Leicester City v Liverpool, SS1, 8pm

mada999

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Stop making stuff up.
I only recognise your username from you sticking the boot in when United aren't doing well. Some neck...

not making anything up... all the utd lads in the office are suddenly following football again... just a home a home truth...

niallo27

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Yup, sack a manager who is currently in 3rd with a game in hand. And a manager who had one cup already, in 3 more competitions and hasn't lost a game (over 2 legs) since October

Then you have Klopp. 18 months in and he's potentially going to end up in a similar position to last year's league finish

Your logic was he is not doing better than previous managers so sack him but why not apply the same logic to other managers.

sReq | uTeK

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly - we seem to be allergic to a simple bit of pragmatism every now and again. I'm not saying we should become a long ball team, but showing that we can do something different every now and again keeps the other team guessing, so we have more room to do what we're good at. But instead, if they set up to stop our one idea, we're incapable/unwilling to take advantage of the weaknesses that leaves open.

Yup even watching Barcelona at the weekend against athletico and they went long plenty to counter a massive press from letti

Flint Fredstone

mada999 wrote: »

not making anything up... all the utd lads in the office are suddenly following football again... just a home a home truth...

Oh your unverifiable office is it? Convenient...

Richard Hillman

Every Geoff Shreeves interview

:Do you agree with my opinion:

Shoves microphone in face

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

If that's the case pep and Jose should be sacked too. You just can't keep sacking managers.

I agree to an extent but I don't think you will feel the same if it's another bad finish to a season. Your form must have you worrying.
Still to soon to say, it's still February. Plenty left to play for however

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

Your logic was he is not doing better than previous managers so sack him but why not apply the same logic to other managers.

But Jose is doing better than LVG. He's got a quicker trophy...potentially better league positing. Playing better football and unbeaten and scoring freely.

City, despite some dodgy performances are potentially in 2nd and close to the quarter finals of the champions league.

Pool are building....but what it is I don't know. Press press press....plan B....no

~Rebel~

mada999 wrote: »

not making anything up... all the utd lads in the office are suddenly following football again... just a home a home truth...

To be fair, I think that speaks more to the childishness of your coworkers than the specific fanbase of any particular team.

To Alcohol

mada999 wrote: »

not making anything up... all the utd lads in the office are suddenly following football again... just a home a home truth...

Maybe they haven't got as big a gob as you and don't spout ****e all the time?

niallo27

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I agree to an extent but I don't think you will feel the same if it's another bad finish to a season. Your form must have you worrying.
Still to soon to say, it's still February. Plenty left to play for however

Of course it's worrying but give him the chance to prove himself. The squad is very light. He is the best by a mile liverpool can hope of getting. We are no where near the likes of city utd Chelsea and Arsenal in terms of resources.

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

Of course it's worrying but give him the chance to prove himself. The squad is very light. He is the best by a mile liverpool can hope of getting. We are no where near the likes of city utd Chelsea and Arsenal in terms of resources.

But if the squad is light why not invest...this obsession he has with the perfect player for the perfect position will be the death of him.

Buy, sell them if you can get better later but buy now and improve even if it's a little.

Wenger did the same and they won nothing for 4 years.

deadybai

Said it all season and don't understand why no one else has . Liverpool need a top striker.

Delighted Liverpool lost being a united fan but that really was pathetic from them .

niallo27

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

But if the squad is light why not invest...this obsession he has with the perfect player for the perfect position will be the death of him.

Buy, sell them if you can get better later but buy now and improve even if it's a little.

Wenger did the same and they won nothing for 4 years.

Yes he has made mistakes but tell me a manager that hasn't. Do you honestly think liverpool should sack him now.

mikeym

Klopp seems lost for words.

MD1990

Ndidi is a big signing for Leicester.

He was a brillant in midfield. MOTM for me.

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes he has made mistakes but tell me a manager that hasn't. Do you honestly think liverpool should sack him now.

Yea it's a massive school boy error. In January you're 5 points off the league. You know Mane is gone for a while, Coutinho is out and needs to get back to form.

INVEST....You have a league winning chance and now when the going gets tough and his insistence on the press has your squad tired and light.

It's terrible terrible management

Even Carragher is perplexed that he just won't change for teams. I mean he KNOWS leicster is a long ball route one direct team and he plays a high line with potentially the quickest centre forward in the league to run into

If I was on the wind up I wouldn't be taking the time to back up my opinion with some decent evidence.

sReq | uTeK

Oh was that a mistake from Shakespeare..I've enjoyed the last few games??????

