Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Pyjamarama

noodler wrote: »

Alonso had one half iffy season and Rafa was looking to replace.

He didn't want rid of him the summer he left though and let's not pretend what Rafa wanted when Real came calling.

And nobody bought him the season before when he was available for 12m... the simple (often ignored fact) is that he was often injured while here and had two poor seasons in a row. One due to form and one due to injury disruption. For all the mocking about it Barry went to Man City and it worked out pretty f*cking well for them.

Anyone (not you i know you were just the last post on the topic) calling Rafa a clown or clueless doesn't have a breeze. That man held the club on his shoulders when everything behind closed doors was falling around him. He should be viewed as the legend he is by all intelligent liverpool fans. I can only assume that Zak Flaps is a) not a liverpool fan or b) too young to remember how amazing we were at times under Rafa. Still hurts that we ran into THAT United team when we had the best midfield in the world (and the best striker in the world too).

martyos121

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I think it all depends on context really. Honestly, i'd love more players that would care enough to give out to others who aren't putting in the effort. I'm not sure that "bust up" (god i ****ing hate that term) would have occurred if he played at Liverpool. It seems like he's grown very frustrated at the mentality permeating the club. Very different from Balotelli and Sakho's issues, where Balo is just lazy and admitted only putting in 20% effort, and Sakho was a child. Sanchez is a winner, and wants to work with other people with his drive.

Sometimes, you need conflict. Sometimes a situation needs to be shaken up, and strong words need to be said. And I think it's hard to argue that the context over at Arsenal right now isn't one of those times, especially coming on the back of last season which was there for the taking for them if they'd shown a bit more heart.

All the context I needed was Sanchez blatantly smiling about his team being anhiliated tonight. People can try to twist that to fit any sort of agenda, but it's absolutely fcuking deplorable. Once again, it's the sign of negative character. If he's furious at his Arsenal teammates for letting the side down, how do you think he'd react with our absolute hopelessness to break many sides down only to be picked off on the counter attack time and time again? He wouldn't be long throwing the same hissy-fits, and you'd quickly have more than just me slamming his shîtty attitude. You can hypothesise that he'd fix the first part of that problem, sure, but Arsenal aren't bad at all going forward and are let down by their defence and tactics, which seems to be the root of his anger. Aren't those the same two areas hampering us lately? The same "bust-up" could very easily occur at Liverpool for those reasons, to argue your point that it wouldn't have.

I'm getting myself too worked up over this I know, but I detest the kind of behaviour I'm seeing from him lately, especially tonight's incident. Suarez had a similar edge, but it only really existed on the pitch, and the one time he stirred the pot when he tried to leave in 2013, he was put in his place and came back into the side and gave his absolute best season for us before moving on to bigger things. Sanchez on the other hand has created a situation which he absolutely cannot mend, nor does it seem he wants to.

I don't agree that you sometimes need conflict, you can count on one hand the amount of times it's led to anything good in a team, and I have my doubts it'll come good for Arsenal.

What we need and what Klopp publicly said he needs (paraphrasing of course) are players who are professionals off the field, and passionate on it. For me, Sanchez only matches the latter. There's so many others out there who can do both, and a lot of them are talented enough for us to be scouting.

~Rebel~

martyos121 wrote: »

All the context I needed was Sanchez blatantly smiling about his team being anhiliated tonight. People can try to twist that to fit any sort of agenda, but it's absolutely fcuking deplorable. Once again, it's the sign of negative character. If he's furious at his Arsenal teammates for letting the side down, how do you think he'd react with our absolute hopelessness to break many sides down only to be picked off on the counter attack time and time again? He wouldn't be long throwing the same hissy-fits, and you'd quickly have more than just me slamming his shîtty attitude. You can hypothesise that he'd fix the first part of that problem, sure, but Arsenal aren't bad at all going forward and are let down by their defence and tactics, which seems to be the root of his anger. Aren't those the same two areas hampering us lately? The same "bust-up" could very easily occur at Liverpool for those reasons, to argue your point that it wouldn't have.

I'm getting myself too worked up over this I know, but I detest the kind of behaviour I'm seeing from him lately, especially tonight's incident. Suarez had a similar edge, but it only really existed on the pitch, and the one time he stirred the pot when he tried to leave in 2013, he was put in his place and came back into the side and gave his absolute best season for us before moving on to bigger things. Sanchez on the other hand has created a situation which he absolutely cannot mend, nor does it seem he wants to.

