Alberto Salazar in Doping Scandal

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I was meaning more like EPO. Sure, a few drugs to calm the nerves or steady the hands etc would be ideal for darts players....

Sure, point taken.

Chivito550

Doesn't matter what the sport, you will have people trying to break the rules to gain an advantage. If football players are happy to throw themselves to the floor spectacularly in an attempt to con the ref, what makes people think their morals will suddenly kick in when it comes to PEDs.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

Doesn't matter what the sport, you will have people trying to break the rules to gain an advantage. If football players are happy to throw themselves to the floor spectacularly in an attempt to con the ref, what makes people think their morals will suddenly kick in when it comes to PEDs.

Juts a question here. For say a snooker player do you really think people should be wasting their time and money and resources testing players for what, exactly? Same for darts players....So, if they are taking stuff that is somehow making them "possibly" perform better, so what? Open it up to them all and allow the game to be played.

walshb

BTW, would anyone begrudge an F1 driver taking something to maybe help with his concentration? If it's open to all, of course...

IvoryTower

We have an interest in Athletics and we understand the unfair life changing effect it would have on someone dirty coming 3rd over someone clean for an olympic medal. That's why we discuss it and hope the likes of Salazar get caught. If football fans don't care that their sport is dirty should we really be worried about it or be making comparisons?

walshb

IvoryTower wrote: »

We have an interest in Athletics and we understand the unfair life changing effect it would have on someone dirty coming 3rd over someone clean for an olympic medal. That's why we discuss it and hope the likes of Salazar get caught. If football fans don't care that their sport is dirty should we really be worried about it or be making comparisons?

Hold on a second. Hope the likes of Salazar gets caught? So, in your eyes he's guilty without being shown to be guilty? Is this how the war on drugs should be combated? To slate a person without proving a thing?

IvoryTower

I think he's guilty but they have to prove it obviously, it's not up to me how the war on drugs is combated unfortunately

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

We have an interest in Athletics and we understand the unfair life changing effect it would have on someone dirty coming 3rd over someone clean for an olympic medal. That's why we discuss it and hope the likes of Salazar get caught. If football fans don't care that their sport is dirty should we really be worried about it or be making comparisons?

YES. Because our sport gets dragged through the mud by people who actually do not understand the sport. People who write off athletics as one big juice fest, while never even questioning sports like football and tennis. I have no issue with people saying athletics is dirty, it has earned this rep. But when people say this, yet maintain sports like soccer, rugby etc are clean, then we can't stand by and let this injustice happen.

Remember our sport is competing for youngsters against other sports. It enrages me that some knownothing parents might see athletics as juiced and rugby as "clean" and decide what sport their kids do as a result.

So yes, we should care. Very much so.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Juts a question here. For say a snooker player do you really think people should be wasting their time and money and resources testing players for what, exactly? Same for darts players....So, if they are taking stuff that is somehow making them "possibly" perform better, so what? Open it up to them all and allow the game to be played.

As a snooker fan, I would want cheats to be caught. Same as the fan of darts or any other sport, or of sport in general. What is so odd about that?

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

As a snooker fan, I would want cheats to be caught. Same as the fan of darts or any other sport, or of sport in general. What is so odd about that?

I didn't ask whether you would want a cheat to be caught. I asked should people and authorities be wasting time and money and resources testing people who play a game for maybe something they ingested to "possibly" help them play that game a bit better?

In other words, leave some things alone. Darts and snooker being two "games" that I feel it a waste of time and logic to be testing for PEDs. Let the players play the bloody game.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I didn't ask whether you would want a cheat to be caught. I asked should people and authorities be wasting time and money and resources testing people who play a game for maybe something they ingested to "possibly" help them play that game a bit better?

In other words, leave some things alone. Darts and snooker being two "games" that I feel it a waste of time and logic to be testing for PEDs. Let the players play the bloody game.

Well, it logically follows, doesn't it, that yes, I believe they should invest time and money into ensuring a clean and level playing field as much as possible. Why should it be any different in these cases, even if you don't deem them to be "real" sports?

Anyway, think we're off on a tangent here. Haven't you stated your belief here several times that PEDs should be legalised across the board so all testing is obviously a waste of time, money and resources in that scenario?

IvoryTower

I think we should stick to the Salazar story in this thread, the doping threads always get sidetracked talking about sports

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

YES. Because our sport gets dragged through the mud by people who actually do not understand the sport. People who write off athletics as one big juice fest, while never even questioning sports like football and tennis. I have no issue with people saying athletics is dirty, it has earned this rep. But when people say this, yet maintain sports like soccer, rugby etc are clean, then we can't stand by and let this injustice happen.

Remember our sport is competing for youngsters against other sports. It enrages me that some knownothing parents might see athletics as juiced and rugby as "clean" and decide what sport their kids do as a result.

So yes, we should care. Very much so.

Following on from this, we also compete against these other sports for column inches, TV time etc. When a dirty sport is seen as dirty and other dirty sports are seen as clean, then the pretend clean sports will continue to get more publicity, which has a knock on effect of attracting sponsors to the sports.

So on one hand you have the 8 page pullouts lauding Barcelona who cheated their way past the referee and PSG, while genuine athletic achievements are barely covered at all. This isn't good when you've got Irish athletes looking for sponsorship etc.

ooter

Sorry for going off topic and I won't mention any names and will probably never be proved right or wrong but I reckon a certain top la liga player who is ripped to fxxk is up to his eyeballs in PED's, maybe it'll come out one day.

walshb

ooter wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic and I won't mention any names and will probably never be proved right or wrong but I reckon a certain top la liga player who is ripped to fxxk is up to his eyeballs in PED's, maybe it'll come out one day.

