New traffic layout on Parkmore Road

muppetkiller

Hi all,
Does anyone have the actual details for the new Road Layout on Parkmore Rd.

The new Two lane layout as I understand it is that if you are going on the N6 towards the city or in the direction of Doughiska/Briarhill you take the Right lane.
This then splits into two lanes - One going straight ahead towards Briarhill (left lane) and the other towards the right in the Direction of the city (N6)

And if you are heading towards the Coolagh roundabout you take the left lane which splits into two lanes (both going to the left) .

Both sets of two lanes are divided by a Cycle lane if anyone is brave or stupid enough to risk cycling on it.

Is this the correct layout ? As it's chaos at the moment with the two lanes beside the cycle lane heading straight ahead towards Briar Hill.

ELCAT2009

I too find it very confusing. I have checked local press, the city council website and found nothing. I emailed the city council the following text this morning but have yet to receive a response:

To whom it concerns,
I note the new road markings on the parkmore / airport roads which is to try any alleviate traffic in the evenings from parkmore sending traffic right on the N6 towards the city and left on N6 towards Dublin.
However, there are no marking to indicate which lane you should be in to go straight through from the airport rd towards Briarhill and i can tell you that in the morning there is a significant amount of traffic going straight through with very little going left.

On each of the 3 mornings since the line marking was changed (Fri, Mon and today) as i have gone through the junction i have seen vehicles trying to swap lanes (across the cycling lane which now goes between them) as they are unsure which lane they are in to go straight through. I have also see vehicles from both lanes going straight through and then converging as they reach the road between the Clayton and KFC as both think they are in the correct lane. As its stands i dont know who is correct but i think the left lane is the most appropriate lane and has the most capacity especially in the mornings.

The new layouts should be on display on your website , on local press and most importantly why not use the big electronic sign boards with some graphics to give clarity. It hasnt been used for anything in weeks. The markings on the road are not visible as they are covered by the traffic sitting on them most of the time in peak traffic.
As its stands i believe it is an accident waiting to happen with cars crossing, potential for cyclists to be knocked off their bike with cars crossing the cycle lane or a crash on the far side as the vehicles converge at KFC. There needs to be more clarity for all users.

joeKel73

It's very messy at the junction at the moment. There is no clear signage that the lanes have changed! There are loads of cars using both the old and new lanes for going from Parkmore to Briarhill/Doughiska and unexpectedly trying to merge mid-junction. This is happening on every sequence of the lights that I've seen!

ELCAT2009 wrote: »

The markings on the road are not visible as they are covered by the traffic sitting on them most of the time in peak traffic.

Galway really need to up its game with overhead signage. It's an issue down by Terryland too. The road markings are no use in bad weather and heavy traffic.

muppetkiller

I was going to say the same...How utterly useless is it to have directional signs on the actual road that is wall to wall traffic. You'll never see it.

aido76

This seems to be poorly thought through. Even the buses don't use the proper lane to go straight on. But in fairness to them, the last bus stop on the parkmore road is so close to the lights it's hard for them to get across to the right lane.
First off, before the public transport brigade start giving out about single occupancy vehicles, I think a better public transport system is the only cure to this issue. No direct bus from west to east and vice versa without going through Eyre Square is crazy at least at peak traffic times.
However, i cant see that happening, at least not in the forseeable future.
I think it would have been better to try and take as much traffic away from the Briarhill junction that doesnt need to use it i.e traffic for motorway and oranmore etc. This traffic should be sent to carnmore cross and the left lane down from parkmore should be left turn only with a flashing amber at the lights to keep it moving and only turning red for pedestrians. Right lane should be city only traffic. The Briarhill junction would be put back the way it was.
This I not ideal but i think would be better. Ideally you would need 3 lanes coming down from parkmore to the lights but space is an issue for that.

Craftylee

So the correct lanes for the junction by KFC/Dunnes are:

2 left lanes go left ONLY
bicycle lane
3rd lane goes straight on or right
right lane only goes right

But as you said its total chaos as the markings are only on the road which you can't see when queuing.