DARK-KNIGHT

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Thought it was another very clean thread

cleaner than the scoresheet anyways.....:pac:

leicester players should be ashamed of themselves, poor claudio was sold out....

niallo27

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Yea it's a massive school boy error. In January you're 5 points off the league. You know Mane is gone for a while, Coutinho is out and needs to get back to form.

INVEST....You have a league winning chance and now when the going gets tough and his insistence on the press has your squad tired and light.

It's terrible terrible management

Even Carragher is perplexed that he just won't change for teams. I mean he KNOWS leicster is a long ball route one direct team and he plays a high line with potentially the quickest centre forward in the league to run into

Hindsight is great. There was no one to buy in January. No decent players go in Jan. Was there anyone even available. The bit of luck has run out. All the big teams have had their blips let's see how he deals with it.

sReq | uTeK

Very distasteful from Sky, the king is dead long live Claudio.

Shakes saying he enjoyed the last few games. I wonder was he actually installed as manager whole Claudio was working out his package

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

Hindsight is great. There was no one to buy in January. No decent players go in Jan. Was there anyone even available. The bit of luck has run out. All the big teams have had their blips let's see how he deals with it.

Fair enough let's leave it at that.

~Rebel~

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Very distasteful from Sky, the king is dead long live Claudio.

Shakes saying he enjoyed the last few games. I wonder was he actually installed as manager whole Claudio was working out his package

Weird comment to make alright

sReq | uTeK

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Weird comment to make alright

Neville and Carragher didn't like it either, look of scorn towards that pratt

jayo26

niallo27 wrote: »

Hindsight is great. There was no one to buy in January. No decent players go in Jan. Was there anyone even available. The bit of luck has run out. All the big teams have had their blips let's see how he deals with it.

Blip has run the last 8 games he aint dealing with it So far.

I think he is he is going to regret the cup games and not using them to build momentum in the team when they needed wins.

niallo27

jayo26 wrote: »

Blip has run the last 8 games he aint dealing with it So far.

I think he is he is going to regret the cup games and not using them to build momentum in the team when they needed wins.

It was only one FA cup game in fairness.

jayo26

niallo27 wrote: »

It was only one FA cup game in fairness.

It was the two games in the EFL too. Yes he didn't put out a team of kids but he still rested a lot of players that didn't need to be rested.

Ye lost a few games at the start of the year then played 3 cup games ye should of easily won that would of put alot of confidence in the first team players and momentum is on there side going into the league but ye ended up with 2 loss and scraping a win against a league 2 side.

jayo26

Carragher off on a little rant now that will end up in him saying I don't know.

ElTel

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly - we seem to be allergic to a simple bit of pragmatism every now and again. I'm not saying we should become a long ball team, but showing that we can do something different every now and again keeps the other team guessing, so we have more room to do what we're good at. But instead, if they set up to stop our one idea, we're incapable/unwilling to take advantage of the weaknesses that leaves open.

That's part of it for me but the most pragmatic decisions come down to the coach before a ball is kicked. Starting Lucas (instead of Can given our personnel) against Vardy was a fcuk up.

Klopp is compromising his system playing Milner LB which makes it even easier to defend for the bus defence. Yes that means I want Blondie to start... we've talked about it before but we need Moreno's (and Origi) pace.

Tonight Leicester were pretty good and there were a few hints to that in the performance against united. We made it easy for them though.

Going forward.....Comfy win against the gunners and groundhog day against Burnley?

martyos121

jayo26 wrote: »

Carragher off on a little rant now that will end up in him saying I don't know.

Can't stand him as a pundit, absolutely terrible at what he does.

jayo26

martyos121 wrote: »

Can't stand him as a pundit, absolutely terrible at what he does.

He actually just makes no sense whatsoever he is a full time waffler and it's not even because he is liverpo out and out he is entitled to that it just never any persise points.

martyos121

martyos121 wrote: »

Can't stand him as a pundit, absolutely terrible at what he does.

It seems like sometimes he gets caught up in the emotions of a result, especially if Liverpool is involved.
He then ends up ranting without any precise point to make
He's not that bad during a match build up to be fair to him
And he's not as bad as the likes of savage, Owen merson etc

The Talking Bread

ElTel wrote: »

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly - we seem to be allergic to a simple bit of pragmatism every now and again. I'm not saying we should become a long ball team, but showing that we can do something different every now and again keeps the other team guessing, so we have more room to do what we're good at. But instead, if they set up to stop our one idea, we're incapable/unwilling to take advantage of the weaknesses that leaves open.

