Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Charlie19

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Spurs have a much better balanced team than us. Really good goalkeeper and solid back 4 and just as good as us going forward.

Yup would have to agree and only a young a squad too.

brevity

super_furry wrote: »

Alan Oxbow Churchill just isn't worth that kind of money.

I was gonna go with Aqwel Oswald Cobblepot

Agent Coulson

brevity wrote: »

There is a difference between having expensive quality players on the bench and having expensive dross on the bench.

Spend the 35 million, just not on Alex Oxford Chamberlain...

super_furry wrote: »

Alan Oxbow Churchill just isn't worth that kind of money.

brevity wrote: »

I was gonna go with Aqwel Oswald Cobblepot

Lads that's gimmick infringement. :P

toby won't be impressed :mad::D

J Mysterio

brevity wrote: »

I was gonna go with Aqwel Oswald Cobblepot

He's a contemporary of young Trent Alexander-Arnold Esquire.

Harry Palmr

Gbear wrote: »

None of our front 6 are untouchable, except maybe Mane but that's assuming he comes back just as explosive as he was.

We absolutely should be looking to replace every single one of them depending on what targets are available.

:eek: What the ****?!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gbear wrote: »

Our best 11 is the 6th best in the league. That's why we're talking about the reinforcing the first team.

Klopp and City, Utd and Arsenal all being below par is why we are where we are.

None of our front 6 are untouchable, except maybe Mane but that's assuming he comes back just as explosive as he was.

Everyone's having a **** over Coutinho again, but top class attacking players are looking at 25-odd+ goals/assists per season, unless they're providing for even more prolific players or they have a fundamental effect on the general effectiveness and coherency of how the team uses the ball (not all players are measured in goals, of course).

We absolutely should be looking to replace every single one of them depending on what targets are available.
For starters, our front 3 are all extremely flexible, so if we nominally replace two, they can shift around (Firmino behind the striker, Coutinho into Lallana's spot), and there'll be injuries, Europe and all that.

When everyone's fit and everything goes right we look top class against many kinds of team.
We need to be able to systematically put all teams away without being on song.
That's about quality and we don't have it.

That front six has racked up more goals than any other front six in the premier league.

Dunno where you get this idea that out best 11 is 6th in the league. No team plays the best 11 week in week out. Plus we're currently third, and would probabyl still hold fourth even without the extra games played - but the problem is the back 4, not the front 6.

We'll be in Europe in some way shape or form next season, and trust me - we're going to need a squadload more than a best 11 to compete.

5starpool

Harry Palmr wrote: »

:eek: What the ****?!

He's not totally wrong. I'd add Coutinho to Mane, not because he has been consistently outstanding for us (because that's not true) but because if we bought better players in other attacking positions he'd show his class more consistently I feel. Saying we can (not top priority) improve on Firmino, Lallana, Henderson, Can/Wijnaldum is not too unreasonable.

I'd be a bit disappointed if we didn't bring in a midfielder or attacker this summer to at least attempt to upgrade one of those, while still keeping the incumbent also.

Edit: I disagree with his 6th best attack comment though obviously.

Harry Palmr

It's self evident that Liverpool have the best attack by dint of having scored the most goals with the 3rd highest shots at goal, 6th is just laughable.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

:eek: What the ****?!

By replace he of course means upgrade.
To improve you bring in better players, not players to fit in when you have injuries etc.... might drive on the current crop too.

Dogsh1t Jan & Feb wasn't long ago.

Harry Palmr

Augeo wrote: »

By replace he of course means upgrade.
To improve you bring in better players, not players to fit in when you have injuries etc.... might drive on the current crop too.

Dogsh1t Jan & Feb wasn't long ago.

That was down to lack of depth not because the front six are shiote. Gbear seems to have made the wrong diagnosis from the symptoms he's observed.

MD1990

I think we would find it hard to replace Firmino. He has to start as a CF or AM for us. I think he can potentially score 20+ goals nexr season.