People using the old "2nd" lane to go straight ahead incorrectly (which i can understand them doing as the markings are crap), are putting cyclist to there right in serious danger. Every day i've left work from parkmore this week to head home in doughiska there's been near misses and yesterday a cyclist was almost completely taken out by someone in the left only lane going straight ahead.

I've also reached out to the council saying they need overhead signs or something as it's currently a disaster waiting to happen

schemingbohemia

Craftylee wrote: »

I've also reached out to the council saying they need overhead signs or something as it's currently a disaster waiting to happen

No you haven't, you've asked them a question, reaching has nothing to do with it. I hate that expression.

joeKel73

Craftylee wrote: »

3rd lane goes straight on or right

This is what I wanted to double check....

If the above is true, any cyclist going right will want to get out of that cycle lane and hold a position in the middle of the 3rd lane.

merson316

schemingbohemia, no one gives a ****.

biko

Let's move on from jumping on expressions and think outside the box

ELCAT2009

Thanks CraftyLee. I found out this morning that your assessment of the lane marking is correct as its stands but this layout is wrong in my view. With regards to your other point however that cyclists are in danger with cars using the "Old" 2nd lane to go straight though, i dont agree. I think that they are more in danger with cars using the "new" 3rd lane to go straight through. If someone is on their bike turning right onto the N6 towards the city, they will be taken out by the car going straight through!
The best way for the lanes is
1) Left Turn only to N6 Dublin
2) Left turn to N6 Dublin and also straight through to Briarhill
Bike Lane
3+4) Right turn only on N6 to city centre

This makes best use of the lanes in both morning and evening rush hour rather than prioritizing evening traffic the way it currently is. In the mornings traffic coming in the airport road to go straight through to Briarhill or go right on the n6 used to have 3 lanes. Now they are confined to two lanes (with 2 lanes to the left virtually empty) and hence the airport road this morning backed up to the airport itself!
Whatever way the markings are, i think it will make damn all difference to people coming out of parkmore in the evening.

Craftylee

But cyclist's can't use the N6 as it's a dual carriageway?

So they have to go straight ahead as left is another dual carriageway.

joeKel73

ELCAT2009 wrote: »

The best way for the lanes is
1) Left Turn only to N6 Dublin
2) Left turn to N6 Dublin and also straight through to Briarhill
Bike Lane
3+4) Right turn only on N6 to city centre

This would require a change in the light sequencing of the junction as the left turn goes green well before the straight/right goes green.

joeKel73

Craftylee wrote: »

But cyclist's can't use the N6 as it's a dual carriageway?

Why not?

ELCAT2009

Hi CraftyLee.
No Its only illegal to cycle ona motorway. Dual carriageway is ok.
See below from cycling Ireland:
Motorways or M Roads. It is illegal to ride a bicycle on a motorway but these roads are great for keeping traffic off the rest of the road network. Some dual carriageways (main roads with two lanes) bear a close resemblance to motorways but unless they are designated motorways, it is legal to cycle on them.
Road types in Ireland | - Cycle Ireland
cycleireland.ie/road-types-ireland/

ELCAT2009

Joe, Yes your are right now that i think of it

Craftylee

Ah ok, in my 5 years here in Galway I've never seen a cyclist on the N6

But in that case, they were better off with the layout they had before lol

ELCAT2009

Yip...looks like they are better off putting them back the way they were after all that!

joeKel73

Craftylee wrote: »

Ah ok, in my 5 years here in Galway I've never seen a cyclist on the N6

I used to cycle that dual carriageway twice every day and 2 others in my office used to do the same! Common enough cycle route in/out from Parkmore, especially in winter as the surface on the N17 hard shoulder is very rough and there is very poor lighting.

what_traffic

ELCAT2009 wrote: »

I too find it very confusing. I have checked local press, the city council website and found nothing. I emailed the city council the following text this morning but have yet to receive a response:

To whom it concerns,
I note the new road markings on the parkmore / airport roads which is to try any alleviate traffic in the evenings from parkmore sending traffic right on the N6 towards the city and left on N6 towards Dublin.
However, there are no marking to indicate which lane you should be in to go straight through from the airport rd towards Briarhill and i can tell you that in the morning there is a significant amount of traffic going straight through with very little going left.