That's part of it for me but the most pragmatic decisions come down to the coach before a ball is kicked. Starting Lucas (instead of Can given our personnel) against Vardy was a fcuk up.

Klopp is compromising his system playing Milner LB which makes it even easier to defend for the bus defence. Yes that means I want Blondie to start... we've talked about it before but we need Moreno's (and Origi) pace.

Tonight Leicester were pretty good and there were a few hints to that in the performance against united. We made it easy for them though.

Going forward.....Comfy win against the gunners and groundhog day against Burnley?

Wasn't Klopp heralded as a genius when Pool were winning for all these reasons, most notable his choice of Milner at LB?

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

When's the ManU ManCity game been rescheduled for? huge one now.

Sorry only spotting this now, futureguy covered the answer!

The_Kew_Tour

I actually like Carragher. Least he seems to have his own opinion, might not agree with everything, but least he can give his own view.

Liam McPoyle

Klopp has to shoulder much of the blame for the current mess.

Ye made a transfer PROFIT in the summer.

Coupled with the obscene TV money and the overall reach lfc have from a fan base point of view there has to be at least £50 or £60 million just sitting there, at an absolute minimum.

He completely black balled your best defender.

He has played an aging midfielder at centre half.

He is persisting with a midfielder at LB.

Surely there is an academy or u23 player that could slot in and allow Milner to play in his natural position.

All I heard a while ago was how brilliant Klopp was for playing young players yet so far, with a light squad, he hasn't done that other than a couple of cup games.

The ball played early in the season worked because teams couldn't handle it.

Most teams now know perfectly how to counteract it and there is no alternative for ye when the press isn't working.

Even with substitutions of players that are having stinkers, he seems to leave it far too late all of the time.

It's weird because the likes of Firimino was so dynamic early in the season but has been woeful since before Christmas.

Ye need to spend, and spend big in the summer.

The romantic idea that ye don't want or need a "cheque book manager" is just that, a romantic notion.

Baring Leicester last year, every team that has won the PL has had to invest a fair chunk of change and if LFC want to give a sustained title challenge then they will have to do the same.

Rayne Wooney

Shame on Leicester, I think the players coming out in support of Ranieri was just self preservation.

Liverpool are crumbling, everything that was lauded in the first half of the season is now gone to ruin

Not a cheque book manager, doesn't play long ball

Milner playing left back was a masterstroke, Coutinho was the best in the league in November and hasn't been seen since.

The_Kew_Tour

Now I'm not going pretend seeing Liverpool get beat was disappointing, but seeing Vardy score twice was a dent in that.

No time for him now. Hope he never scores again and I include against Liverpool too.

https://twitter.com/BeWarmers/status/836341852353744896

ElTel

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Wasn't Klopp heralded as a genius when Pool were winning for all these reasons, most notable his choice of Milner at LB?

His system was working. As Gbear pointed out earlier when it's found out and your still persist with sguare pegs for round holes it will be guestioned.

~Rebel~

ElTel wrote: »

His system was working. As Gbear pointed out earlier when it's found out and your still persist with sguare pegs for round holes it will be guestioned.

Exactly - he turned out to be the perfect choice for the role as it was within that system, springboarding the team. But that system isn't working anymore, so different options need to be tried in different positions to find something that does work.

Klopp should get credit for the team as it was for the first few months of the season, and should get criticism until he manages to repeat that feat with a new system. That's football. That's life.

noodler

niallo27 wrote: »

Hindsight is great. There was no one to buy in January. No decent players go in Jan. Was there anyone even available. The bit of luck has run out. All the big teams have had their blips let's see how he deals with it.

Now, we are way, way past blip territory.

The season has gone down the pan in the space of 7 weeks.

ElTel

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly - he turned out to be the perfect choice for the role as it was within that system, springboarding the team. But that system isn't working anymore, so different options need to be tried in different positions to find something that does work.

Klopp should get credit for the team as it was for the first few months of the season, and should get criticism until he manages to repeat that feat with a new system. That's football. That's life.

Well I think he has to (and will) persist with the system.
For me I want Can at CB for rest of Season with Matip and Moreno LB, Millner in for Clyne is probably overkill so Millner dropped and Clyne to remain tall and fast.

spiralism

Don't regularly lurk on match threads but gonna offer a bit of scope here.

