Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

Harry Palmr

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

We have a slim chance of top 4 and that's it. The season is in the balance game by game now. I'd say I hope Klopp figures it out for next weekend, but I don't hope that anymore, because I've said the same thing after nearly every game since December now. I want him to change, but I don't expect anything different.

NukaCola wrote: »

1 point off 4th at the moment. 4 off 2nd. More than a slim chance i would say.

This is the thing, form matters. It cannot be switched on easily or sustained by magic as we've seen. As of now we should be considered the outsiders but in a couple of weeks that might not be the case - it could be the busy schedule that Man Utd have allied with harder games from here on will help but ultimately Liverpool/Klopp are going to have to work harder at every aspect of their game and make the most of a thin squad.

S. Goodspeed

shamrock55 wrote: »

We dont deserve top 4 and we wont get it it,infact i think we will finish 7th with everton finishing above us,now if this happens and its looking very possible then klopp has to go,no ifs buts or maybees

I really hope you aren't for real here...

We can keep changing managers all you like but at some stage we have to realise that the manager isn't the problem

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

1 point off 4th at the moment. 4 off 2nd. More than a slim chance i would say.

Not the way we're playing. Momentum is vital in football and ours is in a downward direction.

On Joe Allen...I'd prefer to have him in the team to Emre Can atm. Can has regressed so much since last year it's unbelievable.

Pepp1989

Matip was extremely advanced at times this evening. That and our lack of movement. What has happened to the quick passing and movement. We are so predictable since January. How hard is it to move. Should be the basic level of expectation. Put in a shift

Francie Barrett

Lads, can we let the Joe Allen thing go now?

charolais0153

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Eh? Twice the win rate? Unfair?!

Anyway, the bench again illustrates just how thin the squad is once a couple of knocks/viruses crop up.

Over such a long period , it represents nothing of his actual contribution lately to the team

NukaCola

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

I really hope you aren't for real here...

We can keep changing managers all you like but at some stage we have to realise that the manager isn't the problem

The same guy called posters a disgrace for wanting Kenny replaced when we were finishing 8th with 50 odd points.

Gbear

shamrock55 wrote: »

Whats so great about klopp though,he won a couple of leagues in germany,but thats it,god forbid his teams get to a cup final cos they aint winning it,heis a one trick pony with no plan b and zero tactical awarness,he canr or hasnt sorted a rubbish defence in 15mths,is it because hes great craic cos he is a good laugh alright ill give him that

We've seen what's good about him.

Out of all the teams in the top 6 - those teams that cost 2 or 3 times more to assemble than ours, and mature sides in Spurs and Arsenal, and all of them managed by well respected managers, many of whom have won multiple leagues, european cups, we're the best team from all of them in head to head.

What kind of manager can turn out against Spurs, City, Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea in 8 games and remain unbeaten, winning 5 of them? And I'd back us to beat at least one of City and Arsenal and draw against the other as well.

That's not normal form. It's outrageous. And it's not just a statistical anomaly this year - it was the same last season.

If a manager can consistently beat teams better than him, then there's something about him.

The issue with weaker teams is one of firepower.
Again, we've shown that we can have enough for these games. We just can't do it consistently enough.

For all the moaning, which I've been party to, we haven't shown that we even need more quality in the first 11 to get top 4 kind of ball park, or even a decent title challenge. We just need to be able to bring the level of quality we do have more consistently.

We could get 3 more players on a par with Matip, Mane and Firmino and that might well be enough.
We can do that without breaking the bank and without needing to sign a megstar.

It'll still not be enough to consistently challenge for the title but I think throughout Europe it's being shown pretty clearly that there's no way for poorer clubs to get around that, with Ateltico now seeming to fade again, nobody able to seriously challenge Juventus, PSG and Bayern dominating with only infrequent challenges against them and the average positions of clubs in the PL adhering quite strictly to the amount spent.

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Not the way we're playing. Momentum is vital in football and ours is in a downward direction.

We are outsiders no doubt but still in with a good shout IMO. We cant continue this form of course but I dont expect us to. As I said, I'll remain positive.

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

We are outsiders no doubt but still in with a good shout IMO. We cant continue this form of course but I dont expect us to. As I said, I'll remain positive.

That's fair enough. I'm just a gloomy ****er anyway

Harry Palmr

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Lads, can we let the Joe Allen thing go now?