I don't agree that you sometimes need conflict, you can count on one hand the amount of times it's led to anything good in a team, and I have my doubts it'll come good for Arsenal.

What we need and what Klopp publicly said he needs (paraphrasing of course) are players who are professionals off the field, and passionate on it. For me, Sanchez only matches the latter. There's so many others out there who can do both, and a lot of them are talented enough for us to be scouting.

You seem to be expecting him to crack at the drop of a hat, but to my knowledge this is the first time Sanchez has had issues with his team. He's 28, and has been roundly revered at every club, including Arsenal up to this point. It seems more like this was the straw that broke the camels back after 3 seasons of underperformance at Arsenal. This is the 3rd time in a row he's played Bayern with Arsenal and conceded 5 goals. And their underperformance isn't just failing to break down teams - it's the absolute lack of fight in their team. Their whimpering performances where they just fold. It's also why their fans have roundly turned on their manager.

Even tonights incident is being blown out of all proportion. As everything is nowadays where everybody piles on baying for blood at the merest hint of emotional responses they're unhappy with. For one thing, it's the most natural thing in the world in the face of disaster to smile with a "are you ****ing serious?!". There's a reason "If you don't laugh, you'll cry" is a common phrase. But people love to attribute whatever emotions they want to a situation to further their own position.

We're obviously on totally polar opposite sides on this one anyway - personally I would adore more guys like him or Suarez or Roy Keane in our team. It's a personality type we're roundly missing, and as long as you play your best, you'll never have problems with them. They raise the bar of expectation.

<edit> Side note: I think it's telling that if you poke your head into the arsenal thread, it's all anti-Wenger, not Sanchez.

martyos121

~Rebel~ wrote:

We're obviously on totally polar opposite sides on this one anyway - personally I would adore more guys like him or Suarez or Roy Keane in our team. It's a personality type we're roundly missing, and as long as you play your best, you'll never have problems with them. They raise the bar of expectation.

On the phone now so harder to quote and bolden certain bits, but the last couple of sentences don't really work for us as a club. Yes we need strong personalities we both agree on that (though I limit that to on the pitch only) but you allude to these type of guys causing problems when the team isn't at their best, which happens to us an awful lot, probably more than Arsenal in fact. What then? Also Suarez as I mentioned had mostly excellent behaviour away from the pitch so I'd have no issue with more players like him. In fact I have no problem signing any player who plays on the edge, as long as it has no negative effects on our club.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree I guess. As you said we're looking at it from two different viewpoints so we won't end up agreeing on much on this topic.

Iused2likebusts

If there is one player in the league I'd love at Liverpool its Sanchez. He would be a perfect fit not a chance it will happen though. Him smiling on the bench or having a training ground bust up are insignificant its what he always produces on the pitch that matters. That is 100% effort and great quality.

murpho999

martyos121 wrote: »

All the context I needed was Sanchez blatantly smiling about his team being anhiliated tonight. People can try to twist that to fit any sort of agenda, but it's absolutely fcuking deplorable. Once again, it's the sign of negative character. If he's furious at his Arsenal teammates for letting the side down, how do you think he'd react with our absolute hopelessness to break many sides down only to be picked off on the counter attack time and time again? He wouldn't be long throwing the same hissy-fits, and you'd quickly have more than just me slamming his shîtty attitude. You can hypothesise that he'd fix the first part of that problem, sure, but Arsenal aren't bad at all going forward and are let down by their defence and tactics, which seems to be the root of his anger. Aren't those the same two areas hampering us lately? The same "bust-up" could very easily occur at Liverpool for those reasons, to argue your point that it wouldn't have.

I'm getting myself too worked up over this I know, but I detest the kind of behaviour I'm seeing from him lately, especially tonight's incident. Suarez had a similar edge, but it only really existed on the pitch, and the one time he stirred the pot when he tried to leave in 2013, he was put in his place and came back into the side and gave his absolute best season for us before moving on to bigger things. Sanchez on the other hand has created a situation which he absolutely cannot mend, nor does it seem he wants to.

I don't agree that you sometimes need conflict, you can count on one hand the amount of times it's led to anything good in a team, and I have my doubts it'll come good for Arsenal.

What we need and what Klopp publicly said he needs (paraphrasing of course) are players who are professionals off the field, and passionate on it. For me, Sanchez only matches the latter. There's so many others out there who can do both, and a lot of them are talented enough for us to be scouting.

I really thiunk you are reading far too much into Sanchez's 'laugh'. For me it was more of a smirk and also a reaction of something that was said to him.