Around Europe majority of the best attacking players in terms of goals+assists are 26+. Firmino,Coutinho & Mane have great potential to improve next season. Don't need players to replace them but we don't need players to compete with them to rotate or replace when off form.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's self evident that Liverpool have the best attack by dint of having scored the most goals with the 3rd highest shots at goal, 6th is just laughable.

12th worst defence .... self evident by goals conceded.

6th best starting 11 in pl isn't far off a statement IMO.
If we finish fourth for example ...

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That was down to lack of depth not because the front six are shiote. Gbear seems to have made the wrong diagnosis from the symptoms he's observed.

He said 6th best starting 11.

Harry Palmr

Our defence is crap we all know that, so fixing on the front six is quite irrelevant in that regard, and it would cost a fortune Liverpool doesn't have to find six better frankly.

Utopia Parkway

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Our defence is crap we all know that, so fixing on the front six is quite irrelevant in that regard, and it would cost a fortune Liverpool doesn't have to find six better frankly.

Finding 5 better players than Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Henderson and Wijnaldum would not be easy. In fact it would be very difficult and also bloody expensive. There really is no need for major surgery in that area. We just need to add another two or three quality players to that bunch. Certainly a striker presuming that Sturridge will leave. Another wide player that can play opposite Mane or replace him when he's not available. And probably another central midfielder.

~Rebel~

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Finding 5 better players than Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Henderson and Wijnaldum would not be easy. In fact it would be very difficult and also bloody expensive. There really is no need for major surgery in that area. We just need to add another two or three quality players to that bunch. Certainly a striker presuming that Sturridge will leave. Another wide player that can play opposite Mane or replace him when he's not available. And probably another central midfielder.

I think we do need 2 more top quality players in that area of the pitch though - The number of games Firmino, Lallana, Coutinho, and Mane have actually been able to play together isn't all that high. Drastically lower when you add Henderson in there too. Would like 5 genuine potential starters for those front 3 positions, with Origi as a different option for going a bit more direct.

charolais0153

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Spurs have a much better balanced team than us. Really good goalkeeper and solid back 4 and just as good as us going forward.

Head to heads my friend

Mr.H

To be fair we should definitely be looking to upgrade on our current first XI including our front 6.

All it would mean is getting someone who would force one of our front six onto the bench and would mean they would fight to be even better.

Signing back up players is the wrong thing to do. You sign upgrades and push our best players onto the bench if necessary. If you end up with a better player than firmino then who cares if he gets upset.

Spending 35 million on ox is stupid. The pad has a year left on his contract and was no better than markovic this season.

Instead of rather use the 35 million and chase players like thiago, Moura, tielemens(sp), mahrez or even gelson Martins at Lisbon.

All players that 35 million would be better spent one than ox

Mr.H

Utopia Parkway wrote:

Finding 5 better players than Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Henderson and Wijnaldum would not be easy. In fact it would be very difficult and also bloody expensive. There really is no need for major surgery in that area. We just need to add another two or three quality players to that bunch. Certainly a striker presuming that Sturridge will leave. Another wide player that can play opposite Mane or replace him when he's not available. And probably another central midfielder.

See that's where your wrong in your thinking.

Its not about finding players better than the front 6. It's about not being afraid to sign players who could become better than them.

Signing the ox is not exactly going to have any of our lads quaking in their booths. But imagine we signed mahrez for example. Next thing lallana, firmino, gigi and to a degree couthino would all be looking over their shoulder thinking "will he take my spot". So they work harder to be more consistent. This offers depth to the team and competition.

We need 12 players for our front 6 spots.

Firmino
Couthino
Mane
Can
Hendo
Wjin
Origi

They are the only ones we should without a doubt keep. That being said they serially upgrade-able. Even Couthino and Mane.

Marko, Ings, sturridge, grujic are all players we should consider but are all replaceable right now.

Up front we need someone who is a real goal threat. More a 20 goal a season player than a player who creates goals. We also need someone who is good in the air as we rarely get to bully defenders with balls lobbed into the box. Origi should be better than he is at this. We also need someone with tones of pace like Mane as an alternative to Mane. This plate could both rotate with Mane and play on the opposite flank to Mane when we are looking to counter attack sides. That's 3 different qualities we need in our new signings. It doesn't matter if they are filled by one person or 3. For example a player like (but not) arnautovic would offer pace and height.

