Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

LuckyLloyd

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'd say Lucas' future mainly depends on his lab numbers and if he's able to maintain an elite standard of fitness/conditioning/recovery, particularly important in the position he plays. Can't see a reason to let him go if he's still excelling in that regard. If he starts to fall short he'll be shipped out fast imo. Can speculate all day about if you think he's good enough but it's mainly science that dictates these things these days.

That's fine - I don't see a huge amount in the 'eye test' around his minutes on the pitch that indicate a drop off. And even if there is some drop off, it's balanced with the fact that he's not tasked with 50+ game seasons - 30 to 40 appearances is what will be required.

And this type of discussion or coversation is fully decoupled from the 'he's just an average player that only ever won one trophy and is replaceable' emotional spiel I was responding to.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's fine - I don't see a huge amount in the 'eye test' around his minutes on the pitch that indicate a drop off. And even if there is some drop off, it's balanced with the fact that he's not tasked with 50+ game seasons - 30 to 40 appearances is what will be required.

I'd say 10-20 games next season are what would be expected of Lucas if he stayed. He'd not be starting CL games or big PL matches if everyone is fit.

Morzadec

murpho999 wrote: »

Well we could have sales like below:

Sakho ?30m
Sturridge ?25-30 (I think he should stay).
Moreno ?10m
Lucas ?10m
Markovic ?10m
Stewart ?5m
Bogdan ?5m
Flanagan ?5m
Randall ?5


There's a ?100m there with little impact on the squad.

A lot of these figures are fantasy stuff imo. Also many of those players definitely affect squad depth.

30 million on Sakho is hugely optimistic. I think he could be a 30m player but any buying club knows Klopp doesn't really want to keep him.

I don't think many premium clubs will go in for Sakho, so you're looking at decent Premier League teams (Soton, Palace etc...). For them 30m is way too much to spend on a CB.

Sturridge will not want to leave Liverpool and that big fat salary. No team will want to give him anywhere near that salary given his injury record. The only way they might be tempted would be if we were willing to make huge concessions with the transfer fee. My reckoning is Sturridge stays, but if we are to sell him then there is no way a team will pay 30m plus 100,000 in wages for a crock. Losing Sturridge would affect squad depth.

Moreno 10m - sounds about right to me but still not convinced we'd get suitors. Can't think of a suitor off the top of my head but Spain caps will stand him in good stead and maybe a Spanish team will fork out. 10m is a lot for a mid-level Spanish team to spend on a left back though. Moreno would affect our squad depth too. He has a role to play as back up, and even an option off the bench (good counter attacking option when defending a lead). So losing him would affect our squad.

Lucas - 10m - really can't see us getting that much for a player nearing 30

Even the likes of Markovic and Stewart might be nice to keep for cup games.

I think we're only going to make 20-30m in sales before we start to see significant blows to our squad quality/depth.

So I think maybe 120m is a fairer estimate of what we have to strengthen

citytillidie

match thread for the final is toxic and it is still hours away from kick off, nice to know reaching the semi final of a cup is pissing it away lol

mormank

Morzadec wrote: »

A lot of these figures are fantasy stuff imo. Also many of those players definitely affect squad depth.

30 million on Sakho is hugely optimistic. I think he could be a 30m player but any buying club knows Klopp doesn't really want to keep him.

I don't think many premium clubs will go in for Sakho, so you're looking at decent Premier League teams (Soton, Palace etc...). For them 30m is way too much to spend on a CB.

Sturridge will not want to leave Liverpool and that big fat salary. No team will want to give him anywhere near that salary given his injury record. The only way they might be tempted would be if we were willing to make huge concessions with the transfer fee. My reckoning is Sturridge stays, but if we are to sell him then there is no way a team will pay 30m plus 100,000 in wages for a crock. Losing Sturridge would affect squad depth.

Moreno 10m - sounds about right to me but still not convinced we'd get suitors. Can't think of a suitor off the top of my head but Spain caps will stand him in good stead and maybe a Spanish team will fork out. 10m is a lot for a mid-level Spanish team to spend on a left back though. Moreno would affect our squad depth too. He has a role to play as back up, and even an option off the bench (good counter attacking option when defending a lead). So losing him would affect our squad.

