"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

BlinkingLights

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Not forgetting the bastion of the protestant faith that was TCD.

I'm not exempting Irish protestants either. The Betheny Home scandal didn't exactly paint them in a great light.

BlinkingLights

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I'm not exempting Irish protestants either. The Betheny Home scandal didn't exactly paint them in a great light.

Awaits post blaming the nuns for that, too...

Don't get me wrong, some Nuns, and Priests, have an awful lot to answer for.

But any mention that they were not the sole source of abuse in Ireland tends to get a reply from some posters that totally ignores that inconvenient fact...

tara73

BlinkingLights wrote: »

The problem I find is we are dealing with a horrible, rotten, agenda-driven organisation and a complicit state that allowed it to take over and basically undermine democracy and transparency and even rule of law.

Yes, there are lots of anecdotes of nice members and lovely nuns and aspects of positivity and well meaning individuals.

However, it does not change the fact that the organisation itself is deeply flawed, ignores its own mission statement and has behaved in an utterly abhorrent and totally unaccountable manner and still refuses to fully recognise that.

The church has some good core teachings but it has done a hell of a lot of horrific stuff over the years that absolutely fly in the face of Catholic or any kind of Christian teaching.

You can't love thy neighbour by forcing her to work in a laundry or shunning her children because you don't agree with how they were fathered.

Or any of the countless other things the church and it's representatives have done over the years.

The core message was lost in a medieval mess or puritanical, moralising, social engineering and power hungry abuse.

I feel sorry for the people who thought they were doing good and who in many cases genuinely were doing good and are left with a situation where they now feel they have to show blind loyalty to this monster of an organisation.

It's let a lot of people down, very badly and is really a massive betrayal of the trust of the trust placed in it and the respect granted to it by Irish Catholics, its own clergy, nuns and brothers and anyone who ever expected it to behave in a sensible way.

I'm not religious at all, but I could imagine if you were a good priest or a nun or a very faithful catholic, you would be absolutely distraught at what's happened and probably left with very mixed and conflicted feelings about the Church.

Most of all however, it absolutely betrayed the vulnerable who were abused in its direct 'care' as did the state, by totally and absolutely failing to protect their human rights or to even vaguely uphold the ideals that this state was allegedly founded upon.

can't thank this post enough, so well said. Not only did this organisation, the RCC, abuse, humiliate and yes, murdered so many innocent poeple and children, they also damaged the trust of many good folks who believed in and lived the values this church preached.
Again, I hope people wake up and turn their back on this organisation for good.

BlinkingLights

Deleted User wrote: »

Awaits post blaming the nuns for that, too...

Don't get me wrong, some Nuns, and Priests, have an awful lot to answer for.

But any mention that they were not the sole source of abuse in Ireland tends to get a reply from some posters that totally ignores that inconvenient fact...

Well the churches all participated in various 20th century crucdades against what they perceived as immorality here.

For example two Church of Ireland clergy sat along side Catholic clergy on the "Committee on Evil Literature" (no. I'm not making that up. We really had one!).
This was the Free State's first serious dive into censorship.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Evil_Literature

I'd see if more as a broader puritanical movement that happened here in the 20th century.

The Catholic side was definitely much more extreme and far more dominant just in sheer scale but, certain Irish protestants weren't all that much less conservative by the looks of things.

The main stream of the modern Church of Ireland is definitely pretty progressive but that hasn't always been the case and it's also not the only aspect of Protestant community thinking here - there are far more conservative groups.

I mean just look north and you've an aspect of NI Protestant culture being the major stumbling block against both Same Sex Marriage and abortion.

I think the C of I modernised more dramatically and more rapidly then the Catholic Church but it's looking at it through rainbow tinted glasses to think it's always been very liberal or that it doesn't still have conservative aspects and the C of I is not the whole story of protestantism in Ireland by any means.

