Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

LiamoSail

5starpool wrote: »

Rodgers took us to within 2 points of the title with the most exhilarating league season we've witnessed in the last 25 years (albeit not the highest points total). We don't hire managers for personality. I'm not Rodgers biggest fan in terms of listening to him talk, but his Balotelli quip was fairly funny, as was Balotelli's response imo. He was ultimately a failure at Liverpool, as were many others in recent years sadly.

I agree entirely. My point is that while others, Benitez, Dalglish and Ged for example are held in high esteem, Rodgers is cast like another Hodgson. He is effectively demeaned in the same way Benitez was at Chelsea despite his results. Roy Evans at least is given the dignified treatment, but "the Rodgers" is pretty much mocked despite coming closer than any of the above to achieving his remit.

Maybe he didn't touch the sign or quote YNWA enough for some, but he did a damn good job for two of his three and a half year tenure and deserves respect for that at least.

Harry Palmr

Rodgers cast like another Hodgson? :eek:

Ah c'mon on, you've lost the plot entirely now.

Kerrigooney

LiamoSail wrote: »

The context was onviously within the PL period, but if you chose to argue the point on semantics, it kind of says it all about your point. Any reason at all not to credit Rodgers

I haven't involved myself in the Rodgers debate. I've neither given him credit or put him down in any way so I don't know what you're getting at.

Agent Coulson

We really have become Spurs when people consider coming second a success.

mada999

noodler wrote: »

Nah been poison for months.

agreed

~Rebel~

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

We're not Spurs, nothing to celebrate in coming close to a title. Rodgers was given plenty of time based on that season and showed countless times that he wasn't up for the job.

The world isn't black or white, all or nothing. There are obviously degrees of judgement.

Rodger's did a bloody good job over his first 2 seasons, with a very consistent improvement evident in that time - dividing those 2 seasons into quarters, each quarter was consistently better than the last. That's all you can ask of a manager.

He couldn't cope with building something new after losing his centerpiece in Suarez, and was rightly moved on. But that doesn't take away from what he did achieve. He just couldn't achieve it twice.

OwaynOTT

That season was a brilliant roller coaster of a ride, one of the best since i followed Liverpool. Ultimately it ended in failure but in my view Rodgers did a great job that year and I will always remember that season fondly.
It was ****ing mental like. Absolutely destroying teams. A real Icarus of a season though.
It made me believe that we might actually win the league again.
I've never experienced that as a Liverpool fan.
To give Rodgers credit for going close and giving us a spellbinding season isn't accepting second. It's appreciating great football and a jolly good go of it.

5starpool

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We really have become Spurs when people consider coming second a success.

It's all relative. Second then going back down to 6th-8th is no good. Second which is a stepping stone to a title or success in Europe is great. We're not there though by any means yet.

~Rebel~

Side Note: Life would be bloody miserable if you were only able to take joy in absolute victory, and not the ups and downs of a journey.

~Rebel~

LiamoSail wrote: »

Maybe he didn't touch the sign or quote YNWA enough for some, but he did a damn good job for two of his three and a half year tenure and deserves respect for that at least.

Actually, one of the things I really liked about him was pulling aspects of past glories back into the present, as a reminder of what the club should be and where the bar should be set. Putting back up the old TIA sign, switching back to red nets etc.

Like all of our best managers, he did genuinely 'get' the club.

Kerrigooney

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Side Note: Life would be bloody miserable if you were only able to take joy in absolute victory, and not the ups and downs of a journey.

Wise words.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We really have become Spurs when people consider coming second a success.

We're far from success this season so?
Far from success is known as.... ?

Ah yes...

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We really have become Spurs when people consider coming second a success.

It's 3 decades since we were 4th. Baby steps.

3rd or 4th is definitely a successful season compared to last season, and considering the competition. Better that next season or equal it with a trophy would be another successful season.

I won't be celebrating wildly if we finish 3rd or 4th but I'll certainly be pretty happy.

