"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

Jodotman

I've never been so angry in my life.

Some of these foul bitches of nuns must still be alive. Name shame and humiliate these *****. I would gladly make them do the walk of shame like the game of thrones.

How a family could send their own daughters to these "concentration camps" with no medical facilities and have no idea where there children are going. Making them work then. Christ.

This is seriously ****ed up. I can't understand how high horse families got away with this and gossiping oul *****.

**** me I could go on and on. First time I've ever been asHamed of saying I'm from irelaid and the high horse families. Raging.

Paren't who sent their daughtets to these places deserve to be shot.

Justspeachless

KKkitty

captbarnacles wrote: »

I had a brother die of cot death in 1976 aged 18 months. Church refused to allow a proper funeral as hadn't lived long enough. This was a baptised child from a 'proper' family. So their treatment of those children doesn't take much to believe. Trash in their minds I suspect. Wicked people.

Same with my brother who died of cot death at 5 months. My parents had 6 kids including me at the time and no headstone was allowed because of the exact same reason that he didn't live a proper life.

Caroleia

There's a part of me that doesn't want to get too hung up focusing on the church, nuns, priests etc because it somehow detracts from the wider issue that an abomination was visited on a certain categories of people in this country - young women who got pregnant and their poor unfortunate children. The tyranny of respectability that visited these horrors upon the vulnerable doesn't bear thinking about. Many's the young woman who must have been horribly betrayed by their own families. We need to face up to this as well surely? I'm just editing in case this looks like some kind of defence of the church, it certainly isn't meant to be.

Ineedaname

My dads brother and sister were stillborn. Since they weren't baptised they weren't allowed in a graveyard. Instead they were buried in an in our neighbours field with a stone taken off the wall to mark the grave. There's also another brother that we've no idea where he's buried.

Samaris

While society does have something to face up to in how these women were treated (in short, atrociously), it was still the order "looking after" these women and children that did the deeds. The investigations should spread across Ireland and to other countries. When the industrial schools business started coming out, other countries started finding the same things had happened in theirs. If I'm remembering rightly, Austria had a big scandal over it. I don't say that to diminish it, on the contrary, these forgotten people should be remembered, buried properly and the injustices done to them brought to light. Tuam wasn't the only one in Ireland (and it's a crying shame that there's not been a decision made yet to investigate Bessborough, which had a mortality rate in children over twice that of Tuam), and Ireland won't be the only country. A full investigation here might also provoke investigations in other countries.

This is what happens when a small group of people are given absolute control of other people, there is -no- oversight and there's a concious effort to designate the controlled group as "lesser" and unimportant. Religion was a useful tool in this, and it was backed up by the State and the people. The whole thing was normalised in Irish society; it was accepted that this was the way things were, the way things had always been and would always be. The last Magdalene Laundry only closed in 1996.

KKkitty

How many of these poor women were welcomed back into their own families if they went home after being in these institutions? A small few I'd say. They were never free of the stigma of getting pregnant outside marriage. I just hope this atrocity wakes up the people of this country to what the church did to these poor women and babies.

The_Kew_Tour

KKkitty wrote: »

Same with my brother who died of cot death at 5 months. My parents had 6 kids including me at the time and no headstone was allowed because of the exact same reason that he didn't live a proper life.

What sort of low life person would not allow a family to put up headstone for a child? A Child!!

I have read lot of World War books and about how people died and survived and it was fascinating but also depressing.

This is like the latter, depressing reading. Barbaric, Genocide, whatever people want call it, but this has to be brought up.

People need to name and shame and they need to tell their own stories.

KKkitty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What sort of low life person would not allow a family to put up headstone for a child? A Child!!

I have read lot of World War books and about how people died and survived and it was fascinating but also depressing.

This is like the latter, depressing reading. Barbaric, Genocide, whatever people want call it, but this has to be brought up.

People need to name and shame and they need to tell their own stories.

The priest at the time wouldn't allow it. At 5 months old my brother hadn't done enough to warrant a headstone over his last resting place.

pilly

KKkitty wrote:

The priest at the time wouldn't allow it. At 5 months old my brother hadn't done enough to warrant a headstone over his last resting place.

You know when you even try to imagine what their logic was there just isn't one. What ****ing skin of their nose if a child had a headstone?

BlinkingLights

According to the news earlier on, some of theses remains are from the 1950s. That's the era when many of our parents were babies. It's not THAT long ago.

It should be opened as a crime scene and fully investigated by the Gardai.

Several hundred Irish people ended up buried in a sewer and the attitude seems to be "oh it was a historical matter".

That simply isn't good enough!