Mr.Wemmick

The suggestion that all Nuns are bad or all members of the RCC are evil is nonsensical. I don't think anyone believes that generalization, just as you simply can not say all parents/families who sent their daughters into homes were all bad/evil. On an individual level it is all rather unmeasurable and terribly vague (one reason a thorough investigation is needed). The point here is that the organization of the Church in Ireland was an evil set up as it was purely power based: unelected, undemocratic with no rules/regulations in place other than the layered policies of self protection. The state handed over control to the holy, pure Church without a bat of an eye, no accountability, no regulations.. and so the anecdotal evidence from ordinary folk in every corner of the land (BlinkingLights post is an excellent example) from that point onwards was overwhelming, staggering re: the cruelty, the fear, the absolute power sucked up and welded by them over the country.

Priests and Nuns have no individual voice, albeit a very quiet whispering one, in the organization and I for one am not at all surprised. If they were critical of their employer do they have protection, union, rights as to their employment status? Imagine after 20 odd years of being clothed, fed, paid, you began to be critical and share your concerns/opinions, you would end up out on the street, with nothing. Bryan Darcy tried to take them on, didn't he? But then he had a clear individual power base being a journalist and a paid celeb, and if he got bullied by them and had the trouble he had, what chance does the ordinary Joe Soap of the priesthood/nunhood have? To me it no longer represents the good, but is a faceless tightly controlled corporation that gets away with crimes again and again.. and no one has even begun to uncover or understand the abuse of young nuns and priests once they joined the organization over the last 90 years.

Always that never ending silence.

Graces7

tara73 wrote: »

I think it's not only the irish psyche, for me, it seems, shockingly, the majority of people all around the world are so easy to manipulate, are so obedient to authorities because they are raised from a babies age to be like that and are not able to think outside their box/ are afraid of the consequences if they not obey to this so called 'authorities'.

I think we all deep down have a basic need and a right to have rulers over us.

If everyone did "their own thing"? While many would be fine? Look at the way society is now. No rulers.

And we have a right and a need to be able to trust those in authority. Which is where it goes badly wrong.

I learned in a very hard and dangerous "school".fighting a particularly corrupt set up decades ago that it is not safe to trust authority. Had I not stood up to that ? I would be dead or at the least incarcerated.

It was a bitterly hard and dangerous thing to do, believe me. Shudders... to realsie that " I have nowhere to run to and no one cares for my soul."

And those around me said they were scared to support me lest they got treated as I was being treated.

I hear this so often too.

Now I am often branded a troublemaker. By those in authority when I help someone who is being bullied. And these days I honestly do not care. But then I am secure in that I have no one dependent on me, no position to uphold. no job to protect.

Never did I break any law though.

Ireland is "worse" than other nations in this. and worse at coping with it when t goes wrong.

ENgland is not far behind.

Graces7

tara73 wrote: »

anybody knows how come they could put themselves in this power? somebody mentioned here earlier that it was a concious decision from the Vatican. But I wonder how they were able to do it because the British were still in power after the famine and they were mostly protestant??
Genuine question, I always wondered why or how the Catholic Church became so powerful in Ireland.

That was me; working on a history.

Even before the famine Ireland was almost totally Catholic. Saint Patrick led that movement and in his hands it was blessed and good and pure and strong. Celtic and irish. Society was basically tribal not hierarchical.

Look at the monks o Skellig Michael, and another identical community ar Reask. They stayed dirt poor, working with the locals to support them .

From around the 12 century Rome moved in. Look under any county for "monastic sites"on wikipaedia. Vast numbers and they standardised everything. No more Skellig monks. Controlled.

The British did not rule religion ever in the same sense Rome did . As now alongside but subsidiary, religion ofr the rich and rulers not the poor ,

Rome ruled by ruling the poor.

And yes, after the Famine, they sent Paul Cardinal Cullen in and literally colonised Ireland. And they could have stopped the Famine in its tracks. They refused o allow ships carrying food in.