Just another in a long line of player who are never greater than when they are not playing (for us). Stoke got thumped 4-0 last Saturday and he wanted to leave anyway.

Gbear

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just another in a long line of player who are never greater than when they are not playing (for us). Stoke got thumped 4-0 last Saturday and he wanted to leave anyway.

It's about tactics.

Do you have someone who can get on the ball in midfield under pressure and make straightforward passes?

Gini should be able to but it's not Can's game.

He's a wrecking ball. A galloping Rhino through the center of the pitch who excels on the break and generally when the game gets a bit looser.

If you don't have that, then you're just punting the ball up the pitch to isolated forwards. Unless they're immaculate (which they bloody weren't) you don't have anything on the ball.

mada999

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Carra asking why we don't say to teams
'' here you have the ball, lets see what you can do '' Sit deep and then use our pace like Mane and Firmino.

it's true other teams are doing it to us... like a self fulfilling prophecy

shamrock55

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

I really hope you aren't for real here...

We can keep changing managers all you like but at some stage we have to realise that the manager isn't the problem

Its down to the manager to put the right team on the pitch and to have them playing the way he wants,this hasnt happened for a long time,its down to the manager to sort out a defence that has been nothing short of septic for 15 mnths,this still is knowhere near being sorted,who do you blame fsg i suppose

Alonso77

Augeo wrote: »

Coutinho missed most of December I think and we were more than OK.

I'm sick of saying it, you cannot play 5/6 players out of position in the PL, they're aren't even utility type players to be fair.

Yep we did well in Dec but the level of performances were not as intense and destructive as some of earlier games and spurs was a nice return to that style.

Unfortunately I just don't feel that this squad has the tools to consistently do what klopp wants them to and I think his comment tonight about everyone (including his performances) playing for futures is very telling.

Could (and should) be a bit of a cull of players in summer if we continue to fall away.

citytillidie

Hopefully that is the end of Lucas as a cb

rob316

3 Windows klopp has had and if the players aren't good enough why have we only bought in one window. Why does klopp give a **** about how much x player costs if that line we are been peddled is true?

FSG is a major problem still. all we have done is sell our best players under them for colossal fees.

Klopp has some huge glaring weaknesses in his in game management. too slow to change tactics or players.
The Sakho situation is mad considering we have a bang average dm playing cb.
Milner is knackered from playing a position he has never played.
mignolet is the worst Liverpool keeper I've seen since sander wvesterveld. the backup isn't any better.

finishing outside the top 4 is unacceptable this season and id question should klopp be kept if he does.

jcsoulinger

daithijjj wrote: »

Agree to disagree then?. I am really not that bothered about the point JC.

Why do we think Allen got replaced by Wijnaldum then?. What does he bring to the party that Allen didnt?

Coolio, Not to bothered either tbh.

Wiji probably stronger offensively, Allen may have looked for assurances he would play Klopp couldn't give them to him. It's a pity he didn't stay. He's better than Can imo

niallo27

rob316 wrote: »

3 Windows klopp has had and if the players aren't good enough why have we only bought in one window. Why does klopp give a **** about how much x player costs if that line we are been peddled is true?

FSG is a major problem still. all we have done is sell our best players under them for colossal fees.

Klopp has some huge glaring weaknesses in his in game management. too slow to change tactics or players.
The Sakho situation is mad considering we have a bang average dm playing cb.
Milner is knackered from playing a position he has never played.
mignolet is the worst Liverpool keeper I've seen since sander wvesterveld. the backup isn't any better.

finishing outside the top 4 is unacceptable this season and id question should klopp be kept if he does.

Why is finishing outside the top 4 unacceptable for a team who rarely finishes in the top 4. We all knew it would be a stretch to qualify.

Bowlardo

it is a threadbare squad. we only have a game a week so there should be no reason for below par performances. We will probably beat arsenal next week and lose to some average team away the following week.
IF we don't get 4th we are ****ed.
he is there 3 transfer windows and Klopp has not sorted the back line yet.
We are one of the richest clubs in the world and we have a make shift LB and CB playing. Can is poor and should be sold in the summer. We need 4/5 40 million players in the summer but we have to get 4th to get them.
I would spend 60 million for betrand and van dijk that is the back line sorted.
We need a goal machine too firmino doesn't cut it, sturridge is banjaxed, origi is too light. Buy quality keeper not sure who though.
Klopp is lacking something but not quite sure what it is ....great man manager and motivator but tactics are none existent...we can't get anyone better but he better start spending money soon

mada999

I think we are too weak phyiscally to win the league. A team that wins the league (more often than not) has a bit of steel in their team. I think we need 2 bigger Center backs (who will score a few headers when we are attacking corners) and another big lad in Midfield. I dont think any our current CBs are strong or agressive enough..

