Is air conditioning not a standard feature in cars? Should it be?

seamus

frozenfrozen wrote: »

you're right id say. I'm just on the defensive because I can't believe people here don't find A/C useful. I'd have A/C over a radio

I don't think anyone's saying they don't find it useful, just pointing out that it's far from essential. Irish people drove cars for decades without A/C and got on just fine.

Even on a morning it only saves you a couple of minutes. Far from "essential".

Henry Ford III

I'd say a/c is highly desirable but not absolutely essential. It only really became widely available on mass market models in the naughties.

We survived well enough before that iirc.

frozenfrozen

seamus wrote: »

I don't think anyone's saying they don't find it useful, just pointing out that it's far from essential. Irish people drove cars for decades without A/C and got on just fine.

Even on a morning it only saves you a couple of minutes. Far from "essential".

I understand your perspective...

But I replied to the thread after these posts:

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Can you not just wind down the window and stick the foot down a bit on the 6 or so days a year this will be an issue?

acequion wrote: »

While I would still maintain that it should be standard on all cars, I still used it very rarely in the last car as it hardly ever gets hot enough in this country.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Bluetooth should be standard equipment before aircon imo .

biko wrote: »

Heated seats any day before air con

Mooooo wrote: »

While not cooling the car every car still comes with heater to demist windscreens etc. Does the aircon do it that much faster?

Not looking to get into a back and forth with anyone I've multi-quoted but as I originally posted, for me those 5 minutes at the start of every journey during the cold months is worth a lot.

Everyone is totally entitled to choose to not have A/C but for me it would be listed as essential in my next car purchase.


If you turn on the demister the A/C will turn on. So i'd say there could be a few people who think they don't utilise A/c when in fact they may do every time they get into the car during winter.

JohnBoy26

TimeToShine wrote: »

If commuting it is essential for visibility. The mornings would be a nightmare otherwise.

One of those dehumidifiers will solve that problem.

JoeA3

It's essential. I cannot believe a 2014 car exists that does not have it as standard.

Climate control even better again (would not consider a car without it). Never have to fiddle with temp/fan speed from the day you drive it off the forecourt.

bazz26

Reality is cars are fitted with equipment levels based on a price point. The more you pay for a new car the better standard equipment generally is. Some people buy base or entry level models because it suits their pockets and needs. Car manufacturers also strip certain things not seen as essential from certain models to make them cheaper and more affordable to people who don't want or care about those features.

Fitting air conditioning still costs the manufacturer money, fitting it as standard to a model just means that cost is already incorporated into the price. For example if the Note that the OP bought had a/c fitted but the car cost €400 more then the OP most probably would not have given it a second thought. The same way you pay big money for a luxury car and it comes with certain things as standard but you cannot expect those things to be standard on cheaper brands costing a fraction of the price.

Henry Ford III

JoeA3 wrote: »

...Climate control even better again (would not consider a car without it). Never have to fiddle with temp/fan speed from the day you drive it off the forecourt.

Unless the temperature you've set leaves you too hot or cold. Then you adjust it. So it's essentially the same as manual a/c just with more to go wrong.

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Unless the temperature you've set leaves you too hot or cold. Then you adjust it. So it's essentially the same as manual a/c just with more to go wrong.

Think you missed my point. With c/c you never have to adjust it. It's been set to AUTO at 22 deg all year round without ever needing to touch it since I took my car off the forecourt (and the 2 or 3 cars I've had before that were the same).

When I did have manual a/c years ago it drove me cracked... too hot/too cold, fan blowing air in the wrong directions/wrong speed, etc...

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

And it's not the same as manual a/c... there's a lot more to it than that simplistic statement.

pajo1981

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Unless the temperature you've set leaves you too hot or cold. Then you adjust it. So it's essentially the same as manual a/c just with more to go wrong.

Nope. Set and forget. Comfortable temperature will always be a comfortable temperature. Let the computers set fan rates, air blends, etc... you focus on driving the car. Wouldn't buy a car without it.

pajo1981

JoeA3 wrote: »

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

The Luddite favorite.

JohnBoy26

JoeA3 wrote: »

Think you missed my point. With c/c you never have to adjust it. It's been set to AUTO at 22 deg all year round without ever needing to touch it since I took my car off the forecourt (and the 2 or 3 cars I've had before that were the same).

When I did have manual a/c years ago it drove me cracked... too hot/too cold, fan blowing air in the wrong directions/wrong speed, etc...

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

And it's not the same as manual a/c... there's a lot more to it than that simplistic statement.

It's not that difficult to turn a knob.

frozenfrozen

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It's not that difficult to turn a knob.

now that's just being facetious.

