Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Iused2likebusts

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Let me ask you this. What's your expectancy for Liverpool since Klopp took over and what's your expectancy in particular this season?
You are not acknowledging Klopps inability to adjust tactically. You cannot expect to continue to play a pressing game all season with a limited squad without it taking its toll. Spend the cash or stay where you are.

Fickle sport for sure when two managers who won the league in the last 3 years can be sacked.
But how long does Klopp get? He's got alot more time than the above. Again this romance thing is gone, I can't understand why people obsess over it.
Do you think we should have stuck with moyes or lvg for another season? I'd say the only persons to be happy would have been rivals.

Looking at that squad, Liverpool currently have a decent first 11 but after that it's weak. You will not challenge for a title or trophies on this basis unless it's a fluke and that's that.

Leicester played a totally different game to Klopp. Direct football and allowed the opposition to have most of the ball.
Kante mopped up and set up counter attack. Then Vardy and Marhez were used at pace.
They are lost without Kante now.
Tactically, this was more effective over a sustained period of time and easier on the players physically.

Your points on Chelsea are moot also because you are leaving out the fact they already had top class quality in hazard, fabregas, Costa, matic to name a few and the bench was equally as strong and they won the league with Jose.
Matic was arguably there best player.

But **** happens, form dropped and Jose fell out with them. But the quality players did not leave with him.
Add to that Conte quite possibly purchased the biggest steal in English football in some years in Kante. And now they will win the title this year.

The Liverpool squad in its entirety does not compare whatsoever.

Also, consistency wins you leagues not a blitz-go all out attitude every team you face.
You have to be able to grind results in between the big games and this means having a plan b or c.
Liverpool struggle to do so with klopp.
Arsenal have struggled for years.
Utd won leagues by playing some of the games poorly and winning. Same with Chelsea same with City.

Last point, the board at Liverpool are equally to blame.
As I said with better resources at his disposal I'd expect better results. But he still has shown some inept from a tactical perspective regardless.
If Liverpool are to step up a level he has to be given the relevant funds this summer. Then here can be no more excuses.
I'd expect it to be his last window if things continue to go downhill.

The pressing game isn't really taking its toll on the squad. A lot of the teams we have played lately don't keep possession so we can't press them if they just kick it long. The 3 best performances since the turn of the year spurs utd Chelsea were all against teams that allowed us to press .There was nothing wrong with the squads sharpness in those games. The other 4 games Sunderland was less than 48 hours after the city game so was always going to be a lottery . Swansea at home didn't play well still did enough to win. Hull and Leicester away are the type of games where I think klopp does need to mix it up and has made mistakes. I think his favoured eleven is too small and lightweight in games like this. He needs to play origil over one of his front four in games like this. Lucas at cb was a dreadful mistake aswell. 5 away games left and for 4 of them I'd hope he changes his tactics .

Iused2likebusts

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

.................He needs to play origil over one of his front four in games like this. Lucas at cb was a dreadful mistake aswell. 5 away games left and for 4 of them I'd hope he changes his tactics .

Coutinho isn't at his best on the left in a front 3 IMO, he's out of position there. Interchanging is all well and good but Mane is ideal on the right, Coutinho isn't on the other side.

Bobby is best central (allegedly) and is un droppable it seems.

Origi for Lallana & Moreno for Mane at 66 mins was good in a way, gave Origi guts of 30 minutes to make an impact.

murpho999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And in January...

I think the collapse in January and Monday's defeat has come as a major shock to Klopp as he has learnt that his players are not as good as he first thought, some are clearly mentally weak.

A question put to him about this in the post match press conference was telling. Not in the answer he gave but how he reacted to being asked it. Was like a truth hitting home.

Big challenge ahead for him to try and get this squad playing and winning again but I think he knows now that he needs upgrades in the summer.

Need to find players with a winning mentality and hopefully FSG put the money up.

MD1990

Augeo wrote: »

Be great to watch Sturridge play in the CL next season. Such a shame Klopp can't figure out a way to utilise Daniel.

I don't think he will be starting for a CL club next season.

Wherever he goes next will be interesting in terms of injury. If his injuries clear up & he can play more games & look fitter you would have took at Liverpool's medical staff.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

murpho999 wrote: »

I think the collapse in January and Monday's defeat has come as a major shock to Klopp as he has learnt that his players are not as good as he first thought, some are clearly mentally weak.

