Mindhunter [Netflix]

cdgalwegian

silverharp wrote: »

Im liking the second series but they should dump the whole family drama especially with the kid, not believable and totally contrived, a jarringly weak part of an otherwise solid show

Yeah- it has the feel of trying to add depth to the character in a subject-matter related way that seems a bit forced. A backstory increasing a character's conflict is one thing, but this seems artificially introduced, in order to reflect the nature/nurture theme explored in the show.

I know some people have dropped out of the show in the second series, but it still is fascinating. Obviously, 'serial killers'- a neologism within the show- have existed for a long time, but there is an interesting evolving dynamic at play. As society has become more complex, and more atomistic, serial killers would seem to have a much easier chance of getting away with their activities than they would in smaller, more tight-knit communities. With advancing technology and procedures of recognition, it should be easier to find them; hence 'pattern killers', the original moniker. But what the series shows is that when communication is poor, thanks to racism or other barriers to communication (or even caring), there is more freedom for them to roam. This nascent evolving dynamic is very interestingly portrayed here.

silverharp

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Yeah- it has the feel of trying to add depth to the character in a subject-matter related way that seems a bit forced. A backstory increasing a character's conflict is one thing, but this seems artificially introduced, in order to reflect the nature/nurture theme explored in the show.

I know some people have dropped out of the show in the second series, but it still is fascinating. Obviously, 'serial killers'- a neologism within the show- have existed for a long time, but there is an interesting evolving dynamic at play. As society has become more complex, and more atomistic, serial killers would seem to have a much easier chance of getting away with their activities than they would in smaller, more tight-knit communities. With advancing technology and procedures of recognition, it should be easier to find them; hence 'pattern killers', the original moniker. But what the series shows is that when communication is poor, thanks to racism or other barriers to communication (or even caring), there is more freedom for them to roam. This nascent evolving dynamic is very interestingly portrayed here.

some interesting elements all right, the clash of police cultures, the local politics getting in the way.I did like when the boy's shrink and social worker's interest perk up after they found out what the father's job was whereas he is just so matter of fact about it.

cdgalwegian

Finished season 2. Can't shake the feeling of frustration towards the end, but then that's one of the two main elements of the seasons; the changing of policing ways by using apparently unorthodox methods, and the barriers set up against them - bureacracy, politics, racism and plain old inertia. The first season dealt mainly with the former element, the second with the latter, so inevitably the second season was going to slow the pace somewhat, though the last 2 episodes picks up the pace, leading to a well-rounded finale.
It's unshouty unpreachy approach was as methodical as the vanguards of profiling were: not everyone's cup of tea, but a thoughtful cuppa for me.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun

silverharp wrote: »

Im liking the second series but they should dump the whole family drama especially with the kid, not believable and totally contrived, a jarringly weak part of an otherwise solid show

I kind of thought the same but got some recourse from discovering this storyline is also based on a true events. The real child's name is Noah Alba. And while it may seem a little contrived being in Mindhunter, it adds another layer of character to Tench as he's learning about psychopaths and he's wrestling the notion that maybe his son is.

It's quite brilliant really because we're the viewers and we see everything and the writers built up this amazing tension because we know Tench is actually experiencing this domestic issue that's so close to the bone. There is one scene where Tench is in a conversation with the others about the murders but whatever Tench is saying, he's getting a different perspective because of his son. So, in the room with other detectives, he's talking about murderers in general but as the audience we can kind of deduce that he was actually talking about his son.

Also, just found out after I finshed Season 2 that Tench's wife is the Tim's new love interest/new girl in The Office. Is that weird? Did anyone else spot this? For moment I thought it wad the actress that plays the prosecuter in the OJ Simpson drama on Netflix.

EL_Loco

Thing with the child is awfully done, music gets "spooky", like they're dealing with a demon child or something. Way over the top. Demerit.

Holden's subtly being annoying, but charming to a degree, is out the window. Over egged the annoying factor. I think you could still have the plot results the same but they seem to have caricatured him too much. Stripped him of all likability. Demerit.

Neutral to Wendy's story. No complaints.

Like a lot of these series, season 1 has a solid premise and probably needs to impress at script level to even get made. A season 2 is a "oh, season 1 did well better keep the show on the road". I find it a weaker season overall, still enjoyed it but a definite dip for me at least.