Ireland was to breed nuns and priests and send them out to every country to take over for Rome. Literally.

Sad that they concentrated on quantity not quality.

And as many say, some pure and holy ones caught up in it all and doing so much good.

There is a book, online now, called "Father Ralph" written in the 20s but could have been written today

Zebra3

We've known of the crimes of the Roman church for a long time now yet still ordinary Irish people have colluded with them.

Continued funding them through wedding and christening "donations", the christenings giving them new members, cowards refusing to speak up and get the people we elect to get the vermin out of our every day lives.

A lot of people need to take a good look at themselves.

Boggy Turf

Zebra3 wrote: »

We've known of the crimes of the Roman church for a long time now yet still ordinary Irish people have colluded with them.

Continued funding them through wedding and christening "donations", the christenings giving them new members, cowards refusing to speak up and get the people we elect to get the vermin out of our every day lives.

A lot of people need to take a good look at themselves.

+1000

How people validate their membership of that 'criminal' organisation is completely beyond me.

How people are so determined not to try to find out all the facts is beyond me - but, there you go.

Graces7

Zebra3 wrote: »

We've known of the crimes of the Roman church for a long time now yet still ordinary Irish people have colluded with them.

Continued funding them through wedding and christening "donations", the christenings giving them new members, cowards refusing to speak up and get the people we elect to get the vermin out of our every day lives.

A lot of people need to take a good look at themselves.

Ahem. There are in the Church many who are sincere and devout and devoted and blameless Christians. Believe me. I am privileged to know many and to be one myself in my small way.

You cannot realistically blame them for what many did or speak so ill of those who believe in our truth.

Any more that even I can say that all doctors are evil because some badly abused me and others.

Or all Gardai are corrupt etc.

Using words like "colluded " is totally inappropriate and inaccurate.

Living our faith is not evil in any way. It really is not.

The parts of the Church that abused are not Jesus. Or Christian. And who let the bad ones pollute you in this way?

Today I have visited the School Cemetery at Letterfrack. children, boys between 4 and 16 years old who suffered appalling abuse in the Industrial School having been committed there by the Gardai and yes the priest.

After my initial utter grief and outrage, as I trod gently through the rows of plaques, I saw and see the loving and living faith of the Catholics who have made the bare graveyard into a loving tribute to the little ones.

Why should they abandon their faith and the expression of it in their lives, in the most important events in those lives?

That is to let the evil truly win.

What stuck in my craw and had me sweeping out of the church was the costly and mawkish memorial in the church. Three sturdy happy lads on a climbing frame and the words above it; "IF ONLY"

All the small town knew what was being done there.

I know many true Catholics and yes, good priests ,and good nuns. People who have been as Christ to me at times of great need. Because they lived the life that truly is of Jesus.

I honestly think that what I have bolded ? Work it out please.

It is now official here in Galway that no decisions will be made re further excavations and no involvement from the coroner until the report is completed late this year

It is getting near Easter after a bitter Lent and for me this means less time online and more in prayer.

PS I have to been to mass since this broke and today was the first time since then that I have been in a church. This has been a frequent way for me to cope. My deep faith remains intact however as that is safe with Jesus.
That in no way means I will condemn or blame anyone who goes to mass or celebrates their child's confirmation and First Communion. I will share their joy.

Not planning to be around much the next while ; blessings and peace.

Graces7

Boggy Turf wrote: »

+1000

How people validate their membership of that 'criminal' organisation is completely beyond me.

We do not need to validate our faith in Jesus. Or how we live that faith. Period.

Most are as horrified and appalled as you are, but we know the power of prayer .
Membership is not the right word either.

Boggy Turf

Graces7 wrote: »

We do not need to validate our faith in Jesus. Or how we live that faith. Period.

Most are as horrified and appalled as you are, but we know the power of prayer .
Membership is not the right word either.

Membership is exactly the right word.

Membership of an organisation and belief in the supernatural are 2 completely different things.

