Height limits for buildings in Cork City

Pitcairn

namloc1980 wrote: »

If the Council follow their own policy they should only give the go ahead if there is a very high quality public transport system in operation or being implemented and built.

Would be a good reason to push for the Rapid Bus Corridor from Ballincollig to the Docklands, with an eventual extension to Mahon.
It is in our current development plan so it has to happen sooner or later.

mire

namloc1980 wrote: »

This is one of the biggest myths that is constantly perpetuated about public transportation​. Cork actually has a very reasonable density at 3,600 people per square kilometre. Compares very favourably to cities across Europe. And that's before you add in places like Douglas. Also putting up buildings before you put in infrastructure to support it is again a nonsense and the antithesis of good planning. But we don't do very good planning in Ireland so it's no surprise we do things arseways.

That figure you quote is wrong. Cork's density is about one third of that. Unfortunately.

namloc1980

mire wrote: »

That figure you quote is wrong. Cork's density is about one third of that. Unfortunately.

Cork city population is 126,000. City area is 37.2sq km = c.3.6k per square km.

mire

namloc1980 wrote: »

Cork city population is 126,000. City area is 37.2sq km = c.3.6k per square km.

It's much more useful to use the built up area as the unit for measurement when calculating density. Your figures refer to the administrative area.

who_me

the beer revolu wrote: »

And so it starts.

I can't see this going ahead. Irish people, in general, don't seem to like high rise buildings.

I think it could be amazing; a really bold statement at the gateway to the city centre but I'm guessing that I'm in the minority.

I can see a completely watered down version of this getting the go ahead which will, no doubt, be bland and/or awful and not very tall.

Arguably Cork has lead the way (or at least, has dragged its feet the least) when it comes to height, looking at the County Hall decades ago and the Elysian now. Personally I've no problem with height, for me it's all about quality and location.

To me (in the limited, low res shots I've seen) it looks great. But I don't agree at all with the location. Visually, having a 40-floor tower next to 2-4 floor builds just seems off. The same building would be much better along the South Docklands in particular where the typical height will be closer.

I don't really understand how it makes sense to have such a big building with such a tiny footprint, no green areas, no parking presumably, immediately adjacent to one of the busiest city-centre routes.

On the last point, I'm 100% with you. Regardless of my feelings on the location, I find it a bit depressing how the standard approach to every ambitious development seems to be 'lop a few stories off, make it a boxy 6-8 floor mixed development', just like every other proposal. I remember seeing an interesting design for the tiny confined triangular site next to the bus station, which was similarly "blanded" to oblivion.

namloc1980

Pitcairn wrote: »

Would be a good reason to push for the Rapid Bus Corridor from Ballincollig to the Docklands, with an eventual extension to Mahon.
It is in our current development plan so it has to happen sooner or later.

Just because it's in the development plan doesn't mean it'll happen. Without central government funding nothing can happen. The two key pieces of infrastructure required to unlock the docklands are the rapid transit corridor and the Eastern Gateway bridge. Neither project appears on the current government capital spending plan out to 2021. There is a review of that plan due to be published this September but I would be amazed if either project made the cut. Cork will continue to get the crumbs in terms of infrastructure.

who_me

On the more general question of heights, I think the North and South docklands, around County Hall (if I'm not mistaken) and Blackpool were the areas highlighted for taller buildings.

I remember reading about Atlantic Quarter and the Marina Commercial Park developments.. wonder if this one will see the light of day.

namloc1980

Whatever happens the planning process for this is going to be painfully long. Wait until An Taisce get their objections in....years of planning pain ahead.

Water John

Yeah, just one person is holding up the Apple dev in Athenry. The same guy is now objecting to other industrial tech developments.
Apple have a similar dev in Denmark, announced the same time and is now building.

Have no major issue with the new proposed building and it height. If people are afraid of a crick in their neck, don't look up.

MrDerp

Meursault wrote: »

That's a reasonable point you are making there, but what I was talking about is in an Irish context, where you would nearly have to be at breaking point before a large capital investment is made. Take the motorway to limerick, the bypass around macroom, the upgrade of Dunkettle as examples.

If we see large projects like this going ahead, then it becomes a necessity to look at transport. I agree with your point, but proper planning just doesn't happen that way in Ireland unfortunately.

