Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

eyerer

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Knex. wrote: »

Isco & Asensio both reported within a week. Watch now it'll all stem from a Liverpool representative being at one Real game when on his holidays, or something.

Isn't  Woodgate a former Real player our scout over there.

Woodgate isn't a scout with Liverpool any more.
I won't hold my breath on signing Madrid players, but it would be very good if it happened lol

Scouting Real Madrid players..... sounds ludicrous.

Gbear

Augeo wrote: »

Scouting Real Madrid players..... sounds ludicrous.

Not really.

There's a steady stream of cast-offs from these clubs.

mosstin

eyerer wrote: »

Woodgate isn't a scout with Liverpool any more.
I won't hold my breath on signing Madrid players, but it would be very good if it happened lol

Hola.

~Rebel~

Gbear wrote: »

Not really.

There's a steady stream of cast-offs from these clubs.

Yeah definitely, cast off's from the giant teams are the absolute best place to go shopping, when they're looking for the next shiny thing. Arsenal have done very well with that, getting in Ozil and Sanchez... it's been their other substandard signings that have caused their problems.

eyerer

mosstin wrote: »

eyerer wrote: »

Woodgate isn't a scout with Liverpool any more.
I won't hold my breath on signing Madrid players, but it would be very good if it happened lol

Hola.

Champions League winner.. lol.
I meant players like Isco and Asensio.. Agree with Gbear. Madrid get rid of some great players.

murpho999

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Knowing how the PR machine works these days, it's probably an announcement of when the new kit will be unveiled.

You got that 100% right. They're unveiling the new jersey on Thursday.

https://twitter.com/NBFootball/status/856946010974715905

Gbear

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yeah definitely, cast off's from the giant teams are the absolute best place to go shopping, when they're looking for the next shiny thing. Arsenal have done very well with that, getting in Ozil and Sanchez... it's been their other substandard signings that have caused their problems.

It's the standard formula and you're possibly seeing it again with James Rodriguez.

Buy the next big thing around 21-23 and **** him off at 25/26 when he's not literally the best player ever, or else because you're three managers down the road and they want to go in a different direction.

If Zidane doesn't win La Liga, then I would imagine things will be put on hold a bit until they find his replacement, but it would probably lead to even more players being moved on.

As a bonus, they tend to be the only ones who can nick players off our rivals.

Another thing is Real's academy is ludicrous and the half of the players in Spain who didn't come from La Masia probably came from there - the likes of Mata, Diego Lopez, Juanfran, Saul Niguez, our own Arbeloa and of course they often end up buying them back.

Wonder how long Morata will last.
Not sure I rate him as the sort of £50m signing he's likely to be but he'll probably be another one booted out the door.

ricero

James pearce saying tonight that the club are willing to break our transfer record for van diijk. Also sports bild in germany are claiming we are in for douglas costa

brevity

Augeo wrote: »

Authoritive, takes limited messing and ruthless if you overstep the well defined line.

Not a bad way to be.

More than a bit stubborn, frustrating when purchasing players.

Harry Palmr

ricero wrote: »

James pearce saying tonight that the club are willing to break our transfer record for van diijk. Also sports bild in germany are claiming we are in for douglas costa

Just read that bild article, it is only repeating claims made elsewhere. Just clickbait stuff for now.

marklazarcovic

Be pretty surprised if Bale is at Madrid next season too

Gbear

If Klopp thinks Van Dijk is near enough the best CB in the world, that he'll be able to handle the ludicrous pressure of that price tag alongside playing for the ****test team in the world for a defender to play in, then maybe it'll be worth boxing that position off even at that cost.

However, while we don't have the best defence in the world, personnel wise, there's systemic issues around the position of our full backs, the fact that one of them isn't a full back, the inability to form a consistent CB partnership, much less back 5, being a squad of midgets and the lack of DMs in the squad that IMO have by far the biggest impact.

Spurs have the best defenders in the league 1-4 and a usually excellent keeper behind them. Then they've got a very busy midfield in front of that.
That's rock solid.
Chelsea, on the other hand... meh. Other than Kante, that's all about the system.
They're level on goals conceded or near enough.

Spending 50m on a CB when you nearly need to spend the same again on full back and DM, and you're an attacking team that's going to systematically leave your defence in the lurch week after week regardless who's playing in it, doesn't strike me as good value for money.

