Why people have children

zom

Shenshen wrote: »

As opposed to Ireland who had to send droves of them overseas because there was no work for them once they left school?

Most of migrating Irish are qualify specialised professionals who can't find jobs here simply because we are small country. We don't have much industry for example. Imagine you are nuclear plant specialist - not much opportunities here - but a lot in UK or France.
Overall net migration is on plus anyway, there stream of young people from Europe and all World willing to work and live here. So stop moaning./

PARlance

Shenshen wrote: »

As opposed to Ireland who had to send droves of them overseas because there was no work for them once they left school?

Ah yes, they fled due to overpopulation.

And there was me thinking it was due to the financial crisis coupled with our very own Irish crisis.

meeeeh

I don't know why we had kids. I usually jump before I look and kids were kind of the same. But I would not have it any other way. There is nothing better than to try to keep straight face after the older tells you you hurt his feelings because you pointed out the shirt is a complete mess and the jumper is on inside out. There is nothing funnier than watch the younger one plot her way out of trouble. You can literally see the cogs turning. Big brother trying to steal sister's chips or younger one telling me she only kicked him gently. Crashing into the bedroom at five in the morning and nesting herself as close to you as possible, the embarrassed grown when you plant kiss on his cheek. The comfort you get from a hug after bad day.

I am sure people have kids for various reasons but that's why I am damn glad I do.

Shenshen

zom wrote: »

Most of migrating Irish are qualify specialised professionals who can't find jobs here simply because we are small country. We don't have much industry for example. Imagine you are nuclear plant specialist - not much opportunities here - but a lot in UK or France.
Overall net migration is on plus anyway, there stream of young people from Europe and all World willing to work and live here. So stop moaning./

So which is it now? Germany's bad because they have to import labour, Ireland is good because the labour force can't find employment as the country is too small, and Ireland is also good of course because it also imports labour?

osarusan

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what your point is - are your team **** or something?

Top of the league bud.

whisky_galore

It's the must-have accessory after they tire of the shared dog/cat.

Shenshen

PARlance wrote: »

Ah yes, they fled due to overpopulation.

And there was me thinking it was due to the financial crisis coupled with our very own Irish crisis.

I never claimed either of those. I simply think it's a bit silly to call Germany in serious trouble when in fact the population density there is nearly 4 times that of Ireland. Especially since Ireland has quite a long history of not being able to provide for everyone born here, and actually having established almost a tradition of immigration.

LirW

The world does have an overpopulation problem - in certain parts of the world. Countries like Pakistan or Nigeria, huge parts of Africa in general as well as certain parts of Asia have a very young population, a certain percentage under 15 years. The population in these countries is expected to keep growing. While the population in the "first world" declines.
This is what I do not understand when someone raises the point of "we shouldn't have kids because overpopulation".
The mentality is entirely different in the west compared to less developed parts of the world: While a lot of people wanting children (and it's a fact that the current generation under 30 rules it out more and more) take everything to build a nest, have the financial stability and want to be in the right place, People in very poor regions start having children early for a variety of reasons, religious, child mortality, poor access to education and birth control.

So let me ask in a very provocative way: Why should working couple Miller in Germany/Ireland/France not have the one or two kids they really want, while in the meantime in the african countryside babies are fired out at a number that beats the european number of births per year in a single day?

PARlance

zom wrote: »

Most of migrating Irish are qualify specialised professionals who can't find jobs here simply because we are small country. We don't have much industry for example. Imagine you are nuclear plant specialist - not much opportunities here - but a lot in UK or France.
Overall net migration is on plus anyway, there stream of young people from Europe and all World willing to work and live here. So stop moaning./

CSO figures show that more Chippies than Nuclear Scientists left 2007 -2012.

meeeeh

Shenshen wrote: »

I never claimed either of those. I simply think it's a bit silly to call Germany in serious trouble when in fact the population density there is nearly 4 times that of Ireland. Especially since Ireland has quite a long history of not being able to provide for everyone born here, and actually having established almost a tradition of immigration.

I think we all know that certain European countries will have trouble paying for aging population. Germany themselves as far as I know are aware of the problem. I think there was even an initiative years ago to pay mother's at the birth of every child to increase the birth rate (it was possibly still in German marks). Population density is completely irrelevant if majority of population is not in employment. It might make European social models unsustainable. There will be always cycles in economy but that is a lot easier to repair than lack of workforce.

lawred2

Is the OP really being serious?

sbsquarepants

PARlance wrote: »

CSO figures show that more Chippies than Nuclear Scientists left 2007 -2012.