To be fair, this is across the road from the train station, which has two commuter lines which are under developed from a housing perspective. Dunkettle has plans for houses and a train station and P&R can be accommodated. Monard is needed soon. The Tivoli docks area will provide an opportunity for higher density development and parkland, and a rail station can be provided there. The south docklands and Atlantic quarter can provide homes with a short quality bus corridor.

The city/county planning is not joined up. There is rail infrastructure on the ground north of the lee, and we should be extending boundaries and building affordable housing units there. Continuing to build up the Rochestown and Maryborough hill areas, along with Carrigaline, and bemoaning the transport system is nuts when there's two train lines and green belt within 5km on the north side, along with docklands to be developed.

I guess the initial step to unlocking this is the dunkettle interchange, M28 and port move. There's a massive infrastructure deficit though too if you include the North Ring Road and the need for a bridge to unlock the Atlantic quarter

namloc1980

MrDerp wrote: »

To be fair, this is across the road from the train station, which has two commuter lines which are under developed from a housing perspective. Dunkettle has plans for houses and a train station and P&R can be accommodated. Monard is needed soon. The Tivoli docks area will provide an opportunity for higher density development and parkland, and a rail station can be provided there. The south docklands and Atlantic quarter can provide homes with a short quality bus corridor.

The city/county planning is not joined up. There is rail infrastructure on the ground north of the lee, and we should be extending boundaries and building affordable housing units there. Continuing to build up the Rochestown and Maryborough hill areas, along with Carrigaline, and bemoaning the transport system is nuts when there's two train lines and green belt within 5km on the north side, along with docklands to be developed.

I guess the initial step to unlocking this is the dunkettle interchange, M28 and port move. There's a massive infrastructure deficit though too if you include the North Ring Road and the need for a bridge to unlock the Atlantic quarter

Spot on. Moving the port to Ringaskiddy is needed so that the Docklands can be freed up for development. But realistically it'll be 2025 before the M28 and port move are completed at the earliest. And you're talking the 2030s before the NRR and Eastern Gateway bridge see light of day.

whisky_galore

deRanged wrote: »

Those structures are all protected, so whatever they do will have to maintain them and incorporate them. It sounds fantastic though.

LOL.

Developing 'protected' buildings in this place involves gutting or outright demolishing the insides and leaving a façade.

lisasimpson

Exactly residental should focus along the exisiting rail lines esp with office developement occuring in the city centre
one thing that should have been done was moving the bus station over to train station site to help link up the transport options. Big enough site along the quays to do it. Unfortunately that sort of thinking doesnt happen too often

marno21

Delighted to see this plan considering the amount of shoebox sized rubbish being fired up in Dublin.

Cork needs substantial capital investment now as proposed in the submission to the 2040 National Planning Framework. The M20 to Limerick, N22 to Macroom, N25 towards Waterford, M28 (immediate priority), the Dunkettle Interchange, and a heavily upgraded, possibly motorway N71. The North Ring Road (both east and west, I think west is more important as that quadrant of the city has terrible road connections, no direct connection to the N40 and also has the colleges and hospital) is also pivotal and needs to have its planning resumed. A north south and east west public transit corridor is badly needed too, along with looking at a possible runway extension for the airport.

Hopefully we can do this right but this is a massive step in the right direction.

DylanGLC

Irish Examiner

High rise apartment blocks could be on the way as the Government has proposed scrapping height restrictions for city buildings.

They are also getting rid of the mandatory requirement to have car parking spaces in apartment buildings.

They plan to develop communal housing blocks for young professionals, in a similar set up to student accommodation.

Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy will also seek to bring down the cost of building apartments, by reducing the requirement for parking spaces in new builds.

Announcing the proposal, he insisted that people do not need the expense of a car that is “lying idle” in cities where there is sufficient public transport on offer.

Mr Murphy said: "The onus will be on the developer to prove why there should be car-parking places provided in apartment buildings.

“Basically we are going to remove the requirement that there should be any parking spaces at all.

“I have also announced my intention to remove the numerical height when it comes to restrictions for building apartments.

“This is to make sure that we have viable high density developments - particularly in our city centre cores.”

Speaking this morning, Minister Eoghan Murphy said the height restriction on apartment blocks in place in cities around the country “does not make sense” – however he warned there will be no free-for-all for high rise developments, should the restrictions be eased.

