New traffic layout on Parkmore Road

rabjoshu

Deleted User wrote: »

They also said a survey showed that 9/10 people who work in Parkmore drive there on their own.

That is appalling. No wonder people are whinging about other people doing exactly what they do themselves.

rabjoshu

rabjoshu wrote: »

That is appalling. No wonder people are whinging about other people doing exactly what they do themselves.

Seriously? What do you expect of people? Jobs are no longer 9-5. I have no idea what time I will be leaving the office any evening anymore.
If I'm carpooling with someone who lives close to me, timings will never suit.
I used work in the same company as a housemate, and we carpooled for a while. It didnt work. Every evening, one of us was waiting for the other to finish. I'm not talking about 5 minutes either. It could have been an hour some evenings.

The problem is not related to the volume of cars, rather the lack of infrastructure.

rabjoshu

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously? What do you expect of people? Jobs are no longer 9-5. I have no idea what time I will be leaving the office any evening anymore.
If I'm carpooling with someone who lives close to me, timings will never suit.
I used work in the same company as a housemate, and we carpooled for a while. It didnt work. Every evening, one of us was waiting for the other to finish. I'm not talking about 5 minutes either. It could have been an hour some evenings.
The problem is not related to the volume of cars, rather the lack of infrastructure.

Of course it is the volume of cars.

rabjoshu

rabjoshu wrote: »

Of course it is the volume of cars.

Actually, I agree with you. The volume of cars is the initial problem, but that is a very basic view on it.
You need to look at what causes the volume of cars? Parkmore has too many companies, with too many staff for a location with poor infrastructure.

In my opinion, the order of fixing the problem would be
1. Spread the companies around Galway - Having so many in one place is asking for trouble
2. If 1 can't be fixed, then improving the infrastructure to be able to handle this many cars
3. If you can't improve the infrastructure, work on reducing the number of cars

Put simply, without a better layout of companies in Galway, or better infrastructure, Galway is going to lose jobs, talent, and population


If any city allows one area to host such a large volume of employees, they need to have the infrastructure to provide for the volume.

rabjoshu

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, I agree with you. The volume of cars is the initial problem, but that is a very basic view on it.
You need to look at what causes the volume of cars? Parkmore has too many companies, with too many staff for a location with poor infrastructure.
In my opinion, the order of fixing the problem would be
1. Spread the companies around Galway - Having so many in one place is asking for trouble
2. If 1 can't be fixed, then improving the infrastructure to be able to handle this many cars
3. If you can't improve the infrastructure, work on reducing the number of cars
Put simply, without a better layout of companies in Galway, or better infrastructure, Galway is going to lose jobs, talent, and population
If any city allows one area to host such a large volume of employees, they need to have the infrastructure to provide for the volume.

What causes the volume of cars is the decision being made by individuals to drive to work.
You need the companies in one place, this is what attracts other medi-pharma companies and spin offs to the area.
The problem is due to planning & building regulations in Ireland that priorities motorcars over everything else. It is not sustainable continue to prioritise private car use over other options.
No. 3 is the best option. Parkmore companies should be encouraging car pooling, cycling, buses, minimal charging for parking to discourage single person car use at peak times.

johndeff2017

Lack of investment in infrastructure

No traffic lights on the tuam road exit (wtf is that all about)

Traffic light / junction not fit for purpose at Parkmore where both the lane layout and light sequencing are inadaquate

See that the Brierhill junction make the tribune today for a bus running late .....no mention of the dangerous junction layout and the hazard to cyclists.

Would have liked to see the original proposal from a few months back that was turned down because it was a danger to cyclists......and how it compares to the new layout

rabjoshu

rabjoshu wrote: »

What causes the volume of cars is the decision being made by individuals to drive to work.
You need the companies in one place, this is what attracts other medi-pharma companies and spin offs to the area.
The problem is due to planning & building regulations in Ireland that priorities motorcars over everything else. It is not sustainable continue to prioritise private car use over other options.
No. 3 is the best option. Parkmore companies should be encouraging car pooling, cycling, buses, minimal charging for parking to discourage single person car use at peak times.

Happy to agree to disagree.
Why should I have to take a bus to work? Buses, even when punctual, and comfortable, run off a timetable that rarely suit my timetable.

A major problem with public transport, comes down to where people choose to live. Lots of people working in Parkmore dont live in the city center or suburbs. Why should someone from Clonboo get a bus into Galway City, to get another out to Parkmore.

As for carpooling, a lot of people working in Parkmore have families. If I need to pick up my child from creche by a certain time, why should be allowed to dictate someone elses work pattern?