I like the idea of boxing positions off even at inflated fees, but I don't think we have that kind of money to throw around on a CB, even with the supposed 200m warchest.
If you get a £50m striker that can transform a side. I don't think Van Dijk would even if individually he'd be very good and massive improvement on, say, Lovren.


Also, if City, Chelsea or Utd want him, they'll get him, unless we really get silly, in which case he'd be an even worse use of our resources.

chicorytip

ricero wrote:

James pearce saying tonight that the club are willing to break our transfer record for van diijk. Also sports bild in germany are claiming we are in for douglas costa

Van Diijk is overrated as is Keane. Gabriel, of Arsenal, is impressive. Harry Maguire looks a good all rounder. A specialist defensive coach is a much needed acquisition in any event.

Ferris_Bueller

£50m for Van Diijk would be madness. Would hate to see us buy him for that price, as Gbear said I don't think he would bring £50ms worth of improvement to our defence. I would rather see that spent on 2 or 3 players across the backline, how many defenders on the planet are worth £50m? Maybe someone like Chelsea, United or City will splash that much on him but we aren't in a position to waste so much money on a player who is by no means a guaranteed performer.

~Rebel~

Yeah, unless we're planning on spending 300+ million, van dijk at 50m would be insanity. Double what we should be spending on a CB.

super_furry

Don't really care what the fee is as long as we get the right players.

ricero

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yeah, unless we're planning on spending 300+ million, van dijk at 50m would be insanity. Double what we should be spending on a CB.

Reckon it will only happen if we make champions league. Thats the price these days for a premier league centre half sure stones went for 50 and hes not worth half the price imo.

Reckon with the sales of sturridge, sakho and moreno etc will provide klopp with plenty of extra cash to get his targets.

If klopp wants the players then the club should back him all the way. Got to trust the manager

Gbear

super_furry wrote: »

Don't really care what the fee is as long as we get the right players.

It isn't about getting value for money on a transfer for the sake of it. It's about spending limited resources efficiently.

We won't be able to match our rivals £ for £ and certainly not when you take a few years into account.
Then you have to account for them mostly having better players than us to begin with.

Utd can just spend 300m every summer until they get it right by accident.

We need to be some combination of being better coached or more efficiently put together to close the gap.

NukaCola

At what point do we just bite the bullet and sign up the Southampton recruitment team......

~Rebel~

NukaCola wrote: »

At what point do we just bite the bullet and sign up the Southampton recruitment team......

Or just buy the club. Getting close to the stage where that would have been cheaper.

Osmosis Jones

To suddenly see people saying "X amount of money is too much to spend on so and so" is bizarre after so many Januarys and summers of "just pay the asking price and stop faffing about."

BorneTobyWilde

Keeping Sturridge as an ornament could be an option. We need a bigger squad, would be great to pull him off the shelf when fit. He needs replacing of course, as does Suarez. Taking TOO LONG to bring in a proven striker.

~Rebel~

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

To suddenly see people saying "X amount of money is too much to spend on so and so" is bizarre after so many Januarys and summers of "just pay the asking price and stop faffing about."

Well, except that it's entirely possible that the people saying A, are not the same people who said B...

Look, at the end of the day we have to trust the manager. If he believes that spending between 1/4 and 1/2 of our entire budget on a CB is the right way to go, then so be it. As long as the other key positions that need strengthening are in fact strengthened adequately, i'm fine with whatever ratio of spending he decides upon. But if we end up spending that much on a CB, and don't have absolutely top quality options elsewhere when the window shuts, I'll be disappointed.

As an aside, i just don't see CB as an area where a 20m difference buys you all that much. Like, you'll get an absolutely top quality CB for 30m. Meanwhile, the difference between a 30m wingforward/striker will get you a very different player to 50m.

corwill

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

To suddenly see people saying "X amount of money is too much to spend on so and so" is bizarre after so many Januarys and summers of "just pay the asking price and stop faffing about."

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

It is if you buy from another English team. VVD's stock is high so you'll pay a premium price to get him.

Harry Palmr

If a club want a player wanted by one of Chelsea/Utd/City they will have to pay a premium and have something to offer in wages and obviously CL football. We don't even know if the latter is part of the Liverpool armoury yet! In other words best not to spend much time thinking about this.

OwaynOTT

Jovanni Rhythmic Ladybug wrote: »

But we didn't compromise, Klopp/FSG just sat on their hands, did nothing and bought no one. Even thou they were well aware of what Nukacola has just outlined. We were well in the hunt for the title and they did f?ck all. Now we are struggling to get top four, banking on other teams to mess up.