People said earlier in the year that Guardiola was struggling to adapt to teams sitting back, well it seems to have passed under the radar for some time that Klopp is guilty of exactly the same thing. In fact it's arguably worse as City have at least had something of a revival and have shown some ability to crack massed defences and shown some measure of adapting, albeit with a squad that cost somewhere around the collective GDP of Moldova. Klopp's stubborness is appearing just as bad, even reinforced by the fact that he committed the exact same mistake against Leicester as Man City did and sent his suspect defence out with a high line to get taken to the cleaners by a player who is literally the quickest and most lethal back shoulder poacher in the entire league.

Personally i would have put it down to his thin squad tiring early, but after two weeks off on the back of a great result to turn in an utterly abject performace against the most out of form team in the league, there's more to it. It's basically a repeat of what happened to Dortmund in Germany in his last season, teams gave them the ball and sat back and they had not a clue how to break them down, then leaked a goal off the back of some shoddy defending.... sound familiar? That was with Aubameyang, Mhkitaryan, Gundogan and Reus all there as options as well. There's significantly less quality he's dealing with here to be fair.

Also, it's also been a bit apparent for a while that Klopp doesn't really get defending at all. His early dortmund sides had an absolutely world class CB pairing of Subotic(who at the time was certainly in that bracket)/Hummels, Piszcek who was also quality and the servicable Schmelzer. As the quality dipped even slightly with Hummels becoming less consistent, they leaked way more goals, and that was even with Sokratis next to him, another excellent defender. This becomes way more of an issue when he goes to Liverpool off the back of them having Rodgers who's ultra gung ho style left the defence a weak link from the beginning, not to mention a dodgy keeper (who has since been given competition of...another dodgy keeper). Since arriving Klopp has done precisely **** all in about 18 months to correct that, with the exception of signing Matip. He's playing two midfielders there, playing a shocking lb in a europa league final who got subsequently embarrassed, giving kids run outs at times and nothing seems to be working at all.

On that topic, where was the investment? Sorry to break any people's romantic notions but investment was clearly needed, while he managed great things with Dortmund, they churned out some great young players at the time and made some shrewd moves but this does not always work. I think the whole idea of building squads from academy products is great in theory but the reality is that it doesn't always happen. You're not always going to have your academy churn out or develop from a young age a Reus, a Gotze and an Aubameyang every time. Even Barca are learning this lesson of late with their golden generation now aging or having already retired and them turning to younger players that aren't making the grade. In today's football, more often than not, you're gonna have to spend money. So why didn't he? I mean, all well and good that he had a low net spend or whatever but the squad had loads of holes, notably in the spine of the team. You're not gonna get very far with a dodgy keeper, a borderline top 10 backline and limited striking options. You can pine for the romanticism of developing a golden generation but where's it gonna get you? You're seeing young lads in matchday squads making the bench but not getting a sniff in the league and it just gives the impression that he knows they arent the answer either and proper cover is needed. For good measure, his teams have traditionally been rather injury prone due to the style of play and intense training sessions. So combine that with a thin squad with lots of holes and...yikes.

Not advocating for Liverpool to get rid of him as im not sure that's the right move so early. But at the rate this is going, it's going to rightly start being a conversation. In fact, i'd worry as his teams have actually ran out of steam in the late stages of seasons as well, so there's argument that this could get worse before it gets better.

What benefit is not being in the Europa bringing to this Liverpool team and more importantly the fan experience? Honestly?

They may as well be in it, try to enjoy the tournament and maintain a European presence (if they miss out on CL this season) rather than prefer to finish in 6th and avoid a Europa spot "to concentrate on the league next season".

Not just Liverpool fans, I've seen that line of thought in the United thread in recent years also and I disagree with it for any top team. United and Liverpool still drop silly points regardless of not having a midweek European game a few days earlier.

Liverpool have had 2 weeks and a foreign training camp to prepare for that Leicester game, yet the team resembled one which have gone through a hectic schedule of matches in those 2 weeks. They may as well have had a Europa away game last Thursday night.

Demosthenese

Why is it insinuated that its romantic NOT to invest in a Liverpool squad? I would suggest that like all teams Liverpool supporters would like very much indeed for the shackles to be lifted from the pursestrings - but that's just not gona happen. Simple.

Liverpool are in the same kind of confines as Arsenal for example - never losing their heads by spending exorborate amounts of cash on players - its a sound strategy for clubs to go by these days not only in the Premier League but in other countries too.

