Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Osmosis Jones

Klopp lead Dortmund to 6th and 5th place finishes in his first two seasons before winning consecutive league titles. I'm not saying we'll win the league next year or that what's happening now is forgettable, but I'm confident things will get much much better.

Agent Coulson

Are we going to start getting the former Liverpool pro's and Carra doing what utd's media guys did for Giggs now with Gerrard every time Liverpool go through a sticky time.

The he'd make a great manager he knows the club from the ground up stuff.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Are we going to start getting the former Liverpool pro's and Carra doing what utd's media guys did for Giggs now with Gerrard every time Liverpool go through a sticky time.

The he'd make a great manager he knows the club from the ground up stuff.

Didn't work for Giggs and it wont work for Gerrard.

Knex*

Gerrard was 25 at the time of that CL final as well.

We've no leaders like himself, Carra, Hyypia, Hamann etc anymore.

Charlie19

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Are we going to start getting the former Liverpool pro's and Carra doing what utd's media guys did for Giggs now with Gerrard every time Liverpool go through a sticky time.

The he'd make a great manager he knows the club from the ground up stuff.

I don't think that quote was intended as a plug for Gerrard to get Klopps Job. I haven't even heard anyone question Klopps position, well apart from some supporters.

I'm all for the five year plan approach, unless there is clearly no signs of improvement.

BullBlackNova

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Klopp lead Dortmund to 6th and 5th place finishes in his first two seasons before winning consecutive league titles. I'm not saying we'll win the league next year or that what's happening now is forgettable, but I'm confident things will get much much better.

There you have it, lads.
Cold, hard facts.
Next year is our year.

:cool:

I'm not overly bothered by the good or bad at Dortmund tbh...... folks expecting anything like a like for like pattern are analgous to roulette dreamers IMO.... PL has never been more competitive and is probably going to continue in that regard.

Our team & squad is better than 6 pts in 7 games, the team was full strength except for Henderson (and Lovren who isn't great to be fair more often than not) on Monday and after a warm weather training camp.


The players were woeful for the mostpart, two weeks after their last game but after a training camp which you'd imagine was intensive stuff at times.

We had a favoured front 4, Lallana in midfield, bobby central and Mane & Coutinho up there..... no excuses, they were dogsh1t for 70 ish mins at least.

We were woeful for all iirc the games Mane missed.

We are all expecting a big show and a victory against Arsenal, I fear we won't get one ... Arsenal have their own problems now and Wenger if he has any sense at all should play to our weaknesses. I said the same about the Mauricio but thankfully he mustn't watch us much :pac:

BorneTobyWilde

We have a decent squad, we just need to realize we don't need to win a game in first 10 minutes. You should never lose your defensive shape, we kickoff with it lost.
It's a crazy approach.

BorneTobyWilde

______Mig_____




___Matip___Lucas


______Can________

__________Wijnald

Clyne__________Milner

____Lallana__________

_Mane__________Coutinho

_______Firmino

Lets get real, that is our formation. That is us, not in 88 minute of a cup final with us needing a goal, no , this is us away to Leicester in the first 10 seconds.

Agent Coulson

Since we haven't tightened up in defence without Moreno and are conceding just as many goals I'd take having him in the team for the odd fcuk up he gives away just to have his pace and ability to get to the byline and deliver a cross now instead of playing Milner as LB.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Since we haven't tightened up in defence without Moreno and are conceding just as many goals I'd take having him in the team for the odd fcuk up he gives away just to have his pace and ability to get to the byline and deliver a cross now instead of playing Milner as LB.

Does he have that ability?

I cant stand him, he would ruin watching Liverpool for me, i realise this is a bit extreme and I'm half joking but he is infuriating.

Moreno..... the odd fnck up he gives away :eek:

Jesus.

~Rebel~

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Are we going to start getting the former Liverpool pro's and Carra doing what utd's media guys did for Giggs now with Gerrard every time Liverpool go through a sticky time.

The he'd make a great manager he knows the club from the ground up stuff.

To be fair that's not what Cisse said at all. Never mentioned him in relation to the 'pool job, just said he thought he'd be a great manager one day, if he wanted to be, and being at the academy is a great start for him. And he also talked just as much about Klopp, how much he likes him, and how he thinks Klopp will get us a title in the next two seasons.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/03/djibril-cisse-believes-istanbul-speech-proves-steven-gerrard-will-great-manager/

BorneTobyWilde

20 different centre back partnerships under Klopp.