Harry Palmr

Replacing Grujic! :pac: Seriously, you've hardly seen the lad - he could be anything.

noodler

If you had a Fifa /PES team rating like this: I think its obvious what you go about upgrading first.


84

---

88

---

90

79----80

---

81

73---70--60----69

---

66

---

rob316

A 20 goal striker,
Another winger with pace to compete with Mane.
A tough bastard DM,
Starting LB and a top CB

Those are the priorities. After that I'd like to see a young CM prospect and attacking player. Of the young players we have at the moment, I can definitely see Woodburn and TAA making the grade.

Even with Champions league football I would be very surprised if we could find better players than Firmino, Coutinho or Mane.

NukaCola

rob316 wrote: »

A 20 goal striker,
Another winger with pace to compete with Mane.
A tough bastard DM,
Starting LB and a top CB

Those are the priorities. After that I'd like to see a young CM prospect and attacking player. Of the young players we have at the moment, I can definitely see Woodburn and TAA making the grade.

Even with Champions league football I would be very surprised if we could find better players than Firmino, Coutinho or Mane.

You'd bring in 7 players before a GK?

Harry Palmr

NukaCola wrote: »

You'd bring in 7 players before a GK?

probably working on the theory that a better team in front of Mig would mean Mig's own numbers improve.

NukaCola

Harry Palmr wrote: »

probably working on the theory that a better team in front of Mig would mean Mig's own numbers improve.

I dont think we'll buy a new GK but personally its one of the first positions I'd look at. Put Mig into the Chelsea team and they wouldn't be top of the league IMO.

Knex*

If/when Henderson & Lallana are back, I wonder what our midfield lineup will be like. Seemingly, we will finally have options for our midfield three.

Can is in fantastic form, but he's playing the deeper Henderson role at the moment, and has proven a bit lost when told to play the middle Wijnaldum role, and is a bit wasted/not as effective as other options in the more attacking role that Lallana mainly plays.

Earlier on in the season we created nothing with a midfield of Henderson as the deepest, Can next, and Lallana above, so I'm a little apprehensive now of perhaps ruining that dynamic again. Perhaps Henderson and Can just don't mesh well in our current formation, although I'm not too sure that's the case.

Henderson I believe still has the most passes in the PL, and when on form, can be excellent. Captain of the club, I can't see him being dropped. His ability when we have the opposition penned back, at constantly applying that pressure from deep, with his interceptions, energy and passing range is great.

Lallana is having his best season for us in the attacking midfield role, and really doesn't cut it as part of the front three, so again I think he stays.

It pretty much boils down to Wjinaldum or Can for that box to box midfield slot, and despite Can's recent form, I think Wjinaldum probably has to get the nod. To be fair to Gini, despite two mistakes recently, he's also been one of our better players and has consistently shown the ability and intelligence to play that role perfectly.

Can is a little less cerebral, a bit mad, and in ways, a lot more Gerrard. In recent games he's set our tone, none more so than in the Derby, and he's provided a lot of strength, energy, and protection for that back four. I can't help but wonder if leaving him out will leave us a little lifeless and exposed.

Its a tough one.

Mr.H

Harry Palmr wrote:

Replacing Grujic! Seriously, you've hardly seen the lad - he could be anything.

Yea hardly seen him. He had a full season and for one reason or another hasn't stepped up. It wasn't all injuries and if it was I wouldn't be counting on him as a main stay next season. That's what we did with Ings and we ended up being short as a result.

We need to move injury prone players on or at least not rely on them and just count them as extra players for when they are fit.

I'd be happy with grujic out on loan next season with some of the other young lads like Trent and Ben. Not that grujic is as young

Buford T. Justice XIX

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

We have to get over the small minded concept of a big transfer player being in "our first 11". If we want to truly compete for the PL and be competitive in the CL we need a first 16 at a minimum.

Being afraid to spend proper money on a player who may be ranked 12-16 in the squad at the time of acquisition is a mindset we need to leave behind or else be content with always being a 6th to 3rd type team with the odd purple season where we come close to but don't win the PL and maybe sneak a domestic cup.