A question put to him about this in the post match press conference was telling. Not in the answer he gave but how he reacted to being asked it. Was like a truth hitting home.

Big challenge ahead for him to try and get this squad playing and winning again but I think he knows now that he needs upgrades in the summer.

Need to find players with a winning mentality and hopefully FSG put the money up.

Is there an echo in here your post is practically the exact same as my last one written to avoid plagiarism

murpho999

Jovanni Rhythmic Ladybug wrote: »

Is there an echo in here your post is practically the exact same as my last one written to avoid plagiarism

Well if you want to be like that; I posted something similar, so maybe you're the palgiarist or we just have the same opinion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102763926

rob316

Surely Gomez deserves a chance to start instead of Lucas. Start Origi over Firmino too, he has been awful for most of the season now. Sure he has great work rate but its goals we need and he hasn't returned any in a while.

I know we'll trounce Arsenal because if there's a more spineless bunch than us its Arsenal and we'll probably beat City but we have Burnley in between. Amazing I'm more worried about Burnley.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

murpho999 wrote: »

Well if you want to be like that; I posted something similar, so maybe you're the palgiarist or we just have the same opinion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102763926

Ah relax will ya

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

I don't think he will be starting for a CL club next season.

Wherever he goes next will be interesting in terms of injury. If his injuries clear up & he can play more games & look fitter you would have took at Liverpool's medical staff.

Well whatever about injuries if he's played in a system that suits (anything but Klopp style really) the goals will flow, I've no doubt about that.

rob316 wrote: »

.........

I know we'll trounce Arsenal .............

3 pts against them is as good as 3 pts against Leicester at this stage, better even.
If we don't win neither 6 or 7 pts from 8 PL games is overly impressive.

5starpool

£20m loss announced by the club. I'm not sure what funds will actually be available for restructuring. We could bring in 60m or so in revenue selling the likes of Moreno, Sturridge Sakho and more if we sell Can because he won't agree a new deal but none of that helps our strength in depth problems.

NukaCola

Firmino has 3 goals in 19 games and no assists. I think he's a fine player and yes he does offer more than just goals but I think we all can see he's been off for for a while now and he really needs a few games on the bench.

Also probably time to see how the likes of Karius, Gomez, Moreno, Sturridge, Grujic, Stewart, Ojo and Origi are doing by getting more game time. I know there has been injuries etc but either they are good enough and we use them or they aren't and they are gone. I'm not saying play them all together, we should probably rotate when 1/2 players that have lost form.

NukaCola

Apparently PSG wanted Danny on loan in Jan according to Melissa Reddy(reliable?), not sure if that was mentioned here. Apparently gone in the summer, which will come as no surprise to anyone here.

5starpool

NukaCola wrote: »

Apparently PSG wanted Danny on loan in Jan according to Melissa Reddy(reliable?), not sure if that was mentioned here. Apparently gone in the summer, which will come as no surprise to anyone here.

Ya, was all mentioned in here last night.

Harry Palmr

5starpool wrote: »

£20m loss announced by the club. I'm not sure what funds will actually be available for restructuring. We could bring in 60m or so in revenue selling the likes of Moreno, Sturridge Sakho and more if we sell Can because he won't agree a new deal but none of that helps our strength in depth problems.

20 million is nothing really in the context of a turnover of about 300m, it'll have no consequences with regard to the transfer pit er pot.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

20 million is nothing really in the context of a turnover of about 300m, it'll have no consequences with regard to the transfer pit er pot.

Indeed, accounted for by the stadium work no doubt. A planned loss.
No problem.

Blondie919

5starpool wrote: »

£20m loss announced by the club. I'm not sure what funds will actually be available for restructuring. We could bring in 60m or so in revenue selling the likes of Moreno, Sturridge Sakho and more if we sell Can because he won't agree a new deal but none of that helps our strength in depth problems.

What's the story with Can? Is he being offered a deal but he's not taking it?

MD1990

Augeo wrote: »

Well whatever about injuries if he's played in a system that suits (anything but Klopp style really) the goals will flow, I've no doubt about that.



3 pts against them is as good as 3 pts against Leicester at this stage, better even.
If we don't win neither 6 or 7 pts from 8 PL games is overly impressive.

Depends on who he joins. Don't see any top 6 clubs in England going for him. Woudn't start at PSG. I wouldn't be so sure he would stay fit playing regularly either.