Lucas - 10m - really can't see us getting that much for a player nearing 30

Even the likes of Markovic and Stewart might be nice to keep for cup games.

I think we're only going to make 20-30m in sales before we start to see significant blows to our squad quality/depth.

So I think maybe 120m is a fairer estimate of what we have to strengthen

While I actually agree that some of those valuations are on the high side I must remind you that 15mill for Ibe seemed high and 32mill for Benteke at the time seemed high too but Klopp stuck to his guns and got it.

Morzadec

mormank wrote: »

While I actually agree that some of those valuations are on the high side I must remind you that 15mill for Ibe seemed high and 32mill for Benteke at the time seemed high too but Klopp stuck to his guns and got it.

That's a great point, both fees higher than i would've thought.

Ibe we weren't really looking to sell though, and Benteke is such a proven striker that i can see why we got the 30m. To be fair that was one of those strange deals that was fantastic for the player, and for both clubs.

I wonder if there's a way back for Sakho. I'm actually in the camp that rates him very highly, and I'd rather keep him than sell him for a cut price or loan him. I always felt he could come back but i felt that the celebration at Anfield was really ill advised and turned me against him somewhat.

Back to the original point, i would still say that 40m would be the stretch selling goal for players who were totally unused / out on loan last year.

20m for Sakho
10m for Markovic
10m for the remaining players (Flan, Bogdan etc..).

I think even those figures may be on the optimistic side.

Moreno, Lucas, Sturridge, arguably even Stewart - all played a part last year to a greater or lesser degree and likely more will be asked of them with more games next year, so selling these players means looking to bring 7 or 8 players instead of 4 or 5

mormank

Morzadec wrote: »

That's a great point, both fees higher than i would've thought.

Ibe we weren't really looking to sell though, and Benteke is such a proven striker that i can see why we got the 30m. To be fair that was one of those strange deals that was fantastic for the player, and for both clubs.

I wonder if there's a way back for Sakho. I'm actually in the camp that rates him very highly, and I'd rather keep him than sell him for a cut price or loan him. I always felt he could come back but i felt that the celebration at Anfield was really ill advised and turned me against him somewhat.

Back to the original point, i would still say that 40m would be the stretch selling goal for players who were totally unused / out on loan last year.

20m for Sakho
10m for Markovic
10m for the remaining players (Flan, Bogdan etc..).

I think even those figures may be on the optimistic side.

Moreno, Lucas, Sturridge, arguably even Stewart - all played a part last year to a greater or lesser degree and likely more will be asked of them with more games next year, so selling these players means looking to bring 7 or 8 players instead of 4 or 5

I share those feelings in bold. That celebration with Sahko was too much imo. I don't see a way back for him after that...as we all know it was a "fcuk you" to klopp from 2 players he deemed surplus to requirements. If it wasn't Benteke he celebrated with like that it wouldn't have been as obvious...but it was.

Anyway Sturridge does have a similar pedigree to Benteke in the sense that he has proven he can score goals at this level. His fitness is the only reall issue but I see his situation being similar to that of RVP while at Arsenal and they still got 20mill I think it was from Utd while he only had 1 year remaining on his contract which was very high at the time but he stayed injury free and won them the title so obviously it was money well spent. I certainly see someone taking a punt on Sturridge if we decide to sell, I can even see him having 1 or 2 seasons where he gets 20+ goals much like RVP at some stage before he retires. He is just too injury prone and as much as I love a fit and firing Sturridge I think it is time for him to move on.

I would like to keep Lucas and Moreno also, especially if we end up signing a young LB like Ryan Sessegnon. Lucas is gone tho imo...his interview after the Boro game was a goodbye imo. If he does leave he can leave with head held high. Not many people thought he would be anywhere near the club ten years after we signed him. I think the best compliment you can give Lucas is one I read on here actually, that he never started the season in the first 11 for us but always ended it in the first 11.

Agent Coulson

Reading the new Jack Reacher book at the moment Night School Lee Child always uses footballers or managers names usually Villa's as he is a fan but is using Klopp in this one as it's mostly set in Germany.