Season 1: 8/10
Season 2: 5/10

castletownman

Just finished series two tonight, and I didn't notice any drop off in quality. Gripping viewing with some moments of dark humour interspersed. It has been mentioned before, but the casting of the murderers is incredible.

Really enjoyed the "chase" of the Atlanta killer, and genuinely cheered when they got Wayne on the bridge (having read about the real-life story on wiki)

Could take and leave the Wendy love story-didn't really add anything to the whole show. Bill's family situation was difficult but the conclusion was sign-posted a mile off.

I usually find crime shows "samey", but this is on another stratosphere IMO. Great show.

Heckler

Holt McCallany (Bill Tench) is on Ray D'arcys TV show tomorrow night. Going by Ray mentioning it today I'd doubt he's seen it. Its on too late for him I think. Or too scary.

cdgalwegian

Can't find it mentioned here or elsewhere, but there's a programme about Kemper on Sky Crime called "Kemper on Kemper: Inside the Mind of a Serial Killer."

0gac3yjefb5sv7

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Can't find it mentioned here or elsewhere, but there's a programme about Kemper on Sky Crime called "Kemper on Kemper: Inside the Mind of a Serial Killer."

Is it possible to get it online?

Mantis Toboggan

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is it possible to get it online?

Yes, now tv.

Slydice

Seems to be available on Amazon

WhymeWhynot

Love the show but just cannot take BTK seriously due to how he ended up being caught, it was like something from a sitcom. Wayne Williams is guilty of most of the murders imo but questions have been raised down through the years over some of the murders being the work of other people but lumped in with the series of Atlanta killings.

Poor Bill needs the valium, not Holden. The poor man is on the verge of a heart attack which may happen in S3.

Don't care for the lesbian love affair but I understand how the show needs to highlight the strain the work they do has on their private lives.

WhymeWhynot

Heckler wrote: »

Holt McCallany (Bill Tench) is on Ray D'arcys TV show tomorrow night. Going by Ray mentioning it today I'd doubt he's seen it. Its on too late for him I think. Or too scary.

Bill smokes too much, did Ray give him a lecture on it? Tell him to take up porridge and running.

Skerries

I want to know what happened the cat from the first season

cdgalwegian

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Can't find it mentioned here or elsewhere, but there's a programme about Kemper on Sky Crime called "Kemper on Kemper: Inside the Mind of a Serial Killer."

Had to switch it off after 15 mins. A load of talking heads commenting on what Kemper confessed in interviews and previous documentaries, followed by 10 second snippets of him saying those exact words. Awful format, especially considering the footage they have. If they'd just aired the actual interviews in full with little to no commentary it would have been brilliant.

Pretty inexcusable to have so little airtime of Kemper himself with all that footage at your disposal, and then pad the whole thing out with "coming up on 'Kemper on Kemper'......." and soundbites of bits to come in the same documentary!

Seth Brundle

WhymeWhynot wrote: »

Don't care for the lesbian love affair but I understand how the show needs to highlight the strain the work they do has on their private lives.

My take on it was that it was showing that she, as head of an office that researched perverted and criminal behaviour was involved in what US law had decided was illegal because of its pervertedness.

ohnonotgmail

Seth Brundle wrote: »

My take on it was that it was showing that she, as head of an office that researched perverted and criminal behaviour was involved in what US law had decided was illegal because of its pervertedness.

It was not illegal to be a lesbian in the US at the time the show is set. I dont think it was ever illegal in the US, the same as it was never illegal here or in the UK.

IAMAMORON

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It was not illegal to be a lesbian in the US at the time the show is set. I dont think it was ever illegal in the US, the same as it was never illegal here or in the UK.

That is probably true. But any form of homosexuality in government jobs would have received less tolerance. Your talking about a time when Women had terrible workers rights and in many cases homosexual practices may not have been tolerated. The show is definitely conveying this with her lifestyle plot.

In particular she was working in behavioural sciences, who knows what type of prejudices existed at the time in the FBI? Any form of alternative or " deviant behaviours " may not have been seen as being ethical for an investigator. We know that is rubbish, but in the 60's and 70's of conservative America it could well have been an issue.

pixelburp

The reaction of Greg to Wendy's reveal of her romantic history to a gay serial killer - that he thought it a fake story of sexual deviance to get the killer to open up - was summary enough of the kind of workplace and social prejudices someone like her had to live with in that era. Gay people might not have been illegal as such (though I'm sure there were "sodomy" laws knocking around the Red States), but they also simply didn't exist in the minds of people like Greg; and if they did, they were deviant serial killers that acted as confirmation bias for an unspoken belief that there was something inherently "wrong" with folk like Wendy.

