Commercial Property Terms Of Use HELP!

KerryJames

Good morning!
Hope you are having a nice Sunday rest, ready for the week ahead.

I am currently in negotiations for lease of a unit, with an agent who is working on behalf of a client. The negotiations have been going well but we have stumbled on an issue which i have no experience in and i sincerely hope someone may have experience and share it with me.

The business i will establish in the unit, is a Gym. As it stands, the terms of use for the unit do not cover gyms. It covers such businesses as grocery shops and bits and bobs shops.

The client (Landlord) has investigated the change of use that will be needed in order for me to establish there but the agent came back to tell me the landlord is not prepared to make the change as it will cost 10K.

That has my blood bubbling. (Not that he won't do it, the cost of it from his angle)

The agent said to me, his client and himself do not mind me taking on the task of getting the change of use changed, but with no experience in this specific thing, i don't know which would be the appropriate road to take. I am not prepared to pay 10K, not even 5K this is just too high for something so simple, its ridiculous.

I was speaking with a friend and he told me he has a friend who leased a pub and turned it into a funeral home and it cost him nothing for the change of use. He will ask him how he did it but that could take a few weeks before he will be speaking with him.

I do know where i should go (Kerry County Council - Property Department) but that is where my knowledge stops.

I will sincerely appreciate any information with regards to this situation!

Have a lovely day!

Delacent

Chat to the guys who opened a gym in the Deerpark shopping centre about their planning issues.

Absolutely nothing to do with the landlord - except he can apply, but no use getting annoyed with him.

You seem quite inexperienced at this - I'm surprised the "agent" doesn't advise as its fairly elementary stuff in regards to commercial property.

Also it protects you - imagine if the gym did very well and then one of the staff left and opened across the road? You'd be rightly pissed off then - by having use restrictions means that you won't over proliferation of some types of users, thus giving confidence for investment.

KerryJames

Delacent wrote: »

Chat to the guys who opened a gym in the Deerpark shopping centre about their planning issues.

Absolutely nothing to do with the landlord - except he can apply, but no use getting annoyed with him.

You seem quite inexperienced at this - I'm surprised the "agent" doesn't advise as its fairly elementary stuff in regards to commercial property.

Also it protects you - imagine if the gym did very well and then one of the staff left and opened across the road? You'd be rightly pissed off then - by having use restrictions means that you won't over proliferation of some types of users, thus giving confidence for investment.

Okay will do.
I am aware its not his issue, not annoyed at him at all.
I am very inexperienced at this hole commercial property situation. Have had one business before, commercial property law never came into it.

Could you explain to me exactly what it is all about then because i am even more confused with the example you gave of someone opening a gym who was a staff..

KerryJames

Delacent wrote: »

Chat to the guys who opened a gym in the Deerpark shopping centre about their planning issues.

Absolutely nothing to do with the landlord - except he can apply, but no use getting annoyed with him.

You seem quite inexperienced at this - I'm surprised the "agent" doesn't advise as its fairly elementary stuff in regards to commercial property.

Also it protects you - imagine if the gym did very well and then one of the staff left and opened across the road? You'd be rightly pissed off then - by having use restrictions means that you won't over proliferation of some types of users, thus giving confidence for investment.

Jesus... that's my Taekwondo coach for about 10 years who opened there...:eek:

Delacent

KerryJames wrote: »

Could you explain to me exactly what it is all about then because i am even more confused with the example you gave of someone opening a gym who was a staff..

any solicitor or decent estate agent will explain. You can also get plenty of information online

A commercial premises has planning for certain uses, this allows proper control of business use and proper planning. Imagine if an all night takeaway opened within a short distance fo your house? Planning control prevents that.

If the premises you are looking at is in a very residential area you could have restrictions on opening hours such as not before 7am or not after 10pm - a planning officer will look at it and allow people make submissions. They alos would look at what parking is required, level of sanitation and many other issues.

You can view all planning applications on the Kerry CC website and see all the work that goes into it.

KerryJames

Delacent wrote: »

any solicitor or decent estate agent will explain. You can also get plenty of information online

A commercial premises has planning for certain uses, this allows proper control of business use and proper planning. Imagine if an all night takeaway opened within a short distance fo your house? Planning control prevents that.