OwaynOTT

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Reading the new Jack Reacher book at the moment Night School Lee Child always uses footballers or managers names usually Villa's as he is a fan but is using Klopp in this one as it's mostly set in Germany.

is Steve Bruce in them?

Agent Coulson

OwaynOTT wrote: »

is Steve Bruce in them?

Nah he writes his own :P

Talisman

whatawaster wrote: »

ATT (3-4) - New Signing (30m), Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, Lallana, Milner, Sturridge, Origi, Ings,

Two of our supposed targets Timo Werner (Leipzig) and Gaston Ramirez (Malaga) could be bought for a combined total of less than £30M if the reported clauses in their contracts were activated.

Agent Coulson

Talisman wrote: »

Two of our supposed targets Timo Werner (Leipzig) and Gaston Ramirez (Malaga) could be bought for a combined total of less than £30M if the reported clauses in their contracts were activated.

Doesn't he play for Middlesbrough these days or is another player with the same name?

Harry Palmr

Talisman wrote: »

Two of our supposed targets Timo Werner (Leipzig) and Gaston Ramirez (Malaga) could be bought for a combined total of less than ?30M if the reported clauses in their contracts were activated.

Sandro Ramirez! You nearly caused me to crash my computer!

Talisman

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doesn't he play for Middlesbrough these days or is another player with the same name?

I was thinking the same as I clicked the submit reply button.

mosstin

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Doesn't he play for Middlesbrough these days or is another player with the same name?

He's just a Spanish Stewart Downing. It won't be him.

Kerrigooney

Dolberg to put Utd to the sword followed by an announcement that he's joining us would be nice.

sword1

I was just going to post something similar, alot of perspective signing 's on that ajax team

Charlie19

Ajax will never get back into this game.

Simply just not able to contend with Utds aerial threat.

mosstin

Charlie19 wrote: »

Ajax will never get back into this game.

Simply just not able to contend with Utds aerial threat.

As if a poxy route to the final wasn't enough, they get a poxy goal to open the scoring.

5starpool

Charlie19 wrote: »

Ajax will never get back into this game.

Simply just not able to contend with Utds aerial threat.

No chance unfortunately.

Harry Palmr

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Dolberg to put Utd to the sword followed by an announcement that he's joining us would be nice.

Is he any good? Hard to tell tonight as he hasn't had the ball yet! :pac:

Kerrigooney

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Is he any good? Hard to tell tonight as he hasn't had the ball yet! :pac:

Ajax have been dire tonight but yes he's good. I've watched him a few times since we were linked with him a few months ago. Still young but knows where the goal is. Is capable of some outrageous flashes of skill too.

Charlie19

On tonight so far, the only players that caught my eye would be Ziyech and Younes. Spelling?

Liam McPoyle

Charlie19 wrote: »

On tonight so far, the only players that caught my eye would be Ziyech and Younes. Spelling?

Zieych looks tasty alright.

Charlie19

Rod Munch wrote: »

Zieych looks tasty alright.

I had only heard of four of the ajax starting xi and the two I previously mentioned were not in that four.

shamrock55

Beggars belief how this pile of crap utd team ends up in th cl,its a funny aul game alright

quarryman

mosstin wrote: »

As if a poxy route to the final wasn't enough, they get a poxy goal to open the scoring.

Poxy route my arse.

Completely different to how Liverpool got special dispensation in 2006? Now that was poxy.

The Europa league winner qualifying for the CL is a fantastic rule that gives incentive to win the thing.

Utopia Parkway

Ajax is the type of team you want to play in a European final. Talented but young, raw and inexperienced.

5starpool

quarryman wrote: »

Poxy route my arse.

Completely different to how Liverpool got special dispensation in 2006? Now that was poxy.

The Europa league winner qualifying for the CL is a fantastic rule that gives incentive to win the thing.

Yay, you're here.

It was 2005. If you're going to spout rubbish, at least get the basic facts back.

Lord Trollington

What an utterly pathetic final.

Kerrigooney

quarryman wrote: »

Poxy route my arse.

Completely different to how Liverpool got special dispensation in 2006? Now that was poxy.