Boggy Turf

Boggy Turf wrote: »

Membership is exactly the right word.

Membership of an organisation and belief in the supernatural are 2 completely different things.

You know, for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can criticise the Church for telling people how to act - and then go on to tell people how to act.

As Graces7 said, there are many good people in the Church.

Like any other organisation, there have been some very bad ones, too.

Those of us who try to lead good, decent lives are free to do so, thankfully.

The same society that allows you to express your disbelief allows us to express our belief.

And that is how it should be - without being lectured on what we are "allowed" to believe - or anything else that doesn't involve harm to others.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Deleted User wrote: »

You know, for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can criticise the Church for telling people how to act - and then go on to tell people how to act.

As Graces7 said, there are many good people in the Church.

Like any other organisation, there have been some very bad ones, too.

Those of us who try to lead good, decent lives are free to do so, thankfully.

The same society that allows you to express your disbelief allows us to express our belief.

And that is how it should be - without being lectured on what we are "allowed" to believe - or anything else that doesn't involve harm to others.

Of course what you say is correct but Graces7 cannot deny that 'membership' is the correct term. We are members of the church organisation. She would have been more correct to question the asserting that it is a criminal organisation. The organisation is not criminal because some members behaved as criminals. No more than a sports organisation is criminal because some coaches were involved in criminal activity.
If someone wants to look on faith and religion as belief in the supernatural then fine. Indeed they are somewhat correct, as supernatural means 'unable to be explained by science or the laws of nature ' which is in essence what we say of God and faith. If they want to say we believe in hocus pocus, then fine too - their loss.

Boggy Turf

Jurnee Aggressive Tapir wrote: »

The organisation is not criminal because some members behaved as criminals. No more than a sports organisation is criminal because some coaches were involved in criminal activity.

Do you consider the priests and bishops that covered up pedophilia and moved pedophiles on to other parishes to be criminals? Genuine question.
For example, Sean Brady.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Boggy Turf wrote: »

Do you consider the priests and bishops that covered up pedophilia and moved pedophiles on to other parishes to be criminals? Genuine question.
For example, Sean Brady.

Of course, I do.

Boggy Turf

Jurnee Aggressive Tapir wrote: »

Of course, I do.

How then did he become leader of the Roman catholic church in Ireland?
How did people allow/accept that? He was allowed to retire gracefully.
After the Brendan Smyth case, Brady should have been imprisoned. He knew about Smyth since 1975!
Did people feel the oath of silence and threat of excommunication to abused children was not a cause for resignation when Smyth was finally caught??
Would the same happen in a sporting organisation?

volchitsa

Jurnee Aggressive Tapir wrote: »

Of course, I do.

So since all the evidence is that the cover up went right up to the top, at what point does the institution itself have collective responsibility?

Remember that Sean Brady was made Cardinal when those in the church knew of his actions, though the rest of us didn't - but it sure looks like a reward for his unquestioning "loyalty". Which may also be why his supposed offer to resign was refused.

Jurnee Aggressive Tapir

Jurnee Aggressive Tapir wrote: »

Of course what you say is correct but Graces7 cannot deny that 'membership' is the correct term. We are members of the church organisation. She would have been more correct to question the asserting that it is a criminal organisation. The organisation is not criminal because some members behaved as criminals. No more than a sports organisation is criminal because some coaches were involved in criminal activity.
If someone wants to look on faith and religion as belief in the supernatural then fine. Indeed they are somewhat correct, as supernatural means 'unable to be explained by science or the laws of nature ' which is in essence what we say of God and faith. If they want to say we believe in hocus pocus, then fine too - their loss.

I tend to agree with what you say.

Having said that, I have a tremendous admiration and respect for Graces7, and her dignity and faith despite her obvious pain.

I'm mostly inclined, at this point, to ignore those who want to play hypocritical, accusatory games.