Harry Palmr

Anyone supporting Liverpool clearly enjoys the ups and down or at least is willing to endure same be it in long form or individual incidents. That's why the Matip/Lovren move on Monday was so good/bad, that kind of wilful eccentricity/stupidity/verve keeps one interested and alert even in the most dull/routine of matches. It's also why Rodgers got binned (!), at the start of 2015/16 everyone was scared to make a move and just went through the motions :pac:

OwaynOTT

Last year went bad either despite coming nowhere and getting beat in an European final.
Unbeaten in Europe against Utd for over 50 years and that mad game against Dortmund which made us all lose our grip on reality and love Lovern.
Apart from Woy, we've been ****ing spoiled as fans in the last 20 years without needing to win the league.
Winning the league would be the easy way but Liverpool don't do easy. We do mad fa cup finals where marlon harewood can't move, gerrard scores a screamer to bring it to extra time and where Stephen henchoz is allowed to use his hands at will.
Don't get me started on our European finals.

GotTheTshirt

LiamoSail wrote: »

Rodgers is cast like another Hodgson.

That's absolute b0llox

Turtyturd

I think the passioned defence of 'The Rodgers' is more to do with who he currently manages than anything to do with Liverpool.

Don't think anyone will deny that season under him was great but his politicking was tiresome and it was time for him to go when he did.

Looking forward to seeing where he ends up in the next year or two, he's actually a better manager than his current position.

OwaynOTT

Turtyturd wrote: »

I think the passioned defence of 'The Rodgers' is more to do with who he currently manages than anything to do with Liverpool.

Don't think anyone will deny that season under him was great but his politicking was tiresome and it was time for him to go when he did.

Looking forward to seeing where he ends up in the next year or two, he's actually a better manager than his current position.

Couldn't care less what he does nowadays and when he went it was probably too late.
Unfortunately people do deny that it was a great season.

Agent Coulson

RoboKlopp wrote: »

It's 3 decades since we were 4th. Baby steps.

3rd or 4th is definitely a successful season compared to last season, and considering the competition. Better that next season or equal it with a trophy would be another successful season.

I won't be celebrating wildly if we finish 3rd or 4th but I'll certainly be pretty happy.

Still in the last 17 years we have won one CL one EL two FA Cups three league cups and two European Supercups that's pretty successful by any standards.


We have also been runners up in the league twice and the CL & EL once each the FA cup once the League cup twice and the World club cup once.



Saying finishing second in the league is the best achievement by any Liverpool manager even in the PL era and discounting the above is hugely disrespectful the managers who went before.


We now have a manager who is rebuilding the club from the ground up and if we get CL football that will be a huge step in the right direction to be able to challenge year in year out and not in one outlier season like that season in the last nine.


Of course everyone fan loved that season and we had the pleasure to see the best player in the world that year playing for us and Rodgers did the right thing he played to that players strengths because as we saw after that player left Rodgers had now other ideas.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Still in the last 17 years we have won one CL one EL two FA Cups three league cups and two European Supercups that's pretty successful by any standards.


We have also been runners up in the league twice and the CL & EL once each the FA cup once the League cup twice and the World club cup once.



Saying finishing second in the league is the best achievement by any Liverpool manager even in the PL era and discounting the above is hugely disrespectful the managers who went before.


We now have a manager who is rebuilding the club from the ground up and if we get CL football that will be a huge step in the right direction to be able to challenge year in year out and not in one outlier season like that season in the last nine.

Ah I didn't know the context of your post. Didn't read too far back.

Agree with you.

Personally give me trophies over 4th place at the moment for Liverpool. I'm probably in the minority though!

LiamoSail

LiamoSail wrote: »

Brendan Rodgers deserves far more respect from Liverpool fans than he gets. No Liverpool manager has taken the club closer to the title than Rodgers, and that includes Kop legends. Added to that, his spell in charge, while ultimately failing, was bookended by successful spells at other clubs, proving he does at least have something about him

The above was the context.... closest to a PL title....

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Ah I didn't know the context of your post. Didn't read too far back.

Agree with you.

Personally give me trophies over 4th place at the moment for Liverpool. I'm probably in the minority though!

OwaynOTT

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Still in the last 17 years we have won one CL one EL two FA Cups three league cups and two European Supercups that's pretty successful by any standards.


We have also been runners up in the league twice and the CL & EL once each the FA cup once the League cup twice and the World club cup once.