No thanks. Look how that's worked out for Arsenal over the last 10 years or so.

Nobody is arguing with the need for a first 16, as you say.

We would prefer that starters who improve the first team/offer an attacking alternative were bought for the £20-30m fees rather than squad players who don't noticeably improve the first 11.

hefferboi

Mr.H wrote: »

See that's where your wrong in your thinking.

Its not about finding players better than the front 6. It's about not being afraid to sign players who could become better than them.

Signing the ox is not exactly going to have any of our lads quaking in their booths. But imagine we signed mahrez for example. Next thing lallana, firmino, gigi and to a degree couthino would all be looking over their shoulder thinking "will he take my spot". So they work harder to be more consistent. This offers depth to the team and competition.

We need 12 players for our front 6 spots.

Firmino
Couthino
Mane
Can
Hendo
Wjin
Origi

They are the only ones we should without a doubt keep. That being said they serially upgrade-able. Even Couthino and Mane.

Marko, Ings, sturridge, grujic are all players we should consider but are all replaceable right now.

Up front we need someone who is a real goal threat. More a 20 goal a season player than a player who creates goals. We also need someone who is good in the air as we rarely get to bully defenders with balls lobbed into the box. Origi should be better than he is at this. We also need someone with tones of pace like Mane as an alternative to Mane. This plate could both rotate with Mane and play on the opposite flank to Mane when we are looking to counter attack sides. That's 3 different qualities we need in our new signings. It doesn't matter if they are filled by one person or 3. For example a player like (but not) arnautovic would offer pace and height.

Sorry but Ox has been as good as Mahrez this season. No way would I be happy spending 35 million on Mahrez

BullBlackNova

hefferboi wrote: »

Sorry but Ox has been as good as Mahrez this season. No way would I be happy spending 35 million on Mahrez

Mahrez's form fell off a cliff this season and hasn't recovered at the same rate as his Leicester teammates after the managerial change.

I'll be interested to see if/where Mahrez moves this summer. Last year, you'd have expected all the top sides to be in for him but I'm not sure as many would be keen this year.

That said, you could also have a manager looking at him and thinking that there could be a potential bargain in there - clearly talented, just seems unhappy at Leicester.

I wouldn't spend 35m on him on the basis of this season and, mainly, because I'd like any attacker we sign to be pacy like Mané. Mahrez isn't slow and he is a very good dribbler, but he wouldn't necessarily turn us from defence to attack in a counter like Mané (or reported targets like Brandt).

Mr.H

rob316 wrote:

Even with Champions league football I would be very surprised if we could find better players than Firmino, Coutinho or Mane.

If we spend the money we will.

They may not be better players yet but Moura and thiago are get-able as their teams are looking to free up space for players like griezman, Sanchez and Rodriguez.

Just because we can't attract players who are already better doesn't mean we should settle for players who never will be.

If the ox becomes better then coutinho for us I will name my next dog after him

Mr.H

NukaCola wrote:

I dont think we'll buy a new GK but personally its one of the first positions I'd look at. Put Mig into the Chelsea team and they wouldn't be top of the league IMO.

You also have to think though that if migs played for Chelsea he wouldn't have to deal with **** defending.

Maybe our keepers would improve with a solid center back a real left back and a ball winning midfielder?

I would sort our outfield problems first as we have many of them. No point in having ter stegen if he keeps getting isolated by our defence.

In fact I'm not sure what keeper we could even attract that would be an upgrade. Maybe the Milan young lad if we give him #1? Other than that we wild be looking at keepers that the fans either never heard of or keepers that play for sides below us. I don't see the fans being encouraged by either

noodler

Knex. wrote: »

I
Can is in fantastic form....



It pretty much boils down to Wjinaldum or Can for that box to box midfield slot, and despite Can's recent form, I think Wjinaldum probably has to get the nod. To be fair to Gini, despite two mistakes recently, he's also been one of our better players and has consistently shown the ability and intelligence to play that role perfectly.