Chippies
Brickies
Nuclear Scientists
Plumbers
Astronauts
Hairdressers
Scrap metal relocation specialists
Doctors
Craic seekers
Sparks

That's the official top ten:D

PARlance

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Chippies
Brickies
Nuclear Scientists
Plumbers
Astronauts
Hairdressers
Scrap metal relocation specialists
Doctors
Craic seekers
Sparks

That's the official top ten:D

I'm surprised "Full time mad b*stards" didn't make the top 10.

AlanG

OP, kids are great fun to be around. They give you a different view on life that no amount of material goods or backpacking trips can ever do. They allow you to experience what it truly means to love someone unconditionally and they give far better hugs and smiles than a bank account can.
It may be great to have all the opportunities of time and money that having no kids gives but, for most people who are lucky enough to have kids and embrace parenthood, the rewards for being a loving parent far outweigh the benefits of being kid free.

PARlance

Shenshen wrote: »

I never claimed either of those. I simply think it's a bit silly to call Germany in serious trouble when in fact the population density there is nearly 4 times that of Ireland. Especially since Ireland has quite a long history of not being able to provide for everyone born here, and actually having established almost a tradition of immigration.

Germany is in serious trouble. Nothing to do with population density. Everything to do with decades of low birth rates. They just don't (and won't) have the workforce required to sustain their economy. You don't think Angela opened up the floodgates out of the goodness of her heart do you...

"Germany's workforce will shrink by 6m over the next 15 years, declining even faster than Japan's
Germany’s birth rate has collapsed to the lowest level in the world and its workforce will start plunging at a faster rate than Japan's by the early 2020s, seriously threatening the long-term viability of Europe’s leading economy."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11644660/Germany-dominance-over-as-demographic-crunch-worsens.html

I have 5 children. Always wanted children since I was in my teens. Can't explain why, it was just a desire that had to be fulfilled.

munchkin_utd

lawred2 wrote: »

Is the OP really being serious?

why not.
what are the benefits of having kids ?

The Hill Billy

I had my first kid because I needed an excuse to buy an Xbox. I had my second when I needed an excuse to get the Xbox 360.

stimpson

Aside from the throbbing biological urges, you never know when you might need a kidney.

And the first little organ farm was so cute we decided to have another.

RoboRat

Having kids is fantastic. Yes you have to deal with the screaming, lack of sleep, ****ty nappies and basically your social life disappears but it's more than worth it to have a kid that idolises you.... when you come home from a ****ty day at work and a little face is beaming and nearly knocking you over to hug and kiss you, everything is good again. Going out is replaced with going for walks and playing and being honest, when you do go out, it's so much more enjoyable and special.

It's hard to explain what having a child does to you unless you have one, especially for a man as until we are handed the child, there is no real connection. Once you get handed your child though, your world changes. Things like going out seem irrelevant and you get instant responsibility that is unbelievably rewarding. Nothing makes you prouder than seeing your kids doing well and being happy and life for me just seem so much more complete.

To put it in context, there is nothing that will make you feel as good like seeing your child smile and laugh.

whoopsadoodles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQfylQ2Jgg

JackTaylorFan

osarusan wrote: »

Top of the league bud.

I don't know anything about who's winning what for kicking a thing, but congrats, I guess

The One Doctor

abdulabduler wrote: »

I would love to go to a place untouched by humans which gets harder and harder to find.

And once you get there it will have been be touched by you.

People have been complaining about overpopulation since the 1800s, with a population in the 1 billion range. Back then Ireland had a population of 8 million.

Large sections of the worlds population now have a good food and water supply accompanied with reasonable healthcare. No more famines or plagues in Europe.

There is no way the world's population is going to drop, or even slow down, without a huge natural disaster, i.e Yellowstone erupting. And that's fine - if you live in a first world country.

People also go on about raping the planet, destroying this that and the other. The Earth is a huge ecosystem. We're incidental to it. All the Earth was to do is burp or get a little chilly and we're literally history. The Earth does not care about us. When we're gone the animals will take over, the cities will crumble and things will return to their natural state.

You do realise that eventually the Earth will end up inside the dying Sun?

Back on topic: I enjoyed being without children for 35 years. I now enjoy having a toddler running around, screaming, crying, laughing and learning.

My life is a lot more interesting and far less selfish now. If you don't want to kids that's your prerogative. But your use of a condom is not saving the planet.

sbsquarepants

RoboRat wrote: »

Having kids is fantastic.
To put it in context, there is nothing that will make you feel as good like seeing your child smile and laugh.

