Another (stopped) headset question

Luxman

So I had some creaking noises emanating from my headset last week and today decided I would try and learn something about them. Took it apart carefully and it was clear it needed some TLC. I managed to clean it all fairly well and re-grease it and put it back together but can't help feeling the bearings could have been replaced. Its a Felt Z4 2012 vintage and the techie info from the website is below

FSA NO.42 1.125" - 1.5" integrated, w/ aluminum 15mm cone spacer, 2 x 10mm PC headset spacer, 1 x 5mm PC headset spacer, Felt compression device & 7075 anodized aluminum bolt

However maybe just the bearings need changing. The bottom bearings is what I would call integrated and the top is the old school 'cage with bearings you can see'. I wouldn't mind replacing the whole headset either so questions are

- which bearings should I get?
- what full headset would be a suitable replacement?

Many thanks in advance, to help me on my learning curve.

clog

You can buy the bearings separately, i'm unsure of the prices. or you could buy a complete headset such as this for €30.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/ritchey-comp-drop-in-headset/rp-prod112212

Make sure that whatever you get that it is for a tapered steerer (1, 1/8" to 1, 1/2).

Luxman

Thanks Clog, am I right in assuming that the swap to a semi integrated bearing setup for the top brace is okay, nothing unusual with the swap?

clog

The 'integrated' part refers to the way the headset fits in the frame. I think you are confusing that term with sealed/caged bearings.

The Ritchey one I linked to is intregated but has semi cartridge bearings, these should literally drop into the frame. You could spend a bit more for fully sealed bearings and you can also spend much more for ceramic bearings.

Headsets and bottom brackets though can be problematic as there are so many standards.

route66

Luxman wrote: »

So I had some creaking noises emanating from my headset last week and today decided I would try and learn something about them. Took it apart carefully and it was clear it needed some TLC. I managed to clean it all fairly well and re-grease it and put it back together but can't help feeling the bearings could have been replaced. Its a Felt Z4 2012 vintage and the techie info from the website is below

FSA NO.42 1.125" - 1.5" integrated, w/ aluminum 15mm cone spacer, 2 x 10mm PC headset spacer, 1 x 5mm PC headset spacer, Felt compression device & 7075 anodized aluminum bolt

However maybe just the bearings need changing. The bottom bearings is what I would call integrated and the top is the old school 'cage with bearings you can see'. I wouldn't mind replacing the whole headset either so questions are

- which bearings should I get?
- what full headset would be a suitable replacement?

Many thanks in advance, to help me on my learning curve.

I have a 2013 Z6. I think the 2013 frame is different but the headset spec looks identical.

I replaced my heasset with a "FSA Orbit C-40-ACB 1.5 Headset (No.42-ACB)". Not cheap - I got mine in Chainreaction:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/fsa-orbit-c-40-acb-1-5-headset-no-42-acb-/rp-prod84328

magicbastarder

apparently that is a 'hot product (121 people looking at this)'. are headsets popping all over the place at the moment?

Alek

I had to replace my FSA Orbit C-42 1.5 lower bearing within 8 months on Kinesis Pro 6 frameset... and the new one is starting to seize after a year. A piece of crap.

Would this Ritchey Comp from the link above fit any integrated 1.1/8 to 1.5 frame/fork? How about the bearing angles...?

route66

Alek wrote: »

I had to replace my FSA Orbit C-42 1.5 lower bearing within 8 months on Kinesis Pro 6 frameset... and the new one is starting to seize after a year. A piece of crap.

Would this Ritchey Comp from the link above fit any integrated 1.1/8 to 1.5 frame/fork? How about the bearing angles...?

It wouldn't - it certainly wouldn't fit my bike.

The whole area of headset standards is a mess - and it diesn't need to be. You have Campy and Cane creek standards. My bike's bearings uses one of each. 'Nuff said really ...

I originally ordered up a replacement headset from Wiggle - where I bough the bike - and it looks like they are confused too. They sent me the wrong ones, same spec as the Richley ones above. This meant the steerer - all carbon on my Z6 - was not seated properly on the bearing because the angle was 45 rather than 36. This dramatically reduces the contact surface area and would have cut a groove in the carbon if I'd left it there.

In the end, I took matters into my own hands. I took both top and bottom bearings out and took the following measurements from each:
Outer diameter
Inner diameter
Height
Inner angle
Outer angle

I used my Aldi Digital Caliper to measure everything except the angles. For these, I crudely set the bearing square against an edge of a paper sheet, put a ruler on the angle and then drew a line, measuring this with a protractor (borrowed from my son's pencil case)

Equipped with this, I then went searching with proper measurements and found the one I linked to above.

Luxman

So a headset costing almost 70 Euro is crap, this would suggest others costing half the price must be pure s****e!! What to do, what to do....

I found this in cycle superstore and as I would be out that direction during the week I thought it might work. Not the exact same as linked. Would it suit? I noted a 36 degree number stamped on the original this morning and this would seem to fit, and is tapered.

https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=97233

Alek

I have a 15 euro non-integrated BBB headset on the other bike and it survived 15000km so far....