Saying finishing second in the league is the best achievement by any Liverpool manager even in the PL era and discounting the above is hugely disrespectful the managers who went before.


We now have a manager who is rebuilding the club from the ground up and if we get CL football that will be a huge step in the right direction to be able to challenge year in year out and not in one outlier season like that season in the last nine.


Of course everyone fan loved that season and we had the pleasure to see the best player in the world that year playing for us and Rodgers did the right thing he played to that players strengths because as we saw after that player left Rodgers had now other ideas.

Don't think anyone said that though Coulson about it being the best achievement in premier league era. Just said it was a good achievement and that Rodgers sometimes doesn't get respect or that people undermine coming second as a good thing.
You actually did that on this page by questioning the merits of appauling second and then you list our runner up achievements in your post.
Mixed messages or am I picking you up wrong?

And it's great we have a manager now (better than the Rodgers) who looks like building a solid foundation to go forward with.
Getting fourth is the start of that and as long as we go one better each year it would be great.
It annoys me that we have this dichotomy sometimes in here where it's fourth or cups. And those that would scarifice a cup for fourth are delusional or not real fans.
Fourth is only a stepping stone and the league cup means noThing.
We've won it enough times and it's done nothing for us. FA cup is a bit of a dud too. Arsenal are winning it the whole time and they're in my view are treading water as a club with their fourths and last 16s.
I wouldn't punt the europa though. And once we have a decent squad and genuine quality sprinkled throughout we should be looking to compete in all.

OwaynOTT

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Don't think anyone said that though Coulson about it being the best achievement in premier league era. Just said it was a good achievement and that Rodgers sometimes doesn't get respect or that people undermine coming second as a good thing.
You actually did that on this page by questioning the merits of appauling second and then you list our runner up achievements in your post.
Mixed messages or am I picking you up wrong?

.

If you're picking him up wrong you're not alone.

Osmosis Jones

Just read that if Feyenoord win the Eredvisie this season, they're 4 points ahead of Ajax with 2 games to go, then it'll be Dirk Kuyt lifting the shield which he'll be receiving from Jerzy Dudek as a member of the last Feyenoord side to win the league.

klose

Don't forget big brad jones too, he's between the sticks for em this season.

Mr.H

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We really have become Spurs when people consider coming second a success.

Not accepting anything other than winning the title is not healthy. Its an unrealistic expectation that no team has the god given right to expect. Not current champions Leicester. Not free spending United City and Arsenal. Not Spurs who feel they have worked their asses off. Certainly not Liverpool who have not won the title in a very very very long time. In fact in the 3 decades since we have won the league football has changed several times.

We have seen:

• 8 world cups
• the careers start and end of many top players such as Giggs, Fowler, Shearer, Henry, Ronaldo (the real one), Ronaldinho, Becks, Owen and so on (I am sure you get the point)
• football turn from "professional" into real professionalism into athleticism into business into global empires owned by kings
• offside rules change several times
• extra time rules changed several times
• pass back is no longer allowed
• the game is now a non contact sport where you would get your leg ripped apart by Souness without even a telling off from the ref but now even a look at an opponent sends them to the floor

The point is that this isnt even the same sport Liverpool won so many titles in. Its the hybrid evolution of that great sport (for the better or worst is opinion).

We have no right to expect to win the league and neither does Chelsea who have been the best team this season. They worked their asses off also and picked up all the points they needed so far. They will finish higher than us because they deserve to.

But to say that not winning the league is not a success is immature childish and bratty. It is merely the talk of an over privileged kid who gets everything they want from mammy and daddy and expect to be waited on without ever having to say thank you.

Liverpool have in order finished 8,6,2,7,8,6 and 7th in the last seven years.

The only time we finished in the top 4 in SEVEN years is our season that Brendan Rodgers almost managed us to the league title.

If you do not think that finishing 2nd in one season is a success, where every season before and after resulted in finishing at least 6th then you are a fool buddy.

If we finish inside the top 4 that will be a huge success. Only the second time in 8 seasons....................