The_Kew_Tour

KKkitty wrote: »

The priest at the time wouldn't allow it. At 5 months old my brother hadn't done enough to warrant a headstone over his last resting place.

I dont know what to say only to say im very sorry to hear that. No words really can describe that.

KKkitty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I dont know what to say only to say im very sorry to hear that. No words really can describe that.

Thank you. I was only 2 at the time myself but my parents took that to their own graves.

Tilikum

It doesn't matter what the CC does in this country, gob****es will still go to mass.

I got married in Vegas last week by a lad dressed as Elvis. I could never imagine myself getting married by some priest in a church.

The whole organisation makes my skin crawl. From their rapist priests to their sadist nuns.

kyote00

I can't quite believe it was the 2nd item on RTE news - after the NI election BS.

Infants dumped like rubbish at the end of the garden - yet RTE are giddy of the election of another bunch of self promoting a-holes...

:mad:

BlinkingLights wrote: »

According to the news earlier on, some of theses remains are from the 1950s. That's the era when many of our parents were babies. It's not THAT long ago.

It should be opened as a crime scene and fully investigated by the Gardai.

Several hundred Irish people ended up buried in a sewer and the attitude seems to be "oh it was a historical matter".

That simply isn't good enough!

BlinkingLights

It's on the front page of CNN.com, Lemonde.fr, BBC.co.uk, TheGuardian.com, ElMundo.es and quite a lot of other publications.

smurgen

BlinkingLights wrote: »

It's on the front page of CNN.com, Lemonde.fr, BBC.co.uk, TheGuardian.com, ElMundo.es and quite a lot of other publications.

And some posters here trying to pass it off as a storm in a tea cup.

theoneeyedman

kyote00 wrote: »

I can't quite believe it was the 2nd item on RTE news - after the NI election BS.

Infants dumped like rubbish at the end of the garden - yet RTE are giddy of the election of another bunch of self promoting a-holes...

:mad:

I'd imagine the timing is not a coincidence at all.... NI news is a good distraction, and a Friday to boot when it's the weekend and people are not inclined to watch news or read papers is a classic day to try to bury news.

infogiver

Akrasia wrote: »

The Catholic Church preyed on the young people of Ireland for generations. Young girls were sent off to the nunneries as teenagers. Young boys were sent off to become priests as teenagers. Young mothers were taken from their families to become slaves and their babies taken and either sold or forced to work in their laundries or work houses.

Nuns, priests, 'brothers' taken as children and trained as foot soldiers who became institutionalised and brainwashed to think that their faith is everything to them....

The Cult of the Roman Catholic Church needs to be consigned to history. Luckily they're in rapid decline because hardly anyone freely chooses to subjugate themselves these days.

The parents of the children sent them to the Convents and seminaries.
There's no point now in pretending that the RCC sent around a "child catcher" van or something.
Having a child or children in Holy Orders lifted the mother in particular into a higher stratosphere then the other women.
You could die happy if you had reared a priest, and you could look down your nose at your sister or your neighbor who didn't.
Irish people were and continue to be almost horrifically snobbish. It used to be having a son a PP and now it's having all the kids at Uni.
It's only if you live somewhere other then Ireland that you realise this

KKkitty

Who needs to investigate this in order for justice to prevail? I don't know if I have faith in our own government to do it.

infogiver

KKkitty wrote: »

How many of these poor women were welcomed back into their own families if they went home after being in these institutions? A small few I'd say. They were never free of the stigma of getting pregnant outside marriage. I just hope this atrocity wakes up the people of this country to what the church did to these poor women and babies.

None. Philomena of the famous film starring Steve Coogan was dropped off at the Convent in Roscrea by her father and told that as far as he was concerned she was dead.
She made her peace with him years later but the fact of the matter is, once the baby was born and most times sold to an American family, the mother of the baby had absolutely nowhere to go and had to stay in the insistution

infogiver

Caroleia wrote: »

There's a part of me that doesn't want to get too hung up focusing on the church, nuns, priests etc because it somehow detracts from the wider issue that an abomination was visited on a certain categories of people in this country - young women who got pregnant and their poor unfortunate children. The tyranny of respectability that visited these horrors upon the vulnerable doesn't bear thinking about. Many's the young woman who must have been horribly betrayed by their own families. We need to face up to this as well surely? I'm just editing in case this looks like some kind of defence of the church, it certainly isn't meant to be.

It's typically Irish that this glaring fact is totally ignored. You can see it on this thread.
Not only the families but the entire society was in total agreement that the best solution to illegitimacy was the institutions.
The only solution really.
The farming community in particular were determined that no girl was going to arrive at the front door with a baby in her arms demanding to be included in the will
Likewise if the daughter of the farm "fell by the wayside " then they would be scandalised and her siblings would never now make good matches themselves.

greenflash

Can we not just find a way to blame the Brits? Then we can carry on telling ourselves and anyone else who'll listen what a great little nation we are.

