Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

BorneTobyWilde

Too many isolated players last night, it's easy to look at Lucas, you need to look at the protection he had though.

murpho999

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Too many isolated players last night, it's easy to look at Lucas, you need to look at the protection he had though.

No, you need to ask the question as to why he's there as a centre back. He should not be there.
Klopp has had three transfer windows, so who is to blame?

brevity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSU0sfnxuLc

brevity

brevity wrote: »

I think people are frustrated at the fact that Liverpool cannot change the way they play in order to hold onto the great position that they got themselves in.

3 losses, 3 draws & a win in the 7 2017 games is absolute dogsh1t form. Considering where we were if we had the much mentioned PLAN B to shut up shop and eek out results better we'd be a few points better off you'd imagine.

If the much mentioned raise our game for the top sides doesn't happen on Saturday ............... :eek:

RobertKK wrote: »

What are Liverpool's finances like?
I don't know, but I know for United that Ed Woodward has been like a world class signing as the CEO, and has put United into the position they are now finance wise.
No one hears about the person who controls the finances of Liverpool, are they making the right commercial deals? Are they looking at every avenue for new streams of income?
I mean Liverpool are a massive club, but it does not act like a massive club in the transfer market.
The fees for the top talent is massive as are the wages these days. Liverpool need to be able to compete if they want to play CL and compete for the title. So I am just curious about the finances at the club.
There should be a very large pot this summer?

surely Ayre was doing all that? Dunno tbh. Thought that's what he was at.

ebbsy

Standard of the Premier League is not good. We should be comfortably in 2nd place with another 7 or 8 points. Why ? because our players are not good enough. They d'ont have the mental toughness for the Premier league.

As for getting into the top 4 yeah that is great for the money men but apart from Chelsea no other English team will have a good crack in Europe.

Another season of this next year and I would say Klopp will be gone.

MD1990

RobertKK wrote: »

What are Liverpool's finances like?
I don't know, but I know for United that Ed Woodward has been like a world class signing as the CEO, and has put United into the position they are now finance wise.
No one hears about the person who controls the finances of Liverpool, are they making the right commercial deals? Are they looking at every avenue for new streams of income?
I mean Liverpool are a massive club, but it does not act like a massive club in the transfer market.
The fees for the top talent is massive as are the wages these days. Liverpool need to be able to compete if they want to play CL and compete for the title. So I am just curious about the finances at the club.
There should be a very large pot this summer?

Modern football summed up in this post.

RobertKK

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Without wanting to get into everything else going on in this thread (I'm very frustrated with the team, players and manager but I don't have the time to go into all the reasons why!!) I just had to call out this nonsense.

Ian Ayre has stepped down from this role after an exceptionally successful term, achieving commercial deals with everyone from Dunkin Donuts to Standard Chartered.

Liverpool remain a massively successful commercial entity, almost to the point of irritation among some fans - is the club focusing too much on this and not enough on the pitch? I'll let the rest of ye decide that.

In addition, we literally announced our new CEO YESTERDAY.

We can debate the transfer policy all we want but you can't suggest the club aren't at the very least trying when it comes to making us commercially relevant all over the world.

You can call it nonsense but I was just saying not many people know who he is.
I don't think any club can focus too much on getting sponsors and making money, once the fans can see that money is being invested in the club.
Maybe Liverpool want to get the facility's to where they want them, the improvements at Anfield and the new proposed training ground, no reason there isn't plenty of money for investment in quality players.

BorneTobyWilde

murpho999 wrote: »

No, you need to ask the question as to why he's there as a centre back. He should not be there.
Klopp has had three transfer windows, so who is to blame?

Best player against Spurs, we were on it that day though. Everyone was on guard and protecting each other and spaces. We saw none of that last night, we were disjointed and very open. Leicester had time and space which against a Klopp side that has had a 2 week holiday is scary.
Are they playing for him ? The question no one wants to ask is coming very soon..

Nerdlingr

Klopp has options to him but he continues to play the same way week in week out. We could play with wing backs. We could play three at the back. We could play with a big man up front and flood the midfield. We have options, its just that Klopp either wont or is unable to adapt his tactics. Its a question I've asked loads of times on here... is klopp adaptable? Is that why things went to sh*t at Dortmund? from what I've seen in 15 months he has a plan A, and when it works its beautiful BUT when its not working whats Plan B????