I've searched for as much of the truth as I can find. I've looked at the history, the political situation, the culture, and the poverty. I've puzzled over why people from all walks of life behaved as they did - all in the interests of finding the whole truth, in the hope that we, as a society, might learn how to prevent anything similar in the future, and also, in the hope of closure for the victims.

Ive read hysterical nonsense in a lot of places, posted by people who try to make people believe that all of the Church is evil, and that people should somehow be denied the right to religious freedom.

Such people fail to see that they themselves have become the oppressor, and would have us believe that they are the sole judge of good and evil.

There are lessons that could, and should, be learned. The irony is that those who shout the loudest usually aren't those who can see real evil in our society now, and, frankly, know nothing about the history then, or how what happened came to be.

I could sit and type for hours about truly awful things that were done to people - but, precisely because it wasn't a priest or nun who did these things, I wouldn't be believed, and I wouldn't waste my time talking to people who have already made their minds up. As far as they are concerned, the victims don't matter, the jury has spoken - all that remains is for the execution, and that can't come fast enough for them.

These pages are not full of people who want justice, or a better future for people for the most part.
Some posters want that - but too many just want a stick to beat the Church with. Nothing else will do. No-one else deserves condemnation, for the most part, according to our new "moral guardians":rolleyes:.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Dr Strange

So, it's almost the end of the month and no news, has this fallen by the wayside? The next step should've been for the coroner making a decision on what should happen next but it seems nothing is happening.

Zebra3

Graces7 wrote: »

Ahem. There are in the Church many who are sincere and devout and devoted and blameless Christians. Believe me. I am privileged to know many and to be one myself in my small way.

You cannot realistically blame them for what many did or speak so ill of those who believe in our truth.

Any more that even I can say that all doctors are evil because some badly abused me and others.

Or all Gardai are corrupt etc.

Using words like "colluded " is totally inappropriate and inaccurate.

Living our faith is not evil in any way. It really is not.

The parts of the Church that abused are not Jesus. Or Christian. And who let the bad ones pollute you in this way?

Today I have visited the School Cemetery at Letterfrack. children, boys between 4 and 16 years old who suffered appalling abuse in the Industrial School having been committed there by the Gardai and yes the priest.

After my initial utter grief and outrage, as I trod gently through the rows of plaques, I saw and see the loving and living faith of the Catholics who have made the bare graveyard into a loving tribute to the little ones.

Why should they abandon their faith and the expression of it in their lives, in the most important events in those lives?

That is to let the evil truly win.

What stuck in my craw and had me sweeping out of the church was the costly and mawkish memorial in the church. Three sturdy happy lads on a climbing frame and the words above it; "IF ONLY"

All the small town knew what was being done there.

I know many true Catholics and yes, good priests ,and good nuns. People who have been as Christ to me at times of great need. Because they lived the life that truly is of Jesus.

I honestly think that what I have bolded ? Work it out please.

It is now official here in Galway that no decisions will be made re further excavations and no involvement from the coroner until the report is completed late this year

It is getting near Easter after a bitter Lent and for me this means less time online and more in prayer.

PS I have to been to mass since this broke and today was the first time since then that I have been in a church. This has been a frequent way for me to cope. My deep faith remains intact however as that is safe with Jesus.
That in no way means I will condemn or blame anyone who goes to mass or celebrates their child's confirmation and First Communion. I will share their joy.

Not planning to be around much the next while ; blessings and peace.

It is a criminal organisation rotten to the core.

The average Catholic has done nothing about the crimes committed. I never recall hearing of anyone standing up in a church and condemning the criminality of their organisation. No, the cowards just sat on their hands and kept stumping up the cash to the mafia.

If you don't see that as collusion, that's your problem.

kylith

I don't think anyone is criticising devout Christians. The criticism of 'validating' the RCC is aimed at those who are members in name only. Who get married in a church because it's the done thing and the pictures are nice, who baptise their kids so granny won't get a puss on her and then aren't seen again until communion so the child 'doesn't feel left out' because all the other kids in their church-controlled school (who also haven't been in a church since baptism) are doing it. These are the people who, by signing their children up for a corrupt organisation that they don't even believe in, falsely bolster the RCC's position in this country.