On each of the 3 mornings since the line marking was changed (Fri, Mon and today) as i have gone through the junction i have seen vehicles trying to swap lanes (across the cycling lane which now goes between them) as they are unsure which lane they are in to go straight through. I have also see vehicles from both lanes going straight through and then converging as they reach the road between the Clayton and KFC as both think they are in the correct lane. As its stands i dont know who is correct but i think the left lane is the most appropriate lane and has the most capacity especially in the mornings.

The new layouts should be on display on your website , on local press and most importantly why not use the big electronic sign boards with some graphics to give clarity. It hasnt been used for anything in weeks. The markings on the road are not visible as they are covered by the traffic sitting on them most of the time in peak traffic.
As its stands i believe it is an accident waiting to happen with cars crossing, potential for cyclists to be knocked off their bike with cars crossing the cycle lane or a crash on the far side as the vehicles converge at KFC. There needs to be more clarity for all users.

Good letter. Any response yet?
Why can Galway City Council not do the basics on informing of road change layouts like this?

From a brief viewing of markings this morning - what stood out for me is that the OLD cycle lane markings were not properly removed and the new cycle lane in not colored in RED cycle lane surface treatment similar to the old cycle lane!
Can really see a NASTY incident occurring here if this is not rectified soon.
Accidents do NOT happen, they are caused.

aido76

The cycle lane has not changed position. It is still to the right of the lane turning left and to the left of the lane going straight on. If you look at the junction, cyclist are not supposed to go direct from the airport rd to the city inbound dual carriageway. They are supposed to go to a box infront of the dual carriageway coming from the M6 side and wait there till they get a green light to proceed into the city. This has not changed with the new layout. The problem with the new layout is alot of people don't know what lane they should be in.
Its pretty simple. Lane 1 & 2 are left only. This works with the filter green light. Then you have the bike lane. Then lane 3 is straight on (dunnes) or right on to the dual carraigeway (driving lane) and lane 4 is right only onto dual carraigeway (overtaking lane). Council should have a notice in the local papers for the past 2-3 weeks warning people of the change and giving them a chance to familiarise themselves with it.

jjpep

Craftylee wrote: »

Ah ok, in my 5 years here in Galway I've never seen a cyclist on the N6

But in that case, they were better off with the layout they had before lol

Cycle it every day. And so a good few others. Better road surface on the hard shoulder than n17 and it keeps a constant width.

ELCAT2009

@What_traffic...no response yet from the council.
@Aido76...i didnt know thats whats those white boxes are for! I wonder do many cyclists? I wonder what the reason is.It means that cyclists have to wait for 2 sets of lights coming in from briarhill when motorists only have to wait for one? Dont know if many cyclists actually do this...i cant see them waiting and they will just follow the vehicular traffic when the lights go green.

Can anybody working in parkmore say if this new marking has helped things coming out of park more in the evenings? If it hasn't it really sounds like the best solution is to go back to the way it was because the mornings are just bananas at this junction! I myself this morning coming over park more road stayed in 3rd lane to go straight through but huge amount of cars (& Bus eireann bus even!) shot up in the 2nd lane after coming in the airport rd and cut in to the 3rd lane go right. I cant say i blame them because otherwise hardly any cars coming from airport get through the T junction at top of parkmore road.

ELCAT2009

@Aido76. I Just had a quick look at the RSA website to see if i could enlighten myself about those white boxes for cyclists you mentioned! Their cycling safety booklet doesn't mention them at all. What is does show are advances stop lines to allow cyclist pull up in front of vehicles stopped at lights and then this gives cyclists the opportunity to pull off first safely to turn right. See text below from their booklet. Maybe this would be a better solution for cyclists at this junction?
Advanced Stop Lines
Advanced Stop Lines require general traffic to stop at the
first stop line (the advanced line) but permits you to stop
in front of traffic between the advanced stop line and the
main stop line. The waiting area, identified by a bicycle
symbol and usually with a different surface colour, allows
cyclists turning right to get into position while the lights
are red. You should be careful when doing this as the
lights might change.

