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Hi Pomplamousse,
Any update? How are you going?
Hey, I'm kind of in limbo at the moment unfortunately. I'm into week 3 of being injured now and have been seeing the physio twice a week. I didn't run at all for weeks 1 and 2. The physio has been doing a lot of massaging and dry needling of the calf. He gave me stretches and strengthening exercises that I've been doing multiple times daily. I had 6 days of complete rest (other than my 10 minute cycle commutes which probably doesn't really count as exercise). Then got access to a turbo trainer so I've been cycling most days since then. So any time I'm meant to run I cycle instead, for a similar amount of time and intensity as if I'd been running, in an effort to maintain my fitness. It's so unbelievably boring and painful on the ass but better than sitting around on my ass doing nothing I guess.
I haven't felt the pain when walking since last Wednesday. So at the physio on Friday he gave me a few milestones to attempt to reach. Milestone 1 was a 3 hour hike which I did on Sunday. Milestone 2 was a (1 min walk, 1 min jog)x5 on grass, which I did yesterday, and milestone 3 was a 10 minute jog on grass which I did today. He said to stop if I felt pain but I definitely didn't feel that original pain that was causing me to limp 2 weeks ago. Having said that, my right leg definitely didn't feel the same as the left leg. It's not painful, maybe muscle tightness or something, or maybe it's just unhappy about all the poking and prodding it's had lately.
So I'm heading back to the physio tomorrow and will see what he says. I asked him about the marathon last Friday and he said I've about a 50% chance of being able to do the marathon without the pain reoccurring. I'm hoping that percentage has improved now that I've passed all 3 of his milestones.
I really don't know where all this leaves me though. It feels like so so long ago that I did a proper run (September 29th) that I can't imagine just rocking up on marathon day and running 26.2 miles. The physio said that my lack of mileage now isn't a huge deal though as I had already done a few long runs (3x20 milers and 4x18 milers). So he thinks I'm in a much better position than say if I hadn't yet reached 20 miles in training before getting injured. And he says that all my turbo training is really important and will stand to me.
But then if I do run it, I have no idea what time I should go for
(Having said all that, my brother ran DCM in 2011 in 3hrs 20 minutes, after having not run at all during the final 4 weeks of "training", due to injury. He was debating whether or not to run it the night before. He could just be a total freak though:D)
Overall I'm feeling pretty deflated about the whole thing. I put my heart and soul into training for this particular marathon, for a 4hr target. It's been something to really focus on in what had been a stressful year for me, and I will be devastated if I cant run it. A lot of people just do not get why I would be upset about this. I live along the marathon route and seeing the route signs begin to appear last week did not help:o:o
Anyway, sorry for my very long ranty reply there Kellygirl. But thanks for asking anyway. Fingers crossed for the next few days going well. I just want to know if I can attempt it or not as I hate this being in limbo.
Oh and delighted that your calf has improved and that you've been given the green light to run it, you must be very relieved:)0 -
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Oh God. Well firstly I totally get you being devastated if you can run it. This time last year when all my training was finished I was diagnosed with gallbladder issues that looked like would stop me running it and I was devastated.
Secondly, if you do run it then you have a huge amount of training behind you - my max runs are 17.5 and 19 miles but I’ve given up on the time and just going to enjoy the day. I might have the green light but I wouldn’t trust the leg entirely.
It’s more like you’ve had a long taper but you may need to wake the legs up a bit in the next few days. Mine were surprisingly sluggish on my test run yesterday.
If you go for it would you consider forgetting the time and all going well do another one in a couple of months to use the fitness you have built up? Assuming you are healthy enough and not doing damage on the day then I think one of the most important things about DCM is enjoying the day and the support / the music / the crowds and getting to finish line and getting your medal and finishers top.
You could ask the physio about doing something similar to me yesterday and doing a test run of say 10 miles and make your decision after that?
Thanks kellygirl. Well I asked the physio yesterday and he said doing a long run now would be a bad idea as I'd be going straight from 1% to 2000% and risk aggravating the leg before the marathon. Instead he wants me to run/walk little but often over the next week to bring the leg back to life. So maybe 2 short runs a day but all on grass. So today I did 10 mins in the morning and 20 mins in the evening but very slow.
He said my leg felt a good bit looser yesterday which I had thought myself. He did more gentle massaging and dry needling and I've to go back again tomorrow (my bank balance is weeping right now over the amount of physio appointments I've had these 3 weeks). I'm still getting mild aches in the leg though, again he said that's normal and it's normal for the aches to move around to different parts of the leg, which it is.