Luxman

Alek wrote: »

I have a 15 euro non-integrated BBB headset on the other bike and it survived 15000km so far....

Alek, whats the specific model number on the BBB?
Thanks

route66

Luxman wrote: »

So a headset costing almost 70 Euro is crap, this would suggest others costing half the price must be pure s****e!! What to do, what to do....

I found this in cycle superstore and as I would be out that direction during the week I thought it might work. Not the exact same as linked. Would it suit? I noted a 36 degree number stamped on the original this morning and this would seem to fit, and is tapered.

https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=97233

The stack height is about double the FSA I linked to.

I'm not entirely sure the original Felt bearing is FSA, certainly mine had no identifying markings on it which is why I had to measure it. The replacement looked different with proper markings on the OD of the bearing and different - better? - seals.

clog

The BBB headset you linked is semi-integrated. It sits in press-fit cups which sit in the frame. I would think it will not fit your bike.

The Ritchey headset I linked to earlier should fit if you can put the supplied 45 degree crown race onto the steerer tube. However on some tapered forks the race is built into the steerer if that's the case you are stuck with getting a 36 degree bearing. This is the bottom bearing: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/fsa-bearing-th-073e-acb-1-5/rp-prod134153

The top Bearing is a standard 1.125" part and they can be picked up easily. If you are stuck I can send you one for free.

route66

clog wrote: »

<SNIP>

The Ritchey headset I linked to earlier should fit if you can put the supplied 45 degree crown race onto the steerer tube.

<SNIP>

It doesn't!

As I said above, if the OP does this, the carbon steerer will be ruined. You really can't experiment with this stuff if you don't know what you're doing.

clog

If you can replace the crown race it will fit. If you can't then as I said you will need a specific 36 degree bearing.


See below a Felt 1.125-1.5 fork. The silver ring is called a crown race, it is angled to accept the inner bearing edge , in this case you could remove it and fit the one supplied with the Ritchey. The OP's forks may be different though and have a built in race.

If the OP posts a pic then it should be easy to tell.

Alek

Alek, whats the specific model number on the BBB?

I have no idea, it was installed by the LBS that I got the frameset from. Its a different standard though - 1 1/8 non-tapered, non-integrated.

route66

clog wrote: »

If you can replace the crown race it will fit. If you can't then as I said you will need a specific 36 degree bearing.


See below a Felt 1.125-1.5 fork. The silver ring is called a crown race, it is angled to accept the inner bearing edge , in this case you could remove it and fit the one supplied with the Ritchey. The OP's forks may be different though and have a built in race.

If the OP posts a pic then it should be easy to tell.

This is my Felt 2013 Z6 1.125-1.5 fork: no crown race:



The headset spec the OP quoted is the same as mine and he also said his bearing had 36 degrees printed on it (whereas my bearing had nothing). With this in mind, I'd say the 45 degree Ritchey one won't work.

But all this just reinforces my point that it is really too difficult (even my bike supplier didn't get it right) to understand the various headset standards and how they apply to your bike.

When I was looking to replace my headset, I did a lot of research first. The Felt approved replacement headset (link) states that it is "Cane Creek IS-type compatible". The Cane Creek spec uses 36 and 45 degree angles which is correct for the bottom bearing on my bike, but the top bearing uses 45 degree angles on both inner and outer angles which apparently is Campy specification.

Looking at the picture of my fork above, I guess the 36 degree angle offers more surface area than if it were 45 and is therefore more suited to a "crown race-less" setup. Are "Cane Creek spec" bearings ever used with a crown race?

Anyway, I'm rambling.

Over to the OP to show a pic of his fork - I'm guessing it's the same as mine and not the Felt F5 fork linked to.

Luxman

Folks, thanks for the advice, better to be safe than sorry as I am in over my head a bit on this. I haven't taken the headset apart again yet so the only pics I can show are below and are of no use. However I did speak to my LBS this morning and they re-assured me that the FSA headset is the way to go and he will install for me on Wednesday. I really don't want to inflict any damage to the fork or frame in my attempts to save a few coppers. But I think route66's fork is the same as mine from what I recall. After saying all this it sounds like a degree of knowledge and confidence in installing it is needed too even after the right one is found

route66

Luxman wrote: »

Folks, thanks for the advice, better to be safe than sorry as I am in over my head a bit on this. I haven't taken the headset apart again yet so the only pics I can show are below and are of no use. However I did speak to my LBS this morning and they re-assured me that the FSA headset is the way to go and he will install for me on Wednesday. I really don't want to inflict any damage to the fork or frame in my attempts to save a few coppers. But I think route66's fork is the same as mine from what I recall. After saying all this it sounds like a degree of knowledge and confidence in installing it is needed too even after the right one is found

Actually the installation is easy: once you have the correct product (:)) the bearings just drop in with no cups or bearing race to install.

I've installed semi-integrated headset bearings in the past and they are much more difficult.