Henderson is not bad in midfield but is unreliable as he's been injured too much.

We also have too thin of a squad, other teams seem to get a way without lots of significant injuries but we seem to always have a lot of injuries during the season..

Our full backs are also not doing enough creatively imo...

but tonights win was down to hunger and agression.... we were not up for it at all and quite frankly bottled it.... they were first to every ball on the ground and in the air.. i lost count of how many times Okazizi and Mahrez won headers in midfield... crazy stuff...

plus playing a high line with Vardy there was suicidal... especially with Lucas back there

Robson99

niallo27 wrote: »

Why is finishing outside the top 4 unacceptable for a team who rarely finishes in the top 4. We all knew it would be a stretch to qualify.

Ye all thought ye would win the league at xmas

Demosthenese

We've hit rock bottom alright ... people wanting a change in Manager. Sweet jesus.

I'm very disappointed in that tonight, not because we lost but because it was always on the cards. As a unit the team just didn't function and it was as if we were put off out stride cos they were "up for it" ... failed to match fire with fire - Vardy jumping around like a jack in the box and nobody prepared to stand up to it. Where was the bottle? the desire.

Very strange performance. I fully expected them to come at us in the first 20 mins. We got rattled and then had no answers. We are not capable of going back to back with performances. We were excellent 1 game ago v Spurs then become a hideous mess.

Lallana/Mane/Coutinho/Firminio all totally off the boil. Huge worry. Regardless of the way we leave ourselves open at the back. We look bereft of ideas in the final third. We get into some great positions in the final third but then try to pass it to death. Leicester got into that position a few times and got 1 Vardy header ... goal.

It's gona be like that for the season it seems. Until we show we can be as durable as they next - teams will sit deep and frustrate, knock it long bypassing our press - and win comfortably at times.

It's times like this you really find out about your team.

BorneTobyWilde

Maybe it's time to let go of the dream and just sell the club to some rich guy who will happily spend 200 million to bring Messi to club.
I think we all need to accept that the day is coming where we will be just like every other big club in Europe. I know the majority don't want that, we want to win as a unit, not as a team of assembled superstars bought by a rich guy with endless pockets.

NukaCola

Robson99 wrote: »

Ye all thought ye would win the league at xmas

Quote the posts of us all saying we'd win the league or quiet down......

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M31wwi4ykKI

Pyjamarama

Awful stuff but at the end of the day it's a flawed squad. We saw earlier in the season what a klopp team fully firing can do. Even against a parked bus. We hit on 3 out 4 first team players last summer. Do it again next summer and we'll be a much improved outfit.

Not giving up on top 4 tho. I think we'll turn it around. Patience is needed tho. We don't have the money of United Chelsea or city to not be patient.

NukaCola

niallo27 wrote: »

Why is finishing outside the top 4 unacceptable for a team who rarely finishes in the top 4. We all knew it would be a stretch to qualify.

I wouldn't say its unacceptable but a few of the excuses are out of the way from last year ie no europe, full preseason, summer transfer window etc I think some of the criticism is a bit over the top but Klopp has made mistakes, any balanced poster are aware of them. You'd expect a challenge for top 4 and thats what we are getting but that should be par.

noodler

niallo27 wrote: »

Why is finishing outside the top 4 unacceptable for a team who rarely finishes in the top 4. We all knew it would be a stretch to qualify.

It for **** sake, this stupid bull**** again

Why bother getting up in the morning eh? Why set goals?

How about being top in Nov? Should fourth have been a pipe dream then? Was it unrealistic?

To go from there to where we are now is failure. We can't use history to sugar-coated it.

NukaCola

Bowlardo wrote: »

IF we don't get 4th we are ****ed.

Why?

BorneTobyWilde

Klopp giving an honest account of how things are.

noodler

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Not giving up on top 4 tho. I think we'll turn it around. Patience is needed tho. We don't have the money of United Chelsea or city to not be patient.

Far more importantly then the money excuse, we don't have any stomach for a fight or a y kind of overall resilience. We are tactically inept to boot.

niallo27

noodler wrote: »

It for **** sake, this stupid bull**** again

Why bother getting up in the morning eh? Why set goals?