Seriously: if you don't believe in the teachings of the RCC you shouldn't be signing your children up for it. Tell granny to get over herself, she'll live. All it would take is for one generation to grow a spine and this organisation would be the tiny niche group that it actually is.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

It is a criminal organisation rotten to the core.

The average Catholic has done nothing about the crimes committed. I never recall hearing of anyone standing up in a church and condemning the criminality of their organisation. No, the cowards just sat on their hands and kept stumping up the cash to the mafia.

If you don't see that as collusion, that's your problem.

That would be rather dramatic, would it not?

You are not in a position to know what has passed between every Catholic and the hierarchy.

Nor, frankly, given your attitude, is it any of your business.

Thankfully, people have a right to freedom of religion in this Country, whether you like it, or not!

the_syco

Graces7 wrote: »

but we know the power of prayer

The power (that Rome has) of prayer over the faithful; pray to your god, but don't question your masters.

Dr Strange wrote: »

So, it's almost the end of the month and no news, has this fallen by the wayside? The next step should've been for the coroner making a decision on what should happen next but it seems nothing is happening.

It'll be interesting to see what smokescreen comes out from the church around the same time as the coroners report.

tara73

kylith wrote: »

I don't think anyone is criticising devout Christians. The criticism of 'validating' the RCC is aimed at those who are members in name only. Who get married in a church because it's the done thing and the pictures are nice, who baptise their kids so granny won't get a puss on her and then aren't seen again until communion so the child 'doesn't feel left out' because all the other kids in their church-controlled school (who also haven't been in a church since baptism) are doing it. These are the people who, by signing their children up for a corrupt organisation that they don't even believe in, falsely bolster the RCC's position in this country.

Seriously: if you don't believe in the teachings of the RCC you shouldn't be signing your children up for it. Tell granny to get over herself, she'll live. All it would take is for one generation to grow a spine and this organisation would be the tiny niche group that it actually is.

+1000

Zebra3

Deleted User wrote: »

That would be rather dramatic, would it not?

You are not in a position to know what has passed between every Catholic and the hierarchy.

Nor, frankly, given your attitude, is it any of your business.

Thankfully, people have a right to freedom of religion in this Country, whether you like it, or not!

The people of Ireland also have the right to live their lives free from the interference of criminal organisations.

The right to pray to mythical deities cannot be used as a cover for mafiosi organisations to exist.

volchitsa

Deleted User wrote: »

That would be rather dramatic, would it not?

Really? If they stood up and protested because they were unhappy that they hadn't been consulted over some detail, then yes - but are you really saying it would be an overly dramatic act to make as a protest against deliberate and systematic cover up of child abuse?

I disagree.

You are not in a position to know what has passed between every Catholic and the hierarchy.

Well, we know that if they did protest in private they were clearly ignored. So maybe standing up in public might have been the way to go if anyone wanted to nt more harm being done to children.

Nor, frankly, given your attitude, is it any of your business.

So being critical of an organization that covered up child abuse removes one's right to criticize that organization?

Interesting logic. As is the implication that harm to children shouldn't be the business of society in general. Do you apply that to everything? None of your business if I beat my kids, right?

Thankfully, people have a right to freedom of religion in this Country, whether you like it, or not!

Everyone does indeed, but then the poster didn't suggest otherwise - I think it was more puzzlement that nobody within the church had the guts to stand up to them despite their criminal activities.

juno10353

Have just rewatched the film Evelyn with Pierce Brosnan, about a father fighting for the right to raise his daughter as a single father, through the Irish Supreme Court. Shows Ireland's view of family and church and children at the time.

