Commercial Property Terms Of Use HELP!

KerryJames

Good morning!
Hope you are having a nice Sunday rest, ready for the week ahead.

I am currently in negotiations for lease of a unit, with an agent who is working on behalf of a client. The negotiations have been going well but we have stumbled on an issue which i have no experience in and i sincerely hope someone may have experience and share it with me.

The business i will establish in the unit, is a Gym. As it stands, the terms of use for the unit do not cover gyms. It covers such businesses as grocery shops and bits and bobs shops.

The client (Landlord) has investigated the change of use that will be needed in order for me to establish there but the agent came back to tell me the landlord is not prepared to make the change as it will cost 10K.

That has my blood bubbling. (Not that he won't do it, the cost of it from his angle)

The agent said to me, his client and himself do not mind me taking on the task of getting the change of use changed, but with no experience in this specific thing, i don't know which would be the appropriate road to take. I am not prepared to pay 10K, not even 5K this is just too high for something so simple, its ridiculous.

I was speaking with a friend and he told me he has a friend who leased a pub and turned it into a funeral home and it cost him nothing for the change of use. He will ask him how he did it but that could take a few weeks before he will be speaking with him.

I do know where i should go (Kerry County Council - Property Department) but that is where my knowledge stops.

I will sincerely appreciate any information with regards to this situation!

Have a lovely day!

Mrs OBumble

Who were you thinking would pay for installing the toilets, showers and carparking needed for a business like that?

KerryJames

We are taking care of the installation of the toilets and showers. Car park is included in monthly leasing. The 10K is literally to change the terms to "allow" a gym set up there and not a shop. (The paper work)

nuac

Planning issue. ? Consult a town planner

KerryJames

nuac wrote: »

Planning issue. ? Consult a town planner

Is it a planning issue though. They have not specified that. Just the terms of use don't cover a gym. I'm very confused. Can't find much online.

Samuel T. Cogley

KerryJames wrote: »

Is it a planning issue though. They have not specified that. Just the terms of use don't cover a gym. I'm very confused. Can't find much online.

That's a planning issue.

KerryJames

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's a planning issue.

Could you elaborate more if you have knowledge? I am very inexperienced with this specific issue. Thank you

wobbie10

I am currently doing the same. empty retail unit never used and turning into office. I have spoken to council and architect about it. I need change of use in planning permission, fire cert, disability certs etc.
architect reckons 10 grand all in to complete above.

KerryJames

wobbie10 wrote: »

I am currently doing the same. empty retail unit never used and turning into office. I have spoken to council and architect about it. I need change of use in planning permission, fire cert, disability certs etc.
architect reckons 10 grand all in to complete above.

This is exactly the same as myself. Empty unit, never used.

You named a few things you need a change in. If you have the time, may you list everything that you need to do in order to have it changed? It would be very appreciated.

Samuel T. Cogley

KerryJames wrote: »

Could you elaborate more if you have knowledge? I am very inexperienced with this specific issue. Thank you

As I understand it, but get proper advice - you're opening a business - there will be a list of uses for the building. You wish to use the building for something else, this requires some sort of change of use.

KerryJames

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

As I understand it, but get proper advice - you're opening a business - there will be a list of uses for the building. You wish to use the building for something else, this requires some sort of change of use.

Would an architect, planning authority or solicitor be the best to reach for advise?

Is 10K really a reasonable number? I just can't understand nor validate that number for change of use. This is due to inexperience with commercial lettings mind you.

Samuel T. Cogley

KerryJames wrote: »

Would an architect, planning authority or solicitor be the best to reach for advise?

Is 10K really a reasonable number? I just can't understand nor validate that number for change of use. This is due to inexperience with commercial lettings mind you.

Is there a local chamber of commerce? They will usually have legal advisors you can speak to for a nominal fee. In Dublin there are open days businesses can attend to get legal advice. You might also try FLAC with a nominal donation but they may be unwilling to deal with businesses - I'm not sure there.

Your above approach is entirely reasonable and you should definitely verify it. I hope one of my suggestions helps with that, also try approaching the council directly.

The very best of luck getting it all up and running!

KerryJames

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Is there a local chamber of commerce? They will usually have legal advisors you can speak to for a nominal fee. In Dublin there are open days businesses can attend to get legal advice. You might also try FLAC with a nominal donation but they may be unwilling to deal with businesses - I'm not sure there.

Your above approach is entirely reasonable and you should definitely verify it. I hope one of my suggestions helps with that, also try approaching the council directly.

The very best of luck getting it all up and running!