Criminal carry on from one or both parties.

Good luck to both Sturridge and Sakho when they eventually leave at the end of the season. Both lacking either the mental fortitude or mental capability to play for Liverpool. Neither could be relied upon by us for one reason or another the last couple of seasons.

I know we didn't compromise. I was saying sometimes one has to compromise when they can't get what they want but we didn't and as you rightly said, it has bitten us on the tush.
I'd say Klopp was only spinning the story anyway.

corwill

mosstin wrote: »

It is if you buy from another English team. VVD's stock is high so you'll pay a premium price to get him.

I get that he's not available for less. I'm just not sold on it being a good use of whatever transfer funds are available, either by reference to what a CB from elsewhere might cost, or by reference to other areas of the team where the money might be spent. Is he really that much better than the likes of Ben Gibson, or Winston Reid, or (god forgive me) Scott Dann? He's looked good against us a few times, but sure who hasn't?

BorneTobyWilde

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

I get that he's not available for less. I'm just not sold on it being a good use of whatever transfer funds are available, either by reference to what a CB from elsewhere might cost, or by reference to other areas of the team where the money might be spent. Is he really that much better than the likes of Ben Gibson, or Winston Reid, or (god forgive me) Scott Dann? He's looked good against us a few times, but sure who hasn't?

I absolutely don't think he's worth that fee and would be very happy if we looked elsewhere. He's better than Reid though, no doubt. Keane from Burnley will probably be moving on - interesting to see what fee he goes for. Seems a better defender to me.

BorneTobyWilde

Moreno really has no rhythm on or off the ball.

Milkers

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

He can probably still do that part when fit but the bit that preceded it i.e. sprinting to get the breaking ball...

mormank

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

Ya but Van Dijk played for Celtic before Southampton. If we started buying players from Celtic to go straight into our first team you would just have people bitching about buying players from that standard of league to go straight into our first team. Take Dembele for example who plays at Celtic, I would be happy enough if we signed him this summer but if we did you would get heaps of people on here complaining about that signing, hell plenty of people on here were bitching about us signing Mane ffs, however if Dembele signed for West ham and started banging them in you would have people bitching about why we didnt sign him. Point is, you can never keep everyone happy.

corwill

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?..............

It's lunacy, last Summer we bought Mane off them who was half way through a 4 year contract so they weren't in a must sell position and he cost £34m.
A goal every 3 game AM/Winger/Strikerish chap. Mane is currently just turned 25, in asset terms he should be worth decent money for the next few years barring injury etc etc.

How anyone reckons £50 for a soon to be 26 year old CB makes any sense is beyond me. When you factor in we need a LB/WB, CM/DM (x2 essentially), another Mane & a top striker.

It's lunacy IMO but I reckon it won't happen anyway

We should just buy whoever S'ton plan on replacing him with or buy both M'Boro CBs Gibson would cost half of the Van d price and is left footed

NukaCola

Van Dijk would be a very good signing. Its a lot of money though definitely and without a system change it would be a waste of money. Bring him in and actually have a DM in front etc and it could go a long way to sorting out a lot of issues.

corwill

mormank wrote: »

Ya but Van Dijk played for Celtic before Southampton. If we started buying players from Celtic to go straight into our first team you would just have people bitching about buying players from that standard of league to go straight into our first team. Take Dembele for example who plays at Celtic, I would be happy enough if we signed him this summer but if we did you would get heaps of people on here complaining about that signing, hell plenty of people on here were bitching about us signing Mane ffs, however if Dembele signed for West ham and started banging them in you would have people bitching about why we didnt sign him. Point is, you can never keep everyone happy.

If our transfers are to be dictated in that fashion, and the club has that little confidence in its scouting, then we might as well go home. Keeping people 'happy' isn't the objective, or shouldn't be.

murpho999

People were on here last year saying we paid to much for Mane.

Same was said when Torres signed.

I don't know why people worry about transfer fees, let the club and manager look after that. If a player is successful than the transfer fee becomes a non issue.

Don't see it happening anyway as City or Chelsea might go for him, unless we get in there first and make him want to play for us.

corwill

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't know why people worry about transfer fees, let the club and manager look after that.

Because the club and successive managers haven't looked after that very well for extended periods over the last 30 years? Because there isn't an infinite amount of money, and we need significant improvement in a variety of areas?