How about being top in Nov? Should fourth have been a pipe dream then? Was it unrealistic?

To go from there to where we are now is failure. We can't use history to sugar-coated it.

There is a difference between setting goals and something being unacceptable. I never said it was a pipe dream but expecting to be in the top 4 instead of two of the following city utd spurs and Arsenal and to fail to be unacceptable is not realistic. Liverpool are not a top club anymore, it's a long way back.

noodler

niallo27 wrote: »

There is a difference between setting goals and something being unacceptable. I never said it was a pipe dream but expecting to be in the top 4 instead of two of the following city utd spurs and Arsenal and to fail to be unacceptable is not realistic. Liverpool are not a top club anymore, it's a long way back.

No, you are making excuses.

You can't disregard where we were before Xmas and imply that a run as disastrous as this was someone inevitable.

noodler

Put my head in the utd thread just there.

Jesus.

The threads really aren't comparable, every second post in there is a gloat of some description.

That scale is absolutely not present here when they lose.

citytillidie

noodler wrote: »

Put my head in the utd thread just there.

Jesus.

The threads really aren't comparable, every second post in there is a gloat of some description.

That scale is absolutely not present here when they lose.

Even when a player who has just won a cup who tweets to another club you know there is insecuties deep routed in the fabric of said club

BorneTobyWilde

We need a Roy Keane, an absolute warrior and winner.
We'll win nothing with the bunch of sissies who are promoting hair products and moisturiser in their spare time.

nullzero

citytillidie wrote: »

Even when a player who has just won a cup who tweets to another club you know there is insecuties deep routed in the fabric of said club

Hang on lads, there's plenty going back and forth all this moral high ground stuff is Daft. Go read the efl cup final thread and you'll see endless insecurity on display from Liverpool fans.
All football fans are capable of being ott with slagging but the gloating in the United thread is directly proportional to the bitterness displayed by Liverpool fans yesterday.
Nobody is holier than thou particularly when it comes to United and Liverpool fans having a go at each other.

Osmosis Jones

He started it.

Grayditch

After starting and deleting the text of about 5 different posts I'm just gonna go with:


Yeeeaaahhh. Ok.

mormank

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Dis Lucas win a challenge with Vardy all evening? Surely leaving him isolated with space in behind against one of the fastest strikers in the league is just madness. Even Vardy alluded to this in his post match interview.

You know, if Klopp had started Moreno LB and Can CB with Milner in MF we would have all thought it was a crazy lineup but when you think about it with their pace Can and Moreno probably would have dealt with Leicester's ain strength alot better....pace! It seems so obvious now and as much as I love Klopp it seems to me he should have seen this threat and altered his lineup accordingly.

J Mysterio

I just watched the highlights again and shambolic is not the word.

The worst part was - as has been pointed out - you knew we were absolutely screwed from minutes in, and there was no reaction.

I don't want to be Mr. Alan here but the illusion is fading for me and i'm not happy at all.

- Should have bought in January(!)
- Should not be playing Lucas in CB.
- Milner at LB was a brilliant interim decision but why is he still there? Every week!
- Should consider a plan B/ actual different tactics e.g counter attack (Liverpool classic)
- Should be able to change tactics in a match to win - no evidence of this
- Should give youth a chance (Gomez, Woodburn)
- Should not have exiled Sakho (was he trying to position as captain and got on Klopps nerves?)
- Should not have sold Allen
- Should have kept Flanagan around to compete with Clyne (his form has dropped badly)
- Should drop players when not in form

The main failing I think is Klopp is loathe to create competition in the squad. He wants to create a perfect XI who all like him, and then just play them every week.

I don't think he wants a big squad with two players to every position, as it doesnt suit his management style - as you can't hug everyone when they are pissed off and hating you for being left out. He wants that family atmosphere where he is Papa Klopp.

Sir Gallagher

We cant even afford to drop players, look at the state of the bench. Competition for 1st team spots is basically non existent.

J Mysterio

Obviously I want Klopp to hang around but he needs to pull his feckin boots up big time. I'm trying to illustrate some of the problems Insee that need to be tackled.

~Rebel~

mormank wrote: »

You know, if Klopp had started Moreno LB and Can CB with Milner in MF we would have all thought it was a crazy lineup but when you think about it with their pace Can and Moreno probably would have dealt with Leicester's ain strength alot better....pace! It seems so obvious now and as much as I love Klopp it seems to me he should have seen this threat and altered his lineup accordingly.