Boggy Turf

kylith wrote: »

Seriously: if you don't believe in the teachings of the RCC you shouldn't be signing your children up for it. Tell granny to get over herself, she'll live. All it would take is for one generation to grow a spine and this organisation would be the tiny niche group that it actually is.

I do think the current young generation will make this happen. They do not have the same hangups, fears and brainwashing that their parents have.

A Little Pony

Zebra3 wrote: »

We've known of the crimes of the Roman church for a long time now yet still ordinary Irish people have colluded with them.

Continued funding them through wedding and christening "donations", the christenings giving them new members, cowards refusing to speak up and get the people we elect to get the vermin out of our every day lives.

A lot of people need to take a good look at themselves.

Actually not all Irish people did submit to them and haven't since the reformation. Nearly a million of them in Northern Ireland bare no responsibility for this.

Zebra3

A Little Pony wrote: »

Actually not all Irish people did submit to them and haven't since the reformation. Nearly a million of them in Northern Ireland bare no responsibility for this.

Correct, and I never said they did.

Though most of those you refer to would be strong supporters of Britain's war crimes and human rights abuses.

Noddyholder

In todays CSO papers for 2016, it says the percentage of people who define them selfs as catholic has fallen sharply, from 84.2 to 78.3

cant do link.

pilly

Noddyholder wrote: »

In todays CSO papers for 2016, it says the percentage of people who define them selfs as catholic has fallen sharply, from 84.2 to 78.3

cant do link.

Still extremely high. I wouldn't imagine 78.3% of the people I know would pick Catholic on the census. Maybe they do out of laziness or doubt though. (the just in case Catholic my mother used to call them)!

sondagefaux

The numbers of people declaring themselves to be of 'No Religion' are up by 73% since 2011 to 468,400 in 2016, or 9.8% of the total population.

It's the fastest growing group in the state. I think it'll nearly double again by 2021, as more and more people get over the whole 'I'm not religious but I'm declaring myself to be a Catholic as I was raised as one' thing, and as more and more people lose interest in religion.

http://cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/pressreleases/2017/prCensussummarypart1.pdf

Mountainsandh

kylith wrote: »

I don't think anyone is criticising devout Christians. The criticism of 'validating' the RCC is aimed at those who are members in name only. Who get married in a church because it's the done thing and the pictures are nice, who baptise their kids so granny won't get a puss on her and then aren't seen again until communion so the child 'doesn't feel left out' because all the other kids in their church-controlled school (who also haven't been in a church since baptism) are doing it. These are the people who, by signing their children up for a corrupt organisation that they don't even believe in, falsely bolster the RCC's position in this country.

Seriously: if you don't believe in the teachings of the RCC you shouldn't be signing your children up for it. Tell granny to get over herself, she'll live. All it would take is for one generation to grow a spine and this organisation would be the tiny niche group that it actually is.

Kylith, I'm one of the spineless ones, I tick all the boxes in your post. But it's not so much out of fear of the mother in law that we went along with the whole charade, it's more a mix of misinformation (your kids have to be baptised to get into school), and also, as regards getting married in a Church 13 years ago, that there was little else available at the time in terms of ceremonies. Between a registrars office in the old hospital and a church, a church was the most appealing of settings, plus we both more or less thought we were still catholics at the time.
There was the mother in law thing a bit, but at the time it was more the grand mother in law, who was still alive, and others of her generation. These same people were never told when one of the sons came out as gay too, why upset them in their old age ?

Things are changing fast, information is more forthcoming now. The mil's generation have successfully transitioned to accepting gay marriage. I would expect, too, that my children's generation will have no qualms opting for all the other, non-religious options. They'll know about them to start with.

I put us all down as no religion this year on the census. The other years, it just didn't seem important. Now it does.

