Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

ElTel

Fowler87 wrote: »

Paul Machin of the RMTV made a good point in his recent video re Lovren which is interesting. When he grafts, focuses and does the basics right as the "secondary" centre back he looks a solid defender. Its this arrogance and cocky ego that seems to let him down when he imagines himself to be some type of Geoff Hurst style footballer. Trying to be the one in the defensive line who breaks the play first with the crowd pleasing tackles/interceptions but with that risk, exposing his defence when he miss-times it, i.e. twice today. No harm being the understudy defender who just gets the job done.

No doubt we do need an upgrade in the position but I wouldn't discard Lovren just yet.

A monster in a sit back defense but a nightmare when he has to run to the full back spot as cover especially when he's first to the ball!
Gootta go.

Fcuk you Sakho.

mormank

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Should have had 50.00 on it .

There is no logical conclusion to this train of thought, bar bankruptcy.

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Coutinho and Firmino need to play closer together, having them on opposite wings neutralises their great link up play.

Doesn't klopp expect them to move about, they are not mandated to stay out there.

mada999

we have over achieved this season big time with all the injuries etc.. but other teams have been worse than us especially utd... we need them to languish in the europa league for a couple more seasons... and we need to qualify for the champs league this season...

just need to scrape over the line....
come on redmen!

jayo26

mada999 wrote: »

we have over achieved this season big time with all the injuries etc.. but other teams have been worse than us especially utd... we need them to languish in the europa league for a couple more seasons... and we need to qualify for the champs league this season...

just need to scrape over the line....
come on redmen!

How do you make out especially United have been worse then ye? Because we haven't scored 60 odd goals? Because at this point in time we have done better in two cups and and are still in a European cup and are just behind ye in the league with two more games to play.

noodler

jayo26 wrote: »

How do you make out especially United have been worse then ye? Because we haven't scored 60 odd goals? Because at this point in time we have done better in two cups and and are still in a European cup and are just behind ye in the league with two more games to play.

Aye, I think something people still think we are challenging for the league.

Great first half, poor second half, all averages out to about where we should be for me.

Pyjamarama

jayo26 wrote: »

How do you make out especially United have been worse then ye? Because we haven't scored 60 odd goals? Because at this point in time we have done better in two cups and and are still in a European cup and are just behind ye in the league with two more games to play.

Because for most of the season we've been ahead of you in the league. I don't think many non biased fans would argue that for most of the season Liverpool have played better than United (in the league).

Pyjamarama

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Because for most of the season we've been ahead of you in the league. I don't think many non biased fans would argue that for most of the season Liverpool have played better than United (in the league).

Liverpool went on impressive run but was more applicable in 2016
Utds form in 2017 has been steadily getting better while Liverpools has been dipping and the same old stuff creeping back (shoddy defending against relegation opposition)

Knex*

United are unbeaten in 23 games in the league. Fair enough they've way too many draws, but I wouldn't exactly be lording our performances over theirs.

jayo26

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Because for most of the season we've been ahead of you in the league. I don't think many non biased fans would argue that for most of the season Liverpool have played better than United (in the league).

No ye have played a different style of football but that's only been effective in probably half of the games. Liverpool have played with one gameplay and yes it looks nice and lovely when ye play a team that tries to attack ye but when they sit back and allow ye have the ball it is nullified and it gets laborious just the same as United's has at times.

A non biased fan will say that Liverpool have played Nicer football then United and ye have been more successful attacking but have been terrible defending.

A non biased fan will accept that United had 2 terrible months at the start of the season but they have gained nearly 10 points on ye since then while having the second best defence in the league but still creating lots of chances in the other end.

Let's face it here United,City,Liverpool and arsenal have played well for parts this season but with one month left of this season none of them have been above each other Liverpool have played Nicer football but apart from that United look more solid and gave adapted to more games styles and tactics.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Aye, I think something people still think we are challenging for the league.

Great first half, poor second half, all averages out to about where we should be for me.

We seem to struggle without Mane.

Matip and Wij' are good first teamers and successful signings but Mane is a level or two above them IMO.

Morzadec

jayo26 wrote: »

No ye have played a different style of football but that's only been effective in probably half of the games. Liverpool have played with one gameplay and yes it looks nice and lovely when ye play a team that tries to attack ye but when they sit back and allow ye have the ball it is nullified and it gets laborious just the same as United's has at times.

