Terrible love

Pomplamousse

The Black Oil wrote: »

Sliotar duty for the rest of the plan?

A sliotar in time saves...bandy muscles:pac:

Pomplamousse

Meno plan week 9 of 17

Monday: 6 miles easy. 9:47/mile.
Splits 9:39, 9:44, 9:48, 9:49, 9:53, 9:50
Headcold seemed to be getting worse since yesterday rather than better but other than being really sniffly I felt ok. Legs actually felt fresher than they'd felt in ages on this run. Although it didn't feel it straight after, I think last week's sports massage worked wonders.

Tuesday: 14 miles (4,3,2,1@ MP)
Avg pace 9:20/mile.

1.5 mile warmup: 10:15, 5:02
4 miles @ MP: 8:39, 8:43, 8:51, 8:47
0.25 miles rec: 2:48
3 miles @ MP: 8:43, 8:49, 8:51
0.25 miles rec: 3:01
2 miles @ MP: 8:48, 8:48
0.25 miles rec: 2:56
1 mile @ MP: 8:44
1.75 mile cooldown: 10:49, 8:01

It was long for a Tuesday run but I enjoyed this one. Was happy to hit MP, with a bit of a cushion, for all the MP miles. As usual though, I had doubts about how sustainable the pace is for a marathon. And as soon as I got to the cooldown, my legs felt completely wiped and i really struggled home. I was exhausted for the rest of the evening:o

Wednesday: 4 miles recovery. 10:47/mile.
Splits 10:55, 10:45, 10:45, 10:42.
Felt like a zombie all day in work and for the first time, I started having doubts about the meno plan and whether it's too much for me. Had the usual tired legs on this recovery run after work but my energy levels perked up again in the evening.

Thursday: 6 miles easy. 9:50/mile.
Splits 10:05, 9:44, 9:46, 9:44, 9:47, 9:56.
Felt ok for this, legs felt fresher again.

Friday: rest.

Saturday: 18 miles including 2x3 miles at MP.
Average pace 9:28/mile.
9 miles easy: 10:03, 9:51, 9:38, 9:37, 9:39, 9:53, 10:06, 9:28, 9:55
3 miles MP: 9:02, 8:33, 8:33
2 miles easy: 9:38, 9:58
3 miles MP: 8:52, 9:00, 8:41
1 mile easy: 9:52

Ran this with bf and we incorporated most of the southside DCM route into this run. Some of the MP miles were bang on and some way too fast. I'm losing the ability to pace myself correctly:( MP miles felt tough enough, particularly going up crumlin road, and legs were fairly achey in the last few miles. Another eye opener!
Took a gel at mile 10 and another at mile 15 and they went down grand so I'm happy enough now that they suit me so mightn't bother with them again until the Dublin half.

Sunday: 2 miles recovery. 10:56/mile.
Splits 10:04, 10:48.
Heavy legs but they loosened out a bit as the run went on.

Total week 9 mileage: 50 miles.
Meno's prescribed mileage: 45-55 miles.

First time ever hitting 50 miles in a week!:D
While I feel better now than I did earlier in the week, I'm still very much doubting myself and my ability to go sub-4. Sure we'll see what the next few weeks brings.

The Black Oil

First week with a double helping of MP, hitting 50 miles and 6 days of running. Did you notice anything in particular felt different about the Sunday session compared to Tues? iirc, the plan notes said not to worry if you don't quite hit MP on the long run. More learned folks and UnThought Known (has done Meno before) might be able to advise if it would be worth slowing the MP slightly. Probably not risky in long term. Mind you, mine's supposed to be 9 and I probably mostly hit 8:56/8:58 ish, with no ill effects other than a bit of tiredness. I haven't gotten too mentally glued to sub 4 yet and am taking the plan as it comes. Upcoming weeks are the crux the plan, so this week was probably step one into that hence the eye opener feeling?