That is 19 to many .

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2XueWJj67I

~Rebel~

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2XueWJj67I

Ugh, it is actually so ****ing frustrating that we own Mama Sakho but are playing Lucas at CB.

Personal grudges and falling outs with players are only things you can justify if you're winning. But throwing away a resource like a great CB when we're shaky as **** back there is very annoying.

redzerdrog

Sakho is far from a great cb

redzerdrog

redzerdrog wrote: »

Sakho is far from a great cb

He's much better than Lucas though who Klopp seems to rate above Klavan.
And I reckon Sakho is better than Lovren too & he can pass a ball out from defence far better than either Lucas or Lovren too.

In saying that we don't quite know what went on behind the scenes so presumably he was being a real pain in the ass, to be exciled to the U23s for months would be punishment enough for most though.

We'll probably never know the full story.

NukaCola

Matip and Sakho would have been our best CB partnership I think. I was all in favour of giving him another chance. I am a bit shocked that he was turfed out for being late a few times etc As Augeo said we dont know what happened behind the scenes but you'd imagine something really bad happened if that is the punishment.

rob316

Sakho isn't a great but he is far better than Lucas and Lovren. Matip and Sakho could of been a great partnership though. We miss Sakho dominance on bringing forward the ball into midfield and starting an attack, Matip just doesn't have the same power and distance in his pass.

Good debut there looking at the highlights, stopped an almost certain goal.

I agree though its incredibly frustrating watching Lucas in CB while Sakho is frozen out.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A bit here about Ronnie Moran, worth a read.

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/ronnie-moran-one-liverpool-legend-and-his-battle-with-dementia-115254?utm_content=buffer6b4e3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Milkers

The really frustrating thing for me is that Klopp is obviously a great coach and a really well-coached and disciplined version of Sakho is exactly what is needed. Watching the highlights there I had forgotten how aggressive and dominant he is in aerial duels, usually by halftime the opposition are afraid to contest looping high balls with him. Such a pity he made a hames of his situation/maybe Klopp was too stubborn.

Milkers

Milkers wrote: »

...................Such a pity he made a hames of his situation/maybe Klopp was too stubborn.

I would doubt it.
I'd say the club were well p1ssed off over the fat burner thing anyway despite Sakho being "cleared".

Also the time he stormed out after Rodgers not picking him v Everton was telling.

I'm just puzzled that Klavan hasn't been getting a look in.

BullBlackNova

Augeo wrote: »

I would doubt it.
I'd say the club were well p1ssed off over the fat burner thing anyway despite Sakho being "cleared".

Also the time he stormed out after Rodgers not picking him v Everton was telling.

I'm just puzzled that Klavan hasn't been getting a look in.

Sakho's attitude stinks - it always has.

It did at PSG and they let it go for quite a while because he was local and popular, but eventually they bit the bullet.

These stories show it pretty clearly: http://www.espnfc.com/club/paris-saint-germain/160/blog/post/1852629/sakho-exit-from-psg-a-complicated-one
(And here's the Anfield Wrap last August referencing that ESPN article http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/08/mamadou-sakho-klopp-finds-similar-problems-ancelotti-blanc/)

Johnson described Sakho’s move as “inevitable,” but also “completely avoidable,” citing his downfall from becoming the youngest captain in Ligue 1 to fourth-choice centre-back at PSG.

“Under Antoine Kombouare, himself a former PSG player, he was indispensable,” Johnson recalled.

“But once Carlo Ancelotti replaced the Frenchman, he disagreed and benched Sakho before eventually stripping him of the captaincy.”

This came due to a number of “character flaws” in Sakho’s makeup, with Johnson lambasting “his attitude, a lack of discipline including poor dieting habits and fractious relationships with certain members of staff.”

“He arguably never embraced being a true professional,” Johnson continued, later adding “not only was he exempt from criticism when it perhaps would have done him some good, but he was staunchly defended by the club and especially the fans.”

“The underlying belief is that neither Ancelotti nor [Laurent] Blanc rated Sakho as serious or reliable enough to lead PSG to the glory they seek,” he explained.

Perhaps most tellingly, Johnson concluded that “in essence, he needs to grow up,” and this serves as a parallel to his current situation under Klopp.

THIS sounds familiar...