I'm 42 - I can honestly say there is no more enjoyable way to spend your time than playing with your kids, being there when they learn something new or figure something out themselves, just being part of the madness that is a kids life. It's amazing.

Travelling is good, partying is good, going out is good, making money is good, getting educated is good, chasing women is good...... lots of things are good, but having kids is amazing!

Widdershins

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why does it matter though? It would be sad for it to die off, and sad for the last of the human race, but is there any good reason to keep it going?

Galwayguy35

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Safe to say humans are here to stay at this stage.

The great thing about children is that they have the potential to save the planet.

Unfortunately I think you are right, humans are here to stay.

We've nothing to be proud of though seeing as we are killing off the other species we share the planet with us and who were here long before the first human came along.

I think people have children because it's a deep overwhelming desire to. At least that's what I like to think. I've been struggling a bit myself. When I was in my twenties I was certain I would want to be a mother at some point. Now I'm 35 and the thought fills me with dread.

At first I thought this was because my life right now isn't conducive to having kids but that's not it. It's a feeling inside of me, my heartbeat increases and my stomach turns to knots. For me right now it's not to be.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Unfortunately I think you are right, humans are here to stay.

We've nothing to be proud of though seeing as we are killing off the other species we share the planet with us and who were here long before the first human came along.

Why do you believe it's unfortunate that we are here to stay?

kunst nugget

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Unfortunately I think you are right, humans are here to stay.

We've nothing to be proud of though seeing as we are killing off the other species we share the planet with us and who were here long before the first human came along.

I just bought that poster of the quote from the Native American prophecy about not being able to eat money when all the trees are cut down. It gives me something to ponder when I'm chawing on me schteak.

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you believe it's unfortunate that we are here to stay?

We're destroying the earth and killing off all other forms of life.

Hardly a good thing is it?

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We're destroying the earth and killing off all other forms of life.

Hardly a good thing is it?

I just find it strange when people want to see the end of the human race because we are the human race. It makes me feel uneasy to think of our planet in a hundred years time without any of us inhabiting it.

Dravokivich

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We're destroying the earth and killing off all other forms of life.

Hardly a good thing is it?

What's with all this guilt?

I'm not gonna raise my son by laying on him a burden of another's making. I may as well just clip his heels as he walks.

cbyrd

munchkin_utd wrote:

why not. what are the benefits of having kids ?

Small example,
I have some to make me a cup of tea.
I gave someone to take out the ashes
I have someone to light the fire.
I have someone to try out my new recipes on. (kids are brutally honest)
I have homemade birthday/Christmas/mothers day/valentine's cards and pictures
I have someone to run into the shop when I'm tired.
I get hugs on demand.
Mine range from 18 down to 2. I have 5, number 6 on the way.
Busy noisy house, I'm wrecked most of the time but they're all class. They're good at making me proud!

Galwayguy35

Dravokivich wrote: »

What's with all this guilt?

I'm not gonna raise my son by laying on him a burden of another's making. I may as well just clip his heels as he walks.

Never mentioned anything about guilt, but the fact is that future generations will have to try and fix the mess our generation and those gone before us have made or there won't be much of an earth left.

And the fact that people in third world countries are breeding like rabbits ain't helping things either.

RoboRat

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Never mentioned anything about guilt, but the fact is that future generations will have to try and fix the mess our generation and those gone before us have made or there won't be much of an earth left.

And the fact that people in third world countries are breeding like rabbits ain't helping things either.

We are to a degree already fixing some the problems created by our own past and working towards sustainable solutions for other problems.... for example

A solar powered plane circumnavigated the world and has set a realistic precedent to switch airline travel to solar power

Tiger numbers are growing.

Manatees and pandas are no longer endangered

The Ozone layer has started to repair itself due to global efforts to get rid of aerosol chemicals.

California is now powering over 6 million homes with solar power, a record in the US

Volunteers in India planted 50 million trees in 24 hours.

500 elephants were relocated to a better, safer and bigger home.

Portugal ran its entire nation solely on renewable energy for four days straight

China will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020 and plan to cut the burning of 580 million tonnes of coal annually.

Electric and hybrid car sales are growing and as such cutting down emissions globally.

If we keep moving this way, the future isn't all doom and gloom.

Dr Crayfish

RoboRat wrote: »

We are to a degree already fixing some the problems created by our own past and working towards sustainable solutions for other problems.... for example

A solar powered plane circumnavigated the world and has set a realistic precedent to switch airline travel to solar power

Tiger numbers are growing.

