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Speculating on Re Regs

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    #92
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,066 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Tony EH wrote: »
    But say Noddy's "questions" have already been addressed many, many, times over many, many, threads when he was posting as Big Ears. Is it not a big fat pain in the arse for people to have to go over that again in the mistaken belief that Noddy is a new guy who just doesn't know?

    To me that's just trolling. It might be slightly more sophisticated than starting a thread like "Liberals are all ****...discuss", but it's still trolling nonetheless, no?

    If its trolling let the mods deal with it. Simple.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #93
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,066 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    charlie14 wrote: »
    It`s nothing to do with attacking the poster, it`s the fact that it is posts that that have been so obviously made by the same poster in another guise that it`s laughable, and under the rules nobody is supposed to notice or say "we had this conversation already, bith of us know that see post #xxx, now move on and stop wasting everyones time"

    Are you suggesting that poster who are so obviously by their style, manner, and content are re-registers should be given free reign here to keep repeating points what has been debated and dealt ad nauseam in their previous existence should be by others using the ignore button.

    Would you meet someone day after day who keeps coming up with the same argument ignore that, rather than point out that you have both been over that repeatedly and just because he/she is wears a different hat each day doesn`t entitle him/her to act as if you develop amnesia each time you see a new hat ?

    To me its clear
    If its trolling report it
    If you have interacted with someone before and dont want to interact again ignore and walk away.

    It really is that clear and simple and I cant see why there is such a hullaballoo

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #94
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    If its trolling let the mods deal with it. Simple.

    That would be the ideal rather than as now stand of leaving posters in the position of knowing or even suspecting a re-register is trolling or baiting under threat of sanctions for even suggesting it in chat.


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    #95
    Bishopsback
    Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Bishopsback


    charlie14 wrote: »
    It`s nothing to do with attacking the poster, it`s the fact that it is posts that that have been so obviously made by the same poster in another guise that it`s laughable, and under the rules nobody is supposed to notice or say "we had this conversation already, bith of us know that see post #xxx, now move on and stop wasting everyones time"

    Are you suggesting that poster who are so obviously by their style, manner, and content are re-registers should be given free reign here to keep repeating points what has been debated and dealt ad nauseam in their previous existence should be by others using the ignore button.

    Would you meet someone day after day who keeps coming up with the same argument ignore that, rather than point out that you have both been over that repeatedly and just because he/she is wears a different hat each day doesn`t entitle him/her to act as if you develop amnesia each time you see a new hat ?

    The same points over and over are made by many posters.
    All you have to do is look at many threads and if you have a point to make you explain it, it can be made in many different ways and can be made over and over to argue against disagreements with it or other points of relevance to it.
    Are some posters looking for censorship of a point, or even stating that if something is said then don't say it again?
    There will be a few short threads if that's the case I'd say.


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    #96
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,298 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    It really is that clear and simple and I cant see why there is such a hullaballoo

    The hullabaloo arises when people get carded for realising that they're talking to somebody they've already discussed points with multiple times in a previous guise.

    It's not people re-registering that's the issue. It's the sanctioning for the, quite often, mild declaration of that realisation.


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    #97
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    To me its clear
    If its trolling report it
    If you have interacted with someone before and dont want to interact again ignore and walk away.

    It really is that clear and simple and I cant see why there is such a hullaballoo

    Posters are supposed to ignore they even suspect they know who the re-register is under threat of sanction so what can they report, even if they were inclined too, without referring to the suspected original user name.

    If you interacted with someone before and dont want to interact again well and good, but that is not what I am talking about.
    In that situation you can simply say, "we have been through this posts such and such, if you have nothing new to add I dont see any further point in going over old ground again*

    Doing that with a re-reg that you, and where it is plain many others on a thread, know the prior identity the poster was using as little a few weeks earlier, to even suggest it will get you sanctioned.