5starpool

Blondie919 wrote: »

What's the story with Can? Is he being offered a deal but he's not taking it?

Pretty much. I don't know what the problem is, but out of contract at the end of next season so I'd imagine he'll be sold if nothing agreed soon. He isn't important enough to keep as long as possible even if he leaves for nothing.

Harry Palmr

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, accounted for by the stadium work no doubt. A planned loss.
No problem.

The other thing to remember is that the accounts end May 2016, the new TV deal worth 50m a quid year for 2016-2019 had not kicked in.

greendom

MD1990 wrote: »

Depends on who he joins. Don't see any top 6 clubs in England going for him. Woudn't start at PSG. I wouldn't be so sure he would stay fit playing regularly either.

Nice might be a good fit, especially as Mario is beginning to outstay his welcome

5starpool

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The other thing to remember is that the accounts end May 2016, the new TV deal worth 50m a quid year for 2016-2019 had not kicked in.

They haven't, but prices will go up too.

I think it's a reasonable assumption that income will increase by more than 50m next year, with an extra 50m in TV money, more income from the new stand, and less money as no Europe this season which might cancel each other out.

Increased expense due to the new stand will be in place for several years, and player fees and wages are still on sharply increasing curves.

If we get CL I think it's obvious we will spend more than if we get Europa League or even nothing. Even 7th though will likely get the crappy EL spot (unless there is a big upset in the FA Cup) so we should be in something anyhow, but we won't increase depth by having EL next season I'd say, which will be a big restricting factor. Even CL we'll have a thinner squad than the others.

Crash Bang Wall

Is it the players that are the problem at the minute, or the manager, or a combination of both?

Surely a manager should be picking a team and system to suit the players at his disposal, and not playing the way the gaffer wants us to play

Thinking about it, for me at least, there is no balance......nothing down the left, no solidity in MF and no constant threat upfront ie a No 9.

I think Klopp has to up his game and come up with Plan B and C to breakdown stubborn defences

Agent Coulson

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Is it the players that are the problem at the minute, or the manager, or a combination of both?

I think Klopp has to up his game and come up with Plan B and C to breakdown stubborn defences

It's a combination of both for sure Klopp is as much to blame as the players as he has shown against City he can play a different system that works but I think the club as whole think they can bulldoze through the so called weaker teams even though it's been proven we struggle to do it.



When it comes to Plan B, C etc etc I'm pretty sure we have been saying the same about Rodgers, Kenny, that guy that was there for 6 months, Rafa, Houllier, Evans and Souness.

Liverpool over the last 27 years have never had a problem beating the top teams it's always come down to the bottom half teams that costs Liverpool.


I don't know the answer to why no manager has been able to sort it out but it is crazy.

NukaCola

Different personnel would help massively. I mean, a player that can take a corner or freekick would be a start.

brevity

NukaCola wrote: »

Different personnel would help massively. I mean, a player that can take a corner or freekick would be a start.

Liverpool need chutzpah. Cajones. Billy big balls.

They might have that in Klopp but it's needed on the pitch as well.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

...........but we won't increase depth by having EL next season I'd say................

We will have no choice.
EL, PL & two domestic cups will require it.

Klopp showed he can trim a squad, he needs to build one now.

5starpool

Augeo wrote: »

We will have no choice.
EL, PL & two domestic cups will require it.

Klopp showed he can trim a squad, he needs to build one now.

I know we need it, I can't see it happening, at least not with proper quality where we have a solid 18 or so players who don't reduce first XI quality when chosen, and a few more senior players who can fill in if needed before resorting to the 18 year olds (except the exceptional ones).

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

I know we need it, I can't see it happening, at least not with proper quality where we have a solid 18 or so players who don't reduce first XI quality when chosen, and a few more senior players who can fill in if needed before resorting to the 18 year olds (except the exceptional ones).

Like anything ......... bit of compromise needed

Considering we play Milner at LB, Lucas at CB, bobby as main striker, Coutinho as LWF, Henderson at DM etc I can't fathom why Klopp seems to be so fussy about getting players that exactly suit what he reckons he needs.

MD1990

Augeo wrote: »

Like anything ......... bit of compromise needed

Considering we play Milner at LB, Lucas at CB, bobby as main striker, Coutinho as LWF, Henderson at DM etc I can't fathom why Klopp seems to be so fussy about getting players that exactly suit what he reckons he needs.