When something isn't working you look for different ways to fix it. What has he done differently to fix the slump we find ourselves in. How about dropping players who are under-performing for starters?! Firmino, lallana, Can ...all drop-able yet play each week regardless. Origi was on a 5 game scoring run before Christmas and as soon as Coutinho came back he was dropped.

brevity

Augeo wrote: »

3 losses, 3 draws & a win in the 7 2017 games is absolute dogsh1t form. Considering where we were if we had the much mentioned PLAN B to shut up shop and eek out results better we'd be a few points better off you'd imagine.

Everyone knew what was coming down the line, why they didn't adequately prepare is baffling to me.

jcsoulinger

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Best player against Spurs, we were on it that day though. Everyone was on guard and protecting each other and spaces. We saw none of that last night, we were disjointed and very open. Leicester had time and space which against a Klopp side that has had a 2 week holiday is scary.
Are they playing for him ? The question no one wants to ask is coming very soon..

He was very good on Kane, didn't give him a sniff, He just couldn't deal with Vardy's pace.

I forgot about Gomez, how the **** is he not an option he couldn't do any worse.

Vanolder

It hurts to be right ... I said back in early Jan that Liverpool needed to go on a ten game winning spree to stand any chance of making top 4 and how I was ridiculed ... posters scoffed at the thoughts of not finishing top4 and it was a matter of how many points we'd finish in second by.

Simple fact, the squad and the manager have not been good enough. Klopp has mishandled the squad and left himself short in a big way and what he does have are some very average players. That performance last night was gutless tho.. and that's been a problem for a while now, no one wanting to take leadership in game where we are up against it.
Lallana getting a new bumper contract and that's how he repays it? Firminho looks knackered - indeed the effects of the high pressing game looks to be taking its toll as a whole on a very small squad.

Win against Arsenal and Man City and the world looks different but it's very hard to see the team finishing ahead of both UTD and one of the other top 4.

jcsoulinger

I generally try and remain positive after a bad result, usually say to myself it was just one of those days, and we'll bounce back next week. Been doing it way too much lately, It's just very difficult to see where we can go from here. For the first time I'm genuinely worried about what's going to happen to this club. I feel it's all or nothing with Klopp if he can't make it work then we might as well burn the place down.

Alonso77

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Best player against Spurs, we were on it that day though. Everyone was on guard and protecting each other and spaces. We saw none of that last night, we were disjointed and very open. Leicester had time and space which against a Klopp side that has had a 2 week holiday is scary.
Are they playing for him ? The question no one wants to ask is coming very soon..

If they are not playing for him , he should dump em and get in players that will. He's still an at early stage where I'd blame the players more than the manager - for now.

FitzShane

FitzShane wrote: »

..........................

What we could have done is played the same system, high line. But bring in Joe Gomez at centre back...............

Or Klavan, he isn't great but he's at least a career CB, alongside Matip you'd imagine he'd be better than Lucas. A left footed CB as LCB He's over 6 foot too. If he can't get in the team at CB ahead of Lucas he shouldn't be on the bench either.

With both full backs bombing forward and with Mane, coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Wij all playing we need someone in defence or DM that can really pass the ball. We have next to know height in the advanced positions so it has to be passed or dribbled up the field.

Nerdlingr wrote: »

........... Origi was on a 5 game scoring run before Christmas and as soon as Coutinho came back he was dropped.

Probably doesn't track back enough.

ERG89

FitzShane wrote:

In reality, we have teenagers and 21/22 year olds as our back up plan and our rivals have £30m players. We can't compete with that kind of difference. We have Gomez, Woodburn, Stewart, Origi as our substitutes. That is not a viable squad.