I understand you dont agree, and I dont expect to change your mind, but in this day in age, people need their own transport, and the freedom to work to their own timetable. As I mentioned above, very few people now work set hours. I work on a team of 8. It is very rare that any of us are ready to leave the office at the same time

holygoaliefc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Happy to agree to disagree.
Why should I have to take a bus to work? Buses, even when punctual, and comfortable, run off a timetable that rarely suit my timetable.

A major problem with public transport, comes down to where people choose to live. Lots of people working in Parkmore dont live in the city center or suburbs. Why should someone from Clonboo get a bus into Galway City, to get another out to Parkmore.

As for carpooling, a lot of people working in Parkmore have families. If I need to pick up my child from creche by a certain time, why should be allowed to dictate someone elses work pattern?

I understand you dont agree, and I dont expect to change your mind, but in this day in age, people need their own transport, and the freedom to work to their own timetable. As I mentioned above, very few people now work set hours. I work on a team of 8. It is very rare that any of us are ready to leave the office at the same time

So everything should change to suit you....but you shouldn't have to change anything. Is this not the reason that Parkmore is the way it is?

johndeff2017

If you go up to Kildare and to goto the intel site you can see that considerable investment has gone into the site and surrounding infrastructure.Proper access roads proximity to Public Transport Rail and Bus.

Now look at Brierhill and do a comparison......probably more people working in Brierhill.

Brierhill & Parkmore has been badly let down by the local athorities over the last 20 years with minimal investment or long term planning

schemingbohemia

Deleted User wrote: »

Happy to agree to disagree.
Why should I have to take a bus to work? Buses, even when punctual, and comfortable, run off a timetable that rarely suit my timetable.

A major problem with public transport, comes down to where people choose to live. Lots of people working in Parkmore dont live in the city center or suburbs. Why should someone from Clonboo get a bus into Galway City, to get another out to Parkmore.

As for carpooling, a lot of people working in Parkmore have families. If I need to pick up my child from creche by a certain time, why should be allowed to dictate someone elses work pattern?

I understand you dont agree, and I dont expect to change your mind, but in this day in age, people need their own transport, and the freedom to work to their own timetable. As I mentioned above, very few people now work set hours. I work on a team of 8. It is very rare that any of us are ready to leave the office at the same time

Your lack of awareness of the implications of what you're saying is breath-taking!

ronnie3585

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Your lack of awareness of the implications of what you're saying is breath-taking!

Care to explain?

schemingbohemia

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Your lack of awareness of the implications of what you're saying is breath-taking!

That's a nice balanced argument.
I'm pretty sure that I wont get people to agree with me, but at least I'm giving my opinions on the matter. If you want to debate what I'm arguing, feel free, but to just make a snide remark is not of much use, and makes me inclined to ignore your future comments

schemingbohemia

Your basic point is that everyone should live where they want, work where they want and still expect to be able to drive door to door and not somehow expect there to be traffic chaos.
What you are proposing is actually what has been done in Galway for the past 30 years and has led to the very situation that you are decrying. How can you not see that that is not a solution?

schemingbohemia

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Your basic point is that everyone should live where they want, work where they want and still expect to be able to drive door to door and not somehow expect there to be traffic chaos.
What you are proposing is actually what has been done in Galway for the past 30 years and has led to the very situation that you are decrying. How can you not see that that is not a solution?

Yes and no. I accept there will always be traffic, but I think it should be better, and people should have a choice in where they live
I gave my thoughts on what the solutions could be, in the order that I think are best

1. Companies be spread out more across the county
2. Better transport infrastructure
3. Better public transport

We're passed the possibility for solution 1 to be introduced, so I think solution 2 should be acted on.
I've been arguing why I think solution 2 is more important than solution 3
And that is because people have already decided where they would like to live. They dont have a huge say in where they can work. I accept that traffic is going to be an issue, but with better infrastructure, the issue could become a lot more manageable.
Just my thoughts on the matter. I'm not a city planner, and I dont think too many (if anyone) in this thread are either.
I've spent time reading other peoples ideas and thoughts in here. None of which have change my mind on how I think would be best to help the problem

holygoaliefc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes and no. I accept there will always be traffic, but I think it should be better, and people should have a choice in where they live
I gave my thoughts on what the solutions could be, in the order that I think are best

1. Companies be spread out more across the county
2. Better transport infrastructure
3. Better public transport

We're passed the possibility for solution 1 to be introduced, so I think solution 2 should be acted on.
I've been arguing why I think solution 2 is more important than solution 3
And that is because people have already decided where they would like to live. They dont have a huge say in where they can work. I accept that traffic is going to be an issue, but with better infrastructure, the issue could become a lot more manageable.
Just my thoughts on the matter. I'm not a city planner, and I dont think too many (if anyone) in this thread are either.
I've spent time reading other peoples ideas and thoughts in here. None of which have change my mind on how I think would be best to help the problem

Car pooling?

what_traffic

johndeff2017 wrote: »

Would have liked to see the original proposal from a few months back that was turned down because it was a danger to cyclists......and how it compares to the new layout

You are mixing up your schemes! Traffic light junction changes did not go through ANY planning. All Galway City Council. No Part 8 submissions required. Proposal that was turned down was IDA project for Parkmore West.