Not hard to fathom at all.
He believes if he can get the team playing to a similar level to Dortmund he will be very successful.

He is probably now realising some players are not up too it or cannot improve to become to the level required.
We were overachieving earlier in the season & now we are about where we have been for years or even slightly above it. Very often since 2010 we have been out of contention by March for the CL places.

Harry Palmr

Augeo wrote: »

Like anything ......... bit of compromise needed

Considering we play Milner at LB, Lucas at CB, bobby as main striker, Coutinho as LWF, Henderson at DM etc I can't fathom why Klopp seems to be so fussy about getting players that exactly suit what he reckons he needs.

If managers have one massive failing and it's the one that gets all of them if they hang about long enough - excessive self belief (AKA ego). They think they can mould almost any player to fit their plan at a high level of performance regardless of the raw material.

The next batch of signings have to be purpose built for the role in question so the likes of Milner at LB and Lucas as a CB can be phased out for once and for all (it is worth noting the players in the 'wrong' positions are all Rodgers era or before signings).

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

.......... (it is worth noting the players in the 'wrong' positions are all Rodgers era or before signings).

If we are noting that ........... it's worth noting one of them (Lucas) plays at CB while Klavan sits on the bench.

............. I wouldn't be against the idea of 2 or 3 utility type players being out of position in cup games and early EL matches tbh. Just not keen on it in the PL when it's the only show in town for us and there's 5/6 players in tweeked positions.

Nerdlingr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

....(it is worth noting the players in the 'wrong' positions are all Rodgers era or before signings).

What difference does that make?

Harry Palmr

Augeo wrote: »

If we are noting that ........... it's worth noting one of them (Lucas) plays at CB while Klavan sits on the bench.

Yep been wondering about that myself - does he still have a slight niggling knock?

Nerdlingr wrote: »

What difference does that make?

Well he is mending and making do to a degree, he knew he couldn't replace the entire senior squad (only 5 left who were actually contributing something - Toure, Benteke, Ibe, Škrtel and Allen. The rest were on loan, banished (Enrique) or youth) so he is shuffling pieces around. Having discovered Moreno really is useless he puts Milner in for example, but rather than just have him fill in for a while he decides he is now the No 1 LB and didn't even bother looking for another in January. He wasn't going to put any of his own signings there as he bought them for specific roles.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Yep been wondering about that myself - does he still have a slight niggling knock?.......

unless he's not 100% in training after the virus thing he had. Was off his feet for a week iirc with that

NukaCola

I can excuse Klopp when it comes to recruitment, tactics, lineups etc for varying reasons I have expressed before and I dont want to get into but I suppose what we have seen now is how he handles a team in poor form and worryingly, I think he struggles massively.

We could say he has only been here a short time and make excuses but we also seen it at Dortmund where he struggled to turn around a huge slump there after a long time in the job.

I'm not suggesting its easy to turn things around and no manager is immune to it I just wonder is it an inability to change tactics/personnel on a game by game basis? Many will argue that the tactics were fine before xmas, but when things are going wrong a change of tactics is needed to get points on the board in a difficult period. We changed the system against City and got the points we needed, yet we go to Leicester play a high line where Vardy isolated Lucas a lot, basically making Leicesters only strength/option viable.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

..............

We could say he has only been here a short time and make excuses...............

30PL games last year, two domestic cup runs and EL final and 26 PL games this season........... 3 transfer windows.

He's gone past being a blow in now :pac:

BorneTobyWilde

Nothing wrong with our players

We can put out a formation with players playing where they should be.

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

He's gone past being a blow in now :pac:

When you put it that way the excuse seems fairly flimsy! :pac:

I was just putting forward the argument that Klopp builds his squad etc and it bears fruit after a period of time rather than quick fixes.

Harry Palmr

Transfer rumours -

Naby Keïta, Lepzigs midfield dynamo who shares the same agent as Sadio Mane which may or may not be coincidental. A goal.com story is normally budgie cage lining as a rule but Melissa Reddy is fairly well connected to Liverpool.

Kicker and SportBild plus others say Leon Goretzka of Schalke 04 is another central midfielder on the Klopp radar, if nothing else we might be getting a clue as to what he thinks of Can!