Heck, nevermind homosexuality, Season 2 made it quite clear that the FBI was a golf, cigar & brandy fuelled "Boy's Club", where success and momentum required exactly the kind of brown nosing you could see left Tench uncomfortable (even if he indulged a bit too much than he'd care to admit). It was a regressive, exclusionary atmosphere, all the way to the top.

cdgalwegian

cdgalwegian wrote: »

Can't find it mentioned here or elsewhere, but there's a programme about Kemper on Sky Crime called "Kemper on Kemper: Inside the Mind of a Serial Killer."

Deleted User wrote: »

Had to switch it off after 15 mins. A load of talking heads commenting on what Kemper confessed in interviews and previous documentaries, followed by 10 second snippets of him saying those exact words. Awful format, especially considering the footage they have. If they'd just aired the actual interviews in full with little to no commentary it would have been brilliant.

Pretty inexcusable to have so little airtime of Kemper himself with all that footage at your disposal, and then pad the whole thing out with "coming up on 'Kemper on Kemper'......." and soundbites of bits to come in the same documentary!

Thanks for the warning; haven't got round to watching it, so I've deleted it.

It's rare that I ever switch anything off but it was seriously awful. The opening 10 minutes was like a highlights reel of the rest of the 'documentary', I thought it was an ad that I'd switched on by accident. Fast forward to the point where it starts and it shows some psychology expert saying "Kempers relationships with women were moulded by his relationship with his mother"...... Cut to Kemper with flashy visual effects and 'evil' music.... "well you could say that my relationship with my mother was the precursor for all my female relationships to come".....


Telly for idiots.

IAMAMORON

Deleted User wrote: »

It's rare that I ever switch anything off but it was seriously awful. The opening 10 minutes was like a highlights reel of the rest of the 'documentary', I thought it was an ad that I'd switched on by accident. Fast forward to the point where it starts and it shows some psychology expert saying "Kempers relationships with women were moulded by his relationship with his mother"...... Cut to Kemper with flashy visual effects and 'evil' music.... "well you could say that my relationship with my mother was the precursor for all my female relationships to come".....


Telly for idiots.

You should have hung around for the eerie music. It certainly got into me when it was decorating scenes. One of the scariest pieces of music I have heard. Haunting.

Agent Coulson

‘Mindhunter’ Future In Limbo As Netflix Series’ Cast Options Expire

It’s been five months since Season 2 of Mindhunter launched on Netflix. There has been no movement on part of the streamer regarding a potential third season of the David Fincher crime thriller drama. Last month, Netflix let the options of the cast, led by stars Holt McCallany and Jonathan Groff, lapse, further raising the possibility that we may have seen the last of Mindhunter.

That is not entirely the case, the network said to Deadline while confirming that the cast of Mindhunter have been released.

“David is focused on directing his first Netflix film Mank and on producing the second season of Love, Death and Robots,” a Netflix spokesperson said in a statement. “He may revisit Mindhunter again in the future, but in the meantime felt it wasn’t fair to the actors to hold them from seeking other work while he was exploring new work of his own.”

Fincher indeed has in the works at Netflix feature Mank, which is a personal project for him. He is directing the film, about screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz and his battles with director Orson Welles over screenplay credit for Citizen Kane, from a script written by his father Jack.

Love, Death and Robots, which Fincher executive produces, also is a long-time passion project for him, a reboot of the 1981 animated science fiction film Heavy Metal. The series is now in production on its second season.

It is unclear whether there a third season of Mindhunter is feasible. According to sources, the cast have loved working with Fincher and most if not all would be willing to come back for another season of but they may be tied to another series.

There has been chatter that Fincher was not particularly thrilled to do another lengthy location shoot (Mindhunter films in Pittsburgh) and was looking to raise the series’ production value with a bigger budget.

But I hear there has been no meaningful communication between Netflix, the director and the cast about a third season.

Mindhunter got off to an OK start. While Netflix does not release viewership information, the show’s name popped up on several binge reports. The second season had a quieter run.