Yeah, we have Chamber in the next town, i will contact them tomorrow. Not many open days down this way.

Thank you for your advise. I hope so too.

Mr. Incognito

Speak to a planning consultat and a solicitor. A simple consultation could save you thousands

CIARAN_BOYLE

Some advice. Consult with an expert about whether there are other units nearby that would suit you that don't need change of use.

Otherwise just think if it's this much hassle for you do at least it's unlikely someone else will go to the trouble of doing a change of use once you are up and running.

nuac

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Is there a local chamber of commerce? They will usually have legal advisors you can speak to for a nominal fee. In Dublin there are open days businesses can attend to get legal advice. You might also try FLAC with a nominal donation but they may be unwilling to deal with businesses - I'm not sure there.

Your above approach is entirely reasonable and you should definitely verify it. I hope one of my suggestions helps with that, also try approaching the council directly.

The very best of luck getting it all up and running!

I have been an officer of a Chamber of Commerce, and have been involved with other Chambers over the years.

While such bodies may refer enquirers to appropriate professionals that is as far as it would go afaik.

I would be surprised if any of them are providing legal advice for a nominal fee on any topic.

This is a planning issue. The enquirer should employ the appropriate professional with planning experience to examine the plannning permission and supporting documents, the Town or City Plan (especially zoning ) and apply for all all necessary consents.

Compliance with the Fire Officers requirements will also arise

I am assuming that apart from planning there is nothing on title to prohibit or limit the proposed use.

KerryJames

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Speak to a planning consultat and a solicitor. A simple consultation could save you thousands

My father is good friends with an engineer who i will speak with tomorrow. I also have another contact who is a county politician as well as solicitor. I think your advice would be the most appropriate at this stage.

KerryJames

nuac wrote: »

I have been an officer of a Chamber of Commerce, and have been involved with other Chambers over the years.

While such bodies may refer enquirers to appropriate professionals that is as far as it would go afaik.

I would be surprised if any of them are providing legal advice for a nominal fee on any topic.

This is a planning issue. The enquirer should employ the appropriate professional with planning experience to examine the plannning permission and supporting documents, the Town or City Plan (especially zoning ) and apply for all all necessary consents.

Compliance with the Fire Officers requirements will also arise

I am assuming that apart from planning there is nothing on title to prohibit or limit the proposed use.

As of now, this is all that needs changing:

Unit is currently group 4(a) - Shop - and needs to be in group 5 - Assembly and Recreation - in order for the unit to comply with planning law to be appropriate for a gym.

As the unit has not been used since built, fire certs are going to have to be applied for. (I knew this before hand).

THE big benefit to this unit is it has never been rated and we will be put on a 18 month to 2 year waiting list. This is a big bonus for us but of course, things like this in business do not come without upsets, such as this situation.

Thank you for your comment. I will avoid the chamber and go directly to an engineer and solicitor for consultations to see what they have to say.

I still can't get to grips with 10 grand being needed for this change from the landlords point of view. Of course this is not the landlords fault but it seems like a high number pulled from the air.

Do you have any knowledge of how a number like this could amount?

KerryJames

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Some advice. Consult with an expert about whether there are other units nearby that would suit you that don't need change of use.

Otherwise just think if it's this much hassle for you do at least it's unlikely someone else will go to the trouble of doing a change of use once you are up and running.

We are in a small town in rural Ireland (5000 ish pop), not a hole pile of choice There is one other unit of appropriate size but this unit in particular seems to have a ginx on businesses as anything that opens there closes or moves away. The unit in wish i want to lease is dead center of town, no rates to pay for 2 years, negotiated rent down 4K for the first 2 years and some other benefits like being a new build, etc.

Sorry went on a tangent there... No, there is not many other units close by except for one mentioned above.

Samuel T. Cogley

nuac wrote: »

I have been an officer of a Chamber of Commerce, and have been involved with other Chambers over the years.

While such bodies may refer enquirers to appropriate professionals that is as far as it would go afaik.

I would be surprised if any of them are providing legal advice for a nominal fee on any topic.

This is a planning issue. The enquirer should employ the appropriate professional with planning experience to examine the plannning permission and supporting documents, the Town or City Plan (especially zoning ) and apply for all all necessary consents.

Compliance with the Fire Officers requirements will also arise

I am assuming that apart from planning there is nothing on title to prohibit or limit the proposed use.

That's fair enough, I've only ever been involved in the open days in Dublin as essentially a go-fer. I can't comment from personal experience outside of this initiative.

Perhaps worth the train journey up next time was is one if you're not in a major rush OP.