MD1990

NukaCola wrote: »

I can excuse Klopp when it comes to recruitment, tactics, lineups etc for varying reasons I have expressed before and I dont want to get into but I suppose what we have seen now is how he handles a team in poor form and worryingly, I think he struggles massively.

We could say he has only been here a short time and make excuses but we also seen it at Dortmund where he struggled to turn around a huge slump there after a long time in the job.

I'm not suggesting its easy to turn things around and no manager is immune to it I just wonder is it an inability to change tactics/personnel on a game by game basis? Many will argue that the tactics were fine before xmas, but when things are going wrong a change of tactics is needed to get points on the board in a difficult period. We changed the system against City and got the points we needed, yet we go to Leicester play a high line where Vardy isolated Lucas a lot, basically making Leicesters only strength/option viable.

This is not true.

He did turn things around at Dortmund in 14/15. They were in the relegation zone in January.

But they finished 7th,qualified for Europe & got to a cup final .

martyos121

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Transfer rumours -

Naby Keïta, Lepzigs midfield dynamo who shares the same agent as Sadio Mane which may or may not be coincidental. A goal.com story is normally budgie cage lining as a rule but Melissa Reddy is fairly well connected to Liverpool.

Kicker and SportBild plus others say Leon Goretzka of Schalke 04 is another central midfielder on the Klopp radar, if nothing else we might be getting a clue as to what he thinks of Can!

Keita reminds me of Kante when I see him, he's exactly the type of player we need and he's still young. He's probably about as important to Leipzig as Kante was to Leicester last season though so he might be a difficult one to get.

We don't Goretzka though, he's a promising young player who's already made an impact in the Bundesliga but we're fine for attacking midfielders with Lallana, Gini, Coutinho and Firmino who can all play his role.

NukaCola

MD1990 wrote: »

This is not true.

He did turn things around at Dortmund in 14/15. They were in the relegation zone in January.

But they finished 7th,qualified for Europe & got to a cup final .

Its not true that he struggled to turn it around?

MD1990

NukaCola wrote: »

Its not true that he struggled to turn it around?

They struggled in the first half of the season.

Don't think climbing from about 15th up to 7th from February was struggling to turn it around.

SuperTortoise

Lucas vs Vardy was always going to end in disaster, one of the fastest players on the break against one of the slowest CB's in the leauge and add in a high line like we always play and that was that.

There was one point in the game i think it was just after we scored and Lannana went in for a 50/50 and pulled out of it(as usual) and i shouted at the tv 'you ****ing coward', It was'nt a response i'd thought about, it just jumped out of me, but there was truth to it.
You see we just don't have anyone in the middle of the pitch that will get stuck in, 2 out of our starting 11 will get stuck in if needs be and they are Milner and Clyne. The rest of them are just too soft, they'll chase and harry the opposition all day long but when it comes to actually sticking the foot in they chicken out of it every time.
That's a major problem when we need to chase a game.

For the current system to work we need better full backs, Milner is ok and will do a job for you wherever he plays, and Clyne is an outstanding defender but he looks like a deer in the headlights when he gets the ball high up the pitch, Clyne plays too far up the pitch to make use of his best attributes.
We also need more steel in the midfield, Henderson's best position is as a box to box midfielder playing further forward than he currently is, again playing him there does'nt make use of his two best attributes his passing range and his engine.

I could go on but you get the idea, i am 100% behind Klopp, he's a world class manager that's proven at the highest level and despite our recent form i see what he's trying to do with the team and i think he will succeed in the long term.

NukaCola

MD1990 wrote: »

They struggled in the first half of the season.

Don't think climbing from about 15th up to 7th from February was struggling to turn it around.

It took him 4/5 months to do it. What would you call it?

MD1990

NukaCola wrote: »

It took him 4/5 months to do it. What would you call it?

A freak season ruined by an incredible amount of bad luck with injuries.

Once he got players back he turned it around.

NukaCola

MD1990 wrote: »

A freak season ruined by an incredible amount of bad luck with injuries.

Once he got players back he turned it around.

I dont know the ins and outs of who was missing but I would expect more from that squad with or without key players.

noodler

Hear Goetze has been diagnosed with a muscle weakening disease? Poor bloke

Charlie19

Too disappointed to even comment on the other night so here is a quote from Lord DJIBRIL... posted on TAW.

Different example of Gerrards leadership.

https://twitter.com/TheAnfieldWrap/status/836906953829920768