Can is a little less cerebral, a bit mad, and in ways, a lot more Gerrard. In recent games he's set our tone, none more so than in the Derby, and he's provided a lot of strength, energy, and protection for that back four. I can't help but wonder if leaving him out will leave us a little lifeless and exposed.

Its a tough one.

I think you are being very kind to Can. He pretty much had months where he was terrible. Wini has been consistent. Its not even close for me.

I hope he maintains his current form but I can't let it blind me from how he has played for most of the season.

NukaCola

Mr.H wrote: »

You also have to think though that if migs played for Chelsea he wouldn't have to deal with **** defending.

Maybe our keepers would improve with a solid center back a real left back and a ball winning midfielder?

I would sort our outfield problems first as we have many of them. No point in having ter stegen if he keeps getting isolated by our defence.

In fact I'm not sure what keeper we could even attract that would be an upgrade. Maybe the Milan young lad if we give him #1? Other than that we wild be looking at keepers that the fans either never heard of or keepers that play for sides below us. I don't see the fans being encouraged by either

I've seen enough of him to say that he's not a keeper that you can rely on. You can get in those players you mention and you'd be left with a keeper who switches off regularly, poor organisation, spread panic, poor distribution, prone to stupid step over ****e and rarely makes a top class save. He's a symptom of the poor defending and we should get rid.

As for who replace's him, I dont think it would be too hard to improve, I think the key is getting the right long term GK in. We take the cheap option too often, sometimes you have to splash out the cash. Take the 35M we're apparently willing to throw away on an average outfield player and bring in a top class keeper. Surely our scouting team and Klopp could come up with something better than Mig/Karius.

shamrock55

What games are on sky this wkend,i presume we are not on the box?

Agent Coulson

shamrock55 wrote: »

What games are on sky this wkend,i presume we are not on the box?

We are first game on Sky on Sunday
1:30.

citytillidie

shamrock55 wrote: »

What games are on sky this wkend,i presume we are not on the box?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103203459&postcount=14

All the rest of Liverpool's game are on TV only one not confirmed yet is the last game V Middlesbrough

shamrock55

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We are first game on Sky on Sunday
1:30.

Nice one,i didnt realise that

shamrock55

citytillidie wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103203459&postcount=14

All the rest of Liverpool's game are on TV only one not confirmed yet is the last game V Middlesbrough

Cheers,im going to boro game anyway so not fussed about that😊

5starpool

NukaCola wrote: »

I dont think we'll buy a new GK but personally its one of the first positions I'd look at. Put Mig into the Chelsea team and they wouldn't be top of the league IMO.

By the same token I assume you think that if we had Courtois we'd be clear at the top? I think we should upgrade any positions we can do this summer. A new goalie would be a good start, as well as a starting LB and CB, but I don't think we'll get those as well as a couple of other upgrades. We'll probably start the new season (injury permitting) with at most 3 new starters.

Harry Palmr

Are Liverpool the most "seen on Sunday" team in the league? Feels like it.

off the LFC reddit page

Injury Updates: “Lallana and Hendo are better but not good enough for this weekend, they are not fit for West Brom. Adam will be back in training AFTER the Crystal Palace game, but Jordan maybe next week or the week after, sure he will have a few games. Grujic, unfortunately because of his injuries he is not in a real rhythm, He is not quite there yet, but it is good to have him back.

citytillidie

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Are Liverpool the most "seen on Sunday" team in the league? Feels like it.

Liverpool and Man Utd would be the 2 biggest ratings draw for Sky so they would have the most live fixtures on TV

NukaCola

5starpool wrote: »

By the same token I assume you think that if we had Courtois we'd be clear at the top?

:eek: Absolutely not! I originally said that GK is one of the first positions I'd look at after a poster said he'd get in 7 players with no mention of a new GK. Harry said the poster was

Harry Palmr wrote: »

probably working on the theory that a better team in front of Mig would mean Mig's own numbers improve.

I chose Chelsea having better defensive players and setup than ours, to say that if Mig was their number one they wouldn't be doing as well.