A brief moment, exaggerated by the media and says nothing about his character at all.

He's a top class player who would walk into any side and I find his recent strops show the strong mentality of a winner who cares and not what you are trying to make out.

J Mysterio

Bingo

Knex*

Yeah, watched the video of the incident and didn't think it was anything more than pure frustration/horror from Sanchez.

Its actually a common reaction for people to laugh when witnessing disaster or stress. There's even reports of people laughing when watching things such as their home burning to the ground.

Nothing about Sanchez's reaction looked like he was enjoying the situation, tbh.

NukaCola

Zak Flaps wrote: »

I repeat.....what an absolute clueless clown!

I often found it hard to understand how people can hold this view. The amount of trophies we challenged for, the amount of finals/semis/quarters and league finishes we had.....this guy wasn't a one season wonder. To have the sort of seasons Rafa was serving up now would be incredible.

I'm not his biggest fan, I didn't always agree with him, and I thought it was probably time for him to go when he did but I still remember him fondly. He'll go down as one of our greatest ever managers and rightly so.

NukaCola

Sanchez laugh was just a laugh but in the context of what has happened this week its not surprising it will be focused on. In fairness, your game face should be on, when your team is being thrashed its the last thing you should be doing. He's only human though.

Harry Palmr

Sanchez is going to join Juve or PSG (Sturridge/Sanchez/Cavani?!) I'd sooner speculate madly on forwards that might join Liverpool.

Agent Coulson

It doesn't look like Henderson will be fit for the Burnley game.

martyos121

martyos121 wrote: »

.................

So no, I wouldn't agree he's the "personification of a Klopp player" when you take into account that Klopp values off-the-field behaviour so highly...............

Drink driving doesn't seem to bother him.

Blondie919

Looks like Can might be sold during the summer. It's only gossip from the daily mirror but........

http://www.football365.com/news/gossip-emre-can-leave-isco-to-city-gibson-to-arsenal

Knex*

Blondie919 wrote: »

Looks like Can might be sold during the summer. It's only gossip from the daily mirror but........

http://www.football365.com/news/gossip-emre-can-leave-isco-to-city-gibson-to-arsenal

I do think selling him would be a mistake. 70k for Can is surely manageable.

Why stick with him through his poor patch this year/injury if you're not in it for the long haul, tbh.

We're also not in a position to be giving away talent. Especially if the likes of Juventus think he's good enough for them.

I say this as one of Can's biggest critics this year as well.

Harry Palmr

David Maddox knows little but clearly the longer Can refuses to sign the greater the likelihood he'll be sold this summer. Wonder what he'd fetch given how poor he has been when given a chance this season.

Him and Lucas out, bring in someone like Naby Keïta and make Marco Grujic the general option for midfield.

Keita - Hendo - Grujic - Stewart
Wijnaldum - Lallana - Grujic - Ejaria

Blondie919

I think we should hold onto him for squad depth but he should not be first choice midfield. I think (and hope) he will get better. Under Klopp surely he will?

Knex.

Knex. wrote: »

I do think selling him would be a mistake. 70k for Can is surely manageable. .............

Indeed, especially when we'll have so many more games next season.

Still if he moves on we won't be out of pocket anyway.

Harry Palmr

Kirkby development proposal as a PDF

http://www.simonswoodlaneconsultation.co.uk/downloads/exhibition-banners.pdf

BorneTobyWilde

Roy Keane would not be laughing if his team was getting thrashed 10-2, even if the worlds best standup comedian was telling him jokes. No excuse for Sanchez.

Buford T. Justice XIX

martyos121 wrote: »

All the context I needed was Sanchez blatantly smiling about his team being anhiliated tonight. People can try to twist that to fit any sort of agenda, but it's absolutely fcuking deplorable. Once again, it's the sign of negative character. If he's furious at his Arsenal teammates for letting the side down, how do you think he'd react with our absolute hopelessness to break many sides down only to be picked off on the counter attack time and time again? He wouldn't be long throwing the same hissy-fits, and you'd quickly have more than just me slamming his shîtty attitude. You can hypothesise that he'd fix the first part of that problem, sure, but Arsenal aren't bad at all going forward and are let down by their defence and tactics, which seems to be the root of his anger. Aren't those the same two areas hampering us lately? The same "bust-up" could very easily occur at Liverpool for those reasons, to argue your point that it wouldn't have.

