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Obligation of the subletting tenant -HELP

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  • 28-02-2017 11:30pm
    #1
    LostGirl21
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭


    Hi all,

    I have given my month notice to my landlord I.e my flat mate. I am subletting they are the main tenant. I have no written agreement with them just some email about rent and the deposit. Now They are telling me i need to co-ordinate and organise a replacement sub letter and if this does not happen or no replacement is found in time they will withhold my deposit? I can't find any info online and I just so panicked to be honest. Is this legal?


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    #2
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Who advertised / introduced you to the flat?
    Was it the previous tenant or the person subletting to you?
    Was there any mention of this before now?


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    #3
    LostGirl21
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭LostGirl21


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Who advertised / introduced you to the flat?
    Was it the previous tenant or the person subletting to you?
    Was there any mention of this before now?
    I saw an ad through my college accommodation office, I'm a working college professional.
    No mention never.


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    #4
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Sounds like you are a licensee rather than a tenant so no tenants protection. Did you agree to a term/notice period?

    Advertise in the same place you saw the ad, accomadation is difficult to find near colleges so you might find someone quickly.


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    #5
    LostGirl21
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭LostGirl21


    davo10 wrote: »
    Sounds like you are a licensee rather than a tenant so no tenants protection. Did you agree to a term/notice period?

    Advertise in the same place you saw the ad, accomadation is difficult to find near colleges so you might find someone quickly.
    No I decided to give a months notice as a courtesy. Am I obliged to find someone still?


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    #6
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    LostGirl21 wrote: »
    No I decided to give a months notice as a courtesy. Am I obliged to find someone still?

    Licensee is a grey area because you don't have RTA protection so you have few rights. Just put up an ad, you can argue the toss and maybe make a court claim to try and get your deposit but it would probably be easier and quicker to get another tenant.


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    #7
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    LostGirl21 wrote: »
    No I decided to give a months notice as a courtesy. Am I obliged to find someone still?

    No not unless you are contracted to do so. You do have rights, just you cannot use the RTB if you sublet, but small claims court is available if he withholds your deposit.


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    #8
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,960 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Just find someone to replace you - it won't be difficult in the current market. Stop worrying about the legals, and focus on the pragmatics of the situation.


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    #9
    LostGirl21
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭LostGirl21


    Thanks everyone. They are now telling me I need to split TV bills and such but I have no name on any of these contracts again. And the new tenant can pick them up..?


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    #10
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,662 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    There is no legal agreement - they are in no position to push you about. Chances are the landlord doesn't even know they have sublet.

    Here is the practical situation...

    From what you are saying (one side of the story); the other tenant is messing you about by 'withholding your deposit'. I would tell them to f-off, and stay rent free to the value of the deposit, and longer if you cant find anywhere; as they can do f-all about it.

    Lets be clear here - your landlord is the person who owns the place, not your flatmate who is trying to fleece you of a few quid.


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    #11
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    There is no legal agreement - they are in no position to push you about. Chances are the landlord doesn't even know they have sublet.

    Here is the practical situation...

    From what you are saying (one side of the story); the other tenant is messing you about by 'withholding your deposit'. I would tell them to f-off, and stay rent free to the value of the deposit, and longer if you cant find anywhere; as they can do f-all about it.

    Lets be clear here - your landlord is the person who owns the place, not your flatmate who is trying to fleece you of a few quid.

    Actually pretty much every point in your post is wrong. The tenant can sublet with the LL's consent, if the original tenant is the named tenant on the lease, with permission he/she can rent the room out. Most LLs don't care if the original tenant sublets when another tenant moves out, as long as the rent is paid on time.

    As a licensee the op has virtually no tenancy rights, the other tenant can pretty much kick the op out the door with little or no notice. He/she can simply change the front door lock if the op stops paying rent and the op will not be able to use the RTB. Effectively the op would have to go to court to get her money back.