Realistically Woodburn & Stewart are going nowhere at the club so are not needed. Stewart is 24 in September so why exactly he's still around despite never, ever, ever challenging for a starters role is beyond me. If Klopp rates him why doesnt he play him?
I hope he gives Gomez & Origi more chances. The former needs game time, same with Alexander Arnold & Origi it's time he started laying down a marker to start by showing consistent form beyond a few games.

murpho999

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Best player against Spurs, we were on it that day though. Everyone was on guard and protecting each other and spaces. We saw none of that last night, we were disjointed and very open. Leicester had time and space which against a Klopp side that has had a 2 week holiday is scary.
Are they playing for him ? The question no one wants to ask is coming very soon..

He's not a natural defender and we should have proper centre backs in the squad.

Lucas is not solution. Nor is Milner.

For the first time I'm doubting Clyne as well.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

...........

For the first time I'm doubting Clyne as well.

He's grand at worst IMO, rarely targetted and defends well. Not great going forward but with Mane ahead of him he's grand to good at worst.

super_furry

Liverpool have basically morphed into a mid-90s Spurs team. Capable of being brilliant on occasion, but too nice and too easy to walk over.

Nerdlingr

super_furry wrote: »

Liverpool have basically morphed into a mid-90s Spurs team. Capable of being brilliant on occasion, but too nice and too easy to walk over.

Was thinking the exact same thing watching them last night. "Are we the new old spurs ?!".

Said a few weeks back we need some b@stards in our team. The more b@stards the better!!! How many times over the years have we been physically bullied by the opposition? and its happening even waaay more frequently now.

Seaba

On a more simplistic point from last night - I could not get over the amount of times we gave the ball away or misplaced a pass or over hit a pass that made it difficult for the receiver. Some of these passes were 5 - 10 yards.
I used to think WTF are they at in training - now I just accept that the majority of these players are just not 'top' players. They can turn it on now and again but not consistently. Hazard/Pedro/Willian/Fabregas/Costa are miles ahead of our front five, technique/ball retention wise.

Ah feck............ just noticed Arsenal & Man City have game in hand on us.

djPSB

Please come home Brendan.

BorneTobyWilde

Firmino was great against Spurs, got a lot of praise for that display and follows it up with a shocking display last night. Did he down tools last night, looked like it. Worst display from a Liverpool striker in last ten years, and we had Balloteli .

Osmosis Jones

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Firmino was great against Spurs, got a lot of praise for that display and follows it up with a shocking display last night. Did he down tools last night, looked like it. Worst display from a Liverpool striker in last ten years, and we had Balloteli .

You need to learn about hyperbole

BorneTobyWilde

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

You need to learn about hyperbole

It was right up there, he offered zero. Milner crossed to the invisible man at one stage, Klopp went mad at him. Milner was making a point to Firmino though, 'why the fcuk are you not in there ''

jcsoulinger

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

You need to learn about hyperbole

Ya its an exaggeration but Firminho was shocking last night, He seemed to take a heavy touch every time he received the ball in the first half, was better after the break but still way off.

BullBlackNova

RobertKK wrote: »

You can call it nonsense but I was just saying not many people know who he is.
I don't think any club can focus too much on getting sponsors and making money, once the fans can see that money is being invested in the club.
Maybe Liverpool want to get the facility's to where they want them, the improvements at Anfield and the new proposed training ground, no reason there isn't plenty of money for investment in quality players.

The part in bold is what I'm calling nonsense.

Ian Ayre, his motorcycle and his donuts have been discussed to death in this thread. Among Liverpool fans, he's as well known as Woodward is among United fans. Not everyone is going to know the name of the CE, but anyone with an interest in how the club runs most certainly will.

Our commercial income is nothing to be sniffed at - €160m in 2016, which is more than Arsenal (€143m) and not far off Chelsea (€163m).

PSG, Bayern, United, City, Barca and Real are all streets ahead of everyone in this regard - though there's probably some questionable practices surrounding PSG and City's commercial exploits...

(https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html if anyone is interested)

---

I share the frustrations about investment in the squad - as a commercial entity, 'Pool are the 9th biggest side in the world. Sure, money is being spent on the stadium and some facilities, but it's hard not be frustrated about the shortfalls in the squad. Even if you're 100% behind Klopp's playing style and the standard of player that we have, you'd have to accept that we just don't have enough players in some roles.

As it is, the run we're currently on is actually what I'd expected before the season started. Doesn't mean we don't get to be critical, though...