A non biased fan will say that Liverpool have played Nicer football then United and ye have been more successful attacking but have been terrible defending.

A non biased fan will accept that United had 2 terrible months at the start of the season but they have gained nearly 10 points on ye since then while having the second best defence in the league but still creating lots of chances in the other end.

Let's face it here United,City,Liverpool and arsenal have played well for parts this season but with one month left of this season none of them have been above each other Liverpool have played Nicer football but apart from that United look more solid and gave adapted to more games styles and tactics.

Wouldn't argue with too much of that.

Liverpool's peak performances this season have been clearly superior to United's peak performances which may be muddying the waters a bit. Liverpool have had some performances which looked like the performances of title winners whereas United haven't really had many performances that you would say is better than decent/solid.

But that's obviously not all there is to it and both teams basically deserve to be around where they are in the table.

I still think Liverpool should pip the others to 4th. , and if we do we can say we were better. If we don't manage it we won't deserve it - all those scintillating performances at the start of the year won't count for much if you can't get over the line when it matters against weaker teams

jayo26

Morzadec wrote: »

Wouldn't argue with too much of that.

Liverpool's peak performances this season have been clearly superior to United's peak performances which may be muddying the waters a bit. Liverpool have had some performances which looked like the performances of title winners whereas United haven't really had many performances that you would say is better than decent/solid.

But that's obviously not all there is to it and both teams basically deserve to be around where they are in the table.

I still think Liverpool should pip the others to 4th. , and if we do we can say we were better. If we don't manage it we won't deserve it - all those scintillating performances at the start of the year won't count for much if you can't get over the line when it matters against weaker teams

Sorry but Bournemouth can have performances that make them look like title winners but that won't make them better.

I won't disagree that pool have looked good at times this season you are right they have but they have also looked really bad against teams in the bottom half of the table does that make them look like a title challenger too? No It makes them look just what they are and that's a team that's capable if beating anyone on their day but realisticly they are defensively and mentally weak and one dimensionally tactically.

United performances some of our games while not all swashbuckling fancy football have been tactically excellent and nice attacking football but we just haven't had the end result of scoring 3 or 4 goals in some games.

We have had games where we look like we are not going to break threw a defence to grab a goal but apart from the Chelsea game which was the last game we lost in the league we have not looked like been run over by a team and we rarely look like were going to get beaten you can not say that about Liverpool.

My point is that while pool might look better and yes you probably will get top four but if he do it will be stumbling across the line and won't be because he were far superior to United as the original poster think it was mada stated.

Nalz

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So if we lose Cunty to Barca it will be a double blow, very costly.

C'unty?

Nalz

monkey9 wrote: »

We've qualified for the Champions League once in the last eight years. This is Klopp's first full season and we're in the Champions League places with four games to play. Klopp is doing fine.

Also, you can add to that is the league the last two seasons has been as tight as ever.

hefferboi

This might sound stupid but I think we should keep Moreno for as long as we can. Him and Coutinho are always together. Forever putting stuff up on social media together and celebrated the goal together yesterday. Having Moreno would keep Coutinho comfortable in Liverpool.

GBX

hefferboi wrote: »

This might sound stupid but I think we should keep Moreno for as long as we can. Him and Coutinho are always together. Forever putting stuff up on social media together and celebrated the goal together yesterday. Having Moreno would keep Coutinho comfortable in Liverpool.

Whilst I understand your sentiment and the same came out in the Torres article about when he moved to Liverpool having Reina and Alonso at the club. I doubt Moreno will stay just to be a benchwarming security blanket for Coutinho

corwill

hefferboi wrote: »

This might sound stupid but I think we should keep Moreno for as long as we can. Him and Coutinho are always together. Forever putting stuff up on social media together and celebrated the goal together yesterday. Having Moreno would keep Coutinho comfortable in Liverpool.

Offer him to Everton on a free.

Sappy404

I seriously doubt Coutinho will stay at the club this summer. Imagine playing as well as he did yesterday and once again coming away with nothing? I'd say he made up his mind as soon as we brought on an 18yo defender after going a goal down.

Boom_Bap

A few things I yammer on about here alot.