Netflix bases its renewal decisions on analyzing a series’ viewership profile and awards recognition. While not a brand-defining hit, Mindhunter has developed a following, which combined with Fincher’s statute at Netflix, likely contributed to the streamer’s decision to leave the door open for a potential third season.

https://deadline.com/2020/01/mindhunter-future-in-limbo-season-3-canceled-renewed-netflix-series-cast-options-expire-1202831897/

pixelburp

Not too surprising; Fincher doesn't strike as the kind of man who digs in for the long-term. He must have dozens of scripts and ideas on his desk at any one time (heck outside of this, last time I saw him mentioned was supposed as director of a World War Z sequel!)

Snake Plisken

That's disappointing to hear, although I thought the quality of the second season drooped. Maybe Fincher will do a Movie to close out on the BTK storyline.

Degag

Disappointing. One of the better shows i've seen recently

AMGer

Snake Plisken wrote: »

That's disappointing to hear, although I thought the quality of the second season drooped. Maybe Fincher will do a Movie to close out on the BTK storyline.

BTK was always an interesting inclusion in the series, and I had wondered where they’d go with it. Given that it was some 30 odd years after the time Mindhunter was set before that case was eventually concluded. Certainly if it had played out on screen both Tench & Ford would have been retired.

horgan_p

It's funny in a very non funny way. Netflix kills shows by season 3 regularly (Marvel TV for instance) because they feel that new series brings new viewers and the existing ones wont leave.
I'd like to see the numbers leaving Netflix VS the numbers joining.

Most of the other networks drag the arse out of concepts that should have finished up way earlier (under the dome).
It would be great if a network could save this from Netflix (aint that a turn around ?) and give it a couple more seasons.

ohnonotgmail

not show related per se but if you have a channel called Pick they are showing a documentary called Kemper on Kemper at 9pm saturday. It is John Douglas (the inspiration for Holden fords character in Mindhunter) talking about the interviews he did with Kemper. Should be interesting.

callaway92

Absolutely loved both seasons.

Only thing that got to me was the Coke brand products product placement. Things like that piss me off.

Brilliant show. Season 2 was a little hit or miss at times but overall fantastic viewing.

Kemper was immense.

coolisin

Jesus I saw this thread pop up with a new post and panicked!

He plays Kemper so well, from the docs/recordings I've heard.

It really is a great show, yeah goes a little astray in the second season but overall still holds up.

Agent Coulson

David Fincher Confirms ‘Mindhunter’ Is Done At Netflix For Now

Don’t be looking for a third season of Mindhunter anytime soon. There has been speculation about a possible renewal for Netflix’s crime thriller drama since January when options on the show’s leads, Jonathan Groff, Holt McCallany, and Anna Torv, had expired and the show was put on “indefinite hold.” Now, executive producer David Fincher confirms that a third season of the show is off the radar at Netflix – at least for now.

In an interview with Vulture, Fincher said at the beginning of season 2 he “ended up looking at what was written and deciding I didn’t like any of it, so we tossed it and started over.” He then promoted AD Courtenay Miles to co-showrun, but “It’s a 90-hour workweek,” Fincher said. “It absorbs everything in your life. When I got done, I was pretty exhausted, and I said, ‘I don’t know if I have it in me right now to break season three.”

At the time the cast options expired, Fincher was focused on directing his first Netflix film Mank and on producing the second season of Love, Death and Robots, the streamer told Deadline in January.

“Listen, for the viewership that it had, it was a very expensive show,” Fincher continued. “We talked about, ‘Finish Mank and then see how you feel,’ but I honestly don’t think we’re going to be able to do it for less than I did season two. And on some level, you have to be realistic — dollars have to equal eyeballs.”

Netflix confirmed that a third season was not going to happen right now, but did not close the door completely. “Maybe in five years,” the spokesperson for the streamer told Vulture.

https://deadline.com/2020/10/david-fincher-mindhunter-done-netflix-for-now-1234602619/

RedRochey

Ah jesus, musn't be that popular so by the sounds of things

Larsso30

Gutted to read that, was looking forward to btk finally coming into play in season 3

pixelburp

Honestly this doesn't come as a surprise. Fincher seemed to have moved on to other projects and the air seemed to had left the balloon somewhat. A pity it is in limbo now but good its status is at least clarified.

Mr Crispy

Don't get your hopes up, probably just click bait, but Small Screen (never heard of them) are saying there's a glimmer of a chance we'll get season 3; "Netflix And David Fincher Are Talking".