Riesen_Meal

Our new Money man, at least he is a fan :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEmjIm8P9Y8

BullBlackNova

BullBlackNova wrote: »

The part in bold is what I'm calling nonsense.

Ian Ayre, his motorcycle and his donuts have been discussed to death in this thread. Among Liverpool fans, he's as well known as Woodward is among United fans...............

To be fair I imagine RobertKK wasn't just on about LFC fans and his initial point was very much queryish

Lovely Bloke

MD1990 wrote: »

Modern football summed up in this post.

Giving out about "modern football" and expecting Liverpool to challenge for titles?

You can't have both, and unfortunately for people like you Liverpool play in a modern football arena.

Crash Bang Wall

Is it possible that Klopp may have actually accidentally discovered a formaula that might work in 3 5 2 or even 3 4 3?

It would allow Moreno to start knowing that his defensive ability (or lack there of) wouldnt be under as much scrutiny....and we would have at least one player on the left capable of getting to the byline without having to turn back

jcsoulinger

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Is it possible that Klopp may have actually accidentally discovered a formaula that might work in 3 5 2 or even 3 4 3?

It would allow Moreno to start knowing that his defensive ability (or lack there of) wouldnt be under as much scrutiny....and we would have at least one player on the left capable of getting to the byline without having to turn back

I would say that the system Klopp uses with the wing backs pushing high up and Henderson often very deep it's almost a 343 already, I don't think the formation is the problem it's the squad depth that's the issue.

mormank

brevity wrote: »

I think people are frustrated at the fact that Liverpool cannot change the way they play in order to hold onto the great position that they got themselves in.

All I'm gonna say is there are alot of parallels between our start this season and Leicester last season, even with our cavalier styles. I seem to remember around Jan last season Leicester changed their style and started to try grind out 1-0s and went onto win the league when nobody thought they could. We changed nothing, game after game, defeat after defeat....I know this is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at things but can anyone tell me when was the last time a team won the PL whilst stubbornly playing the same way regardless of opponent? I know Mourinho always set up differently for example. Arsenal '04 maybe? We seem to just set up the same way regardless of opponent.

mosstin

Vanolder wrote: »

It hurts to be right ... I said back in early Jan that Liverpool needed to go on a ten game winning spree to stand any chance of making top 4 and how I was ridiculed ... posters scoffed at the thoughts of not finishing top4 and it was a matter of how many points we'd finish in second by.

Simple fact, the squad and the manager have not been good enough. Klopp has mishandled the squad and left himself short in a big way and what he does have are some very average players. That performance last night was gutless tho.. and that's been a problem for a while now, no one wanting to take leadership in game where we are up against it.
Lallana getting a new bumper contract and that's how he repays it? Firminho looks knackered - indeed the effects of the high pressing game looks to be taking its toll as a whole on a very small squad.

Win against Arsenal and Man City and the world looks different but it's very hard to see the team finishing ahead of both UTD and one of the other top 4.

3 parts schadenfreude, 2 parts hubris.

Iused2likebusts

Hard to believe that we have 5 pts from Chelsea utd and spurs and 1 pt from Sunderland Swansea hull and Leicester since the turn of the year. Our away form is becoming an issue I think the Swansea defeat was a bit of a freak result. 7 home games I'd expect 16 pts its the 5 away games stoke wba city Watford west ham. I reckon we need 10 pts from them but I wouldn't be confident of winning any of those based on the last few away games.

mormank

Vanolder wrote: »

It hurts to be right ... I said back in early Jan that Liverpool needed to go on a ten game winning spree to stand any chance of making top 4 and how I was ridiculed ... posters scoffed at the thoughts of not finishing top4 and it was a matter of how many points we'd finish in second by.

Simple fact, the squad and the manager have not been good enough. Klopp has mishandled the squad and left himself short in a big way and what he does have are some very average players. That performance last night was gutless tho.. and that's been a problem for a while now, no one wanting to take leadership in game where we are up against it.
Lallana getting a new bumper contract and that's how he repays it? Firminho looks knackered - indeed the effects of the high pressing game looks to be taking its toll as a whole on a very small squad.

Win against Arsenal and Man City and the world looks different but it's very hard to see the team finishing ahead of both UTD and one of the other top 4.