Lovren - stop trying to be fancy, keep it simple. He tried to be fancy yesterday and it allowed Palace to get on the front foot for their attack....why are you trying a f*cking diving header to clear a ball near the sideline???
And when you are defending a corner and a big fella starts to cut in front of you, get in his f*cking way and abandon the zone. Doesn't help that Can stood still either.

We were passing the ball accross the back way too much yesterday allowing the 10 man defence to assemble. It's too slow and predictable.

We should also re-instate Moreno at left back. The pattented Milner hoof up the line is getting us nowhere. Alberto will try to get up the wing interchanging passes faster than Milner.
Get Milner in the middle to try get us moving the ball quicker throught he middle of the park. Can can't do this, neither can Lucas.

noodler

Sappy404 wrote: »

I seriously doubt Coutinho will stay at the club this summer. Imagine playing as well as he did yesterday and once again coming away with nothing? I'd say he made up his mind as soon as we brought on an 18yo defender after going a goal down.

Worried about this as well.

Won the free kick, scored the free kick - team collapses around him.

Knex*

Lovren drove me mental yesterday. Haven't really had much issue with him this year, not to the same extent as others anyway, but he had some unforgivable defensive moments yesterday and not just for their goals.

Sappy404

Sappy404 wrote: »

I seriously doubt Coutinho will stay at the club this summer. Imagine playing as well as he did yesterday and once again coming away with nothing? I'd say he made up his mind as soon as we brought on an 18yo defender after going a goal down.

noodler wrote: »

Worried about this as well.

Won the free kick, scored the free kick - team collapses around him.

If we don't get CL he'll more than likely leave, he's 25 in June and has been with us over 3 years now.

Players no doubt worry about future injuries etc so he might be keen to go while the going is good so to speak.

Even with CL he presumably would prefer to be playing for Barca than LFC

With Lallana and firmino about for the #10 role we mightn't miss him hugely if we got a seriously good striker.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

noodler wrote: »

Worried about this as well.

Won the free kick, scored the free kick - team collapses around him.

The issue for me here would be: is Klopp capable of/interested in sorting out the defense?

I know he's an attack minded manager and I'm not for one second suggesting he should be gotten rid of, but he's had nearly two full seasons and not only do I see no improvement, but I see no difference in even acknowledging the issue. New defenders won't change this.

And were going to lose a lot mroe than just Coutinho if things continue in this vein.

Sappy404

I reckon 9 points from the last 4 games for a total of 75 points could be enough. I think United will lose away to Spurs and get draws away to Arsenal and Man City (totaling 74 pts), who themselves will probably win the rest of their games (80 pts).

Arsenal would need 19 points from their last 7 games to beat 75.

That said, I've lost all faith after yesterday and I think we're going to sh*t the bed. Ah well.

ricero

Sappy404 wrote: »

I reckon 9 points from the last 4 games for a total of 75 points could be enough. I think United will lose away to Spurs and get draws away to Arsenal and Man City (totaling 74 pts), who themselves will probably win the rest of their games (80 pts).

Arsenal would need 19 points from their last 7 games to beat 75.

That said, I've lost all faith after yesterday and I think we're going to sh*t the bed. Ah well.

unfortunately i too feel the same way. A bit of pressure on this group of players and they folded yet again. its been the same even before klopp and during rodgers time at the club. Not enough leaders on the pitch.

Of all the games we have left i am only confident of getting a result against borough on the last day of the season. The other games are coin flips and i am not confident against the saints and west ham due to our recent records the past couple of seasons against them. Hopefully man u **** the bed and it starts this thursday

Sappy404

ricero wrote: »

unfortunately i too feel the same way. A bit of pressure on this group of players and they folded yet again. its been the same even before klopp and during rodgers time at the club. Not enough leaders on the pitch.

Of all the games we have left i am only confident of getting a result against borough on the last day of the season. The other games are coin flips and i am not confident against the saints and west ham due to our recent records the past couple of seasons against them. Hopefully man u **** the bed and it starts this thursday

The problem with needing to win on the last day of the season is the games are more likely to have a surprise in store. They tend not to go according to plan. Boro's defense is decent, too, and we know what that means.

Sappy404

Sappy404 wrote: »

I reckon 9 points from the last 4 games for a total of 75 points could be enough...............