    Op, paying your share of utilities is fair in all rental situations, if you weren't told it was included in the rent you paid, then if you used electricity/broadband/phone/tv, your portion of the usage should be paid by you.


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    #12
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,662 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    davo10 wrote: »
    Actually pretty much every point in your post is wrong. The tenant can sublet with the LL's consent, if the original tenant is the named tenant on the lease, with permission he/she can rent the room out. Most LLs don't care if the original tenant sublets when another tenant moves out, as long as the rent is paid on time.

    As a licensee the op has virtually no tenancy rights, the other tenant can pretty much kick the op out the door with little or no notice. He/she can simply change the front door lock if the op stops paying rent and the op will not be able to use the RTB. Effectively the op would have to go to court to get her money back.

    Op, paying your share of utilities is fair in all rental situations, if you weren't told it was included in the rent you paid, then if you used electricity/broadband/phone/tv, your portion of the usage should be paid by you.


    As you say, that assumes the LL knows about it.

    And I am saying that 99.9% of LLs will not be ok with sublets. They want to know who is living in the property they own.

    Second, 99.9% of LLs will not be ok the tenants randomly changing the locks in the property.

    You are completely right about utility bills - with the caveat that it should be very clear what the utility bills are, and what a fair split is.


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    #13
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    davo10 wrote: »
    Actually pretty much every point in your post is wrong. The tenant can sublet with the LL's consent, if the original tenant is the named tenant on the lease, with permission he/she can rent the room out. Most LLs don't care if the original tenant sublets when another tenant moves out, as long as the rent is paid on time.

    As a licensee the op has virtually no tenancy rights, the other tenant can pretty much kick the op out the door with little or no notice. He/she can simply change the front door lock if the op stops paying rent and the op will not be able to use the RTB. Effectively the op would have to go to court to get her money back.

    Op, paying your share of utilities is fair in all rental situations, if you weren't told it was included in the rent you paid, then if you used electricity/broadband/phone/tv, your portion of the usage should be paid by you.

    In reality the flatmate is not going to kick her out on her arse and is quite clearly trying to make a few bob out of her or save himself a bit of effort. If he/she is the one who got her in then he/she is responsible for replacing her. If she hasn't been paying utilities as she goes along then it is completely fair to assume that it is either paid for by the rent or she is being fleeced. She is fully entitled to up and leave and if he won't return her deposit then she should stay to the value of the deposit and leave.


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    #14
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    In reality the flatmate is not going to kick her out on her arse and is quite clearly trying to make a few bob out of her or save himself a bit of effort. If he/she is the one who got her in then he/she is responsible for replacing her. If she hasn't been paying utilities as she goes along then it is completely fair to assume that it is either paid for by the rent or she is being fleeced. She is fully entitled to up and leave and if he won't return her deposit then she should stay to the value of the deposit and leave.

    Ya I agree, licencee arrangements are pretty much unregulated and the licensee is at the mercy of the LL/lease holder. I think it's a crap thing to do, the sub letter wants it both ways and the op should be able to walk away with the deposit immediately in the same way that the lease holder can ask the licensee to leave without notice.

    However, as mrs o'bumble said in an earlier post, the practice thing to do is to try and find a new renter asap and get her deposit back. Otherwise the only recourse is to go legal.


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    #15
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,662 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    davo10 wrote: »
    Ya I agree, licencee arrangements are pretty much unregulated and the licensee is at the mercy of the LL/lease holder. I think it's a crap thing to do, the sub letter wants it both ways and the op should be able to walk away with the deposit immediately in the same way that the lease holder can ask the licensee to leave without notice.

    However, as mrs o'bumble said in an earlier post, the practice thing to do is to try and find a new renter asap and get her deposit back. Otherwise the only recourse is to go legal.

    So why is it not an option to sit tight, and say you wont give me back the deposit, then I wont pay rent.....

    Whats the tenant going to do about it? Change the locks? I doubt it....