I asked him about the marathon again and he said if it was him he'd probably start it as planned but drop out if the original pain came back and got bad. He seems to think there's a good chance the pain won't come back during the marathon but I'm not confident of that at all.
At the moment I have no idea what I'm going to do. I make a decision and then completely change my mind multiple times daily, ranging from "definitely not doing it" to "definitely gonna go for sub-4" and everything inbetween.
As for doing a different marathon in a few months, I'm not sure I could stomach it. I might stick to shorter distances for a while. But who knows, I could change my mind on that too:o 0 -
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Well I was back at the physio this morning (at 6am :eek:) and now I'm feeling more confused than ever. He told me last week that he thinks it's my shin causing the problem, as there is very tender when he presses on it. He did more dry needling today, mainly of the shin as up til now he'd been doing mainly the calf. Then he started saying how he could refer me for an MRI, although he doesn't think I definitely need it, and there'd be a good chance I wouldn't get the results before the marathon anyway. It's expensive so I've decided not to bother and he said if it was him, he wouldn't bother. But he gave me the referral letter anyway and it says that I have suspected tibial bone stress injury:eek: But yet he's still talking like I'm doing the marathon, which I would've thought would be a big no no if there's the possibility of that kind of injury:( I think he could tell I looked worried as he said at the end that he's not worried about my leg I left there in a bit of a daze and didn't ask half as many questions as I should have.
My shin is feeling a bit achey since this morning, I'm hoping just from the dry needling. I think I'm gonna rest it again this weekend and just hit the turbo again rather than attempt any running.Ok so the good news is that you are going to be on the startline! Go for it. What have you got to lose??? Be different if the physio said not to.
Why don’t you plan to take the first half easy enough? Maybe 2.02/03? You will know well at that stage how the leg is and can push on after that if no issues?
Will we see you in McGrattans afterwards???
Thanks kellygirl. If, and thats a very big if now, I do the marathon and aim for sub-4, I'll definitely take the first half easy. Would probably use one of those pace bands that allows you to select a super conservative start and negative split.
Would love to head to McGrattans after
The Black Oil wrote: »Physios to be fair to them do seem to want to get people to the start line, where possible. Sounds like you've found a good one. I was talking to a woman at parkrun who only got to 12 miles before injury and illness pretty much ruled out the race. Months of training and those long runs will stand to you on the day. Do check into the last few pages of the current novices thread. I think the mentors have made some good points re the nature of the DCM course, particularly those early couple of miles and being a bit conservative there. I found it a useful reminder.
These people would be of a different species, yes??
A slower first few miles definitely sounds like the way to go. Thanks! That poor woman you were talking to at parkrun:( I have a friend who was also planning on doing DCM but had to drop out a couple of months ago due to injury. On the plus side, she found out last week that she got a place in next year's London marathon, so she said that makes up for her DCM disappointment.
Aliens!Hi P. It's been a rollercoaster for you and i (and may others) can empathise with that experience unfortunately. For what it's worth I think you have to at least start it, whatever time you aim for, if you don't you'll just never know what would have happened. If it ends up being a DNF well that's a rotten situation but at least you'll have tried and there was nothing more you could have done. If you don't start you'll always wonder what might have been... That's the way i see it anyhow. It's a tough decision and you're in a horrible position but i hope you can get a positive outcome from it - you really do deserve it. You've done cracking training and that's still in the legs - DCM may not go to plan time wise but you could target another race in December/January (not necessarily a marathon) and still see the gains made from this great training block.
And any of us here would be devastated to be in your position - anyone who can't understand that has obviously never worked so hard for something and made so many sacrifices etc :rolleyes:
Thanks ariana, I appreciate your kind words, it sure is a rollercoaster and one which I really wish would end soon. You are definitely right about wondering what could've been if I don't attempt it. I guess I'll see how the leg is feeling over the next few days though.0 -
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That's an early appointment! The DCU RISC folks sent me some hip strengthening exercises after I went there. Not that I've actually put them into practice.
At least I have them on file for the future. You could ask your physio for advice for after the marathon re injury prevention and S&C as a plan in itself. Yeah, I've met plenty of injured people at park run, the woman I mentioned above was black and blue from a fall.
I would expect the odd mile or two to hurt anyway, regardless of level of preparation of physical state in advance and on the day. I'll still dangle back a bit from the pacers where sensible to do so and listen to the body.Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.