To be fair, you won't get 4 easy PL games on the trot too often. Add in the bit of pressure we are under to hold onto Top4 and the injuries etc and you have a little storm.

3 wins and a draw
3 wins and a loss
2 wins and 2 draws

None of the above 3 bad form over 4 games, the first two should be enough, the 2 wins and 2 draws might not.

I fear a mini Jan/Feb to be honest.

Knex*

I think we need to upgrade our Southampton purchase scheme to a Bayer Leverkusen one.

Throw the proverbial kitchen sink at them and take Leno, Tah, Brandt and Volland. Feck it, we'll take Wendell the Brazilian left back as well while we're at it. Just go mad with it. Get real silly.

Sappy404

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair, you won't get 4 easy PL games on the trot too often. Add in the bit of pressure we are under to hold onto Top4 and the injuries etc and you have a little storm.

3 wins and a draw
3 wins and a loss
2 wins and 2 draws

None of the above 3 bad form over 4 games, the first two should be enough, the 2 wins and 2 draws might not.

I fear a mini Jan/Feb to be honest.

Yep. Aside from picking up points ourselves, we are entirely reliant on two of the following happening:

- United reverting to type after 3 great league results on the spin
- Man City dropping 2 clangers against lesser teams after losing/drawing the United game
- Arsenal's poor form continuing in spite of their proven record of pulling it out of the bag when needed to land a CL spot

Thanks be to Jasus for the Europa League. Even Arsenal in the cup final is a welcome distraction for them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

corwill wrote: »

Offer him to Everton on a free.

Straight swap for Baines, LB sorted.

And Sakho to paint the new stadium as a sweetener. If it ever gets built before Sakho retires, that is...

Knex*

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Straight swap for Baines, LB sorted.

And Sakho to paint the new stadium as a sweetener. If it ever gets built before Sakho retires, that is...

You just know that Baines would instantly turn to muck playing for us though.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Knex. wrote: »

You just know that Baines would instantly turn to muck playing for us though.

.... as would just about any defender we buy.

Eircom_Sucks

Ansolute pain in the hole with this crap

Klopp has to know the defence is bloody shocking , if he doesn't address this in the summer i will lose alot of respect for him and will prob assume he ain't the man to lead us forward

Lovren / matip / klavan if its not 1 the other is injured , they are nowhere near a standard we need end of

Mignolet or karius don't get me started

Pray to god we scrap the 4th

If the mancs finish 4th and win europa do we as 5th assuminv we finished 5th get that champions league place ?

Umaro

If the mancs finish 4th and win europa do we as 5th assuminv we finished 5th get that champions league place ?

No

People are getting desperate if these are the questions of the day.

ERG89

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

If United finish 4th and win Europa do we as 5th assuming we finished 5th get that champions league place ?

The real question is I wonder if we don't get a champions league place will Jurgen finally actually work on our defending which has been absolutely f**king atrocious for 4 seasons now.

Utopia Parkway

ERG89 wrote: »

The real question is I wonder if we don't get a champions league place will Jurgen finally actually work on our defending which has been absolutely f**king atrocious for 4 seasons now.

You're assuming that they don't work on it? Before the WBA game they apparently devoted whole training sessions to defending set-pieces. They defended well in that game for the most part.

Then against Palace, Lovren makes a stupid mistake that lets a Cabaye who can barely run in behind him. And for the second Firmino has a chance to clear at the near post. Misses the ball entirely. Can who had been marking and goal side of Benteke just lets him go inexplicably.

Is it the system or is it the players? Because they are all individual errors. If the players won't learn then they need to be replaced with someone who can learn.

BorneTobyWilde

mormank wrote: »

There is no logical conclusion to this train of thought, bar bankruptcy.

I'd have at least 15 euro on it. No point otherwise.

Utopia Parkway

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

........ And for the second Firmino has a chance to clear at the near post. Misses the ball entirely. Can who had been marking and goal side of Benteke just lets him go inexplicably.............

Firmino is blameless for that IMO, it's football, split second stuff.

Can on the other hand, inexcusable, even accepting it's football

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

You're assuming that they don't work on it? Before the WBA game they apparently devoted whole training sessions to defending set-pieces. They defended well in that game for the most part.