Manatees and pandas are no longer endangered

The Ozone layer has started to repair itself due to global efforts to get rid of aerosol chemicals.

California is now powering over 6 million homes with solar power, a record in the US

Volunteers in India planted 50 million trees in 24 hours.

500 elephants were relocated to a better, safer and bigger home.

Portugal ran its entire nation solely on renewable energy for four days straight

China will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020 and plan to cut the burning of 580 million tonnes of coal annually.

Electric and hybrid car sales are growing and as such cutting down emissions globally.

If we keep moving this way, the future isn't all doom and gloom.

I admire your positivity but c'mon we're never going to run an A380 on solar.
Panda conservation isn't really that important. China puts way too much emphasis on pandas because they're a symbol of their nation. Having 1000s of pandas living in captivity doesn't help the environment in the grand scheme of things.
Massive lifestyle changes are needed, we just need to consume less and waste less and perhaps be a bit more humble and stop expecting to have everything in the world in our lives.

PARlance

PCW's... population control warriors. Looks like it's the lastest thing.

Galwayguy35

RoboRat wrote: »

We are to a degree already fixing some the problems created by our own past and working towards sustainable solutions for other problems.... for example

A solar powered plane circumnavigated the world and has set a realistic precedent to switch airline travel to solar power

Tiger numbers are growing.

Manatees and pandas are no longer endangered

The Ozone layer has started to repair itself due to global efforts to get rid of aerosol chemicals.

California is now powering over 6 million homes with solar power, a record in the US

Volunteers in India planted 50 million trees in 24 hours.

500 elephants were relocated to a better, safer and bigger home.

Portugal ran its entire nation solely on renewable energy for four days straight

China will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020 and plan to cut the burning of 580 million tonnes of coal annually.

Electric and hybrid car sales are growing and as such cutting down emissions globally.

If we keep moving this way, the future isn't all doom and gloom.

Less than a century ago there were 100,000 tigers in the wild and hunters shot them to near extinction so there is a long way back and as long as people think tiger bones and rhino horns are going to give them a hard dick these animals are still in danger.

But as you say a start has been made and hopefully things will continue to improve.

Arcade_Tryer

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Unfortunately I think you are right, humans are here to stay.

We've nothing to be proud of though seeing as we are killing off the other species we share the planet with us and who were here long before the first human came along.

Humans are inherently filthy, disgusting, savage and barbaric creatures. That there is so much happiness and goodness in the world is a testament to the potential people possess.

D0NNELLY

abdulabduler wrote: »

Yes, world is extremely overpopulated, humans are destroying this planet.

Do you think the world would be better off without humans?

cnocbui

abdulabduler wrote: »

Ireland has(still?) the highest birth rates in European Union. I was thinking why would anyone want to have children. Seems to me like a self inflicted torture. Screaming, shouting pooping, huge responsibility for absolute minimum of 18 years. I was thinking maybe Ireland has highest birth rate because abortion is illegal? So people who don't want children are still forced to have unwanted children which results in abuse and children growing up and resorting to crime (proven by studies). For example Germany has lowest birth rate in Europe, can someone explain to me correlation between the birth rates of Ireland and Germany?


Old article from Irish times
I doubt much has changed


IRELAND HAS the highest birth rate in Europe, according to the latest statistics from the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI).

The birth rate of 17 per 1,000 of population, up from 14.4 per 1,000 in 2000, was the highest of any of the 27 countries of the European Union in 2009, according to the Perinatal Statistics Report 2009 published yesterday.

Natural selection works like this - those of feeble mind and a low tolerance to children and a lack of any desire to reproduce, have a genetic makeup which makes them unfit for survival. Such mutants and their defective genes will only last for one generation and effectively weed themselves out of the gene pool.

Marvelous system.

RoboRat

I admire your positivity but c'mon we're never going to run an A380 on solar.
Panda conservation isn't really that important. China puts way too much emphasis on pandas because they're a symbol of their nation. Having 1000s of pandas living in captivity doesn't help the environment in the grand scheme of things.
Massive lifestyle changes are needed, we just need to consume less and waste less and perhaps be a bit more humble and stop expecting to have everything in the world in our lives.

Less than a century ago there were 100,000 tigers in the wild and hunters shot them to near extinction so there is a long way back and as long as people think tiger bones and rhino horns are going to give them a hard dick these animals are still in danger.

But as you say a start has been made and hopefully things will continue to improve.