Unthought Known

Well done, that's a great week!
I wouldn't worry about feeling feeling drained after that 4,3,2,1 session, it's a tough one, it's midweek and you're running on tired legs. Your paces suggest you got through that better than I did last year, but be careful about running the MP sections too fast as that will increase your recovery time. The 2x3 long run, again on tired legs, indicates that you're nailing this plan so don't let doubts creep in..
Have a look at my log for DCM last year. That was my first time using meno's plan and I think I had exactly the same doubts as you. Trust me, if you carry on hitting the MP paces, even if you feel wasted after, you will hit your goal on the day.

ariana`

Wow that was a big week and it sounds like you handled it very well. I'd be feeling very confident after a week like that if i was you. Well done on another great week

Huzzah!

A really great week. That 4,3,2,1 session MP session has my eyes watering. I'd really struggle to pick up the pace after each recovery, I think, so well done on getting it done and comfortably enough, it seems. I'm terrible for being tempted to skip cool down runs.

The exhaustion comes in peaks and troughs for me, but it's again very normal. I think if you're managing to hit the paces in your sessions and doing all the miles per the plan, you're probably well set for your sub-4 attempt.

Pomplamousse

The Black Oil wrote: »

First week with a double helping of MP, hitting 50 miles and 6 days of running. Did you notice anything in particular felt different about the Sunday session compared to Tues? iirc, the plan notes said not to worry if you don't quite hit MP on the long run. More learned folks and UnThought Known (has done Meno before) might be able to advise if it would be worth slowing the MP slightly. Probably not risky in long term. Mind you, mine's supposed to be 9 and I probably mostly hit 8:56/8:58 ish, with no ill effects other than a bit of tiredness. I haven't gotten too mentally glued to sub 4 yet and am taking the plan as it comes. Upcoming weeks are the crux the plan, so this week was probably step one into that hence the eye opener feeling?

I think Saturday's MP miles were definitely tougher than Tuesday's, makes sense I guess as I'd been on my feet for longer. You're right about slowing the MP miles, I like having a bit of a cushion (my confidence cushion) but 2x 8:33 was definitely a bit too fast:o
And you're definitely right about it now being the crux of the plan, which might have messed with my head a bit. I kind of break the plan down in my head into 4 week sections with week 4 always being a stepback week. This week was back to week 1 of 4, which are always hardest psychologically. Thanks for your comments.

Unthought Known wrote: »

Well done, that's a great week!
I wouldn't worry about feeling feeling drained after that 4,3,2,1 session, it's a tough one, it's midweek and you're running on tired legs. Your paces suggest you got through that better than I did last year, but be careful about running the MP sections too fast as that will increase your recovery time. The 2x3 long run, again on tired legs, indicates that you're nailing this plan so don't let doubts creep in..
Have a look at my log for DCM last year. That was my first time using meno's plan and I think I had exactly the same doubts as you. Trust me, if you carry on hitting the MP paces, even if you feel wasted after, you will hit your goal on the day.

Thanks, I'll try not to continue to let the doubts creep in. It's great to hear comments like yours from someone who has nailed this plan in the past, I appreciate it.
I've had a look through your log and will probably continue to weekly for the next few weeks.:D Just looking at your results of the session I've to do this week (2x4m at HMP) and it sounded like absolutely no bother to you. I'm dreading it slightly less now as I freaked out a bit when I read the 2012 graduates thread and their reports of this session (majority of people either couldn't finish it or couldn't maintain pace).

ariana` wrote: »

Wow that was a big week and it sounds like you handled it very well. I'd be feeling very confident after a week like that if i was you. Well done on another great week

Huzzah! wrote: »

A really great week. That 4,3,2,1 session MP session has my eyes watering. I'd really struggle to pick up the pace after each recovery, I think, so well done on getting it done and comfortably enough, it seems. I'm terrible for being tempted to skip cool down runs.

The exhaustion comes in peaks and troughs for me, but it's again very normal. I think if you're managing to hit the paces in your sessions and doing all the miles per the plan, you're probably well set for your sub-4 attempt.

Thanks guys. I think another reason my confidence took a hit last week was because I read a good few old DCM race reports, including my own. I have such fear of hitting the wall again during the marathon and it ran through my mind a lot during the MP sections of my Tuesday & Saturday runs:o Maybe I'm just over thinking it all at this point. The Dublin half marathon in a few weeks should give me a better idea of where I'm at.

Pomplamousse

Meno plan week 10 of 17

Monday: 6 miles easy. 10:08/mile.
Splits 10:07, 9:59, 10:11, 10:04, 10:12, 10:17.
Don't remember this at all but pace looks slower than usual.