The part in bold is as incorrect now as it was then. You deserved ridicule for such a ridiculous sweeping statement. When you said it in Jan we did not need anything as drastic as ten wins in a row.
Had we gotten that we would be in the title race, never mind the top 4 race. You seem to be forgetting that everyone still has to play eachother so points will be dropped by all teams in this race for top 4 and as such we do not need to win 10 in a row to clinch it.
Coming back in here now and smugly throwing around "I told you so's" as tho the season is over and we finished 6th already is frankly quite embarrassing.

mormank

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

You need to learn about hyperbole

:P

mormank

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Ya its an exaggeration but Firminho was shocking last night, He seemed to take a heavy touch every time he received the ball in the first half, was better after the break but still way off.

Agreed. Firmino's first touch was horrendous last night.

Harry Palmr

super_furry wrote: »

Liverpool have basically morphed into a mid-90s Spurs team. Capable of being brilliant on occasion, but too nice and too easy to walk over.

Something in this, when you look through the whole squad you notice the complete absence of a big bad bastard, or even a small ankle-biter in the Masch/Medel mould, instead we have nice boys who between them hardly pick up more than a red card every season. Obviously you don't want a Xhaka type repeat offender costing 30m but someone is needed to clear out the odd opposition player at the critical moment or just have the ability to read the fvcking game and be there before the opposition are. It's an aspect of the team that's been missing for far too long now.


As for the usual screaming nitwits demanding Klopp is binned or that it's all FSG's fault - cop on. We ain't going to get any better. Attacking the owners is particularly bone headed, they have not refused to shell out - hell remember Teixiera? They were willing to go to over 30m in January last year and the deal would almost certainly have happened, but Klopp no so he went to China.

RobertKK's highlighting of Ian Ayr as being obscure is just weird! Every Liverpool supporter/fan who pays any attention to the working of the club will know him and know that on the commercial side he dragged the club out of the stone age. If Ed Woodward is better known is mainly due to sharing his his name with this bloke



and the fact Utd are a floated company. Executives will always have a higher profile if they have to answer to the board and shareholders.

BTW who cares who the director of money is really? The only thing you want to know is that the deals done are good ones. Nothing else.

Gbear

We can talk about tactics and personnel, but the odd occasion where we showed any bit of composure on the ball and rudimentary movement in the final third last night, we made very easy work of cutting through the Leicester defence.

I reject the idea that they were good.
They worked hard - fine. Their chances mostly came from set pieces and a mistake in midfield. Good finishes and all that, but they weren't outclassing us with the ball.
We kept giving them the ball but they did not impress me when they had it.

Even if you take a two goal handicap and you accept that we play in a way that plays into the hands of Vardy and co, if our attack isn't just complete **** then I think we can outscore them handily enough.

The football we play is hi-risk in many respects but the biggest issue is against defences that can reliably hold us at bay even when we're on our game.
That wasn't Leicester.

I think Klopp had every reason to continue playing our normal style last night.

He couldn't have anticipated how utterly incompetent we were going to be on the ball.
He can do more to make it safer and I don't agree with the composition of the squad or how we've managed to forget that Milner is a midfielder and would've been an option in for Hendo yesterday, but the biggest thing last night is the players on the pitch letting him down.

Tactics, Lucas at CB, no Hendo all have their effects, but they don't explain why Firmino and Mane can't keep the ball to within 6 feet of them when they try to control it or why they can't make a 5 yard pass or are looking straight at a Leicester player and just pass him the ball.

Harry Palmr

The U23s play WBA at 7 PM

U23s Starting XI vs West Brom:

Kelleher; Whelan, N Phillips, Gomez, Randall; J Williams; Ojo, Virtue, Alves, Dhanda; Brewster

Subs: Grabara, Masterson, Hart, M Gomes, T Gomes

pretty exciting side though once again the trinity of TAA, Ejaria and Woodburn stay with the first team. Have to reckon they are seniors for all intents and purposes now.

charolais0153

Robson99 wrote: »

Ye all thought ye would win the league at xmas

Ye thought it was a two horse race between yerselves and city

ricero

The amount of 50/50's and second balls we lost last night was disgusting, I even saw some players losing 60/40's. I agree with what some are saying with the teams mental attitude. I reckon some thought they just had to show up last night, nobody willing to take responsibility or control last night. Lallana (been great for most of the season) in particular i thought was a disgrace along with firmino who needs to be taken out of the team for origi imo.