Osmosis Jones

If the club thinks van Dijk is the best player for the team then I say go for it. We don't just spend money for the sake of it, last summer there was big money going around for defenders (Stones, Bailly, Luiz,) and we managed to pick Matip up for free. I just hope we buy whoever Klopp and his staff think will perform the best, if that's VvD and we can't get him for less than 50m then so be it.

ricero

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

If the club thinks van Dijk is the best player for the team then I say go for it. We don't just spend money for the sake of it, last summer there was big money going around for defenders (Stones, Bailly, Luiz,) and we managed to pick Matip up for free. I just hope we buy whoever Klopp and his staff think will perform the best, if that's VvD and we can't get him for less than 50m then so be it.

Exactly my thoughts. Anyway its looking like sakho will be sold on and the club are looking for 30 million for him so Van Diijk for 50 is not that much when you factor in the sakho money.

In fairness to Klopp he always seems to identify his targets early and try sign them up so i expect a few deals to be announced in June. I just hope that some of these deals are not depending on if we qualify for champions league or not. Offer top players top wages and they will sign.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

........ If a player is successful than the transfer fee becomes a non issue...............

Well Matip is a success but we still leak goals for fun so spending £50m on a CB seems lunacy to me

LiamoSail

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

He didn't only start playing football the day he rocked up at Southampton. If your basis of judging a player is dependent only upon his time in the PL, any player with even a bit of quality is going to cost huge money. That's the price of the primer league proven tag you value so highly

corwill wrote: »

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

Southampton didn't have to go to the moon to find him, he was playing literally just up the road. The dogs on the street could see his quality with only the lack of a "premiership proven" tag keeping his value reasonable. You don't need amazing scouts to find these players, just need to look outside England.

Granted VVD played in weaker leagues previously, but irrespective of the quality of the SPL, you could see he was special a mile away

corwill

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's the price of the primer league proven tag you value so highly

Given my above posts take issue with any 'PL-proven' element of the transfer fee being suggested for Van Djik, and I make the specific point that I'm frustrated at the club not identifying these players before other PL clubs do, I'm not sure why you're aiming this post at me.

LiamoSail

mormank wrote: »

Ya but Van Dijk played for Celtic before Southampton. If we started buying players from Celtic to go straight into our first team you would just have people bitching about buying players from that standard of league to go straight into our first team. Take Dembele for example who plays at Celtic, I would be happy enough if we signed him this summer but if we did you would get heaps of people on here complaining about that signing, hell plenty of people on here were bitching about us signing Mane ffs, however if Dembele signed for West ham and started banging them in you would have people bitching about why we didnt sign him. Point is, you can never keep everyone happy.

Forster, Wanyama and VVD cost Southampton about £35m in total. Arguably each is worth that alone now. That's the value put on the premiership proven criteria that Liverpool seem to favour.

Amazing really when you consider most of clubs most expensive signings suggest that the PL proven tag should be avoided

Carroll
Torres
Benteke
Suarez
Lovern
Keane
Firmino

Alonso77

Baresi in his prime would struggle in an exposed defence such as ours. A defensive midfielder is a must this summer.

LiamoSail

corwill wrote: »

Given my above posts take issue with any 'PL-proven' element of the transfer fee being suggested for Van Djik, and I make the specific point that I'm frustrated at the club not identifying these players before other PL clubs do, I'm not sure why you're aiming this post at me.

I was addressing the point you made about VVD having only played a season and a half in the PL. In isolation it looked as if you were ignoring his career up to that point, though perhaps having not read the thread I'm missing the context

LiamoSail

Alonso77 wrote: »

Baresi in his prime would struggle in an exposed defence such as ours. A defensive midfielder is a must this summer.

Baresi in his prime never featured on Match of the Day, so not much chance of him coming to Liverpool's attention

Buford T. Justice XIX

NukaCola wrote: »

Van Dijk would be a very good signing. Its a lot of money though definitely and without a system change it would be a waste of money. Bring him in and actually have a DM in front etc and it could go a long way to sorting out a lot of issues.

Having a dedicated DM like Kante isn't the way Klopp sets up though.

Someone like Keita, a ball playing CM with a bit more defensive capabilities than average, will be where we will end up buying.

murpho999

Augeo wrote: »

Well Matip is a success but we still leak goals for fun so spending £50m on a CB seems lunacy to me

Well I think Matip is quality and he was free, so if we got van Dijk for £50m then two class centre backs for £50m would look cheap.

Matip is not the problem in defence it's his Lovren sidekick beside him who needs to be replaced.