Tuesday: 2m warmup, 4x2 miles @ HMP (0.25m rec), 2m cooldown
Average pace 9:00/mile. Aiming for 8:00/mile as HMP.

2m wu: 10:16, 10:22
2m HMP: 7:49, 7:54
0.25m rec: 2:48
2m HMP: 7:54, 7:54
0.25m rec: 3:11
2m HMP: 7:48, 7:53
0.25m rec: 3:13
2m HMP: 7:51, 7:55
0.25m rec: 2:58
2m cd: 10:23, 10:55

Meno said to do either 2min recoveries between sets or else jog 0.5 miles. I decided to do something in between and jogged 0.25m between each.
Overall I was delighted with this run. Had been dreading it but it went much better than expected. While the HMP was tough, I felt very much in control and never felt like I was just about hanging on to maintain pace. I think I needed that confidence boost. As usual though my legs were pretty achy for the cooldown miles.

Wednesday: 4 miles recovery. 11:07/mile.
Splits 10:55, 11:07, 11:04, 11:22
Got up on Wednesday morning and found the calf muscle of my right leg was really sore when walking around. Massaged it as much as I could during the day. Was conscious of it during the recovery run but it didn't seem to get worse during the run. Basically spent the entire evening foam rolling and massaging it.

Thursday: 6 miles easy. 9:53/mile.
Splits 10:08, 9:56, 9:55, 9:44, 9:46, 9:46.
Still conscious of the calf pain but it felt a bit better. More foam rolling and massaging that evening.

Friday: rest. Even more foam rolling and massaging.

Saturday: 20.2 miles. 10 miles easy, 10 miles steady, 0.2m rec.
Average pace 9:47/mile. Aiming for steady pace to be 9:30/mile.

10 miles easy: 9:52, 10:02, 10:05, 10:00, 10:08, 10:10, 10:06, 10:08, 10:16, 10:15
10 miles steady: 9:30, 9:18, 9:32, 9:19, 9:28, 9:24, 9:24, 9:37, 9:14, 9:19.
0.2m rec: 2:24 (only did this because I slightly misjudged the route and wasn't quite home yet when I reached the 20 mile point).

Ran this alone as bf was volunteering at the Dublin triathlon. Kept the first 10 miles easier than usual as I was conscious of not burning out during the last 10 miles. Overall this was tiring and legs were aching in the last few miles but the steady pace never felt very hard and my energy levels were still fine toward the end. Again, was conscious of the right calf early on but within a few miles the pain was completely gone and didn't come back. Phew!
Had a proper breakfast before this as I want to get used to doing that again. 2 slices of toast with marmalade and a banana. Got a few stomach cramps every so often in the first half of the run which worried me but they always eased off and then went completely.
Stopped around mile 11 to buy water. Took me about 2 minutes to get the flippin water bottle open. I need to start lifting weights after the marathon:o Was about to ask a stranger if they would open it for me when I suddenly got it:o Put a zero tablet in and started back running, as I wanted to double check that zero tablets agree with me when running. Went fine and was defiinitely more thirst quenching than water alone. Think I'll bring a tablet or two with me on marathon day. Also brought a few Haribo Tangfastics with me and ate them around mile 17, they went down grand too and might be useful to carry a few on marathon day in case gels become too gross.

Sunday: 2 miles recovery. 11:09/mile.
Splits 10:55, 11:23.
Heavy legs but no major twinges.

Total week 10 mileage: 51.2 miles.
Meno's prescribed mileage: 45-55 miles.

Really happy with that week and delighted to get through it after the calf issues, which had me really worried. I'm now more conscious than ever of staying on top of massaging and foam rolling.

nop98

You're doing some savage weeks! I am waaaaaay behind following logs but every now and again, I see your training updates fly by and its seriously impressive. You seem to have it just right, challenging but self-motivating. I'm really hoping you can keep the next few weeks ticking along and stay injury free, no doubt the PB(s) will come!

I take it you're doing DCM? And the HM?

eyrie

Amazing training going on here over the last few weeks Pomplamousse! I'm envious! You're deep in the stages of the Meno plan that made me look at it and think, nope, and you're flying it. I understand the feeling of having doubts but I see nothing in your training to warrant them!

