The ninja cycle epidemic *mod warning - see OP*

mrcheez

I typically notice a few ninjas on my cycle home these days but usually I'm too busy concentrating on traffic to see just how bad it really has become.

I had to drive into the office to pick something up this evening and the drivers seat afforded me a more relaxed view of the route I normally take. I couldn't believe the number of ppl sans lights weaving through traffic. I counted 20 in the space of 15 minutes.

Now I'm no angel in the road and I may go through the odd red light (when no pedestrians/cars approaching), but being seen at night is just something I automatically assume everyone does without thinking.

I thought it was just young uns, but even Lycra clad cycle club members were at it. What gives???

Mod warning:

Beasty wrote: »

We've already issued one mod warning to keep on topic and move away from all this cyclist versus motorist crap. There will be no more "friendly" warnings. Back onto the topic which is ninja cyclists

Any questions please PM me

Wishbone Ash

But you noticed them! :pac:

mrcheez

Or more specifically why would someone not have lights? Is it a cost thing? Fear they'll look silly? Life too busy with social media to think of such minor things?

I've asked one or two mid cycle and answer is like "aww I know I should ..."

So, laziness? Or are they waiting for the gardai to give out more free ones?

mrcheez

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But you noticed them! :pac:

Only when they were 5m away. Fine when you're on a bike. Not good when driving at 40kph

07Lapierre

Never underestimate the stupidity of joe public! (Lack of enforcement by the gardai is also an issue... although lack of resources is probably a contributing factor)

rollingscone

Red front lights are getting ubiquitous.

It makes me see red both literally and figuratively

Wishbone Ash

rollingscone wrote: »

Red front lights are getting ubiquitous.

It makes me see red both literally and figuratively

That bloody idiot in the Sky kit who frequents the Clontarf/Sutton track at night! It's bad enough that he has a red up front but he puts a white at the rear. :mad::mad::mad:

The tax man

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That bloody idiot in the Sky kit who frequents the Clontarf/Sutton track at night! It's bad enough that he has a red up front but he puts a white at the rear. :mad::mad::mad:

I'll raise your red front and white rear, to a blue front and flashing white rear light I passed this evening. The mind boggles.

Jack the Stripper

Are white front flashing lights legal along with rear red ones?

Wishbone Ash

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Are white front flashing lights legal along with rear red ones?

Yes (law was changed a few years back).

Kaisr Sose

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But you noticed them! :pac:

But he was performing valid Boardsies research ...and looking for them

Kaisr Sose

mrcheez wrote: »

Or more specifically why would someone not have lights? Is it a cost thing? Fear they'll look silly? Life too busy with social media to think of such minor things?

I've asked one or two mid cycle and answer is like "aww I know I should ..."

So, laziness? Or are they waiting for the gardai to give out more free ones?

Life is cheaper than lights...

Kaisr Sose

07Lapierre wrote: »

Never underestimate the stupidity of joe public! (Lack of enforcement by the gardai is also an issue... although lack of resources is probably a contributing factor)

It's not the role of An Garda to enforce common sense. It basic common sense that if you want to see in a dark room, you turn a light on. So conversely, if you want to be seen while cycling at night, you use lights.

Rokta

I see so many of them on my rather short commute every day...every time Darwinism comes to my mind, survival of the fittest...

Even cheap lights are better than no ones but tbh you should never skimp out on a good set of lights, you life might depend on it one day.

Thud

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's not the role of An Garda to enforce common sense. It basic common sense that if you want to see in a dark room, you turn a light on. So conversely, if you want to be seen while cycling at night, you use lights.

I remember as a kid I was told to get off my bike and walk it home by a Garda because I didn't have a light

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's not the role of An Garda to enforce common sense.

it's the role of an garda siochana to enforce the law.
it's not the role of an garda siochana to enforce common sense.

what happens when the law=common sense? does logic collapse into a singularity?

Pinch Flat

I think anyone that cycles at night, particularly in unlit areas, without a light without a light back and front (a proper one, not some yoke from dealz) is idiotic.

The cynic in me would say that people who have hi-vis vests / bag covers on probably think that the hi-vis affords them some sort of protection.

Macy0161

mrcheez wrote: »

What gives???

Victim blaming RSA/ media/ politicians on focusing on hi viz and helmets, imo.

We saw it during recent discussions on road safety, minimum passing distances etc - no mention of enforcement of lights, or of having a clear minimum standard of lights like Germany. The great brainwaves from our politicians, not completely dismissed by the Minister, was about mandatory hi viz.

Macy0161

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The cynic in me would say that people who have hi-vis vests / bag covers on probably think that the hi-vis affords them some sort of protection.

That's the message they're continually told!

Samuel T. Cogley

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think anyone that cycles at night, particularly in unlit areas, without a light without a light back and front (a proper one, not some yoke from dealz) is idiotic.

The cynic in me would say that people who have hi-vis vests / bag covers on probably think that the hi-vis affords them some sort of protection.

In comparison to the morons in dark clothing it does. I'd take I hi vis on the back pack over nothing any day of the week.