It's of course easier to set a temperature rather than constantly moving the hot/cold mix which of course will be different as the outside temperature changes

JoeA3

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It's not that difficult to turn a knob.

So you don't understand how it works either?

I hope you enjoy twiddling with your a/c knobs. I'll get on with driving the car.

Henry Ford III

JoeA3 wrote: »

Think you missed my point. With c/c you never have to adjust it. It's been set to AUTO at 22 deg all year round without ever needing to touch it since I took my car off the forecourt (and the 2 or 3 cars I've had before that were the same).

When I did have manual a/c years ago it drove me cracked... too hot/too cold, fan blowing air in the wrong directions/wrong speed, etc...

More to go wrong? It's never gone wrong for me. By that logic, better spec keep fit windows too incase the electric ones go wrong.

And it's not the same as manual a/c... there's a lot more to it than that simplistic statement.

I don't believe I did.

On a cold morning I set my temp to max (turn the knob). I turn on the heated seats, and if there's ice I turn on the heated windscreen. When it gets too warm I adjust it.

I've had cars with auto cc. The only difference between manual a/c and full cc is the interface. Both have exactly compressors, condensors, clutches, fans, plumbing and fluid.

They are as I said essentially the same.

JohnBoy26

JoeA3 wrote: »

So you don't understand how it works either?

I hope you enjoy twiddling with your a/c knobs. I'll get on with driving the car.

I do.

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I don't believe I did.

On a cold morning I set my temp to max (turn the knob). I turn on the heated seats, and if there's ice I turn on the heated windscreen. When it gets too warm I adjust it.

I've had cars with auto cc. The only difference between manual a/c and full cc is the interface. Both have exactly compressors, condensors, clutches, fans, plumbing and fluid.

They are as I said essentially the same.

They're not. But hey, we both think we're right (again).

JohnBoy26

OSI wrote: »

Car with no A/C in winter:
Bundle into car with Michelin man style jacket, hat and scarf. Start car and turn heating to full blast. Sprain a shoulder trying to get a rag into the awkward parts of the windscreen in a vain attempt to clear it. Starting driving with the windows open in the hope the condensation will clear faster while cursing not wearing a second jacket. Arrive at work uncomfortable, freezing cold and deaf from the full blast fans and traffic noise.

Car with C/C in winter:
Waltz out to car in jeans and a t-shirt. Start engine. 30 seconds later cabin is at same temperature of the cozy house you just left. Windows are clear already because there's no moisture in the air. Arrive at work warm and comfortable.

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=212553&productId=1303295&storeId=11101

JoeA3

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=212553&productId=1303295&storeId=11101

I'd say that works a charm alright :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

OSI wrote: »

Car with no A/C in winter:
Bundle into car with Michelin man style jacket, hat and scarf. Start car and turn heating to full blast. Sprain a shoulder trying to get a rag into the awkward parts of the windscreen in a vain attempt to clear it. Starting driving with the windows open in the hope the condensation will clear faster while cursing not wearing a second jacket. Arrive at work uncomfortable, freezing cold and deaf from the full blast fans and traffic noise.

Car with C/C in winter:
Waltz out to car in jeans and a t-shirt. Start engine. 30 seconds later cabin is at same temperature of the cozy house you just left. Windows are clear already because there's no moisture in the air. Arrive at work warm and comfortable.

Whilst we all realise the differences between having a/c and not having it there's still confusion between what exactly manual a/c and cc systems do.

My point is they do exactly the same thing i.e. they use a compressor and a condensor and associated gubbins to dehumidify the air going into the cabin. They both make it comfortable inside, and they can warm passengers on a cold day and keep them cool when it's warm.

Their function and the mechanicals they use are therefore identical.

The user interface is the only difference. With manual a/c you adjust the temperature with a rotary knob. With CC you set the temperature. Crucially if you are too hot or too cold with either system you simply adjust it.

JohnBoy26

JoeA3 wrote: »

I'd say that works a charm alright :rolleyes:

It does, I have tried them. After 3 months or so they get full but all you have to do to regenerate them is to put them on the radiator overnight and away you go again.

You seem to think that they don't work, have you experience of them?

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Whilst we all realise the differences between having a/c and not having it there's still confusion between what exactly manual a/c and cc systems do.

My point is they do exactly the same thing i.e. they use a compressor and a condensor and associated gubbins to dehumidify the air going into the cabin. They both make it comfortable inside, and they can warm passengers on a cold day and keep them cool when it's warm.

Their function and the mechanicals they use are therefore identical.

The user interface is the only difference. With manual a/c you adjust the temperature with a rotary knob. With CC you set the temperature. Crucially if you are too hot or too cold with either system you simply adjust it.