If the premises you are looking at is in a very residential area you could have restrictions on opening hours such as not before 7am or not after 10pm - a planning officer will look at it and allow people make submissions. They alos would look at what parking is required, level of sanitation and many other issues.

You can view all planning applications on the Kerry CC website and see all the work that goes into it.

In the process of speaking with an engineer and solicitor, hopefully they can advise correctly.

Its a retail complex with a 4500 sq shop to the left, a Gala to the rear and... revenue upstairs. There is parking already available that is free of charge for two hours. (Don't know how much difference that will make.)

I will take a look at the Kerry CC planning applications now.

I do wonder though, we are also opening a smoothy and coffee bar within the Gym. Would this allow us to keep the planning as is now and open the gym in there iswel or will we have to apply for the Gym planning and also keep the shop planning..

pedroeibar1

You need to stop and think. Also the info you give is partial (e.g. will the cafe be open to non-gym users?).

You are investing your money (and possibly that of others) in a project and you clearly have no idea of the critical start-up issues. The estate agent’s job is to offload the property for his client, it is your task to ensure you can achieve what you want to do, so you must sort out your own issues.

You need to write down what you want to achieve and then go to a solicitor. You also need to understand what can be done in the premises (building regs, planning permissions, etc, fire officer, restrictive covenants in the lease, and internal structural changes to premises (Café). FWIW some years ago Kerry Co Co. planners would not meet private individuals (they stopped because of abuse) so a visit to a local architect would be worthwhile – s/he would already have a fair idea of how the Planners would view what you want to do and would have access to them. On some issues KCC will not budge (in my case it was footprint & roofline), on others they are amenable to working with you if you make a good case.

I also would question the viability of a gym in a small Kerry town, unless you had a deal going with the local GAA club and more. Have you done a business plan?

KerryJames

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

You need to stop and think. Also the info you give is partial (e.g. will the cafe be open to non-gym users?).

You are investing your money (and possibly that of others) in a project and you clearly have no idea of the critical start-up issues. The estate agent’s job is to offload the property for his client, it is your task to ensure you can achieve what you want to do, so you must sort out your own issues.

You need to write down what you want to achieve and then go to a solicitor. You also need to understand what can be done in the premises (building regs, planning permissions, etc, fire officer, restrictive covenants in the lease, and internal structural changes to premises (Café). FWIW some years ago Kerry Co Co. planners would not meet private individuals (they stopped because of abuse) so a visit to a local architect would be worthwhile – s/he would already have a fair idea of how the Planners would view what you want to do and would have access to them. On some issues KCC will not budge (in my case it was footprint & roofline), on others they are amenable to working with you if you make a good case.

I also would question the viability of a gym in a small Kerry town, unless you had a deal going with the local GAA club and more. Have you done a business plan?

Of course, i didn't give full detail but yes, it is open to public as well as members.

I have quite a good grasp of start up issues as this is my second company but as my original post mentions, i have no dealings with issues in leasing of commercial property to date and yes it was a shock (One of those hidden costs/issues) hence my out reach for help and info. Both landlord, Agent nor I knew of this being an issue in the beginning and fair dues given to the landlord, they tried their best to sort it out but it wasn't viable for them to do it on their money and thus, have no problem with us dealing with the task to ensure we achieve what we wish.

Business plan is complete up to this point including market research, analysis and most costs with this being the last, unless another hidden cost comes up in dealing with the Kerry CC. I sincerely hope it doesn't but this is business.

That is currently what i am doing now. Meeting with an engineer. He has a good rep so he may be able to work things in favor of us but meet the wishes of Kerry CC. I also have another contact who is a county politician and solicitor so she may have a good contact that will benefit me and the work of the engineer to helps us achieve what we need to.

When i say small town, its not a "small" town for Kerry standards but compared to a city.. it is.

As i said, business plan is complete. We hope to work with local Rugby clubs as well as moving our two local Taekwondo clubs into the facility for training and launching the only Brazilian Jujitsu club in North Kerry.

We are not your standard run of the mill Gym facility. We are providing a unique Gym environment of Functional training - Crossfit while creating a strong, supportive community ambiance between the members and group classes.