I'm getting myself too worked up over this I know, but I detest the kind of behaviour I'm seeing from him lately, especially tonight's incident. Suarez had a similar edge, but it only really existed on the pitch, and the one time he stirred the pot when he tried to leave in 2013, he was put in his place and came back into the side and gave his absolute best season for us before moving on to bigger things. Sanchez on the other hand has created a situation which he absolutely cannot mend, nor does it seem he wants to.

I don't agree that you sometimes need conflict, you can count on one hand the amount of times it's led to anything good in a team, and I have my doubts it'll come good for Arsenal.

What we need and what Klopp publicly said he needs (paraphrasing of course) are players who are professionals off the field, and passionate on it. For me, Sanchez only matches the latter. There's so many others out there who can do both, and a lot of them are talented enough for us to be scouting.

+£1

NukaCola

Nalz wrote: »

Deja vu.....or are you dying to say something?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102811293&postcount=880

Utopia Parkway

Blondie919 wrote: »

Looks like Can might be sold during the summer. It's only gossip from the daily mirror but........

http://www.football365.com/news/gossip-emre-can-leave-isco-to-city-gibson-to-arsenal

Looking to double his wages from 35K to 70K. To be honest 70K doesn't seem excessive for someone who plays quite a lot. He's not first choice but he's basically first sub in midfield. Still means he's playing quite a bit.

Buford T. Justice XIX

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Roy Keane would not be laughing if his team was getting thrashed 10-2, even if the worlds best standup comedian was telling him jokes. No excuse for Sanchez.

Roy also got angry at manU celebrating a cup semi final win and said it wouldn't have happened while he was playing.

Cue pics the next day of himself and Yorke sitting in a dressing room after a cup semifinal win with big smiley faces on them and a bottle of champagne opened in front of them.

Roy Keane is a ..................... bit of a ........mixed up.......lad.

NukaCola

Not an unreasonable request from Can tbh......

Utopia Parkway

NukaCola wrote: »

Not an unreasonable request from Can tbh......

Seems a bit rich the club wanting to pay him like he's still a "prospect". He's 23 now and an established member of the first team squad. He should be entering his prime over the next 4 to 5 years. In the same situation I'd certainly be looking for more money. I know his performances have been up and down but I can't blame him one bit for wanting to get paid well through his peak years.

monkey9

Very surprised he's only on 35 grand. Yeah, i don't blame him looking for more.

Vicxas

monkey9 wrote: »

Very surprised he's only on 35 grand. Yeah, i don't blame him looking for more.

Ah but does he deserve more? that's the 1 million dollar question.

On the basis of his development over the last 3 years i don't think double his wages is warranted.

corwill

monkey9 wrote: »

Very surprised he's only on 35 grand. Yeah, i don't blame him looking for more.

The reality is he'll get 70k or something like it somewhere else, he's a German international.

I wonder if there's any haggling over trying to link part of his package to appearances or performance indicators. I seem to remember reports of them overplaying that hand previously.

Chardee MacDennis

Vicxas wrote: »

Ah but does he deserve more? that's the £3,640,000 per year question.

ftfy

Vicxas

Vicxas wrote: »

Ah but does he deserve more? that's the 1 million dollar question.

On the basis of his development over the last 3 years i don't think double his wages is warranted.

Markets dictate wages.

J Mysterio

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Roy Keane would not be laughing if his team was getting thrashed 10-2, even if the worlds best standup comedian was telling him jokes. No excuse for Sanchez.

Thats nonsense.
They are very different personalities. Roy is a singular individual.

Pepp1989

I wouldn't have any problem with the club not giving Can 70k a week. His form has been muck. Wouldn't like to see him rewarded for it. If he wants to leave then so be it. Better for teammates to see there are consequences.

I have no problem with lallana getting a raise. Well earned it.

martyos121

I think in today's market, Can is definitely worth 70k a week even with his poor form. The issue is that we aren't the club to pay that amount for a player who's (hopefully) far from the finished article, it could skew the wage structure and lead to others making unreasonable demands. He's done nothing to earn a double-your-money deal, but he will easily get that amount elsewhere. That's why I can see him leaving.

Agent Coulson

Can is a solid squad player right now and if the club want to compete for titles, cups & European trophies in the coming years we need solid to above average squad players and in the world of football today solid squad players wages are going to easily be £70k a week bracket if not more.


Look at the benches that Chelsea, City, Arsenal, utd and even Spurs have compared to ours if the club aren't prepared to pay Can that kind of money (£70k is nothing in this era of football) what kind of squad player do the club think they can attract when they will play for less money that our rivals are going to pay or any team in the PL these days.