    You go legal - what happens? months and months of nothing, and then more nothing, that probably costs more than the deposit in the first place.


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    #16
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    As you say, that assumes the LL knows about it.

    And I am saying that 99.9% of LLs will not be ok with sublets. They want to know who is living in the property they own.

    Second, 99.9% of LLs will not be ok the tenants randomly changing the locks in the property.

    You are completely right about utility bills - with the caveat that it should be very clear what the utility bills are, and what a fair split is.

    Tenants/ licencees come and go all the time, particularly in student accomadation. As long as the lease holder is still there and rent is paid, the LL don't care about how people sharing with the main tenant come and go.

    I have rented properties, I know the name of the person whose name is on the lease, I don't know who the other people in the property are, they could be girlfriends/boyfriends/friends etc. As long as the rent is paid and the property is in good condition when inspected, I don't care.


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    #17
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,960 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Whats the tenant going to do about it? Change the locks? I doubt it....

    Ahh, get their mate who's handy with tools to change the locks (trust me, it's not difficult to do). And put all the OP's stuff in black bags - if they're lucky inside the door with a text message saying "collect it at XXX", or if they're unlucky just dump it outside.

    (This is irrelevant anyways: the OP says they have already given notice. They did not say that the flatmate is kicking them out. So they don't want to stay.)




    Seriously OP, how did you ever think you would not have to pay your share of the bills??? Unless someone specifically says "bills included", then of course they need to be split. Your flatmate is very likely NOT pulling a fast one here, provided they are willing to show you the bills and how the split is worked out - it should be on the proportion of the time you were there.

    I think that having you find the replacement youself is a crazy idea, and if I was your flatmate, no way would I let you choose who s/he is goign to be living with. But lots of places in this country seem to work that way: think about who found you the place - was it your housemate, or someone else who's now moved out.


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    #18
    LostGirl21
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭LostGirl21


    LostGirl21 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone. They are now telling me I need to split TV bills and such but I have no name on any of these contracts again. And the new tenant can pick them up..?

    I had been paying for bills separate to rent. But they is suggesting I have to fork out for my half of the full year contract.


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    #19
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    How long are you there? What was agreed when you moved in as to how long you would be there at a minimum? If you've stayed longer than the minimum I'd say not your problem they can find a new tenant themselves, if shorter then you should find them. If you've been paying for TV every month to now then you're ok it's the next tenants problem.

    Why are you moving? If you pay rent weekly you give a weeks notice if you pay monthly then a month. Be nice about it, tidy your room and help tidy the house so you give a good impression to people looking at the place.


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    #20
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    LostGirl21 wrote: »
    I had been paying for bills separate to rent. But they is suggesting I have to fork out for my half of the full year contract.

    Hold the phone, you agreed to a 12 month lease? I thought you said there was no agreement? Agreements can be verbal/electronic/written.


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    #21
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    davo10 wrote: »
    Hold the phone, you agreed to a 12 month lease? I thought you said there was no agreement? Agreements can be verbal/electronic/written.

    On the bills I suspect - probably signed up for a years broadband and ESB and gas etc as they are cheaper on the fixed 12 month contracts


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    #22
    LostGirl21
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭LostGirl21


    Browney7 wrote: »
    davo10 wrote: »
    Hold the phone, you agreed to a 12 month lease? I thought you said there was no agreement? Agreements can be verbal/electronic/written.

    On the bills I suspect - probably signed up for a years broadband and ESB and gas etc as they are cheaper on the fixed 12 month contracts

    Yes exactly they are looking for closure on the bills. Which I would think is the responsibility of the new tenant.


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    #23
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    LostGirl21 wrote: »
    Yes exactly they are looking for closure on the bills. Which I would think is the responsibility of the new tenant.

    I'd suggest taking the meter readings on the day you move out and allocate it pro rata is the fairest - they're staying in the property aren't they so they'll keep the bills.


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