I have said it before about FSG (i would like them gone) but this summer really is put up the cash for quality or sell up for me and i also reckon its the same for a large majority of the fan base. We need to be buying potential yes but also some much needed quality and experience. If we have another transfer window like last summer i can see things turning nasty at the club. Our bench last night summed up clearly how small and lacking depth this squad is especially when you compare it to the rest of the top 6.

Knex*

A handy trick for whenever you're frustrated with Klopp.

Remember that he's pretty much the only person at the club who has ever fucking won anything.

Milner is probably the only one with any medal collection worth talking about. Our squad requires a lot of work. We all knew that in August, however.

D0NNELLY

Poo my pants a bit when he says issues will be worked out on the training ground instead of the transfer market.

Demosthenese

It's easy to highlight things after such a performance - players not being up to it - but for me the most frustrating thing is that this same 11 more or less (Lucas for Lovren) have been truly excellent at times. So the problem lies more in consistency than it does individually. They are capable ... even peoples pet hate at he moment - Can - is capable of more.

In my mind the biggest miss of the night was Hendo (again easy to say in hindsight) but we really missed someone to grab hold of the game and match the Leicester aggression. Vardy was over enthusiastic jumping through Lucas and Matip at times - he needed someone to stamp his authority over him. We don't possess that kind of player. Then later when Emre was moved to the back he showed he had the pace to deal with him but probably not the aggression.

I'll be very interested to see if Klopp after last night decides to move Milner back into a central role. Which would obviously mean moving Moreno back into the lineup.

As for the manager - i really like Klopp and although i back him i still question his tactics at times.
- Lucas was pretty good v Spurs it has to be said, but found out bigtime. It just shows how far down the pecking order Gomes/Klavan are in his mind. But also, if playing with a guy like Lucas how about restricting 1 fullback to bombing forward at every opportunity. Like for the Vardy goal, why was Clyne not in line with his centre back pairing?
- We've seen with the City game at home that he CAN change tactics. We played very restricting and packed the middle of the park. I know it sounds simple but i'll bet Hull play Leicester at the weekend and the'll not once allow Vardy in behind cos they'll drop deeper. Why do we persist with the same tactics that have seen us beaten by Wolves/Swansea/Leicester? It's not like we expect them to play differently.
- Balls wide and no crosses. We get into some brilliant positions wide but do not cross the ball with any real vigor. Clyne and Milner were advanced to their by-line many times but we cut it back and play short range balls with almost 20 men in the box area. Then Origi comes on and plays wide! Firminio/Origi should be across the width of the 6 yard box!
- 2 holding midfielders that aren't quite holding midfielders! Gini/Can were deployed last night and then Lallana/Couts outside them. Instead i see Gini making more runs into the box than all others. Can making dribbles towards their box. They are positioned to be like Kante/Matip but couldn't be further from that type of player.


Anyway, i guess we'll see the reaction v Arsenal - which i fully expect to be good. Then back to the same low with Burnley! I hope Klopp answers a few questions and a few critics. This loss has to hurt. Even in his interview he seemed to be a little confused as to why it all went tits up. Taking Mane/Lallana off was a huge indication of how that game went.

I expect a swift kick in the hole for a few of our better paid stars. People love to have a hack at Mig and Can but Coutinho has been in hiding since he signed contracts. Food for thought.

brevity

I get the impression that Klopp won't really be concerned about results like this until he's at Liverpool a few more years.

5starpool

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Poo my pants a bit when he says issues will be worked out on the training ground instead of the transfer market.

Well there is only one option at the minute. He's hardly going to say we'll change nothing until the summer is he?

Alonso77

I suspect (and it's dawning on him now) that Klopp has overestimated this squad.

He looked bewildered in the post match interview last night. Truly perplexed that this collection of players did not respond to him.

He may suggest to the contrary but I think there will be big personnel changes on the pitch next season.