The Black Oil

Your highest mileage week? Sounds great.

Unthought Known

Another great week and 2 more sessions nailed. Brilliant stuff.

Pomplamousse

nop98 wrote: »

You're doing some savage weeks! I am waaaaaay behind following logs but every now and again, I see your training updates fly by and its seriously impressive. You seem to have it just right, challenging but self-motivating. I'm really hoping you can keep the next few weeks ticking along and stay injury free, no doubt the PB(s) will come!

I take it you're doing DCM? And the HM?

Lovely to hear from you nop and thanks. Yep DCM is the target race. I'm hoping that this time I can avoid hitting the wall and get sub-4. Sure we'll see. Doesn't DCM 2016 seem like a million years ago?!:eek:
Yes, I'm also planning on running the Dublin HM although I'm completely undecided on my strategy. To race it or not to race it... My heart says race it and go for a PB (particularly after the confidence boost of Tuesday's session) but my head is crying at the thoughts of the injury risk so close to DCM. Sure I still have almost 2 weeks to come to a decision.

eyrie wrote: »

Amazing training going on here over the last few weeks Pomplamousse! I'm envious! You're deep in the stages of the Meno plan that made me look at it and think, nope, and you're flying it. I understand the feeling of having doubts but I see nothing in your training to warrant them!

Thanks eyrie. I think the meno plan is scarier than it looks. Taking it one week at a time and it's been tough but enjoyable. If I can do it, I have no doubt you would have managed it perfectly fine as you're doing just as tough sessions and mileage with your plan. Maybe for your next marathon:D

Pomplamousse

The Black Oil wrote: »

Your highest mileage week? Sounds great.

Yep highest ever mileage Tbh I think I've pretty much maxed out on the mileage now though. Maybe I'll go to 52 after the half marathon but that'll be it. Definitely not gonna get close to meno's max of 60 miles:eek:

Unthought Known wrote: »

Another great week and 2 more sessions nailed. Brilliant stuff.

Thanks a mill. Fingers crossed the legs continue to play ball over the next few weeks.

Murph_D

Great stuff going on here. That’s one of my favourite LRs, picking up to steady in the second half really let’s you know how you’re doing and you seem to be doing fine.

Not racing it? I don’t understand.

Kellygirl

I’m enjoying reading your updates and The Black Oil’s - I think I’d definitely consider Meno if I do another marathon.

Pomplamousse

Murph_D wrote: »

Great stuff going on here. That’s one of my favourite LRs, picking up to steady in the second half really let’s you know how you’re doing and you seem to be doing fine.

Not racing it? I don’t understand.

But but...what if I get injured?:o:o Am I being too cautious?:o I've been meaning to post about this in the sub-4 thread actually and see what others are planning on doing.

Kellygirl wrote: »

I’m enjoying reading your updates and The Black Oil’s - I think I’d definitely consider Meno if I do another marathon.

I really would recommend the meno plan:) It's got such a great variety of runs to keep things interesting.

The Black Oil

How were you this morning? I woke up feeling like I needed a life/full body sized foam roller.

Re the half - good prep/warm up before hand (as I'm learning now...) and recover well afterwards.

Pomplamousse

The Black Oil wrote: »

How were you this morning? I woke up feeling like I needed a life/full body sized foam roller.

Re the half - good prep/warm up before hand (as I'm learning now...) and recover well afterwards.

I was ok this morning but I did my long run a day earlier than you. This time tomorrow will be a different story as I've my 14 miler with 10@PMP tomorrow evening.
A giant foam roller would be amazing! I'm practically surgically attached these days to either a foam roller, sliotar or massage roller thing that looks like a mini plant and sits on my desk in work. Hope your leg is improving!

One of my worries about racing the half is that there isnt much chance of recovery after as I'll be launching straight back into a high mileage week. Are you doing the half?

Murph_D

Pomplamousse wrote: »

But but...what if I get injured?:o:o Am I being too cautious?:o I've been meaning to post about this in the sub-4 thread actually and see what others are planning on doing.



I really would recommend the meno plan:) It's got such a great variety of runs to keep things interesting.