You may want the title as we all do. But realistic expectations are what set us apart. I and most will see logical success and its clear that our manager agrees with us. While the only ones that agree with you are people who support money clubs. We dont have money so either your with us or you know where the money is.................................

Success is relative. Maturity and reality is not

LiamoSail

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Saying finishing second in the league is the best achievement by any Liverpool manager even in the PL era and discounting the above is hugely disrespectful the managers who went before.
.

I never said that. My point wasn't that he was the most successful manager, it was that he came closest to winning the PL.

Turtyturd

klose wrote: »

Don't forget big brad jones too, he's between the sticks for em this season.

Wonder will he go the wrong direction when they try pass the trophy to him.

Turtyturd

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Couldn't care less what he does nowadays and when he went it was probably too late.
Unfortunately people do deny that it was a great season.

Strange, even if you attribute the credit for it to Suarez you can't deny how good it was. Even the atmosphere on here was unreal...although unfortunately it led to the current state of things.

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

Strange, even if you attribute the credit for it to Suarez you can't deny how good it was. Even the atmosphere on here was unreal...although unfortunately it led to the current state of things.

Door is that way bud >>>>>>>>>> :pac:

JB81

Looking to settle a disagreement with a buddy.

From what he says:

England are gauranteed three places in the group stages of the Champions League ( Finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Premier Leaghe ).

Winners of Europa League are also Gauranteed a places in Group Stages of CL.

If Utd win EL then they take one of the three English places

Hence if Liverpool finish third then they would be put in the CL qualifiers??

Any truth in this?

JB

xabi

No, there will be 5 spaces if UTD win EL and finish outside top 4

TitianGerm

JB81 wrote: »

Looking to settle a disagreement with a buddy.

From what he says:

England are gauranteed three places in the group stages of the Champions League ( Finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Premier Leaghe ).

Winners of Europa League are also Gauranteed a places in Group Stages of CL.

If Utd win EL then they take one of the three English places

Hence if Liverpool finish third then they would be put in the CL qualifiers??

Any truth in this?

JB

No... Your friend is a moron :pac:

x43r0

JB81 wrote: »

Looking to settle a disagreement with a buddy.

From what he says:

England are gauranteed three places in the group stages of the Champions League ( Finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Premier Leaghe ).

Winners of Europa League are also Gauranteed a places in Group Stages of CL.

If Utd win EL then they take one of the three English places

Hence if Liverpool finish third then they would be put in the CL qualifiers??

Any truth in this?

JB

xabi wrote: »

No, there will be 5 spaces if UTD win EL and finish outside top 4

Can we get this pinned to the top of the soccer forum please

Feels like I'm in Groundhog Day

D0NNELLY

x43r0 wrote: »

Can we get this pinned to the top of the soccer forum please

Feels like I'm in Groundhog Day

Like in the motors forum..

Can you recom........

Stop you there buddy, Yaris.

JB81

xabi wrote: »

No, there will be 5 spaces if UTD win EL and finish outside top 4

Yeah, that wasnt the question.

The question was on the five places:

Three places in Group Stage ( 1st, 2nd in PL and Utd through EL ) and two places in Qualifiying ( 3rd and 4th in PL ) ??

or

Four places in Group Stage and one place in Qualifying ( Qualifying place for 4th in PL ) ??

As England are only guaranteed 3 places in Group Stage ?

JB

ThunbergsAreGo

klose wrote: »

Don't forget big brad jones too, he's between the sticks for em this season.

Shows the standard of the Europa that a team below Brad Jones will be in the final :eek::eek:

JimboJones99

JB81 wrote: »

Yeah, that wasnt the question.

The question was on the five places:

Three places in Group Stage ( 1st, 2nd in PL and Utd through EL ) and two places in Qualifiying ( 3rd and 4th in PL ) ??

or

Four places in Group Stage and one place in Qualifying ( Qualifying place for 4th in PL ) ??

As England are only guaranteed 3 places in Group Stage ?

JB

Next year will be the first year that England are guaranteed 4 places in the group stages, other years the 4th team would have to go through the qualifiers.

I am not sure what happens if there are 5 teams, if Man U win the Europa but finish outside of top 4.