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The Black Oil wrote: »That's an early appointment! The DCU RISC folks sent me some hip strengthening exercises after I went there. Not that I've actually put them into practice. At least I have them on file for the future. You could ask your physio for advice for after the marathon re injury prevention and S&C as a plan in itself. Yeah, I've met plenty of injured people at park run, the woman I mentioned above was black and blue from a fall.
I would expect the odd mile or two to hurt anyway, regardless of level of preparation of physical state in advance and on the day. I'll still dangle back a bit from the pacers where sensible to do so and listen to the body.
The physio I'm seeing is great for the S&C stuff. They email all the recommended exercises and stretches to you before you've walked out the door, with explanations and pictures for guidance. And for me it's not just calf/shin stuff, it's a good bit of overall body conditioning stuff too. I'm definitely going to try make it a regular thing from now on.
Eek yeah, DCM 2016 feels like so long ago that it's easy to forget how much the marathon is gonna hurt, regardless of injury going into it. Makes me wonder would I be mad to even attempt it:o Ugh decisions.0 -
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Pomplamousse wrote: »It went ok thanks. I ended up running 3 miles easy, all on grass, before the appointment just for something to tell the physio. It felt ok and he was optimistic about that. He did more dry needling and I've one more appointment on Thursday morning. Assuming my leg doesn't flare up before Sunday, I've decided I'm going to start the marathon.
The physio said faster pace is more likely to aggravate the leg so to ignore the watch and just try to enjoy the day. So I've decided I'll go with the 4:20 pacers. I've no idea how it'll go, I haven't run on concrete in 3.5 weeks, so he suggested pulling out if the pain comes back and gets bad, so as not to ruin my whole winter season of training. Fairly heartbreaking after working so hard for sub-4, but I'll get over it.
It’s totally heartbreaking. Would you look at another one in December. Marathon Club Ireland have frequent ones round the place. You could allow yourself to heal after DCM and jump back into the training and use the brilliant base you have built up now. Lanzarote is on December 8th
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It’s totally heartbreaking. Would you look at another one in December. Marathon Club Ireland have frequent ones round the place. You could allow yourself to heal after DCM and jump back into the training and use the brilliant base you have built up now. Lanzarote is on December 8th
I'm not sure I could face it to be honest. If I could get to the start line of Jingle Bells on December 1st feeling good about my leg being recovered, then I'd love to give that a good go. I've been thinking a bit about race plans for next year but have come to absolutely no decisions, on distances or destinations. I guess I'll see how Sunday goes, I'll have a better idea of what state my leg is in.
One thing I have learned from this round of training is not to become so fixated on one race. I sacrificed a lot for DCM 2018 and I regret that now:o :rolleyes:0 -
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It was lovely to meet you in the PP after the half Pomplamousse.
Absolutely gutted for you after such a dedicated marathon training cycle. I've no doubt that you'd have smashed the 4 hours. I hope that you get that finishers top, it's well deserved and your training will pay dividends at the other distances 0 -
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It was lovely to meet you in the PP after the half Pomplamousse.
Absolutely gutted for you after such a dedicated marathon training cycle. I've no doubt that you'd have smashed the 4 hours. I hope that you get that finishers top, it's well deserved and your training will pay dividends at the other distances
Thanks so much Neady. I hope so too. It was lovely to meet you that day too, it seems like a million years ago to me now!It's the curse of marathon training really isn't it? With a 5k if it doesn't go to plan there's always another but it's so much harder mentally and practically speaking to face another marathon if it doesn't go to plan. I feel your pain, really do. But try not to have regrets - the dedicated training you did is still banked and you'll get a pay day just not on the day you were expecting it. Good luck next Sunday P, hope you get that finishers top - you've earned it.
Thanks ariana:) I guess I need to start focusing on the positives: training banked and a half marathon PB. There are probably a few more that I'll eventually realise too.Oh Pomplamousse. I'm so sorry to hear this. It really brings home how true it is that none of us can take anything for granted with this kind of training, and how quickly/easily things can change. And of course as you say it's magnified massively for the marathon, because you have to commit so much to it and the risk is so much greater.
I'd say don't put any pressure on yourself to be thinking of follow up races yet. You still have Sunday and who knows what will happen. After that you can just give yourself a break (mental as much as physical) and you can start thinking about and planning for other training and racing when you feel like it. Allow yourself time to get over the disappointment first! (Not suggesting you'll be disappointed with what happens on Sunday necessarily at all, but in terms of not getting to have the race you trained for).