The plan is designed around racing the Race Series events, so why not race them, unless you’ve a good reason to be cautious (niggle, lack of mileage etc). You seem to be going well on the plan - I always raced those tune up races and usually ran them well. I’d say go for it if the plan is going well (which it is).

The Black Oil

No, no DCHM here. Actual plants haven't done too well in our office due to the heating system.

You've been sensible with the plan and foam rolling. If you're being cautious maybe look at a moderately conservative target. See how things are after ~10 miles and pick it up for the final 3 if all is well. Another reason to race is to get a sense of your strategy and your mental game over a longer distance, might help if any tweaks are needed pre-DCM.

Pomplamousse

Murph_D wrote: »

The plan is designed around racing the Race Series events, so why not race them, unless you’ve a good reason to be cautious (niggle, lack of mileage etc). You seem to be going well on the plan - I always raced those tune up races and usually ran them well. I’d say go for it if the plan is going well (which it is).

That's true about racing it being built into the plan. I guess I'll see how I'm feeling next week then. If I'm feeling good and niggle free then I'll probably just go for it. Eek!
Thanks for your input.

Pomplamousse

The Black Oil wrote: »

No, no DCHM here. Actual plants haven't done too well in our office due to the heating system.

You've been sensible with the plan and foam rolling. If you're being cautious maybe look at a moderately conservative target. See how things are after ~10 miles and pick it up for the final 3 if all is well. Another reason to race is to get a sense of your strategy and your mental game over a longer distance, might help if any tweaks are needed pre-DCM.

That's a good idea too. I'm leaning more towards racing it but if I've any niggles next week I could maybe start with the 1:50 pacers and push on later if I'm feeling good. It's been so long since I've done any races (damn fall back in March scuppered that) that my race mental game probably needs a good work out!
Thanks!

Unthought Known

Pomplamousse wrote: »

That's a good idea too. I'm leaning more towards racing it but if I've any niggles next week I could maybe start with the 1:50 pacers and push on later if I'm feeling good. It's been so long since I've done any races (damn fall back in March scuppered that) that my race mental game probably needs a good work out!
Thanks!

I agree with Murph_D, race it. The plan gives you the option of either moving or scrapping the following Wednesday session.
I wouldn't get too hung up on missing a 14m with 10 @ MP if you've raced the half, which will give you a great indicator of how you're doing.

nop98

Pomplamousse wrote: »

Lovely to hear from you nop and thanks. Yep DCM is the target race. I'm hoping that this time I can avoid hitting the wall and get sub-4. Sure we'll see. Doesn't DCM 2016 seem like a million years ago?!:eek:
Yes, I'm also planning on running the Dublin HM although I'm completely undecided on my strategy. To race it or not to race it... My heart says race it and go for a PB (particularly after the confidence boost of Tuesday's session) but my head is crying at the thoughts of the injury risk so close to DCM. Sure I still have almost 2 weeks to come to a decision.

Very best of luck with DCM take-2. You deserve to meet your goals this time around. No doubt you won't be shaking your head as you come through Clonskeagh this time!

Yes, DCM16, when I was writing more post on boards per week then I do per year now, seems a long time ago - but I am still very proud of all the graduates of that year. I recently read through some of the reports of the day again, awesomeness.

Pomplamousse wrote: »

That's a good idea too. I'm leaning more towards racing it but if I've any niggles next week I could maybe start with the 1:50 pacers and push on later if I'm feeling good. It's been so long since I've done any races (damn fall back in March scuppered that) that my race mental game probably needs a good work out!
Thanks!

Unthought Known wrote: »

I agree with Murph_D, race it. The plan gives you the option of either moving or scrapping the following Wednesday session.
I wouldn't get too hung up on missing a 14m with 10 @ MP if you've raced the half, which will give you a great indicator of how you're doing.

I would agree too - race it. From memory, your HM PB is somewhere around 1h47? Then you could indeed start conservatively, behind the 1h50s, and if you feel good about halfway, push on (I might even see you en route, as that sounds pretty much like my plans for the HM, too!). If it isn't your day, you'll still have a good 13M workout and can slot back into next week's training.