I'm not saying we are there, we're nowhere near there but things are moving slowly in the right direction. 10-20 years ago, nothing was recycled, we were using plastic bags, everything was aerosol based, renewable energy was rarely used and car emissions were something to be proud of. Who knows what the world will be like in another 20 years, I can only hope that everything is renewable and the world is a better place.

Time will tell if its enough or if we have missed the boat but I can only hope for my kids sake, and their kids and so on, that we have done enough and will do enough to make amends for the monumental mess we have made of this planet.

MadDog76

mzungu wrote: »

It is doubtful, and there doesn't appear to be much evidence to support the notion of a biological urge either.

thedailybeast.com is fundamental evidence? Fair enough!

A survey done back in 2014 by Keele University (England) found that "men are nearly as likely to want children as women are, and actually become more distraught when they don’t have them."

A separate study, conducted over a ten year period, by Kansas State University (US) found "that baby fever did exist and it existed in both genders" with many men feeling that "having children is kind of the reason we exist, to reproduce and pass our genes on to the next generation."

Some/most people want to have children, including both women and men, for various reasons but obviously, and evidently, it's biologically ingrained in us (the human race) to want children ......... in fact, we need (and we need to want!) to have children, for obvious reasons!

mzungu

MadDog76 wrote: »

thedailybeast.com is fundamental evidence? Fair enough!

Ah no, not thedailybeast.com itself, but the study that was being written about in the article!

MadDog76 wrote: »

A survey done back in 2014 by Keele University (England) found that "men are nearly as likely to want children as women are, and actually become more distraught when they don’t have them."

A separate study, conducted over a ten year period, by Kansas State University (US) found "that baby fever did exist and it existed in both genders" with many men feeling that "having children is kind of the reason we exist, to reproduce and pass our genes on to the next generation."

Why attribute this to biology? Could it not be down to social pressure? As you said there, this was about peoples feelings. People feel lots of stuff for lots of different reasons.

The Kansas study that you mentioned above found no evidence of a biological urge among males (then again it wasn't looking for one), it did however suggest that both men and women that wanted kids for various different reasons that were usually triggered by "visual sensory things" when looking at children. Even at that, it is big still a stretch to say it was a biological urge. People want things all the time based on "visual sensory things". That is how the advertising industry works. We see, we want.

MadDog76 wrote: »

Some/most people want to have children, including both women and men, for various reasons but obviously, and evidently, it's biologically ingrained in us (the human race) to want children ......... in fact, we need (and we need to want!) to have children, for obvious reasons!

If there was a biological drive ingrained in all of us, then surely every man out there would want kids?

Galwayguy35

mzungu wrote: »

If there was a biological drive ingrained in all of us, then surely every man out there would want kids?

Of course this is only my own opinion which counts for nothing but I think men are hot wired by evolution to get the leg over with as many women as possible to continue their bloodline, which might explain the reason once we hit puberty and realise the mickey has a second function we only have one thing on our mind.

munchkin_utd

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Of course this is only my own opinion which counts for nothing but I think men are hot wired by evolution to get the leg over with as many women as possible to continue their bloodline, which might explain the reason once we hit puberty and realise the mickey has a second function we only have one thing on our mind.

indeed, but it doesnt mean you want to raise kids and loose 20 odd years of your life.

Sam Kade

abdulabduler wrote: »

World is extremely overpopulated.

Really, do you know that the world population could fit into the state of Texas and still have a space of 10x10 meters each? Also your rant about the uk breeding like rabbits, do you know the population of Europe is falling? You need to stop taking alarmism so seriously.

mzungu

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Of course this is only my own opinion which counts for nothing but I think men are hot wired by evolution to get the leg over with as many women as possible to continue their bloodline, which might explain the reason once we hit puberty and realise the mickey has a second function we only have one thing on our mind.

High sex drive? Sure. But this does not mean they want to have children. I am not doubting that a high proportion of men would like children, but I don't believe it is due to any ticking clock within them setting off a "biological urge" or anything like that. I imagine that social pressures come to the fore quite a bit in that regard, and in the case of the studies mentioned by another poster above, the sadness at not having a child is very real but is not related to biology. That would be my €0.02c.

GMSA

It's the only way to shut up the gob****es that question newly married couples about when the pitter patter of tiny feet is going to be heard. These feckers aren't happy when the first child comes along. When will they get a brother or sister. If you have 2 kids of the same sex they say you should go again and produce the other sex.
Hey presto you now have 3 kids all thanks to nosey busybodies.:)

biko

D0NNELLY wrote: »

Do you think the world would be better off without humans?

Hell yeah, but we're here and we're queer so guess the world will just have to learn to live with it.