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

And that is because people have already decided where they would like to live. They dont have a huge say in where they can work. I accept that traffic is going to be an issue, but with better infrastructure, the issue could become a lot more manageable.

Except that studies all over the world have show that if you build better roads, alll you get is more traffic to fill the road capacity. Now we get people commuting from Mayo, build better roads they'll be coming from Sligo too.

People do have a huge say in where they work. Living rurally does restrict what jobs they're in reasonable travelling range of though - but that's part of the thing of rural living. Ideally, people who are living rurally should be making most of their living from the land, with only part time or seasonal supplementary income from off-farm jobs.

randomname2005

Infrastructure has a lot to do with it IMHO. I work in Parkmore so I can only comment on this, not the other industrial areas but from my perspective there is a lot of room for change. Whether people would use these, we may never know.

There is a bus that goes from Athenry to Galway via Parkmore once per day, and picks up in Parkmore on the way to Athenry from Galway, once per day. In an ideal world this bus drops off in PM at 7.30am and picks up at 5.40pm. That is a 10 hour workday - not suitable for most. But with the traffic in the area it is probably not feasible to have more stops in PM on the other trips between Athenry and Galway as it would take too long.

There is not a single direct bus from Loughrea to Parkmore (or there wasn't when I was contemplating moving there).

If there were more buses between PM and Athenry, Loughrea, would people take them? Possibly, but we will never know. If somebody did some research it might be feasible to set up a direct bus between PM and Athenry, and PM and Loughrea. There are certainly enough people living in these areas to use them, but timing, reliability and affordability all come into play.

An other issue is the bus service from the city to PM. Yeah, there are direct buses, but they go down every second side street. Why not have every 2nd bus being direct from Eyre Square out to PM along the dual carriageway? And why is there no direct bus from the west side to PM. A massive residential area like Knocknacarra and you need to get two buses to get to the far side of the city.

ELCAT2009

Finally got a response this morning from Galway Transportation Unit following my weekly emails to them for last few weeks with my experiences and suggestions on the Briarhill / parkmore junction. Here is the response below. Nice to see that they are taking points on board and are planning an additional straight through lane at Briarhill

I refer to your correspondence regarding morning delays on the Monivea Road towards Galway City.

Galway City Council and Galway County Council have been working on access improvements to Parkmore Industrial and Business Park. Delays were experienced by workers in this area where it was regularly taking between 1 and 2 hours to get from their work place in Parkmore to Briarhill during the evening peak. The reconfiguration of the lanes at Briarhill to meet this demand during the evening peak has had a negative effect on the morning inbound traffic on the Monivea Road. This impact is far greater than expected. We have made some changes to the Briarhill signals to improve the situation for users of the Monivea Road during the AM peak. Observations this morning (23/03/2017) show that these changes have had a positive effect. In addition we are also looking at increasing capacity for the morning inbound N17 Tuam Road traffic at the N6 Bothar na dTreabh junction so as to make provision as an alternative route for commuters.

The short term measures implemented at the Parkmore and Briarhill junctions are the first phase of an ongoing project for the area. Galway City Council together with our consultants are currently working on medium/long term measures for the area. These proposals will include an additional straight ahead lane for traffic travelling from the Monivea Road straight towards the city. The medium/long term proposals will also include improved facilities for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport.

joeKel73

Is there any survey data available for where Parkmore workers are commuting from?

BrokenArrows

The companies in Mervue and Parkmore Business Park should pool together to fund a shuttle bus service for a semi express services from Salt Hill and Westside shopping centre

Route 1
Salt Hill -> Eyre Square-> Mervue Business Park -> Parkmore Business Park

Route 2
Westside Shopping Centre -> Mervue Business Park -> Parkmore Business Park

Would only take 3 buses per route on a constant loop and it could be run on a not for profit basis so staff pay minimal fees.

My company participates in a similar scheme. Granted its a bigger business park in the UK and more people but they operate it for free. Im sure its feasible with less buses and a paid service.