With all that said, I still hope things will come together for you on Sunday and you'll be able to enjoy it and feel proud.
Thanks eyrie. Definitely need a bit of a break, both physically and mentally, hopefully without losing too much fitness. I'm actually going to look up swimming lessons as that's something I said that I'd try to improve on after the marathon and it'd be good cross training too.
To be honest, no matter how Sunday goes, I'll be feckin delighted when it's all over!
One final (6am:eek::() physio appointment tomorrow and then my leg is on its own.
Thanks again to you all for your comments. It's actually such a big help and really appreciated.0 -
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Pomplamousse wrote: »Thanks kellygirl, will do. I hope so too:)
Thanks Singer, but if anything I think he's being optimistic:o Currently trying to research good points along the course to drop out if required. I think just before going up Crumlin road would be good as I could walk back into town along the canal. Also going to carry some money if a taxi is required and possible. Hopefully it won't come to that but I guess I'm better off being prepared.
Not that I'm your physio, but it sounds similar to the calf problem that I had two years and two weeks ago, and I was more than able to run on it by the time DCM came around. It also felt "different" but I guess I had a heightened awareness of the damn thing. It doesn't seem like you've actually had pain when running in a while now (also similar to what I experienced - it seemed like it was actually a lot sorer when walking).
What didn't work out for me was going out at goal pace, I didn't take into account fitness lost in the meantime and blew up (turns out my heart rate was telling me all this if I had paid attention to it, I also might have been coming down with a cold at the time too... not sure which was more to blame). So if your thing is along the lines of my thing, sub-4 might be a stretch... or at least work your way towards paying a lot of attention to your effort levels as well as your foot. If you were to go out at 4:05 pace, and pull out at Crumlin because you're not feeling right would you be ok with that?
The LUASes are your best bet for getting back to town, the walk from Crumlin is awful 0 -
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Not that I'm your physio, but it sounds similar to the calf problem that I had two years and two weeks ago, and I was more than able to run on it by the time DCM came around. It also felt "different" but I guess I had a heightened awareness of the damn thing. It doesn't seem like you've actually had pain when running in a while now (also similar to what I experienced - it seemed like it was actually a lot sorer when walking).
What didn't work out for me was going out at goal pace, I didn't take into account fitness lost in the meantime and blew up (turns out my heart rate was telling me all this if I had paid attention to it, I also might have been coming down with a cold at the time too... not sure which was more to blame). So if your thing is along the lines of my thing, sub-4 might be a stretch... or at least work your way towards paying a lot of attention to your effort levels as well as your foot. If you were to go out at 4:05 pace, and pull out at Crumlin because you're not feeling right would you be ok with that?
The LUASes are your best bet for getting back to town, the walk from Crumlin is awful
Thanks Singer. It is something you've made me think about, but I think I'm going to stick with my 4:20 plan. I just don't have the confidence in my leg (or fitness anymore) to attempt faster. While I haven't really had pain in the leg when running, I have noticed slight discomfort. My calf feels grand now, the discomfort comes from my shin, which makes me nervous. And all that running (3 miles on Monday and 4 miles yesterday) was on grass, so concrete will be a lot harsher on it.
Good point about the LUASES, I'll bring my LEAP card with me too, hadn't thought of that so thanks!Unthought Known wrote: »Really sorry to hear about your injury P. I can't offer any advice that hasn't already been given, but you'll be at the start line which is a positive.
Remember one of the 2016 novices, aceygray I think, had a similar situation, not knowing if she would even finish. I seem to remember she revised her goal by 20 minutes, but finished faster and exceeded her expectations.
Just go out and see if you can enjoy it. Forget about the time and try not to focus too much on the injury as you'll just get stressed. Easy for me to say I know, but hopefully you get what I mean.
Best of luck.
Thanks Unthought Known. That's a good point about aceygray, I'm going to go back and find her race report now. I know what you mean about trying not to focus on the injury. I was obsessed with every single feeling in the leg while running this week so I need to try let it go a bit. Otherwise I won't enjoy a single step of the marathon.
Last physio appointment this morning. More dry needling/massaging. He said leg was feeling a bit looser again. Not gonna run on it again until Sunday!0 -
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Better to have made a decision and take the pressure off yourself than to push through and end up hobbling around over the winter.
Do you have a secret underground grass training area like, you know, a Bond villain would own?
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