His attitude, a lack of discipline including poor dieting habits and fractious relationships with certain members of staff, particularly in the early days, put his future at the club in jeopardy a long time ago. Many of his coaches were unhappy with his unprofessional demeanour, peaking with a nasty altercation with a journalist regarding his social habits, and PSG actually almost got rid of him as a teenager. However, at that time Sakho focused enough on his football to stay, although he arguably never embraced being a true professional.

He stormed off ahead of the Everton game as you say and clearly just got on Klopp's bad side from day one.

However talented he is, if he doesn't tow the line, Klopp won't suffer it - some might say that's Jurgen being 'stubborn', others would say its strong management.

Klavan not getting a look in is unusual because Lucas is clearly struggling, but my main point of frustration is that there was no effort to replace Sakho despite the shortages in the position.

Maybe we did move and the only option was striking legend Steven Caulker, but it seems as though we are woefully short in several positions and that it's hurting us now.

Nerdlingr

Jesus, I'd forgotten about Caulker. *shudder*

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

I'm just puzzled that Klavan hasn't been getting a look in.

He's played far more than Lucas has though, right up to his illness a few games ago I think he played 7 out of the last 7 league games. Lucas was probably kept because he had a good game against Spurs? Anyway, surely the mistake has been learned now and we wont see Lucas start at CB any more. If he does I'll be worried.

brevity

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Sakho's attitude stinks - it always has.

It did at PSG and they let it go for quite a while because he was local and popular, but eventually they bit the bullet.

These stories show it pretty clearly: http://www.espnfc.com/club/paris-saint-germain/160/blog/post/1852629/sakho-exit-from-psg-a-complicated-one
(And here's the Anfield Wrap last August referencing that ESPN article http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/08/mamadou-sakho-klopp-finds-similar-problems-ancelotti-blanc/)



THIS sounds familiar...



He stormed off ahead of the Everton game as you say and clearly just got on Klopp's bad side from day one.

However talented he is, if he doesn't tow the line, Klopp won't suffer it - some might say that's Jurgen being 'stubborn', others would say its strong management.

Klavan not getting a look in is unusual because Lucas is clearly struggling, but my main point of frustration is that there was no effort to replace Sakho despite the shortages in the position.

Maybe we did move and the only option was striking legend Steven Caulker, but it seems as though we are woefully short in several positions and that it's hurting us now.

It's unacceptable behaviour and I think an example should be set of how to behave professionally but I think Liverpool shot themselves in the foot by getting rid of him completely.

This issue started in the pre-season. Surely they could have organised for a replacement in January?

POKERKING

I asked my Liverpool mates(im a city fan) would they take Gael Clichy? They all said no, this surprised me, id think he would be decent at liverpool, solid defensively and fit/athletic, just gets let down going forward. He is on a free this year.

If i was Klopp i would drop 50m over to the etihad and ask for Hart, Mangala and get in Clichy. Thats three of your problem positions sorted.

I would also chance my arm with a bid for Iheanacho.

All those players are good/great players they just dont fit in with Peps way and would all improve Liverpool.

5starpool

Hart, Mangala? Jaysus, no thanks. We need to improve in those areas but need less calamity prone players, not more. What age is Clichy?

Agent Coulson

POKERKING wrote: »

I asked my Liverpool mates(im a city fan) would they take Gael Clichy? They all said no, this surprised me, id think he would be decent at liverpool, solid defensively and fit/athletic, just gets let down going forward. He is on a free this year.

If i was Klopp i would drop 50m over to the etihad and ask for Hart, Mangala and get in Clichy. Thats three of your problem positions sorted.

I would also chance my arm with a bid for Iheanacho.

All those players are good/great players they just dont fit in with Peps way and would all improve Liverpool.

I'd give you £5 for them and City would have to pay their wages as well and even then I'd be asking for my £5 back with interest.

BorneTobyWilde

There was a time when you could pause an Arsenal game at any given time in a match to see a perfectly aligned back 4.
Pause Liverpool playing and you see Milner and Cylne on the edge of the oppositions box.
It's too much. Needs to be a balance,I dunno why Coutinho and Mane are not receiving ball from Milner and Clyne at halfway line. Up to the forwards to create, and attacking midfielders to make runs beyond them. Need to mix it up, we are too predictable.

Vanolder

Lot of lads lashing out at me because I could see the team and manager had massively overachieved in the first half of the season and were on the cusp of being found out for the mid table team it is... Lads are hurting, i get it, but shooting the messenger is not the answer.