My point is if we are going to challenge and win we will need to upgrade our GK, and other positions also, no doubt about it, I just think GK should be looked at urgently and I gave my reasons why a few posts back.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

NukaCola wrote: »

:eek: Absolutely not! I originally said that GK is one of the first positions I'd look at after a poster said he'd get in 7 players with no mention of a new GK. Harry said the poster was



I chose Chelsea having better defensive players and setup than ours, to say that if Mig was their number one they wouldn't be doing as well.

My point is if we are going to challenge and win we will need to upgrade our GK, and other positions also, no doubt about it, I just think GK should be looked at urgently and I gave my reasons why a few posts back.

i'm slowly coming round to the idea of Mignolet being ok as a goalkeeper, it's more the defense in front of him that's unsettling. Mentally as much as anything.

If we had a getter defensive coordinator in there that might even help too - if someone like Mourinho had the same defense to work with, I get the implression they'd be a lot more solid.

ElTel

NukaCola wrote: »

I've seen enough of him to say that he's not a keeper that you can rely on. You can get in those players you mention and you'd be left with a keeper who switches off regularly, poor organisation, spread panic, poor distribution, prone to stupid step over ****e and rarely makes a top class save. He's a symptom of the poor defending and we should get rid.

As for who replace's him, I dont think it would be too hard to improve, I think the key is getting the right long term GK in. We take the cheap option too often, sometimes you have to splash out the cash. Take the 35M we're apparently willing to throw away on an average outfield player and bring in a top class keeper. Surely our scouting team and Klopp could come up with something better than Mig/Karius.

Yeah I agree. I want a tall GK who will come off his line now and again for set pieces as our first priority and a left footed player with pace who can defend is next on my list.

We will concede more goals with our style of play than most of our rivals even if we upgrade our defenders and this leads me to bemoan our counter-attacking ability.

Assuming CL next year and a few of the current first team squad leaving and fringe first team players going on loan I think we need 8-10 new signings. This 300 million war chest won't get us all we need if we're going to sign players to compete with our starting eleven.

5starpool

NukaCola wrote: »

:eek: Absolutely not! I originally said that GK is one of the first positions I'd look at after a poster said he'd get in 7 players with no mention of a new GK. Harry said the poster was

Well if you think Chelsea wouldn't be close to the top of the league I'd they had Mignolet in goal, you probably mean about 15 points less (so from 7 ahead to 8 behind). If he would be that detrimental to them then it stands that Courtois would be that beneficial to us!

Yes, I do like to nitpick.

NukaCola

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

i'm slowly coming round to the idea of Mignolet being ok as a goalkeeper, it's more the defense in front of him that's unsettling. Mentally as much as anything.

If we had a getter defensive coordinator in there that might even help too - if someone like Mourinho had the same defense to work with, I get the implression they'd be a lot more solid.

Mig's stock is high, but we've seen it like this before.....he'll ultimately break your heart.....

I think with a better defensive set up and personnel we'll be less likely to concede of course, and maybe that might make up for Migs inadequacies, but I'd rather a GK we could rely on, Migs been doing well tbf, I just think we should look to upgrade.

NukaCola

5starpool wrote: »

Well if you think Chelsea wouldn't be close to the top of the league I'd they had Mignolet in goal, you probably mean about 15 points less (so from 7 ahead to 8 behind). If he would be that detrimental to them then it stands that Courtois would be that beneficial to us!

Yes, I do like to nitpick.

:pac: Oh, so if there was a complete reversal? Like we start Courtois and Chelsea start Mig? Thats an interesting discussion actually....they'd probably drop him for Begovic after a while! :pac:

Gbear

Cahill, Luiz and Azpilicueta are not a world class back 3. Even with Kante you can't say Chelseas solidity is down to personnel.

They're far more compact and play much deeper.

We're defending the whole pitch. They're defending half of it.

Chelseas defenders are arguably only the 4th best in the league and not significantly better as a unit than ours or City's. That's where Conte has earned his corn

hefferboi

A world class defensive midfielder is more important than a world class keeper, imo. If we had a fully fit Kante for the whole of this season I think we'd be either top now or a point or two off it.