Then against Palace, Lovren makes a stupid mistake that lets a Cabaye who can barely run in behind him. And for the second Firmino has a chance to clear at the near post. Misses the ball entirely. Can who had been marking and goal side of Benteke just lets him go inexplicably.

Is it the system or is it the players? Because they are all individual errors. If the players won't learn then they need to be replaced with someone who can learn.

If it was an idolated game, maybe. But how many times have we thrown away points due to one defensive lapse? There are patterns there and you really can't ignore them

Sky said we have conceded 7/8 goals from corners in the PL, I thought it'd be more than that tbh.

Agent Coulson

Probably a big pile of you know what..


Stories starting to appear that we are leading the chase for Douglas Costa now that will be one great player to look at for a few months and not close the deal on in the end.

paulie21

Augeo wrote: »

Sky said we have conceded 7/8 goals from corners in the PL, I thought it'd be more than that tbh.

Actually think we've been alright dealing with set pieces. Crosses from open play with defenders not knowing where to be is more of a problem

Agent Coulson

paulie21 wrote: »

Actually think we've been alright dealing with set pieces. Crosses from open play with defenders not knowing where to be is more of a problem

Agree we are ok with set pieces.

It's not even knowing where to be it's our two fullbacks are so far up the pitch our CB's have to split and therefore we are left totally open for the counterattack.


We play basically play a 1 2 8 system in open play and at time one of the 2 joins the 8 so we become a 1 1 9 system.

Bandana boy

If Memory serves me right on average a premier league team concedes from 3% of corners

We have had 117 corners to defend so far and conceded 8 or 7%
Over twice as bad as the average in the league


We have taken 232 corners at 3% that would be scored 7 goals from corners
Not sure what the actual is here but i can only remember 2 goals from corners

That would suggest we are well below average on both attacking and defending corners
Size of our team probably plays a part.

BullBlackNova

Bandana boy wrote: »

If Memory serves me right on average a premier league team concedes from 3% of corners

We have had 117 corners to defend so far and conceded 8 or 7%
Over twice as bad as the average in the league

We have taken 232 corners at 3% that would be scored 7 goals from corners
Not sure what the actual is here but i can only remember 2 goals from corners

That would suggest we are well below average on both attacking and defending corners
Size of our team probably plays a part.

Not exactly - 3% of the corners created in the league result in goals on average.

We have conceded 12 goals from set pieces this season (don't have a break down of free kicks/corners on Whoscored, just the overall figure). Stoke, Southampton, Palace, Hull and Leicester are the only teams who conceded more from set pieces, we're the same as Watford.

In contrast, Man United conceded just 4, Chelsea 5, WBA and Arsenal 6, Spurs 7, City, 8 and Swansea 9.

We have also scored 12 from set pieces, which is the same number as Everton and is a total bettered only by Chelsea, WBA, Hull, West Ham and Swansea.

In contrast, Man United and Man City have just 7 set piece goals scored, Spurs 9 and Arsenal 10. Sunderland have just 2...

Again - no breakdown of corner/free kick, just the overall figures.

Defending set pieces is obviously a major issue for us. We're double that of the teams we are trying to beat to a top 4 spot - that could definitely prove costly.

Those stats suggest we don't do badly in attacking terms, but I feel it may be skewed a little by free kicks from Coutinho because I don't recall a huge amount of corner kick goals this season for us. Unless Skrtel and Hyppia have popped up again and I've missed them, that is.

Anyway, I don't have any great insight into how we fix that but here's the stats link if anyone wants a look.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/6335/Stages/13796/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017

citytillidie

I have only one question about yesterday's game why was Sakho on the bench? Found it strange during the game, should he not have been in the stands

Kerrigooney

citytillidie wrote: »

I have only one question about yesterday's game why was Sakho on the bench? Found it strange during the game, should he not have been in the stands

Dunno about Sakho but Lovren definitely should be in the stands for the rest of the season.

ricero

I just hope the players pull it together for the last few games and yesterdays defeat didnt damage them. Watford away monday with the pressure on us will be difficult assuming city and utd are ahead of us by then.

Still think a city win would be the best result thursday rather than a draw as city have a easy enough run in with most games at home while utd have tough away games along with the europa league in between

Harry Palmr

Lovren is the worst type of defender - one that thinks he can play football.