Klopp's arrogance and his high pressing game have taken its toll on a thin squad. Shipping out Sakho, the goal keeper situation, not being able to manage and get the best out of Sturridge... He needs 5 starters to make that a title challenging team - Keeper, centre half, left back, CM and striker.

He also needs a plan b.

noodler

Vanolder wrote: »

Lot of lads lashing out at me because I could see the team and manager had massively overachieved in the first half of the season and were on the cusp of being found out for the mid table team it is... Lads are hurting, i get it, but shooting the messenger is not the answer.

Klopp's arrogance and his high pressing game have taken its toll on a thin squad. Shipping out Sakho, the goal keeper situation, not being able to manage and get the best out of Sturridge... He needs 5 starters to make that a title challenging team - Keeper, centre half, left back, CM and striker.

He also needs a plan b.

You should hold an awards ceremony for yourself.

POKERKING

5starpool wrote: »

Hart, Mangala? Jaysus, no thanks. We need to improve in those areas but need less calamity prone players, not more. What age is Clichy?

Hart is far better than Mignolet and Karius(and im not harts biggest fan). I actually think he is perfect keeper for you.

Mangala is good defender with huge potential, he is actually a far better defender than any of the others we have(not hard), but he doesnt fit peps play it around messing at the back philosophy. In nearly any other team Mangala would look good, he was important part of us getting to semi final of cl last year, kept real madrid quite over two legs where we lost to a deflection. He is doing well at Valencia now. With so few quality centre halves around and all the top teams competing for them it would be difficult to do better.

Clichy is 31. He is free though. You have an old centre midfielder playing there in his first ever season in that position and you have one of the worse left backs in the country as his competition. He would be a solid signing. Alternatively you either a)persist with Milner b) waste a chunk of your relatively small budget buying elsewhere, considering Jeffery Schlupp went to palace for 12m you are looking at 20m plus for a decent one if you are lucky enough to find a decent one that you beat other clubs to.

POKERKING

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I'd give you £5 for them and City would have to pay their wages as well and even then I'd be asking for my £5 back with interest.

Why?

Harry Palmr

POKERKING wrote: »

I asked my Liverpool mates(im a city fan) would they take Gael Clichy? They all said no, this surprised me, id think he would be decent at liverpool, solid defensively and fit/athletic, just gets let down going forward. He is on a free this year.

If i was Klopp i would drop 50m over to the etihad and ask for Hart, Mangala and get in Clichy. Thats three of your problem positions sorted.

I would also chance my arm with a bid for Iheanacho.

All those players are good/great players they just dont fit in with Peps way and would all improve Liverpool.

No one would really have wanted any of them at their peak (given the likely asking price, never mind now and still given the likely asking price. Mangala!?

Iheanacho is a player of interest but for all that he has been in the margins lately he'd be mad to leave City for regular football at Liverpool as he wouldn't get it (see Origi).

Vanolder wrote: »

Lot of lads lashing out at me because I could see the team and manager had massively overachieved in the first half of the season and were on the cusp of being found out for the mid table team it is... Lads are hurting, i get it, but shooting the messenger is not the answer.

You do know the last person to mention you was Rebel 3 days and nearly 100 posts ago?

edit Apart from noodler :mad:

brevity

noodler wrote: »

You should hold an awards ceremony for yourself.

Get PWC to audit it.

NukaCola

POKERKING wrote: »

I asked my Liverpool mates(im a city fan) would they take Gael Clichy? They all said no, this surprised me, id think he would be decent at liverpool, solid defensively and fit/athletic, just gets let down going forward. He is on a free this year.

If i was Klopp i would drop 50m over to the etihad and ask for Hart, Mangala and get in Clichy. Thats three of your problem positions sorted.

I would also chance my arm with a bid for Iheanacho.

All those players are good/great players they just dont fit in with Peps way and would all improve Liverpool.

A solid no on Hart and Mangala, I dont think they'd improve us and lets say they did for the sake of argument the improvement would be minimal. I'd be hoping we go for better calibre of player. As for Clichy, yea I do like him but he's pushing on now, how much would he go for?

NukaCola

POKERKING wrote: »

waste a chunk of your relatively small budget buying elsewhere

Not sure our budget would be small tbh

Iused2likebusts

Hart is a huge upgrade on mig and what I have seen from karius so far.

NukaCola

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Hart is a huge upgrade on mig and what I have seen from karius so far.

Hart isn't the player he was. Can be as much a liability on his day.