Pomplamousse

Thanks all, I've decided to take all your advice and race the half marathon. Well I might still start with the 1:50 pacers but I'll try push on early enough, assuming the 1:50 pace feels comfortable-ish. Gonna try and aim for 8 minute miles so 1:45. Not sure how feasible that is so there's a chance I'll crash and burn but once I get a PB I'll be happy.

nop98 wrote: »

I would agree too - race it. From memory, your HM PB is somewhere around 1h47? Then you could indeed start conservatively, behind the 1h50s, and if you feel good about halfway, push on (I might even see you en route, as that sounds pretty much like my plans for the HM, too!). If it isn't your day, you'll still have a good 13M workout and can slot back into next week's training.

Thanks nop. PB is 1:48:23 but it is 1.5 years old so I'd like to think I can do better by now. I'll look out for you on Saturday:)

Pomplamousse

Meno plan week 11 of 17

Monday: 6 miles easy. 9:57/mile.
Splits 9:55, 9:57, 9:57, 9:57, 9:53, 10:03.

Tuesday: 2m warmup, 10m @ PMP, 2m cooldown
Average pace 9:25/mile. Aiming for 9:00/mile as PMP.

2m wu: 10:29, 10:24
10m@ PMP: 8:44, 8:58, 8:56, 8:53, 8:54, 8:58, 9:00, 8:52, 8:57, 8:50
2m cd: 10:42, 11:14

Pretty happy with this one. Started off the first MP mile too fast so consciously slowed it down once I saw that mile split. Second half was tougher as I was against the wind. Legs were getting a bit tired and sore by the end but energy levels were grand.

Wednesday: 4 miles recovery. 11:00/mile.
Splits 10:59, 10:48, 11:06, 11:06
The usual slow slog.

Thursday: 6 miles easy. 9:51/mile.
Splits 9:57, 9:43, 9:37, 9:54, 9:58, 9:57

Friday: rest.

Saturday: (2m easy, 2m PMP)x4, 2m easy
Average pace 9:27/mile. Aiming for easy pace to be approx 10 minute miles and for PMP to be 9 minute miles.

Splits
1: 9:55, 10:04, 8:44, 8:46
2: 9:39, 9:48, 8:59, 8:58
3: 9:51, 10:04, 8:56, 8:39
4: 9:55, 9:58, 8:56, 8:59
2m easy: 9:52, 9:52.

Ran this alone as bf's PMP is faster than mine so it doesn't make sense to do our long runs together any more. I didn't enjoy this run as much as I'd enjoyed the long runs of the previous few weeks. This felt more of a struggle. First MP section felt great and I struggled to slow down but that didn't last, by the last few MP miles I felt like I should've been faster for the effort I was putting in. Didn't help that I had a blister on the side of my big toe that was hurting every so often. Weird as I never get blisters, but seemed to develop this during one of my weekday runs Went out for lunch after this run and it was killing me just walking but bought some Compeed and it seemed to work a treat.
Took 500ml water with a zero tablet, 1 gel and some jellies during this run. Bought a new box of gels online so just wanted to try one out before the half marathon next week to make sure they're not poison. Went down fine although I got a stitch for a few minutes not long after taking it, not sure if the two were related.

Sunday: 2 miles recovery. 11:01/mile.
Splits 10:56, 11:07.
Heavy legs but no major twinges.

Total week 11 mileage: 50 miles.
Meno's prescribed mileage: 45-55 miles.

Happy with that overall. Glad that next week is a stepback week though. It comes at a good time as I've a horrible week coming up next week, a few real life things that I've been dreading for a while are all coming up at once. Ever wish you could just fast forward time?! :( I won't be able to do the session run (10 miles easy with strides) on Tuesday or Wednesday so I'll have to get it done on Monday if it all. Hopefully I'll get through the week relatively unscathed and I can give the half marathon all I've got next Saturday.

Huzzah!

Good luck on Saturday! Hope you get the run you deserve after the disappointment of missing out on Wexford and all the training you've put in.

Pomplamousse

Huzzah! wrote: »

Good luck on Saturday! Hope you get the run you deserve after the disappointment of missing out on Wexford and all the training you've put in.

Thanks a mill! Just another 36 or so hours to get through without falling over :pac:

eyrie

Good luck in the half tomorrow! Hope it goes well