The issue at LB wasn't even just pace though, and moreso the player literally just not being there. Has Moreno played, he'd likely have been 30 yards up the field when the damage was done. There was a chasm between the midfield and the 2 CB's when it counted. They were just lost. Having Lucas in there was suicide though. This was always going to happen.

I'm no tactical genius but even i bloody picked up on it.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Woud have Gomez starting in his place so. All Leicester have to trouble us is pace - but in Vardy, Musa, NDidi, Gray and even Mahrez they have plenty far faster than our other CB options. Would leave Lucas and Klavan in the dust.

We know how this game will go - we'll push forward, and leave space behind for a long ball into the channels. Only Matip and Gomez have the pace to cover a quick break.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Even though we're going to have all of the ball, I want us to keep 3 men in our half at all times, rather than just the usual 2 CB's. Really worried about their pace.

I really hope Sakho behaved awfully behind the scenes, as anything else looks just terrible for us now.

klose

Yikes, just aswell I'm on lates this week and didn't see the game. Hardly a surprising result though at the end of it which is just a shocking thing to say.
I'm not sure I understand klopps thoughts on the squad I mean Lucas was half way out the door with klopp oking the deal Lucas stays and now he's 3rd choice centre half and has probably started as many games as anyone since January? you only had to look at the bench tonight and it really brings home how much of a disaster January was not bringing in players. I get the feeling klopp dosnt want to be juggling a big squad of senior players and would rather supplement the squad with youth instead of other senior players.
It's turning out to be as dissapointing season in years, we looked the real deal up to the end of December and that hectic January seems to have ruined the squad. It seems yet another summer of atleast 4 starting quality players are needed lays ahead, when will it ever end!

Richard Hillman

Klopp is there a year and half now. Are Liverpool closer to looking like they can win a league now than they were a year ago? No would be the answer.

Do they look like they can launch an assault next for the league? Not with the Europa League to hamper them, unless they pull out (Which I believe genuine clubs that want to be title contenders should). Let's be frank, the Europa League is where Liverpool are heading right now.

I generally think close to 3 seasons is enough time. If it ain't working, its time for a new guy.

Liverpool should NEVER be about Champions League places unless they feel they can win it. It's should be about winning the league and that only. That's what differentiates a football club like Liverpool and a business like Arsenal.

BorneTobyWilde

We are one warrior away from a great team. We have many great players but no leader.
We should replace Suarez at some point also, like come on, he left ages ago !

~Rebel~

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Klopp is there a year and half now. Are Liverpool closer to looking like they can win a league now than they were a year ago? No would be the answer.

I would actually definitely answer yes. The issue at present is mostly tactical inflexibility. We do one thing incredibly well, but teams can counter this thing and stop us. So we need to be able to do a second, contrasting thing well, in order to get opportunities to do that first thing more.

We're attempting that second thing, but without the tools for it. I mean, even if you throw in a half decent CF in the air, a Mitrovic for instance, who's just hanging out on the back post against a team with 8 or 9 men in the box. That guy will get a lot of chances if they're defending that deep, so they'll either push out a bit, or double mark him - that then opens that little bit of extra space to thread balls on the ground through, and also encourages a team to not defend so deep.

I mean, look at United, that's basically what's happened with Ibra. You always have that option, where a good delivery gives you a good chance of either a goal, or a knock down. Obviously he adds more than that too, but that's the relevant part of this discussion. Take him out of that team and have another Rashford type, and it would be much easier to stop. But when you offer the threat of nippy runs, AND an aerial presence, it means defending teams will suffer regardless whether they defend high, or deep. Same goes for Costa at Chelsea and Giroud at Arsenal.

One could definitely point to the loss of Benteke as a problem. He himself was too valuable to use as this backup option, but not replacing him with a similar option has proven costly. Origi has the frame to maybe do it, but he's not there yet, and it's just not his natural game.

So, again, I would say yes, we look closer overall that we did a year ago. We have very clear attributes, and very clear deficiencies, so the next step is fortifying the former, by resolving the latter.

Zak Flaps

Sh1t result last night. we're a struggling team. But at least "the brain" is doing an amazing job!



Those who were raving about "the brain" when Klopp joined....you were absolutely right. He is incredible.

The Brain!