NukaCola

Vanolder wrote: »

Lot of lads lashing out at me because I could see the team and manager had massively overachieved in the first half of the season and were on the cusp of being found out for the mid table team it is... Lads are hurting, i get it, but shooting the messenger is not the answer.

Klopp's arrogance and his high pressing game have taken its toll on a thin squad. Shipping out Sakho, the goal keeper situation, not being able to manage and get the best out of Sturridge... He needs 5 starters to make that a title challenging team - Keeper, centre half, left back, CM and striker.

He also needs a plan b.

4 weeks ago you said we'd make top 4.

POKERKING

NukaCola wrote: »

A solid no on Hart and Mangala, I dont think they'd improve us and lets say they did for the sake of argument the improvement would be minimal. I'd be hoping we go for better calibre of player. As for Clichy, yea I do like him but he's pushing on now, how much would he go for?

Clichy is out of contract in the summer. As is zabaletta, sagna, navas and yaya on that subject.

What kind of caliber of player do you think you can get better than Hart or Mangala?

And with regards budget, i meant in relation to the competition, likes of city, utd, chelsea etc i assumed it was a given to assume your budget would be relatively small? Am i wrong?

NukaCola

POKERKING wrote: »

Clichy is out of contract in the summer. As is zabaletta, sagna, navas and yaya on that subject.

What kind of caliber of player do you think you can get better than Hart or Mangala?

And with regards budget, i meant in relation to the competition, likes of city, utd, chelsea etc i assumed it was a given to assume your budget would be relatively small? Am i wrong?

Apologies I didn't see the relative.

For the 50M quoted I'd be surprised if our scouting network couldn't bring in 2 better players. I dont mind Hart but the fee and wages would be massive for a player in decline. I'm not a fan of Mangala, I'm not saying he's not decent I just think we could find better for the fee City would want and the wages he's likely to be on.

Clichy on a free would be decent business even if its only a stop gap tbh.

Nerdlingr

Mangala is a bang average defender. City paid 40m for him and shipped him after realising how poor he was. Hart is as limp wristed as they come. If they were as good as being made out they'd be back at city securing their defence not ours.

POKERKING

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Mangala is a bang average defender. City paid 40m for him and shipped him after realising how poor he was. Hart is as limp wristed as they come. If they were as good as being made out they'd be back at city securing their defence not ours.

I disagree on Mangala he is not bang average and the reason as i stated that hes not back at City is that hes not a pep player and once pep decides on something thats pretty much it, doesn't mean your a bad player, ask Ibrahimovic. We paid a fortune for him, you obliviously wouldnt pay anywhere near that,(knowing city we prob give him away) but these days even a **** defender costs you 20m.

Hart is a superior keeper than Karius and Mignolet are, hes superior to what we have too but hes not the future for us see above for not been a pep player.

Nerdlingr

POKERKING wrote: »

I disagree on Mangala he is not bang average and the reason as i stated that hes not back at City is that hes not a pep player and once pep decides on something thats pretty much it, doesn't mean your a bad player, ask Ibrahimovic. We paid a fortune for him, you obliviously wouldnt pay anywhere near that,(knowing city we prob give him away) but these days even a **** defender costs you 20m.

Hart is a superior keeper than Karius and Mignolet are, hes superior to what we have too but hes not the future for us see above for not been a pep player.

Anytime I've seen Managla play he's been average. Dont think pellegrini fancied him in the end either. Always seemed to have a mistake in him every game. He wasn't the answer to city's defence then and he isnt now. Pep or no pep.

Hart is average too. I've seen enough of his mistakes, weak wrists, shots going straight through him, poor decision making, tunnel shouting, to know he's not an upgrade on Mignolet.

Vanolder

NukaCola wrote: »

4 weeks ago you said we'd make top 4.

And I very quickly turned around and said I was blinded momentarily ... I predicted Liverpool would finish 6th when they were a mere 5/6 points behind Chelsea in second - I think the writing was on the wall for quite a while for anyone that understands football and has a rational mind.

Osmosis Jones

Don't forget about playing at a certain level.

NukaCola

Vanolder wrote: »

And I very quickly turned around and said I was blinded momentarily ... I predicted Liverpool would finish 6th when they were a mere 5/6 points behind Chelsea in second - I think the writing was on the wall for quite a while for anyone that understands football and has a rational mind.

Did you? Cant say I remember. Who cares anyway, you're a flip flopper......