I'll double check the Gen 2 versions they deffo available from 131 onwards, maybe the UK ones are 131 and ireland got them for 132?

goz83

slave1 wrote: »

Can't sleep, dry installing my chargepoint today, brain doing overtime

Take lots of photos.

Calahonda52

kceire wrote: »

I was/am confused with regards to the charge stations and which socket is for what? So if I rock up to a public charge point, what do I connect to and what cable do I use?

If you look at the legend on the left on the desktop version of zap map the sockets are all there.
The public cable for untethered CP's, the tethered cable when at a tethered CP, typically the fast charge ones, like the one in Topaz beside maldron Hotel at M1/M50 junction.
be aware that while the tethered fast CPs show three available on the ESB app, only one will fit the Leaf and only one car can charge at a time.

Calahonda52

slave1 wrote: »

It's routine 6sq SWA, I know some go for 10sq but I was told that unless you are over a 20m run then 6sq is more than adequate, I'm on a 10m run and 6sq will be handier for me to bend, tack to wall/fence and self install...will post photos on my Leafhunt thread

Thanks, whats the spec on the breaker.
I have a very short run, through the wall so a bit of 1.5 t&e

slave1

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Thanks, whats the spec on the breaker.
I have a very short run, through the wall so a bit of 1.5 t&e

Sorry, don't understand what you mean by 'breaker'?

Calahonda52

slave1 wrote: »

Sorry, don't understand what you mean by 'breaker'?

What is going on the board such as a RCBO, I gather the spec requires a 40Amp one with some special characteristics for dealing with DC surge: I may be watching too much Dexter!

See post 3 here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057629614

slave1

Oh, I'm only doing all the dry fit, the hook ups I'm leaving to the electrician, it will either be an ABB or Garo Priority Switch.
I won't be taking any photos I'm afraid, despite running all along my property and previously discussing with neighbour there was an unpleasant response this morning and I'm saying no more on the subject

Gumbo

peposhi wrote: »

If you are buying a home charge point, I have mine for sale as I got now 30kW Leaf and wish to replace the HCP. It's and ESB install, tethered, which I would be going again for as it is super handy for me not to take the cable out from the boot everytime I charge.

What's the details?

goz83

slave1 wrote: »

Oh, I'm only doing all the dry fit, the hook ups I'm leaving to the electrician, it will either be an ABB or Garo Priority Switch.
I won't be taking any photos I'm afraid, despite running all along my property and previously discussing with neighbour there was an unpleasant response this morning and I'm saying no more on the subject

Sorry about that. Some people change their minds with the weather. Hopefully it's resolved and/or they have no real reason to complain.

KCross

kceire wrote: »

Background, car wise I'm no stranger. I've had a bit of everything over the years, Type R Hondas, Lancer Evo, V8 X5, 535d, 530d, 525d, Skoda VRS, Audi S3 plus more.

Currently driving a Mercedes ML 270 Crew Cab. (5 seater commercial)
Does 21mpg (manual calculations with brim test).

You do like your German brands!

kceire wrote: »

Looking for Gen 2 SVE Leaf.
Budget is 11ish so I'm hoping to,do a deal with Phil as he has a white 6.6kw 131 version there. 48k km on the clock, he originally supplied it and the customer traded it back in for 30kw version. It has full battery and full history.

I think the Gen 1.5 cars came out in 132. Maybe its possible for a 131 to be a Gen 1.5 but that has to be rare. What colour is the interior? Do you have a picture of the centre console showing the A/C button. That will tell you definitively if its a Gen 1 or 1.5

kceire wrote: »

I do about 10,000km per year and that includes my driving for work. I have access to chargers in work (first come first serves basis so not guaranteed) but if I charge over night or close to full in evenings then my mileage should be covered.

Sounds perfect for EV but its not so much the total mileage that matters but the daily mileage. Do you ever do more than 100km in a day? If yes, how often and are there rapid chargers along that route?

kceire wrote: »

What's with all the different charger types?

I posted some details here about the different types of charging and charge times etc:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102642345&postcount=39


You mentioned the car is a Visia. Did you confirm it has rapid charging? Some of the Visia's dont.

Gumbo

KCross wrote: »

You do like your German brands!



I think the Gen 1.5 cars came out in 132. Maybe its possible for a 131 to be a Gen 1.5 but that has to be rare. What colour is the interior? Do you have a picture of the centre console showing the A/C button. That will tell you definitively if its a Gen 1 or 1.5



Sounds perfect for EV but its not so much the total mileage that matters but the daily mileage. Do you ever do more than 100km in a day? If yes, how often and are there rapid chargers along that route?



I posted some details here about the different types of charging and charge times etc:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102642345&postcount=39


You mentioned the car is a Visia. Did you confirm it has rapid charging? Some of the Visia's dont.

I've also had 2 Toyotas, a Mitsubishi to name some others

Yeah it's deffo a Gen 1.5, full black leather, I know the dash colour differences. Phil in electric Autos has it currently. Don't mind the dirt, it's getting cleaned this weekend I believe. It's an SVE 6.6kw version.

Can't remember the last time I done more than 100km myself. Other than trios with the family but we can use her 5 series for this trips so we would always have a back up.

I live in finglas, my desk is in Dublin City, and where I work on building sites, it's all north Dublin.