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    #98
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Bishopsback wrote: »
    The same points over and over are made by many posters.
    All you have to do is look at many threads and if you have a point to make you explain it, it can be made in many different ways and can be made over and over to argue against disagreements with it or other points of relevance to it.
    Are some posters looking for censorship of a point, or even stating that if something is said then don't say it again?
    There will be a few short threads if that's the case I'd say.

    I have no problem with debating with any poster making their point over and over from as many angles as they wish. It will generally get to the point that you can say if you wish " Look, you have continually made this point from all angles, I have dealt with it posts such and such, and if you have nothing new to add it is just getting tiresome"

    With a re-reg to even suggest you may have debated with a poster in a previous guise will result in a sanction.


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    #99
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Beasty wrote: »
    How do you know it's a re-reg?

    Because they've said they are!!!

    In one instance the rereg has already explained that they're a rereg and spoken in derogatory terms about the people in a thread they're now posting in again, two of whom have now been carded for "speculating" that the self confessed rereg is a reg..

    You couldn't make it up, it's a joke.

    If anyone wants to explain how the rereg in this case isn't just baiting I'd love to hear it.

    But I'll give them one thing, they werent trying to deceive anyone by pretending they're not a rereg.


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    #100
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Because they've said they are!!!

    In one instance the rereg has already explained that they're a rereg and spoken in derogatory terms about the people in a thread they're now posting in again, two of whom have now been carded for "speculating" that the self confessed rereg is a reg..

    You couldn't make it up, it's a joke.

    If anyone wants to explain how the rereg in this case isn't just baiting I'd love to hear it.

    But I'll give them one thing, they're not trying to deceive anyone by pretending they're not a rereg.

    Thanks for that.

    Something I wasn`t aware off.

    That would seem to be very much at variance of what I was assure of by mods on how they monitor re-regs.


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    #101
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,066 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Posters are supposed to ignore they even suspect they know who the re-register is under threat of sanction so what can they report, even if they were inclined too, without referring to the suspected original user name.
    .

    What are you on about?

    You can report a post and speculate as much as you like in the report

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #102
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Because they've said they are!!!
    If they have previously admitted they are a rereg in an open forum I don't see any issue as that clearly is not speculation.

    However if they have not admitted who they are a rereg of then to openly speculate on that front and perhaps claim they are a rereg of a banned poster will rightly be clamped down on.


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    #103
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What are you on about?

    You can report a post and speculate as much as you like in the report

    From the reaction of all mods on this subject to date do you seriously believe anyone reading this thread would look on that as anything but a waste of time and effort !


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    #104
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Beasty wrote: »
    If they have previously admitted they are a rereg in an open forum I don't see any issue as that clearly is not speculation.

    However if they have not admitted who they are a rereg of then to openly speculate on that front and perhaps claim they are a rereg of a banned poster will rightly be clamped down on.

    But re-regs who we are told are paid particular attention to as mods know who they are, can openly admit to being a re-reg, and yet if a poster even hints they are he/she will get sanctioned.

    That about says it all as far as I`m concerned


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    #105
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    charlie14 wrote: »
    But re-regs who we are told are paid particular attention to as mods know who they are, can openly admit to being a re-reg, and yet if a poster even hints they are he/she will get sanctioned.

    That about says it all as far as I`m concerned
    I'm confused over what the issue is here. A poster admitting to being a rereg is not speculation. You speculating they are a rereg is. It seems to me to be a very simple and straightforward distinction.


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    #106
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Beasty wrote: »
    If they have previously admitted they are a rereg in an open forum I don't see any issue as that clearly is not speculation.

    Well, mods need to agree on this, because there's no consistency on that point.
    Beasty wrote: »
    However if they have not admitted who they are a rereg of then to openly speculate on that front and perhaps claim they are a rereg of a banned poster will rightly be clamped down on.

    And that's my whole point about being permitted to ask someone if they're a rereg if they're advertising that they are, by their "new" username being a variant of their last one and rejoining threads where they left off.

    By not just coming out and saying they are, it looks like they're deliberately deceiving others.

    They don't have to of course. They can perpetuate the charade for the craic if they want.