Minister Murphy called for more studio and one-bed apartments as well as specialist developments for older people and down-sizers.

He said he is also considering communal living apartment blocks – similar to those used for student accommodation – for young professionals.

“We have to free ourselves from the mindset that everyone will live in a three-bedroom house at every stage of their lives,” he told the conference.

snotboogie

Pretty immediate response from Times Square
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/progress-on-plan-for-40-storey-port-build-planning-for-custom-house-site-project-to-be-sought-early-next-year-460476.html
Not without it's own set of worries of course

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

Pretty immediate response from Times Square
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/progress-on-plan-for-40-storey-port-build-planning-for-custom-house-site-project-to-be-sought-early-next-year-460476.html
Not without it's own set of worries of course

Bring it on I say.

Title of "real capital" may be up for grabs in the next few years

whisky_galore

snotboogie wrote: »

Pretty immediate response from Times Square
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/progress-on-plan-for-40-storey-port-build-planning-for-custom-house-site-project-to-be-sought-early-next-year-460476.html
Not without it's own set of worries of course

Of course, only the very well off will be able to afford apartments in this.

zetalambda

Some renders of the proposed development at the Port of Cork site that i saw on another message board:

Water John

Nice to have your yacht, outside the door.

Fabio

Bring it on.

the beer revolu

I think that would be awesome but there will probably be a stupidly compromised, half arsed version that just doesn't work passed.

I'd also like to keep the Port of Cork sign and the flagpoles.

Meursault

That's a very narrow strip of land on to which they are putting this building. Presumably, they know what they're doing though.

Hopefully it will get the go ahead. There should be no height restrictions down that end of the city, as far as i am concerned. I find it hard to believe they will get approval for a 40 storey building though. After the Events Centre debacle, its very hard to take any of these grandiose ideas seriously.

best of luck to them though. it would be an amazing landmark, if it does come to fruition. That would be the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd highest buildings in the country all in Cork.

snotboogie

Meursault wrote: »

That's a very narrow strip of land on to which they are putting this building. Presumably, they know what they're doing though.

Hopefully it will get the go ahead. There should be no height restrictions down that end of the city, as far as i am concerned. I find it hard to believe they will get approval for a 40 storey building though. After the Events Centre debacle, its very hard to take any of these grandiose ideas seriously.

best of luck to them though. it would be an amazing landmark, if it does come to fruition. That would be the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd highest buildings in the country all in Cork.

Capital Dock in Dublin, which is under construction, will be taller than both  The Elysian and The County Hall. I think Google Docks is slightly taller than the County Hall too

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

Capital Dock in Dublin, which is under construction, will be taller than both  The Elysian and The County Hall. I think Google Docks is slightly taller than the County Hall too

Time for us to build this Docklands a Tower and blow them out of the water

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Capital Dock in Dublin, which is under construction, will be taller than both  The Elysian and The County Hall. I think Google Docks is slightly taller than the County Hall too

Time for us to build this Docklands a Tower and blow them out of the water

Early 2019 would be the best possible start date? Then about 3 years to build it?

D'Agger

Interesting the render doesn't show the additional developments that are in the works atm - the business area being developed by the Idle Hour, or is it common for Renders to put their design into the current environment? Just asking as I'm assuming there'll be more development prior to this being completed*

*If it gets the go ahead.

CHealy

D'Agger wrote: »

Interesting the render doesn't show the additional developments that are in the works atm - the business area being developed by the Idle Hour, or is it common for Renders to put their design into the current environment? Just asking as I'm assuming there'll be more development prior to this being completed*

*If it gets the go ahead.

Those renders were made up in about 20 minutes by some intern, we'll obviously see actual plans once planning is applied for.

These guys have 6 or 7 projects on the go in New York at the moment, don't ask me why they want to come to Cork but if we get a 40 story tower out of it then I dont really care. Id expect once all is done and dusted through planning we'll get a scaled back version of about 25 to 30 floors.

Patrick 1959

Any news on this development.

namloc1980

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

Any news on this development.

Saw something that the planning application will be submitted in early 2018. With the inevitable objections from NIMBYs and the likes of An Taisce it's likely to spend a year in the planning process at least.