If the management team and owners don't think he is worth £70k a week or will improve enough in the time length of a new contract let him go and pay the money to bring in players they do think are worth that money.

Turtyturd

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Roy Keane would not be laughing if his team was getting thrashed 10-2, even if the worlds best standup comedian was telling him jokes. No excuse for Sanchez.

He'd have walked out on them by that stage.

*Just so lurkers/mods know, I mean the Ireland Roy Keane.

MD1990

Can is still a good player not been as bad as some have made him out to be too.
Klopp rates him as well. So to not pay him 70k a week if it is true is a very poor decision.

Milkers

The bottom line is I don't think Can would really be missed if he left tbh. He's not bad and not that good.

Turtyturd

Also think the club should pay up with Can. He's had bad performances but has stepped up in big games and when teams aren't just packed inside their own box he offers driving runs with the ball that nobody else in the team does. Still has a tendency to hold onto the ball too long at times or not spot a pass quick enough but that'll improve with time.

martyos121

I also think we should hold onto him if I wasn't clear about that before. I just don't think we will.

The entire team were dogsh1t for Jan & Feb, Can & Hendo we know aren't great in the same 11.

If Can leaves I'd say we might struggle to get an upgrade........

amber69

Would I be correct to say thanks to the Utd fans for campaigning for a lengthy ban for Mings as he'll now miss the game with pool

SM01

1. Keep Can. Stewart and Lucas can go so long as 1st team replacement(s) come in.
2. The Sanchez smirk/laugh. Jaysus but that's a complete nothing incident. Don't get the mindset of anyone giving out about it. The man is a brilliant player who can change games for the better on his own. I'd love someone with his skill and desire to win at Liverpool.
3. Rafa was, is and always will be a Liverpool legend.

MD1990

It is rare we buy many players over 25.

But if you look at many of the best teams in the CL Real,Bayern & Barca in particular most of there players are over 25 especially the one's who start.

Probably won't happen but we could do with buying some players in there peak rather that trying to develop them & sell.

mosstin

Knex. wrote: »

Yeah, watched the video of the incident and didn't think it was anything more than pure frustration/horror from Sanchez.

Its actually a common reaction for people to laugh when witnessing disaster or stress. There's even reports of people laughing when watching things such as their home burning to the ground.

Nothing about Sanchez's reaction looked like he was enjoying the situation, tbh.

The laugh is doubly understandable given the fact that he plays with Arsonal then.

mormank

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Time to waddle over to their thread, should be interesting.
Sanchez would be unreal for us, won't happen but I think he would be perfect

Wouldn't even get into our starting 11 if a few on here were to be believed! :pac:

mormank

Zak Flaps wrote: »

I repeat.....what an absolute clueless clown!

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

NukaCola

We have a lot of positions to replace next summer. Having to replace a decent squad option because we are unwilling to meet a fairly reasonable amount of wages smacks of the tightness FSG get stick over, and will be an unnecessary extra position to replace.

Damien360

NukaCola wrote: »

We have a lot of positions to replace next summer. Having to replace a decent squad option because we are unwilling to meet a fairly reasonable amount of wages smacks of the tightness FSG get stick over, and will be an unnecessary extra position to replace.

That's a fair comment but only a few weeks ago, you would have struggled to find a Can supporter. Quite a few wanted him out and now everyone wants to pay him more. If we are keeping him to play, pay him. If we are keeping him as a squad player, then 70k is nuts. Or sell him for a profit and replace.

Personally I like him. He has shown potential enough times but he needs his playing position cemented down for him to get better. Not sure anyone has that luxury.

NukaCola

Damien360 wrote: »

That's a fair comment but only a few weeks ago, you would have struggled to find a Can supporter. Quite a few wanted him out and now everyone wants to pay him more. If we are keeping him to play, pay him. If we are keeping him as a squad player, then 70k is nuts. Or sell him for a profit and replace.

Personally I like him. He has shown potential enough times but he needs his playing position cemented down for him to get better. Not sure anyone has that luxury.

Is 70k nuts for a our number 1 midfield cover though? Ings is on 60K and he can probably be seen as 1st choice cover when he comes back. Klavan as first choice CB cover is on 55K.

Also, its obviously totally speculation on my part but I wouldn't think Can says its double or nothing, surely there is leeway in negotiation.

I like him but if Klopp wants rid then thats his call.