    The thing is, no one should notice they're a rereg if they're genuine about trying to be a "new user".

    If they're not a "new user" what's their game, why are they hiding behind this silly rule, and having the upper hand, wasting everyone's time here?

    They can not say they wanted to "create a new identity" to avail of this "cloak of anonymity" :rolleyes: and at the same time openly decide to replicate their past username and carry on as normal and expect anyone to repect that.

    It's too clever by far.

    That is why I used the word deceive.


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    #107
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I think it's worth noting that speculating on if a person is a rereg and speculating on who they are a rereg of are two different things. If a person admits to being a rereg does that give users carte blanche to speculate on who they are a rereg of?


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    #108
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Beasty wrote: »
    I'm confused over what the issue is here. A poster admitting to being a rereg is not speculation. You speculating they are a rereg is. It seems to me to be a very simple and straightforward distinction.

    Then you must not be following what has been said.

    There have been cards issued for hinting someone may be a re-reg, where the the poster has already it appears admitted to being a re-reg.

    Surely as we were being assured here that re-regs were being paid particular attention too by mods this should not be the case.

    To me it is simply a case of the re-reg being able to take the p**s should that be their inclination, knowing the rules here are giving them the literal meaning of carte blanche :
    "permission to do something in any way you choose to do it"


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    #109
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    If you are discussing a question on Northern Irish politics why do you want to completely derail the discussion off topic to talk about Noddy?

    No, not to talk about Noddy. Wrong focus.

    To ask why Noddysback is now suddenly aping Noddy, who closed their account.

    Do you follow? Either they're openly Noddy under the "new" name Noddysback and pretending not to be, or someone is taking the pišš.

    I'd like to be able to enquire with Noddysback if I've previously interacted with them in some depth because I did with someone called Noddy.

    What's wrong about that?

    Why isn't it permitted?


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    #110
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    charlie14 wrote: »

    There have been cards issued for hinting someone may be a re-reg, where the the poster has already it appears admitted to being a re-reg.
    Why do you say "it appears"? Can you provide an example of a poster openly stating they are a re-reg with another poster subsequently stating the first poster is a re-reg then being carded for doing so? Has anyone who has been so carded appealed to the mod and if unsuccessful there in the DRP?


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    #111
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Why isn't it permitted?
    Are you a re-reg of that known troll Going Backward?

    You may be completely new to the site, and someone is suddenly in your face suggesting you are a re-reg troll. Not a very nice introduction is it? In fact some people may as a result be completely put off posting because they then think they are under some kind of suspicion. Not a very nice situation to be in

    But no - sod them. I need to know and don't care about their feelings.


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    #112
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Beasty wrote: »
    Why do you say "it appears"? Can you provide an example of a poster openly stating they are a re-reg with another poster subsequently stating the first poster is a re-reg then being carded for doing so? Has anyone who has been so carded appealed to the mod and if unsuccessful there in the DRP?

    I can help with the first part of your question.


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102484853&postcount=297


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102561307&postcount=513


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    #113
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Beasty wrote: »
    Why do you say "it appears"? Can you provide an example of a poster openly stating they are a re-reg with another poster subsequently stating the first poster is a re-reg then being carded for doing so? Has anyone who has been so carded appealed to the mod and if unsuccessful there in the DRP?
    Beasty wrote: »
    Are you a re-reg of that known troll Going Backward?

    You may be completely new to the site, and someone is suddenly in your face suggesting you are a re-reg troll. Not a very nice introduction is it? In fact some people may as a result be completely put off posting because they then think they are under some kind of suspicion. Not a very nice situation to be in

    But no - sod them. I need to know and don't care about their feelings.

    The current situation we have in the cafe arose when a poster in the last "mega feedback" thread who was new said that they had previously had an account. They never said who they were in the past etc.

    We now have posters in the cafe who believe they know who the knew person was in the past, and are making comments referencing the previous account and it's posting style and how similar it is to the new poster.

    That's what's in contention here.