Dr Strange

Letters between the commission and the Minister on the shocking number of human remains at Tuam released under the Freedom of Information Act: http://www.thejournal.ie/mother-and-baby-home-tuam-3326484-Apr2017/

gucci

kylith wrote: »

I don't think anyone is criticising devout Christians. The criticism of 'validating' the RCC is aimed at those who are members in name only. Who get married in a church because it's the done thing and the pictures are nice, who baptise their kids so granny won't get a puss on her and then aren't seen again until communion so the child 'doesn't feel left out' because all the other kids in their church-controlled school (who also haven't been in a church since baptism) are doing it. These are the people who, by signing their children up for a corrupt organisation that they don't even believe in, falsely bolster the RCC's position in this country.

Seriously: if you don't believe in the teachings of the RCC you shouldn't be signing your children up for it. Tell granny to get over herself, she'll live. All it would take is for one generation to grow a spine and this organisation would be the tiny niche group that it actually is.

tara73 wrote: »

+1000

+100000000 MORE AND MULTIPLIED BY INFINITY

Zebra3

Have the guards started an investigation yet?

nhunter100

Zebra3 wrote:

Have the guards started an investigation yet?

Too busy investigating themselves.

maryishere

nhunter100 wrote: »

Too busy investigating themselves.

Will they ever start an investigation? In other countries if babies remains were found in a sewer system, a serious investigation would have started ages ago.

FA Hayek

Zebra3 wrote: »

Have the guards started an investigation yet?

The illuminati are stopping them.

maryishere

In 20 years time we might have another multi million euro tribunal in to the scandal of why such abuse was covered up at the time, and why it was not investigated properly when the babies remains were discovered.

Dr Strange

Some new developments today:

Irish Examiner wrote:

Katherine Zappone seeks excavation of entire Tuam home site

...The Irish Examiner understands the minister will tell Cabinet colleagues these measures will include site excavation options; best international practice for identifying the remains; and technical work on how to protect human remains on the site during excavation.

While no decision on excavations on other homes has been made, it is expected the Tuam work will be extended to other locations.

Full details: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/katherine-zappone-seeks-excavation-of-entire-tuam-home-site-450203.html

Also:

Irish Independent wrote:

Experts to advise on exhumation of Tuam babies site

... The Government will today consider the 'next steps' for the site, where it is believed hundreds of dead babies were buried by nuns between 1925 and 1961.

Among the decisions to be taken in the coming months is whether officials believe it will be possible to ID any of the remains.

Children's Minister Katherine Zappone will update the Cabinet on developments at the site since it was revealed in March that "significant quantities" of human remains were found.

Ms Zappone's office declined to comment ahead of her Cabinet briefing, but it is understood she will tell colleagues decisions need to be taken quickly.

She wants to set up an inter-departmental group to focus on sourcing technical expertise from within the State and abroad.
...

Further details: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-to-advise-on-exhumation-of-tuam-babies-site-35719636.html

Dr Strange

Dr Strange wrote: »

Some new developments today:



Full details: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/katherine-zappone-seeks-excavation-of-entire-tuam-home-site-450203.html

Also:



Further details: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-to-advise-on-exhumation-of-tuam-babies-site-35719636.html

I thought there was a housing estate built over part of the grounds?

If so, how can they carry out a full excavation?

Dr Strange

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought there was a housing estate built over part of the grounds?

If so, how can they carry out a full excavation?

Not sure. That's for them to consider.

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought there was a housing estate built over part of the grounds?
.........

Who would want to stay living a house built on a mass grave of murdered toddlers ?

Seth Brundle

gctest50 wrote: »

Who would want to stay living a house built on a mass grave of murdered toddlers ?

How many were murdered?

pilly

gctest50 wrote:

Who would want to stay living a house built on a mass grave of murdered toddlers ?

I have to be honest, I have no sentimentality when it comes to graves.

I know people have strong views on it but I just don't see how if your house happened to be built on a grave and you never knew how your feelings would change when you found out about it?

SEPT 23 1989

Can we get some experts in ?

maybe the lads who dug up graves in Yugoslavia

I don't trust anyone complicit in this scandal to get to the truth