I'm not saying i'd prefer they did it this way, as it's increasingly frustrating to compete with other clubs for what seems like a handful of decent players - most of which move for money anyway but that's the way it is.

It's getting increasingly harder to get these players to the premier league and even when you do throw money at the problem you are not guaranteed success are you? At least not immediately. For a Club like United for example (and im not bashing their policy here ;;;) they paid heavily over the odds for Pogba which although might bring success it proves it doesn't come overnight.

With Pep/Mourinho both playing with blank chequebooks the chances of other clubs competing becomes harder to become a reality.

Liverpool are going to have to suck it up for a while cos January has derailed their season and from here on in it's about weeding out the weak and already looking ahead for next season. I'd put Spurs/United/City ahead of them in the search for the Top4 and it doesn't look like a change in fortune is coming soon.

NIMAN

Demosthenese wrote: »

Liverpool are in the same kind of confines as Arsenal for example - never losing their heads by spending exorborate amounts of cash on players - its a sound strategy for clubs to go by these days not only in the Premier League but in other countries too.

Maybe the way to go?

I do think Arsenal definitely live by this motto. I think Wenger thinks "I could spend £200 million and maybe win the EPL. Or I could spend £50 and qualify for the CL and thats success".

I think his logic is probably good in todays world. Why bankrupt a club just to win a title which in the great scheme of things isn't needed any more? As long as he brings CL money 18 years on the bounce, is he not doing well?

He will leave the club in the Top 4 of the EPL consistently and on a sound financial footing. OK so he hasn't win the WPL in a long time, but does he need to?

It might be different for Liverpool as they need to get that monkey off their back at least once. But is it worth busting the club to do it, when you are competing with other clubs with more financial clout that you?

Liam McPoyle

Demosthenese wrote: »

Why is it insinuated that its romantic NOT to invest in a Liverpool squad? I would suggest that like all teams Liverpool supporters would like very much indeed for the shackles to be lifted from the pursestrings - but that's just not gona happen. Simple.

Liverpool are in the same kind of confines as Arsenal for example - never losing their heads by spending exorborate amounts of cash on players - its a sound strategy for clubs to go by these days not only in the Premier League but in other countries too.

I'm not saying i'd prefer they did it this way, as it's increasingly frustrating to compete with other clubs for what seems like a handful of decent players - most of which move for money anyway but that's the way it is.

It's getting increasingly harder to get these players to the premier league and even when you do throw money at the problem you are not guaranteed success are you? At least not immediately. For a Club like United for example (and im not bashing their policy here ;;;) they paid heavily over the odds for Pogba which although might bring success it proves it doesn't come overnight.

With Pep/Mourinho both playing with blank chequebooks the chances of other clubs competing becomes harder to become a reality.

Liverpool are going to have to suck it up for a while cos January has derailed their season and from here on in it's about weeding out the weak and already looking ahead for next season. I'd put Spurs/United/City ahead of them in the search for the Top4 and it doesn't look like a change in fortune is coming soon.

There have been many examples of LFC fans on Boards talking about Klopp "doing it the right way" as in not spending big money on a single player. The whole "he will get the players in that he wants and that want to play for the club" or he isn't a chequebook manager etc.

Its a romantic notion that that will work in the PL.

In Germany he had Munich to compete with.

In the PL he has City,Arse,United,Spurs,Chelsea all vying for the top 4 and the like of Everton and Southampton for top 6 so there are a lot more teams to beat (figuratively) than he has ever had to deal with.

I'd love to see United build another team like the class of 92, absolutely love it, but I'm a realist, that was a freak occurrence. Many clubs nowadays have world class youth and academy set ups so its more difficult for a single club to hoover up all the young talent.

Lovely Bloke

Demosthenese wrote: »

Why is it insinuated that its romantic NOT to invest in a Liverpool squad?

Because Klopp said something about "not doing it that way" and Pool fans lapped up that KoolAid.

Also, they've derided United, Chelsea and City for "buying the league" over the past 30 years (funny how they celebrated like mad the day Blackburn won the league, mind) - so it would be pretty strange for them to suddenly start looking for their team to start splashing the cash.

StringerBell

Just caught the highlights, enjoyed them, would watch again.

Now if Leicester could go on a long losing streak and **** down to the Championship that would be great, Liverpool are on the trajectory I predicted back when they had the league won in Oct/Nov so gotta be happy with that too.

Good two days of football overall

sReq | uTeK

lala