    Yesterday we'd one poster refer to the new account in terms of their posting history in previous threads which were locked prior to the new poster registering.

    So clear speculation not on the fact it's a re-reg as the new account posted, but on who they are.


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    #114
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Stheno wrote: »
    So clear speculation not on the fact it's a re-reg as the new account posted, but on who they are.
    And to me that warrants action every time


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    #115
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Stheno wrote: »
    The current situation we have in the cafe arose when a poster in the last "mega feedback" thread who was new said that they had previously had an account. They never said who they were in the past etc.

    We now have posters in the cafe who believe they know who the knew person was in the past, and are making comments referencing the previous account and it's posting style and how similar it is to the new poster.

    That's what's in contention here.

    Yesterday we'd one poster refer to the new account in terms of their posting history in previous threads which were locked prior to the new poster registering.

    So clear speculation not on the fact it's a re-reg as the new account posted, but on who they are.

    It's not just posters.

    Is the rule being broken in this post, and what "connection" are they talking about?
    To be fair blanch152, posting style and opinions gives a lot away too.
    Someone familiar with your previous incarnation could have made the connection.



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102561307&postcount=513

    You can make the connection, just not say you've made it, which is fair enough, because you might be wrong.

    But wouldn't it be constructive, and save an awful lot of hassle if upon thinking you've made the "connection" if we were permitted to ask the new poster who's obviously not bothered about the gift of the "cloak of anonymity" if we've interacted with them previously???


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    #116
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Beasty wrote: »
    And to me that warrants action every time

    Yeah, I can see the three wise monkeys reasoning behind that.


    Nailing a poster who even hints that a re-reg is using the protection the rules are giving them to just act the mick is the easier option alright!


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    #117
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Beasty wrote: »
    Are you a re-reg of that known troll Going Backward?

    No.

    See how easy it works?

    Beasty wrote: »
    You may be completely new to the site, and someone is suddenly in your face suggesting you are a re-reg troll. Not a very nice introduction is it? In fact some people may as a result be completely put off posting because they then think they are under some kind of suspicion. Not a very nice situation to be in

    But no - sod them. I need to know and don't care about their feelings.

    What about my feelings?

    Do you take the new guys feelings more seriously?

    Why?


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    #118
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Going Forward wrote: »
    No.

    See how easy it works?




    What about my feelings?

    Do you take the new guys feelings more seriously?

    Why?

    Your feelings? Seriously? You think you have some kind of God-given right to satisfy your own curiosity?

    TBH I'm done with this thread. If you guys really cannot understand the points I have made I just give up


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    #119
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,066 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    charlie14 wrote: »
    From the reaction of all mods on this subject to date do you seriously believe anyone reading this thread would look on that as anything but a waste of time and effort !

    Yes

    As explained to you above the mods spend a lot of time on rereg posters - sometimes there may actually be nothing actionable though

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #120
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,066 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Going Forward wrote: »
    No, not to talk about Noddy. Wrong focus.

    To ask why Noddysback is now suddenly aping Noddy, who closed their account.

    Do you follow? Either they're openly Noddy under the "new" name Noddysback and pretending not to be, or someone is taking the pišš.

    I'd like to be able to enquire with Noddysback if I've previously interacted with them in some depth because I did with someone called Noddy.

    What's wrong about that?

    Why isn't it permitted?

    So basically you want to derail the thread completely off topic to turn the discussion into a discussion on the poster! Nah this is silly - threads are there to serve a purpose of discussing a particular topic not for pointless long winded off topic derailed discussions on other posters

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #121
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,066 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Beasty wrote: »
    Are you a re-reg of that known troll Going Backward?

    You may be completely new to the site, and someone is suddenly in your face suggesting you are a re-reg troll. Not a very nice introduction is it? In fact some people may as a result be completely put off posting because they then think they are under some kind of suspicion. Not a very nice situation to be in

    But no - sod them. I need to know and don't care about their feelings.

    Yeah we absolutely need to completely derail any discussion to discuss who going backward is or was and why they reregistered.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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