Craftylee

I stay in the 3rd lane to go right on Parkmore road, then follow it through until the "cycle" lane is on my left. Then go straight ahead. But you have to be super careful as pretty much everyone in the left only lane also goes straight ahead. You pretty much have to keep an eye on your mirrors and make full use of the horn to warn people

joeKel73

aido76 wrote: »

The cycle lane has not changed position.

Well it has in a way, as it is now on the left of a lane that is going right... it will need to be clearly indicated that the cycle lane is for straight ahead only.

aido76 wrote: »

If you look at the junction, cyclist are not supposed to go direct from the airport rd to the city inbound dual carriageway. They are supposed to go to a box infront of the dual carriageway coming from the M6 side and wait there till they get a green light to proceed into the city.

There is nothing to say they are supposed to go into the turning box and wait for another sequence of lights. It is a good option though for slower or less confident cyclists that don't think they can progress through the junction quick enough before the motor traffic around them gets too fast.

I wouldn't go near that cycle lane anyway. With both the old and new layouts there have been cars unexpectedly cutting across it (it was previously a lot of lane jumpers). There is also no continuation of the lane on any of the roads. At the moment any cyclists going straight through on that cycle lane has cars in lanes to both the left (incorrectly) and right trying to merge across them - accident waiting to happen.

joeKel73

aido76 wrote: »

Even the buses don't use the proper lane to go straight on.

ELCAT2009 wrote: »

(& Bus eireann bus even!)

Noticed this too - there's no excuse for Bus Eireann drivers using the wrong lane - they're professional drivers and passing through the junction multiple times a day, surely they can't claim ignorance.

Craftylee

It's almost more dangerous being in the correct lane from my experience this week - perhaps the bus drivers have just given up and just reverted to using the old incorrect lane to avoid accidents

what_traffic

aido76 wrote: »

The cycle lane has not changed position. It is still to the right of the lane turning left and to the left of the lane going straight on. If you look at the junction, cyclist are not supposed to go direct from the airport rd to the city inbound dual carriageway. They are supposed to go to a box infront of the dual carriageway coming from the M6 side and wait there till they get a green light to proceed into the city. This has not changed with the new layout. The problem with the new layout is alot of people don't know what lane they should be in.
Its pretty simple. Lane 1 & 2 are left only. This works with the filter green light. Then you have the bike lane. Then lane 3 is straight on (dunnes) or right on to the dual carraigeway (driving lane) and lane 4 is right only onto dual carraigeway (overtaking lane). Council should have a notice in the local papers for the past 2-3 weeks warning people of the change and giving them a chance to familiarise themselves with it.

Agree re notice.
The cycle lane has changed position though. It used to be between lane 1/2, now it is between lane 2/3 and starts at the light junction for Parkmore.

The Box you are referring too is called a "Hook turn box" and is not used in the manner you describe. It is to be used for two traffic signal phases to make a right turn.

what_traffic

J o e wrote: »

I wouldn't go near that cycle lane anyway. With both the old and new layouts there have been cars unexpectedly cutting across it (it was previously a lot of lane jumpers). There is also no continuation of the lane on any of the roads. At the moment any cyclists going straight through on that cycle lane has cars in lanes to both the left (incorrectly) and right trying to merge across them - accident waiting to happen.

Have you cycled it J o e?

If I was cycling through the junction it does look like it is safer to take the 3rd lane and ignore the cycle lane? More room for evasion and less likely to get sandwiched.

joeKel73

what_traffic wrote: »

Have you cycled it J o e?

I haven't cycled it yet - but yes I'd just get in the middle of the correct lane and ignore the cycle lane.