The Europa league winner qualifying for the CL is a fantastic rule that gives incentive to win the thing.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: as usual.

Kerrigooney

Lord Trollington wrote: »

What an utterly pathetic final.

Brutal.

Nalz

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I find it hard to laugh at Arsenal supporters to be honest, we aspire to their level of consistent nearly men mediocrity. On the other hand when Ajax beat Man Utd......

Will they meet in the Champions league group stages next season you think? Ajax would have to qualify for the groups, like Liverpool I think. Maybe they'll meet you never know

Osmosis Jones

How long 'til we've got one in here now that the match is over?

hefferboi

Sad state of affairs when your team is in a European cup final and all you can do is talk about Liverpool for the 90 minutes in the match thread.

Nalz

5starpool wrote: »

Yay, you're here.

It was 2005. If you're going to spout rubbish, at least get the basic facts back.

You knew what he meant, no need to be touchy.

Nalz

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

How long 'til we've got one in here now that the match is over?

I'm here. Was waiting to reply to that "when Ajax beat United" post.

Harry Palmr

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

How long 'til we've got one in here now that the match is over?

Nalz wrote: »

You knew what he meant, no need to be touchy.

This long

Kerrigooney

Win a European trophy and straight in here. Hahahaha. Classic.

citytillidie

quarryman wrote: »

Poxy route my arse.

Completely different to how Liverpool got special dispensation in 2006? Now that was poxy.

The Europa league winner qualifying for the CL is a fantastic rule that gives incentive to win the thing.

Well that was down to the FA, the example was set in 2000 by Spain when Real won it and did not finish in the qualification spots in the League, Spanish FA then changed the last spot to Real so the holders could defend their crown.

FA would not do it so it forced UEFA's hands to have their holders defend their crown in their main club competition. But don't let facts get in your way

BorneTobyWilde

That is 4 confirmed English team in CL and maybe Liverpool to join them to make 5. That will be good CL next season. Too many league 3 sides in CL every year.
The 8-0 score lines are a joke. Good to have bigger clubs in there.

cj maxx

quarryman wrote: »

Poxy route my arse.

Completely different to how Liverpool got special dispensation in 2006? Now that was poxy.

The Europa league winner qualifying for the CL is a fantastic rule that gives incentive to win the thing.

You mean when they were champions ???

Osmosis Jones

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This long

Christ I wasn't even quick enough.

citytillidie

hefferboi wrote: »

Sad state of affairs when your team is in a European cup final and all you can do is talk about Liverpool for the 90 minutes in the match thread.

90 mins and all day of the build up lol #obsessed lol

Nalz

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This long

I was here before that. Replying to your post where you were talking about Ajax beating United...in this very thread!

corwill

citytillidie wrote: »

Well that was down to the FA, the example was set in 2000 by Spain when Real won it and did not finish in the qualification spots in the League, Spanish FA then changed the last spot to Real so the holders could defend their crown.

FA would not do it so it forced UEFA's hands to have their holders defend their crown in their main club competition. But don't let facts get in your way

That was in spite of the FA having previously said they would do just that, they even took the page down off their website when the pressure came on them, iirc.

mormank

quarryman wrote: »

Poxy route my arse.

Completely different to how Liverpool got special dispensation in 2006? Now that was poxy.

The Europa league winner qualifying for the CL is a fantastic rule that gives incentive to win the thing.

Nah I think that was Uefa's fcuk up. They never planned for the outcome where the winner's of the champion's league wouldn't qualify through their own league.
What was the story with the old European cup when only champion's qualified? Did the cup winner's also go back into the cup to defend their title even if they didn't win their owwn league as I'm sure happened many times.

hefferboi

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Win a European trophy and straight in here. Hahahaha. Classic.

The match thread is literally all about Liverpool from United supporters.

Nalz

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Win a European trophy and straight in here. Hahahaha. Classic.

Was either that or make a cuppa. Drank too much tea in work today so came on this as I remembered that post.

corwill

Nalz wrote: »

Was either that or make a cuppa. Drank too much tea in work today so came on this as I remembered that post.

What a rich and meaningful life.