Also I don't really care what colour the light is as long as they have them. If they need to rebel against 'the man' more power to them if they've lights on.

robyntmorton

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Also I don't really care what colour the light is as long as they have them. If they need to rebel against 'the man' more power to them if they've lights on.

That I have to absolutely disagree with. Road users are trained and conditioned to automatically associate white with the front and red with the back of a moving object. For someone to "rebel against 'the man" in this way is confusing for others, foolish, and frankly dangerous.

Pinch Flat

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

In comparison to the morons in dark clothing it does. I'd take I hi vis on the back pack over nothing any day of the week.

Also I don't really care what colour the light is as long as they have them. If they need to rebel against 'the man' more power to them if they've lights on.

I'm in partial agreement. Hi-vis (and I mean reflective elements of hi-vis - the green fluorescent is useless in the dark) is certainly better than nothing on an unlit rural road in the dark, where it is likely to stand out more. In an urban situation, I would argue its efficacy in the dark.

Having a cyclist coming against you on a narrow path cycle path with a red flashing light can or approaching someone with a rear flashing white light can be dangerous and disorientating. Had it happen a few times in the Phoenix Park at night. It's white on the front, red on the back. Not too difficult.

cdaly_

robyntmorton wrote: »

That I have to absolutely disagree with. Road users are trained and conditioned to automatically associate white with the front and red with the back of a moving object. For someone to "rebel against 'the man" in this way is confusing for others, foolish, and frankly dangerous.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Having a cyclist coming against you on a narrow path cycle path with a red flashing light can or approaching someone with a rear flashing white light can be dangerous and disorientating. Had it happen a few times in the Phoenix Park at night. It's white on the front, red on the back. Not too difficult.

I have stopped people once or twice to point out the danger of red on the front. They've all said approximately "Oh, I didn't know that"... :rolleyes:

Samuel T. Cogley

robyntmorton wrote: »

That I have to absolutely disagree with. Road users are trained and conditioned to automatically associate white with the front and red with the back of a moving object. For someone to "rebel against 'the man" in this way is confusing for others, foolish, and frankly dangerous.

Which is probably why they do it, to draw attention to themselves. Tbh and I'm talking about an urban setting here, once you see them it's grand. Driving it wouldn't make any odds to me. I can see PFs point ref other cyclists/pedestrians though.

robyntmorton

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Which is probably why they do it, to draw attention to themselves. Tbh and I'm talking about an urban setting here, once you see them it's grand. Driving it wouldn't make any odds to me. I can see PFs point ref other cyclists/pedestrians though.

Yes, seeing them is important. The problem I have though is that while you are processing and trying to reconcile red light front in your situational awareness, what do you miss?

tomasrojo

I once pulled out a side road partly in front of someone on a bike because they had a red light at the front. Bizarrely, they also had a white light at the rear. No idea why they didn't just swap them.

I was on the bike, no harm was done, but I really did instinctively think they were heading away from me when I looked to the right from the side road. I really think it's a terrible idea putting a red at the front.

(On a very slightly related topic, I do regret that red became the standard colour for the rear reflector, as red reflectors really aren't all that eye-catching compared to, say, yellow. But there's no point in changing it now, and maybe we've all had enough of yellow, here in the Hi-Vizocene epoch.)

cython

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Which is probably why they do it, to draw attention to themselves. Tbh and I'm talking about an urban setting here, once you see them it's grand. Driving it wouldn't make any odds to me. I can see PFs point ref other cyclists/pedestrians though.

robyntmorton wrote: »

Yes, seeing them is important. The problem I have though is that while you are processing and trying to reconcile red light front in your situational awareness, what do you miss?

Not to mention that you assume that a red light will be either stationary or heading away from you, and as a result you have one expectation of its relative velocity to you (and consequently the time it may take to close the gab between you and it), but when the red light is on the front this expectation becomes exceedingly wrong. It's downright dangerous to have a red light on the front really. White light on the rear is probably slightly more forgivable, if just because you will assume it is heading towards you, and be surprised when it takes longer for you to meet it, but still most certainly inconsiderate and even dangerous in its own way.

JMcL

robyntmorton wrote: »

That I have to absolutely disagree with. Road users are trained and conditioned to automatically associate white with the front and red with the back of a moving object. For someone to "rebel against 'the man" in this way is confusing for others, foolish, and frankly dangerous.

This. It's also the law - white (or yellow) front, and red rear - both can flash

Samuel T. Cogley

robyntmorton wrote: »

Yes, seeing them is important. The problem I have though is that while you are processing and trying to reconcile red light front in your situational awareness, what do you miss?

You really shouldn't be missing anything. If you're relying on lights alone, there's a bigger issue at play.

Moflojo

Lights are a legal requirement yet very few bikes are sold with integrated lights. There should be an onus on manufacturers and retailers to include lights in the sale of every bike.

If lights were an 'optional extra' on motor vehicles would there be a similar issue with Ninja Motorists? I think there would be.

Pinch Flat

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You really shouldn't be missing anything. If you're relying on lights alone, there's a bigger issue at play.

Well, some dark evenings coming through the phoenix park, I've tried to work out the red flashing light coming against me, then become distracted with another cyclist, probably not lit up as well, or a stray jogger / walker in the cycle lane. It's dangerous simple as.