Haven't you missed the main point then? I never need to adjust it, whether its the temperature, the fan speed, the air direction. Nothing. Ever. On a hot day the car auto cools. The fan speed and air direction also sets itself automatically. On a cold day the car does the opposite. Until it reaches the approx set temp. I would have thought this is simple to understand but maybe I'm not explaining it very well.

Manual aircon does not give you this functionality, no matter how you try to spin it as being "the same thing". If you're OK with having to frequently adjust all those settings, then more power to you. But to dismiss the more sophisticated system as "essentially the same thing" is quite plainly wrong.

JoeA3

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It does, I have tried them. After 3 months or so they get full but all you have to do to regenerate them is to put them on the radiator overnight and away you go again.

You seem to think that they don't work, have you experience of them?

Fortunately no, I haven't... but I'll bookmark the link in the highly unlikely event I should need to buy one lol.

pajo1981

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The user interface is the only difference. With manual a/c you adjust the temperature with a rotary knob. With CC you set the temperature. Crucially if you are too hot or too cold with either system you simply adjust it.

One is thermostatic and the other is not. You dont seem to get that.

Henry Ford III

JoeA3 wrote: »

Haven't you missed the main point then? I never need to adjust it, whether its the temperature, the fan speed, the air direction. Nothing. Ever. On a hot day the car auto cools. The fan speed and air direction also sets itself automatically. On a cold day the car does the opposite. Until it reaches the approx set temp. I would have thought this is simple to understand but maybe I'm not explaining it very well.

Manual aircon does not give you this functionality, no matter how you try to spin it as being "the same thing". If you're OK with having to frequently adjust all those settings, then more power to you. But to dismiss the more sophisticated system as "essentially the same thing" is quite plainly wrong.

I understand the point you are trying to make.

What differences (aside from the interface as I've already mentioned) are there between the 2 systems?

p.s. What happens if you are either too warm too too cold on a particular day? Do you smile and say to yourself "it's 22 degrees in here so I don't need to change a thing"?

JoeA3

pajo1981 wrote: »

One is thermostatic and the other is not. You dont seem to get that.

Yeah, exactly that. I think you've explained it better than me lol...

It's akin to modern central heating systems in your home. I've thermostats in several locations in the house which help to auto-regulate the temp / rads all over the house. Works pretty well, saves on oil too. Doesn't work as well as a car's climate system mind you, but regulating the temp in a house is a slightly bigger challenge!

pajo1981

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I understand the point you are trying to make.

What differences (aside from the interface as I've already mentioned) are there between the 2 systems?

p.s. What happens if you are either too warm too too cold on a particular day? Do you smile and say to yourself "it's 22 degrees in here so I don't need to change a thing"?

22 degrees will feel the same no matter what day it is. Unless you are sick or something you wont need to change it. The big difference is getting the car to that 22 degrees quickly. With manual controls that involves a lot of fuss, with CC you dont even think about it, you just drive.

Alun

Henry Ford III wrote: »

p.s. What happens if you are either too warm too too cold on a particular day? Do you smile and say to yourself "it's 22 degrees in here so I don't need to change a thing"?

I agree. On a miserable, cold, drizzly Irish winter's day, I often feel the need to crank up the temperature a bit to 25 or so, for a bit at least, conversely if the sun is splitting stones outside I'll wind it down to 16 or so, again for a short while. There's a psychological aspect to feeling comfortable temperature wise, in addition to the mere physical one.

pajo1981

Alun wrote: »

I agree. On a miserable, cold, drizzly Irish winter's day, I often feel the need to crank up the temperature a bit to 25 or so, for a bit at least, conversely if the sun is splitting stones outside I'll wind it down to 16 or so, again for a short while. There's a psychological aspect to feeling comfortable temperature wise, in addition to the mere physical one.

Its all in your head. I leave my 750i at 21.5 all year round.

Like a ****in boss.

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I understand the point you are trying to make.

What differences (aside from the interface as I've already mentioned) are there between the 2 systems?

p.s. What happens if you are either too warm too too cold on a particular day? Do you smile and say to yourself "it's 22 degrees in here so I don't need to change a thing"?

That has never happened. 21-22 degrees all year round seems to keep the car at a fairly optimal comfortable setting regardless of outdoor conditions. That's the whole point of the system. On a roasting day, it'll pump out cold air for the first minute or two of the drive and then auto regulate back. The opposite on a cold day...

frozenfrozen

the humidity will stay around the same in there with A/c on whether it's a cold day or a hot day so if you like 22 degrees in there while it's 0 outside you'll like it when it's 25 outside