BrokenArrows

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The companies in Mervue and Parkmore Business Park should pool together to fund a shuttle bus service for a semi express services from Salt Hill and Westside shopping centre

Route 1
Salt Hill -> Eyre Square-> Mervue Business Park -> Parkmore Business Park

Route 2
Westside Shopping Centre -> Mervue Business Park -> Parkmore Business Park

Would only take 3 buses per route on a constant loop and it could be run on a not for profit basis so staff pay minimal fees.

My company participates in a similar scheme. Granted its a bigger business park in the UK and more people but they operate it for free. Im sure its feasible with less buses and a paid service.

In the UK that would be a non taxable benefit in kind but AFAIK here it would be taxable.

Putting a bus road / bus gate into the back of Parkmore, racecourse and Ballybrit and extending/altering a couple of routes to run through it could help.

Mrs OBumble

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The companies in Mervue and Parkmore Business Park should pool together to fund a shuttle bus service for a semi express services from Salt Hill and Westside shopping centre

Why Mervue? No particular problems there AFAIK. Also adding it to to route takes it pretty close to where the regilar bus goes, so wouldn't add m7ch benefit.

Parkmore West has the worst problems because people cannot get out of the estate. But Galway Technology Park, Racecourse business park, Briarhill business park and Parkmore East all have issues with how busy Parkmore Rd is.

Getting enough people using a private bus service to make a difference would need co-operation from a lot of companies (some of whom are philosophically opposed to shared transport). And would need enforcement to keep non employees off the bus (or it brcomes a public service so needs to be licensed which it a whole nrw challenge).

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why Mervue? No particular problems there AFAIK. Also adding it to to route takes it pretty close to where the regilar bus goes, so wouldn't add m7ch benefit.

Parkmore West has the worst problems because people cannot get out of the estate. But Galway Technology Park, Racecourse business park, Briarhill business park and Parkmore East all have issues with how busy Parkmore Rd is.

Getting enough people using a private bus service to make a difference would need co-operation from a lot of companies (some of whom are philosophically opposed to shared transport). And would need enforcement to keep non employees off the bus (or it brcomes a public service so needs to be licensed which it a whole nrw challenge).

Central Park Business Park in Leopardstown used have a private bus like this (No idea if it still runs).
You needed to show your work badge to use it. I think it was free, and they had a number of buses running the route, so if you missed one, another was never too far away.

Being honest, if something like that was running to Knocknacarra (and other suburbs) everyday, I'd happily take it. I could see problems though, if it only ran to Eyre Square, where people had to wait for another bus to another location.

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

Putting a bus road / bus gate into the back of Parkmore, racecourse and Ballybrit and extending/altering a couple of routes to run through it could help.

Good idea. It would also benefit cyclists (and small number of pedestrians as well) from accessing Parkmore West and East from the City. Imagine it would benefit the Racecourse as well for the 1 week in the Summer when it has huge volumes visiting.

BrokenArrows

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why Mervue? No particular problems there AFAIK. .

Just a combined effort approach and that area is a good middle stopping point where there is a reasonable amount of residential properties.

Getting as many people out of their cars as possible should be the goal, not just trying to fix a single area.

Enforcement is easy, just show an employee badge. Or if you're paying for it then it should be via contactless cards provided by the companies.

rabjoshu

J o e wrote: »

Is there any survey data available for where Parkmore workers are commuting from?

Aye. Knock yourself out

Crash there this evening- don't know if it is related to the new layout.

aperture_nuig

Deleted User wrote: »

Crash there this evening- don't know if it is related to the new layout.

Wouldn't surprise me. New layout is in 3 or 4 weeks and I still see people in the wrong lane for going straight through the junction towards Dunnes.

I know signage wasn't/isn't great about the changes, but if you're commuting every day you've no excuse really.

Mrs OBumble

rabjoshu wrote: »

Aye. Knock yourself out

Thanks's fascinating - thank you.

FWIW, the same size is decent, over 2000 in total. Not random, obviously, but self-selected by responding to a Chamber of Commerce survey - so likely to be close-enough to representating the population proportions.

Interesting that the further east you go (Mervue -> Ballybrith -> Parkmore) the higher the proportion of people who live to the east side of work.

The most significant point is that a massive 75% of people working in Parkmore live east of there. Only 15% come from the west of the city, and another 5% from the rural hinterland to the west.

This makes me think that the often-mentioned direct bus from Knocknacarra is actually a red-herring: even if half of the people living in the west of the city used the bus (a very ambitious target) it would make chump-change difference to the overall traffic levels. Bus lanes that facilitate regular buses from Loughrea / Athenry / Oranmore / Tuam .. would likely make a much bigger difference.