Harry Palmr

Audi Cup 2017: Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Atletico Madrid, AC Milan

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/05/liverpool-play-european-heavyweights-pre-season-tournament-munich/

xabi

its all here - http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2444525.html

All depends on how the CL winner gets on in their domestic league. But 3rd in Premier League will go into group stages regardless.

Knex*

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Audi Cup 2017: Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Atletico Madrid, AC Milan

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/05/liverpool-play-european-heavyweights-pre-season-tournament-munich/

Should give us a good platform to drive on from...

JimboJones99

JimboJones99 wrote: »

Next year will be the first year that England are guaranteed 4 places in the group stages, other years the 4th team would have to go through the qualifiers.

I am not sure what happens if there are 5 teams, if Man U win the Europa but finish outside of top 4.

Sorry, I was wrong, it wont start next season, it will start from 2018/19 season

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3758358/Premier-League-four-automatic-Champions-League-qualification-spots-2018-19.html

JB81

xabi wrote: »

its all here - http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2444525.html

All depends on how the CL winner gets on in their domestic league. But 3rd in Premier League will go into group stages regardless.

Cheers for that, just won a ?10

xabi

JB81 wrote: »

Cheers for that, just won a ?10

Stick my half in the charity box will ya :pac:

cj maxx

Turtyturd wrote: »

Strange, even if you attribute the credit for it to Suarez you can't deny how good it was. Even the atmosphere on here was unreal...although unfortunately it led to the current state of things.

The season was fookin brilliant who ever gets the credit for it . Reignited my 'love'of the club

Sappy404

JB81 wrote: »

Cheers for that, just won a ?10

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/what-happens-if-man-united-win-the-europa-league-epl-ucl-qualifying-situation-explained/news-story/468eb10703564f469f63428a0b2f0c54

Even if United were to finish outside the Premier League top four AND win the Europa League, that would not impact the clubs who finish in the top four.

That is because UEFA rules state a maximum of FIVE teams per country are allowed to compete in the Champions League.

In the Premier League’s case, that would mean the top four EPL finishers and United, should they finish outside the top four and win the Europa League.

If United were to finish inside the top four and win the Europa League, then England’s allocation would remain at four clubs.

For the four clubs who qualify for the UCL through their Premier League standing, the top three automatically reach the group stage while the fourth-placed side has to win a qualifying round to progress through to the group stage.

Whose place would United take I wonder? They go straight into the group stage after all.

OwaynOTT

Knex. wrote: »

Should give us a good platform to drive on from...

Hopefully Klopp gets a new engine for the midfield and we will be a finely tuned machine next season and that Coutihno doesnt say to himself 'I audi get out of here'.

Osmosis Jones

Sappy404 wrote: »

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/what-happens-if-man-united-win-the-europa-league-epl-ucl-qualifying-situation-explained/news-story/468eb10703564f469f63428a0b2f0c54


Whose place would United take I wonder? They go straight into the group stage after all.

They don't really "take" anyone's place, someone has to win the Europa League every year so there's already a spot reserved.

Mr.H

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

They don't really "take" anyone's place, someone has to win the Europa League every year so there's already a spot reserved.

Actually that isnt exactly the truth either is it??

With regards to the top 3 leagues (England Italy and Spain who all have 4 CL qualifying teams)..............

If the winner of the CL and EL both come from the same country, AND finish outside the leagues CL.

Then the EL winner starts at the play off and not group stage

ArmaniJeanss

Sappy404 wrote: »

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/what-happens-if-man-united-win-the-europa-league-epl-ucl-qualifying-situation-explained/news-story/468eb10703564f469f63428a0b2f0c54


Whose place would United take I wonder? They go straight into the group stage after all.

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

They don't really "take" anyone's place, someone has to win the Europa League every year so there's already a spot reserved.

It would be a domino effect through the rest of the countries, but wouldn't effect England.
MUFC win the Europa and get a CL place, and thus the champions of Belgium don't get an automatic place but have to go into the playoff round.
The champions of Slovakia no longer go into the playoff round, instead they start in the first qualifying round.
The champions of Malta don't start in the first round of qualifying, instead they drop back to the prequalifying round in June.

The countries may not be correct but you get the jist.