Ave Sodalis

neonsofa wrote: »

I dunno, it IS more difficult to get a degree if parenting alone. I did it myself and it was so hard to juggle childcare while working and attending college and then studying while at home, i didnt get a second. So I don't think the surprise is due to them thinking you're too big for your boots or anything, I think it is more a case of "oh fair play, didn't think you'd have the time/resources", because I get that too when I discuss my education and future ambitions. And in fairness i dont even kniw how i did it :pac: Or people being surprised to find out I'm in full time employment rather than on social welfare, it's not out of malice, more an acknowledgement that it is difficult to do these things as a single parent. Not that we deserve a pat on the back or anything for doing it, but it is more difficult cause you can't share the load. Not taking away from the judgement that still exists btw, but I don't think it is always negative judgement or assumptions. Sometimes people can just be giving you credit for what you did, and you should be proud

Oh no, I'm speaking as the child of a single mother

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Maybe back in 1994.

But honestly, no one bats an eyelid at single parents these days anymore. Nor would anyone agree with what you say.

I take your point about it being difficult, probably still is, but the point is, non marital babies mean nothing to anyone now. Pity it wasn't the same back then, but we had the Catholic Church with such power over everyone back then.

Great that it has lost most of it now.

I would love to know what the Fathers had to suffer. Nothing from what I see and read. Lucky escape for them.

Actually, that's not entirely true. You may not, and I commend you for it but there is absolutely a stigma still attached. As I said, take a look at AH. It would depress any single parent. It even happens away from the internet. A friend of the family broke up with her partner last year with whom she had a young child. Her partner wasn't worried about the breakup itself, he was worried his child would now be ruined because he will now be raised by "one of them single mothers" (you can see why they broke up). This person is the pride of the community. He spends hours at funerals helping out, he's involved with the local GAA, goes to the bake sales in support of the local school, his parents run a successful restaurant, and to outward appearances, he seems like a lovely person.

And like I said, I still get raised eyebrows when some people find out I intend to do a postgraduate course, or if they find out I'm not pregnant yet because of course I wouldn't be educated and would become a professional baby producer like my mother before me. Sure that's all those single mothers teach. Them sluts are only in it for the money. It doesn't matter that there were some long cold nights when we couldn't afford heating, it doesn't matter that I've seen my mother have to go without food in order to keep us fed... she's only in it for the money and I should turn out the same way.

They may not have been able to drag me off her, they may not even attempt to do that anymore. However, it's just plain ignorance if you think nobody bats an eyelid at single parents these days.

infogiver

greenflash wrote: »

Can we not just find a way to blame the Brits? Then we can carry on on telling ourselves and anyone else who'll listen what a great little nation we are.

Someone will be along soon to tell us that foreign babies are illegitimate but Irish babies are undocumented

Zebra3

A lot of faux outrage on here.

We've known about the RC Church's crimes for a long time.

While what happened in Tuam (and wherever else) is absolutely disgusting, how many here while knowing the RC Church was a vile, criminal organisation still put the kids into it, made sure they had their communions and got married in it?

And the usual excuses to keep the grandparents happy. And yet the same ones wonder why people didn't stand up to horrendous social pressure back in the day?

The stench of hypocrisy is unreal.

ChikiChiki

BlinkingLights wrote: »

It's on the front page of CNN.com, Lemonde.fr, BBC.co.uk, TheGuardian.com, ElMundo.es and quite a lot of other publications.

Irelands shame. Its absolutely disgusting and so is our failure to get to the bottom of these matters.

Thankfully the Catholic Church is dying out.

Mrs OBumble

How many babies of asylum seekers in Ireland have died, and where are they buried?

How many children of asylum seekers like in close proximity with prople who have not been vetted to ensure they are safe around children?

greenflash

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Irelands shame. Its absolutely disgusting and so is our failure to get to the bottom of these matters.

Thankfully the Catholic Church is dying out.

Dying out to the extent that the vast majority of the population get their children christened into the RCC so they can have a place in church controlled schools? I'm sure they couldn't care less about falling mass attendances when education is the real cash cow.

Ferrari3600

Indoctrination and blind belief runs through Irish society like a stick of rock.

smurgen

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How many babies of asylum seekers in Ireland have died, and where are they buried?

How many children of asylum seekers like in close proximity with prople who have not been vetted to ensure they are safe around children?

How is this relevant to this thread?