One hopes you aren't basing this off the appearance of a 6 pack...Now that would be clutching.

Hard Worker

Manchester City were fined this week for not keeping proper records of where their players were. Obviously, there's a reason for a hugely wealthy club not keeping proper records.

Chivito550

Hard Worker wrote: »

Manchester City were fined this week for not keeping proper records of where their players were. Obviously, there's a reason for a hugely wealthy club not keeping proper records.

£35,000 fine. That actually is taking the piss.

Frankie Lee

Bournemouth had the same fine for the same offence. Given that they regularly have players topping the distance covered/90 mins stats in the last couple of years, it does raise suspicions.

The number of managers at the top level of the game who doped themselves is noteworthy too.

Joe_ Public

£35k. That'll surely learn them!

I always found it telling that when he was finally done with athletics, where did Ben Johnson end up only in professional football in Italy at a time when there were widespread reports of a doping culture there.

runnerholic

Both Athletics and Cycling have earned their doping reputations. Both sports only have themselves to blame. Fans of both sports feel aggrieved when these sports are castigated by those that do not have the love we have for them. I've followed athletics all my life and truly love it but the sport does not have the attraction it used to have for the "general sports fan". Back in the day a Coe v Ovett or a Lewis v Johnson race used to really capture the imagination of all sports fans and the media would be all over these events. Now very few outside of the hardcore fan would know the 1500 meter Olympic champion or the female 100m Olympic champion. This is because of doping. Imo the advantage gained by a footballer from taking a PED is minimal. The advantage gained by an endurance or strength athlete is massive. Some Athletics and Cycling fans try to tarnish football in an attempt to deflect criticism from their own sports. Take the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of another.

ThisRegard

runnerholic wrote: »

This is because of doping. Imo the advantage gained by a footballer from taking a PED is minimal.

It's only minimal if every other player is doing it too, which may be quite likely.

But otherwise if you think there's minimal advantage you're deluded. Soccer doesn't need any help in being tarnished, it's doing a spectacular job all by itself.

Itziger

runnerholic wrote: »

Both Athletics and Cycling have earned their doping reputations. Both sports only have themselves to blame. Fans of both sports feel aggrieved when these sports are castigated by those that do not have the love we have for them. I've followed athletics all my life and truly love it but the sport does not have the attraction it used to have for the "general sports fan". Back in the day a Coe v Ovett or a Lewis v Johnson race used to really capture the imagination of all sports fans and the media would be all over these events. Now very few outside of the hardcore fan would know the 1500 meter Olympic champion or the female 100m Olympic champion. This is because of doping. Imo the advantage gained by a footballer from taking a PED is minimal. The advantage gained by an endurance or strength athlete is massive. Some Athletics and Cycling fans try to tarnish football in an attempt to deflect criticism from their own sports. Take the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of another.

Have you researched this? Seriously researched it, cos if you haven't then there's a great chance you don't know what you're talking about. Football is a tough old sport, a mixture of explosive and endurance. But what we're really talking about is the advantage in recuperation time and training. Like all sports at the top, the difference between coming first and coming second is absolutely tiny. Over a season the tiny advantage is multiplied many times. Anyone who thinks football and rugby (not to mention our amateur games) are not rife with PED use.......... But they haven't failed any tests

runnerholic

Soccer doesn't need any help in being tarnished, it's doing a spectacular job all by itself.[/QUOTE]


I rest my case.

ThisRegard

runnerholic wrote: »

I rest my case.

The Homer Simpson method I see.

ooter

There's a lad playing in the premier league about 18 months now, came from nowhere and his endurance levels are phenomenal, he just runs and runs.
I'd have serious doubts about him also.

El Caballo

I have to agree with runnerholic's main point that was dismissed, the picking out of one line proved the whole point of his/her post. It's time athletics fans faced up to the problems within the sport we love. These threads always end up about soccer and tennis etc. It reminds me of the days on the playground when someone done something wrong and tried to cop out by saying "but Johnny did it too".

ThisRegard

If you take a look back at any of my posts on this topic you'll see I'm the first person to call out whataboutery whenever it's brought up.

My post doesn't prove what you claim it does, it's a reply to a statement made.

El Caballo

ThisRegard wrote: »

If you take a look back at any of my posts on this topic you'll see I'm the first person to call out whataboutery whenever it's brought up, my post doesn't prove what you claim it does.

I was talking in general

Halloween Jack

El Caballo wrote: »

I have to agree with runnerholic's main point that was dismissed, the picking out of one line proved the whole point of his/her post. It's time athletics fans faced up to the problems within the sport we love. These threads always end up about soccer and tennis etc. It reminds me of the days on the playground when someone done something wrong and tried to cop out by saying "but Johnny did it too".

In fairness, they found a big haul of roids in Donegal the other day, gyms up and down the country are riddled with steroids for people who do t even compete and just want to look good, given that kind of evidence and the literally constant flow of noxious stories right across the gamut of all all sports, if you aren't highly skeptics af everything you see in top level sport of all codes, I'd have to question your intelligence. I feel for the cycling and athletics fans, having to face up to the home truths while fans of other sports can bury their heads in the sand

walshb

ooter wrote: »

There's a lad playing in the premier league about 18 months now, came from nowhere and his endurance levels are phenomenal, he just runs and runs.
I'd have serious doubts about him also.

Runs and runs! Is that it? Have you anything else that raised your suspicions? Surely he stops every now and again, maybe to take the ball and look up to pass?

Your serious doubts on this thread are someone who's "ripped to fook" and someone who "runs and runs." Truly insightful.